LEF lifepsan project.
David
find the anwser by following the link below. It looks like we might expect
some results published in a peer reviewed journal soon.
http://forum.lef.org/forum21/topic1001080.html#1001080
Paul Wakfer (was: Tom Matthews)
That's great news. Thanks alot!
--Paul Wakfer (was: Tom Matthews)
MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
Reality based tools for more life in quantity & quality
Michael
"David" <m...@me.com> wrote in message news:<DtHI9.41389$Ti2....@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>...
In the meantime, the lifespan curves have been posted on the website
of Biomarker Pharmaceuticals, a company controlled by Dr. Spindler and
Saul Kent:
http://www.biomarkerinc.com/html/press.htm#
Go to "Presentation: Anti-Aging Drug Discovery Development Summit,
Oct. 15,
2002 Presented by: Dr Xi Zhao-Wilson, Dr Stephen Splindler". Click,
and
a new URL-less window opens. Click on the links "Supplements and
Survival (Spindler, UCR)" and "Supplements and Survival
Weindruch (UWM)".
Note that, in accordance with multiple previous LS studies in
well-fed, non-genetic-fuckup, well-cared-for rodents, none of the
supplement regimens exerted any positive impact on LS relative to
controls. In fact, MOST of the supplement regimens APPEARED to lead to
poorer survivorship than the controls ... And there's those darned CR
rodents again ...
-Michael
--
http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=000F3D47-C6D2-1CEB-93F6809EC5880000
(Climate change is real). http://www.climatechangesolutions.com
(Real choices) http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_news.shtml
(Car choices) http://www.janeholtzkay.com/AsphaltNation (Another car
choice).
michaelprice
> ... And there's those darned CR rodents again ...
>
Which darned CR rodents would those be? Austad's wild-type CR
rodents showed decreased avg LS.
Cheers,
Michael C Price
----------------------------------------
http://mcp.longevity-report.com
http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm
Tim Tyler
: "Michael" <mik...@lycos.com> >
:> ... And there's those darned CR rodents again ...
: Which darned CR rodents would those be? Austad's wild-type CR
: rodents showed decreased avg LS.
The "Supplements and Survival Weindruch (UWM)" link cited shows
a graph indicating CR producing some increased average life extension.
Four combinations of supplements were tested - all cocktails of:
Co-Q-10, a-lipoic acid, Lycopene, Vit-E, Acetyl-L-Carnitine and NADH.
Not what I would have chosen to look at if I was /actually/ trying to
produce life extension using supplements :-(
However Biomarker Pharmaceuticals seems to be following the thesis that CR
- and CR mimetics - are what is of interest - and that other ideas are
just distractions.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ t...@tt1.org
Tim Tyler
: Note that, in accordance with multiple previous LS studies in
: well-fed, non-genetic-fuckup, well-cared-for rodents, none of the
: supplement regimens exerted any positive impact on LS relative to
: controls.
Try finding some studies of melatonin and lifespan that *don't*
show a significant degree of life extension.
There may be some out there somewhere - but performing the search
might change your mind about the ineffectiveness of supplementation.
michaelprice
>
> The "Supplements and Survival Weindruch (UWM)" link
> cited shows a graph indicating CR producing some increased
> average life extension.
>
> Four combinations of supplements were tested - all cocktails
> of:
>
> Co-Q-10, a-lipoic acid, Lycopene, Vit-E, Acetyl-L-Carnitine
> and NADH.
>
> Not what I would have chosen to look at if I was /actually/
> trying to produce life extension using supplements :-(
Me neither. And we don't know the amounts used. A graded
cocktail with minerals and the complete B-vitamin range needs
testing on wild-type rodents. Anyway, I'm glad they started
writing up the results.
Judging from the slides (and 2nd hand reports) they seem to be
concluding that the above limited regime may have slowed
cardiovascular/neuro aging, but not cancer. Which raises an
interesting possibility that the supplements slowed Gompertzian
or "true" aging (i.e. the exponential rise with time which
cardiovascular mortality tends to follow), but did not retard
cancer mortality (which rises approx' quintically with time,
and can regarded as distinct from Gompertzian aging.). If so
then we should consider our supplement regimes with this in
mind.
For cancer specifically:
low dose aspirin, garlic, ginkgo, selenium, inositol & niacin
in addition to the other B-vitamins and minerals
Tim
I checked PubMed on garlic, it seems to be both neuroprotective as
well as a cancer preventative. The life spans studies were done on
SAMP mice, which may not the best for a max-lifespan study as garlic
doesn't seem to be beneficial in SAM-R mice.
Antioxidant Health Effects of Aged Garlic Extract.
www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/131/3/10105
Aged garlic extract prolongs longevity and improves spatial memory
deficit in senescence accelerated mouse.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8850329&dopt=Abstract
Prolongation of life span and improved learning in the senescence
accelerated mouse produced by aged garlic extract.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7735200&dopt=Abstract
Prolongation of life span in hypertensive rats by dietary
interventions: effects of garlic and linseed oil.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9342429&dopt=Abstract
Beneficial effects of aged garlic extract on learning and memory
impairment in senescence accelerated mouse.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9088912&dopt=Abstract
Regards
Tim
Tim
The same may go for green tea extract,blueberry/bilberry
extract,BHT,BHA,and grape seed extract and quite likely PBN (a bit
preliminary)in protecting both neurons (could also be stimulating
neurogenesis)and preventing cancer (and possibly sarcopenia) through
cell specific activation (the beneficial effects seem to vary in
mitotic and post-mitotic cells) of redox signalling, apparently mainly
through the MAPK's.
Regards
Tim
Michael
Tim Tyler <t...@tt1.org> wrote in message news:<H6uHr...@bath.ac.uk>...
> Michael <mik...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> : Note that, in accordance with multiple previous LS studies in
> : well-fed, non-genetic-fuckup, well-cared-for rodents, none of the
> : supplement regimens exerted any positive impact on LS relative to
> : controls.
>
> Try finding some studies of melatonin and lifespan that *don't*
> show a significant degree of life extension.
Well, first, according to (1), "In fact, a shortening of the life span
was observed in melatonin-producing mouse strain C3H/He (9)(33)." And
in (2), " Mice were fed modified AIN76 diet or modified AIN76
supplemented with vitamin E, glutathione (GSH), vitamin E and GSH,
*melatonin* *OR* strawberry extract starting at 18 months of age. ...
Lesion burden and incidence of specific lesions observed amongst the
various groups in this study did not differ. There were no differences
observed for longevity of any of the study groups. The longevity
observed in this study was similar to that previously reported for
male C57BL/6 mice." But that wasn't my point, above.
I was careful to put on the proviso that I was referrring to "studies
in well-fed, non-genetic-fuckup, well-cared-for rodents." There are
several studies (such as those by Pierpaoli ((3), etc) showing that
melatonin-supplemented rodents outlive other animals in a short-lived
cohort, but AFAIK, none in which the melatonin-supplemented animals
lived longer -- on average or at maximum -- than well-fed,
non-genetic-fuckup, well-cared-for rodents, who will live, on average,
> 900 days and, at maximum, ~1200 days. This isn't life extension.
More on melatonin:
-Michael
1. Anisimov VN, Zavarzina NY, Zabezhinski MA, Popovich IG, Zimina OA,
Shtylick AV, Arutjunyan AV, Oparina TI, Prokopenko VM, Mikhalski AI,
Yashin AI.
Melatonin increases both life span and tumor incidence in female CBA
mice.
J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 2001 Jul;56(7):B311-23.
PMID: 11445596
http://biomed.gerontologyjournals.org/cgi/content/full/56/7/B311
2. Lipman RD, Bronson RT, Wu D, Smith DE, Prior R, Cao G, Han SN,
Martin KR, Meydani SN, Meydani M.
Disease incidence and longevity are unaltered by dietary antioxidant
supplementation initiated during middle age in C57BL/6 mice.
Mech Ageing Dev. 1998 Jul 15;103(3):269-84.
PMID: 9723903
3. Pierpaoli W, Regelson W.
Pineal control of aging: effect of melatonin and pineal grafting on
aging mice.
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1994 Jan 18;91(2):787-91.
PMID: 8290600
Chris Allen
> I checked PubMed on garlic, it seems to be both neuroprotective as
> well as a cancer preventative.
> Antioxidant Health Effects of Aged Garlic Extract.
> deficit in senescence accelerated mouse.
Aged garlic is not the same thing as garlic. Garlic contains allicin
(thio-2-propene-1-sulfinic acid S-allyl ester), cysteine, fructose,
and alliin (+S-allyl-L-cysteine sulfoxide). Aged garlic extract
contains S-allylcysteine and S-allylmercaptocysteine, and fructosyl
arginine:
-
Maillard browning products in garlic, such as fructosyl arginine
(Fru-Arg) showed potent antioxidant activity and appear to be absorbed
from the gut. Fru-Arg is formed during the aging of garlic, none was
found in raw or boiled garlic. This may partly explain the
antioxidative effects of Aged Garlic Extract not shown by other forms
of garlic.
-
http://www.has-china.com/excerpts.htm
-
The reaction between allicin and L-cysteine was studied by 1H and
13C-NMR, and a S-thiolation product, S-allylmercaptocysteine, was
identified.
-
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9528659&dopt=Abstract
-
Long-term extraction of garlic (up to 20 mo) ages the extract,
creating antioxidant properties by modifying unstable molecules with
antioxidant activity, such as allicin, and increasing stable and
highly bioavailable water-soluble organosulfur compounds, such as
S-allylcysteine and S-allylmercaptocysteine.
-
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11238807&dopt=Abstract
Also, at least some of the aged garlic citations on medline are of
non-peer-reviewed conference papers.
-Chris
Tim
The on the Journal of Nutrition link above click on Archives, then
March 2001, the whole issue is examined in depth. AGE does appear to
be the garlic of choice.
Regards
Tim
Paul Wakfer (was: Tom Matthews)
Tim, it is not a matter of one or the other!
Fresh garlic and aged garlic should be considered two completely
different substances. Each has benefits that the other does not have.
Although on net, I would agree with you that aged is best.
Tim Tyler
: Tim Tyler <t...@tt1.org> wrote in message news:<H6uHr...@bath.ac.uk>...
:> Michael <mik...@lycos.com> wrote:
:> : Note that, in accordance with multiple previous LS studies in
:> : well-fed, non-genetic-fuckup, well-cared-for rodents, none of the
:> : supplement regimens exerted any positive impact on LS relative to
:> : controls.
:>
:> Try finding some studies of melatonin and lifespan that *don't*
:> show a significant degree of life extension.
: Well, first, according to (1), "In fact, a shortening of the life span
: was observed in melatonin-producing mouse strain C3H/He (9)(33)."
It seems you have the body of that while I do not.
The abstract reports life extension - not life shortening.
Other studies of C3H/He have reported life extension under Melatonin
supplementattion - provided supplementattion is not started at too
young an age.
``Night melatonin given to 18 month old C3H/He mice extended their
survival, but when given to 12 month old C3H/He mice it proved to be
toxic and survival was reduced slightly from 30 months to 28 months.''
- http://keithlynch.net/cryonet/48/69.html
The young mice had an increased rate of ovarian cancers - and in the
young mice they got to the point of killing the mice.
Presumably reproductive-tract cancers in the older mice were also
accelerated - but there melatonin's life extension effects dominated.
The author goes on to express some scepticism about the negative result
with the young mice:
``With smaller 1 mg capsules of melatonin now being available I feel it
is appropriate to reduce the lower age limit for melatonin
supplementation to 30 years, particularly for shift workers. The
negative result with 12 month C3H/He mice I now regard as being somewhat
suspect, particularly since it was beneficial to 18 month old C3H/He
mice. Melatonin was given in the drinking water and if this was
contaminated with copper or iron ions melatonin will degrade and the
experiment would be compromised.''
: I was careful to put on the proviso that I was referrring to "studies
: in well-fed, non-genetic-fuckup, well-cared-for rodents." There are
: several studies (such as those by Pierpaoli ((3), etc) showing that
: melatonin-supplemented rodents outlive other animals in a short-lived
: cohort, but AFAIK, none in which the melatonin-supplemented animals
: lived longer -- on average or at maximum -- than well-fed,
: non-genetic-fuckup, well-cared-for rodents, who will live, on average,
: 900 days and, at maximum, ~1200 days [...].
Scepticism about extrapolating results from short-lived strains seems
healthy. However I don't think positive life extension reports have
been confined to genetically defective rodents.
...for example, deals with a long-lived mouse strain - and still reports
life extension.
: More on melatonin:
If I were challenged to increase the lifespan of mammals
with a drug or nutrient - and was not allowed CR or CR mimetics -
melatonin would still be near the top of the list.
I'm generally suprised at the extent of your scepticism about
possible effects of supplementation on increasing lifespan.
As far as I know, melatonin is one of the approaches to life extension
for mammals for which we have the best evidence - after CR.
I note that some people have claimed this role for Metformin, though:
http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/metformin.htm
Even if scepticism about the efficacy of supplementation has been
defensible in the past, I think we can be pretty sure that things
are not going to stay that way.
In the future, it really will be clearly demonstrated that lifespan in
mammals can be increased significantly by popping pills.