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french for "handjob"

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Marc

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Jan 9, 2008, 5:17:31 PM1/9/08
to
Does anyone here happen to know the French slang term for "handjob"?

Thanks,
Marc

mb

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Jan 9, 2008, 5:26:25 PM1/9/08
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Branlette (general term, applies also to self-operation)
Manivelle annamite
Rabotage artisanal
Arrache-copeau menuisière
Service minimum
Style sainte-Nitouche

Plus hundreds of other terms, generally either hapaxes or of limited
circulation (idiolects, circle slang, etc.) but almost always
immediately intelligible.

Paul J Kriha

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Jan 10, 2008, 2:25:25 AM1/10/08
to
"mb" <azyt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37a95848-a44d-4fec...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>On Jan 9, 2:17 pm, Marc <marc.ad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Does anyone here happen to know the French slang term for "handjob"?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marc
>
>Branlette (general term, applies also to self-operation)

Doesn't French have at least one based on the name of Onan, son of Judah?

Maurice Krait

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Jan 10, 2008, 3:19:53 AM1/10/08
to
Paul J Kriha a écrit :

>
> Doesn't French have at least one based on the name of Onan, son of Judah?
>
>

Yes, there is one , onanisme = masturbation, but it's not slang,and to
me, it's not exactly the name of the operation, but more the name of the
habit.

Message has been deleted

Paul J Kriha

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Jan 10, 2008, 8:09:55 AM1/10/08
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"Maurice Krait" <mkr...@club-internet.fr> wrote in message
news:4785d532$0$21146$7a62...@news.club-internet.fr...
> PJK a écrit :

Is it never verbed?
pjk

mb

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Jan 10, 2008, 9:08:47 AM1/10/08
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On Jan 10, 4:56 am, Hector Montana <hec...@example.com>

> What's a branlette espagnole?

A tit sandwich

richard01

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Jan 10, 2008, 9:11:41 AM1/10/08
to
On 10 Jan, 20:56, Hector Montana <hec...@example.com> wrote:
> > >Branlette (general term, applies also to self-operation)
>
> > Doesn't French have at least one based on the name of Onan, son of Judah?
>
> What's a branlette espagnole?

This kind of word is fascinating; they seem to be re-invented as slang
in each generation, after being damned and forbidden by respectable
elders. The words for blowjob in this part of the Philippines are,
currently: saki-saki, lollipop (pr lô-li-pap) and umm-umm.

Can't imagine what a branlette espagnole is, but it's probably
verbalising a perversion of some kind - see 'manivelle
annamite' (Vietnamese handling?) in an earlier message - ie 'lesser
people' do things we (respectable elders) have forgotten we ever did.

regards

Richard

mb

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Jan 10, 2008, 9:15:25 AM1/10/08
to

I don't think it always exclusively applies to the habit only: You'll
see phrases like: "en flagrant délit d'onanisme" and the like.

mb

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Jan 10, 2008, 9:51:37 AM1/10/08
to

richard01 wrote:
...


> This kind of word is fascinating; they seem to be re-invented as slang
> in each generation, after being damned and forbidden by respectable
> elders.

???
In some other cultures perhaps. I can't see anything damned or
forbidden about it, at least in European French-speaking populations
(except their being slang, of course, but used by all including the
respectable elders).

richard01

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Jan 10, 2008, 10:20:00 AM1/10/08
to

Absolutely - English (and American more so) are very much (too much)
prim and proper.
I still remember an old French lady telling me a joke that included an
English pun:

It was early morning
Not a leaf stirred
Not an insect stirred
Not a bird stirred
Not a human's turd

regards

Richard

Message has been deleted

Trond Engen

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Jan 10, 2008, 3:10:34 PM1/10/08
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mb skreiv:

> On Jan 10, 4:56 am, Hector Montana <hec...@example.com>
>
>> What's a branlette espagnole?
>
> A tit sandwich

In Norwegian the phrase '(ta) en spansk en' "(take, here: ~do) a Spanish
one", originally seaman's slang for that speciality, has become an
everyday idiom for a quick and dirty pretend-solution.

Boss: "Do you have the details I told the client you'd bring today?"
Employee: "I haven't even started. I'll _do a Spanish one_ and blame the
supplier for not giving feesdback."
Boss: "Right, we'll just have to play by ear in the meeting."

--
Trond Engen
- offering a glimpse into his professional life

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 10, 2008, 4:21:52 PM1/10/08
to
On Jan 10, 3:10 pm, Trond Engen <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote:
> mb skreiv:
>
> > On Jan 10, 4:56 am, Hector Montana <hec...@example.com>
>
> >> What's a branlette espagnole?
>
> > A tit sandwich
>
> In Norwegian the phrase '(ta) en spansk en' "(take, here: ~do) a Spanish
> one", originally seaman's slang for that speciality, has become an
> everyday idiom for a quick and dirty pretend-solution.
>
> Boss: "Do you have the details I told the client you'd bring today?"
> Employee: "I haven't even started. I'll _do a Spanish one_ and blame the
> supplier for not giving feesdback."
> Boss: "Right, we'll just have to play by ear in the meeting."

Kinda like "close enough for government work."

It's "play it by ear" -- do you have it intransitive in Norse?

yangg

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Jan 10, 2008, 4:52:23 PM1/10/08
to
> > > Doesn't French have at least one based on the name of Onan, son of Judah?
>
> >   Yes, there is one , onanisme = masturbation, but it's not slang,and to
> > me, it's not exactly the name of the operation, but more the name of the
> > habit.
>
> Is it never verbed?
> pjk
============
As far as I know,
the noun "branlette" applies to "manual excitation of male organs"
The noun has a fairly sympathic connotation
and may describe a useless occupational work,
such as "branlette intellectuelle" = useless intellectual activity
in that case it is synonymous with "enculer les mouches" = to *ssf*ck
flies"
the verb "branler" (transitive) applies to the process whereby the
above-described excitation is achieved.
It used to mean "to shake, to rock" but it is now impossible to use
because of modern meaning,
This verb is highly vulgar and offensive,
Especially : "on s'en branle" = "we don't care a f**k"
the noun "onanisme" sounds definitely like a catholic description and
condemnation.
I think most French people will fail to understand what "onanisme"
means.
I have NEVER heard this word pronounced a single time,

What makes you so interested in this part of French vocabulary ?

Arnaud

Patrick

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Jan 10, 2008, 5:40:28 PM1/10/08
to

"Alphonse Jarry" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:d89929c5f06f7081...@remailer.metacolo.com...

>
>> > > Doesn't French have at least one based on the name of Onan, son of
>> > > Judah?
>> > >
>> > Yes, there is one , onanisme = masturbation, but it's not slang,and
>> > to
>> > me, it's not exactly the name of the operation, but more the name of
>> > the
>> > habit.
>>
>> Is it never verbed?
>
> "se masturber" ou "s'onaniser"


La veuve poignet ?


--
Funkhunter

------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't mind a reasonable amount of trouble."
Sam Spade, The Maltese Falcon
------------------------------------------------------------------


mb

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Jan 10, 2008, 5:52:13 PM1/10/08
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On Jan 10, 1:52 pm, yangg <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
...

> the noun "onanisme" sounds definitely like a catholic description and
> condemnation.
> I think most French people will fail to understand what "onanisme"
> means.
> I have NEVER heard this word pronounced a single time,

Lucky. Means you weren't ever forced to go confess in the old days.

politicstahl

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Jan 10, 2008, 7:44:41 PM1/10/08
to

What's a tit sandwich?

Trond Engen

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Jan 10, 2008, 9:28:48 PM1/10/08
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Peter T. Daniels skreiv:

> On Jan 10, 3:10 pm, Trond Engen <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote:
>
>> mb skreiv:
>>
>>> On Jan 10, 4:56 am, Hector Montana <hec...@example.com>
>>>
>>>> What's a branlette espagnole?
>>>
>>> A tit sandwich
>>
>> In Norwegian the phrase '(ta) en spansk en' "(take, here: ~do) a
>> Spanish one", originally seaman's slang for that speciality, has
>> become an everyday idiom for a quick and dirty pretend-solution.

Maybe better: "pull a Spanish one".

>> Boss: "Do you have the details I told the client you'd bring today?"
>> Employee: "I haven't even started. I'll _do a Spanish one_ and blame
>> the supplier for not giving feesdback."
>> Boss: "Right, we'll just have to play by ear in the meeting."
>
> Kinda like "close enough for government work."

Nah. I thought that was unambiguous but it isn't. Here are some Spanish
ones:
- A thin white lie that will be revealed but just might buy you some
time to solve the crisis first (like the above).
- Adding oil to the salat to hide that you sneezed.
- Double-parking with the engine on in front of a hospital's entrance to
pick up a suit at the dry-cleaner's across the street.
- Subsitution of regular primer for fire paint in the spots no-one is
going to check when you run out of the good stuff.

> It's "play it by ear" -- do you have it intransitive in Norse?

Well. I thought in broken English, not in Norwegian. I think it felt
like "play by ear" would cover the whole situation, whatever they'll
meet, while "play it by ear" would refer to some particular subject at hand.

There are several expressions that might translate 'play it by the ear'.
'Spille på gehør' is a word by word correspondent, except that it's
usually intransitive, but not as frequent as a metaphor as its English
counterpart. I might have had it in mind while writing the above,
though. 'Ta det på gefylen' is another option. That's the usual metaphor
(and transitive), so usual that it hardly tells anything of the actual
abilities to play anything by the ear. Both 'gehør' and 'gefyl' are
music expressions and German loans. Other options are 'føle seg fram'
"feel one's way", 'bruke nesa' "use one's nose", and many more

--
Trond Engen
- frequent player

mb

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Jan 11, 2008, 12:51:35 AM1/11/08
to

Contrary to the usual sandwich naming conventions, the tits are not
the meat in this one. They metaphorically replace the slices of bread
and are used to the purpose of performing the branlette as per the
operation's name.

Joachim Pense

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Jan 11, 2008, 2:32:43 AM1/11/08
to
Am Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:25:25 +1300 schrieb Paul J Kriha:

> "mb" <azyt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:37a95848-a44d-4fec...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>On Jan 9, 2:17 pm, Marc <marc.ad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Does anyone here happen to know the French slang term for "handjob"?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Marc
>>
>>Branlette (general term, applies also to self-operation)
>
> Doesn't French have at least one based on the name of Onan, son of Judah?
>

In the Bible, he was doing a coitus interruptus, and in general
folklore it was masturbation. Neither is what i think is usually
called a handjob.

Joachim

Stewart Paterson

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Jan 11, 2008, 2:43:05 AM1/11/08
to
se branler

"Alphonse Jarry" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:d89929c5f06f7081...@remailer.metacolo.com...
>
>> > > Doesn't French have at least one based on the name of Onan, son of
>> > > Judah?
>> > >
>> > Yes, there is one , onanisme = masturbation, but it's not slang,and
>> > to
>> > me, it's not exactly the name of the operation, but more the name of
>> > the
>> > habit.
>>
>> Is it never verbed?
>

Alphonse Jarry

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Jan 11, 2008, 7:28:02 AM1/11/08
to
> >
> > >> What's a branlette espagnole?
> >
> > > A tit sandwich
> >
> > In Norwegian the phrase '(ta) en spansk en' "(take, here: ~do) a Spanish
> > one", originally seaman's slang for that speciality, has become an
> > everyday idiom for a quick and dirty pretend-solution.
> >
> > Boss: "Do you have the details I told the client you'd bring today?"
> > Employee: "I haven't even started. I'll _do a Spanish one_ and blame the
> > supplier for not giving feesdback."
> > Boss: "Right, we'll just have to play by ear in the meeting."
>
> Kinda like "close enough for government work."

What does that mean when you say it to a hooker?

mb

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Jan 11, 2008, 8:46:42 AM1/11/08
to
On Jan 11, 4:28 am, Alphonse Jarry
...
> > > > A tit sandwich
...

> > Kinda like "close enough for government work."
>
> What does that mean when you say it to a hooker?

That it's all you can afford on a government budget.

PS. T'as le bonjour d'Alfred.

mb

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Jan 11, 2008, 9:31:37 AM1/11/08
to
On Jan 10, 11:32 pm, Joachim Pense <s...@pense-mainz.eu>
...

> > Doesn't French have at least one based on the name of Onan, son of Judah?
>
> In the Bible, he was doing a coitus interruptus...

Was he? My reading was that of some new agricultural practice.

Bob Zukenov

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Jan 11, 2008, 2:05:22 PM1/11/08
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mb <azyt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Plowing" is done on a woman.

benlizross

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Jan 11, 2008, 3:27:28 PM1/11/08
to

And IIRC he was actually blasted by the Deity, not for either of these
sexual acts per se, but for refusing to impregnate his brother's widow,
as the law required.

Ross Clark

Joe Fineman

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Jan 11, 2008, 9:06:19 PM1/11/08
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yangg <fournet...@wanadoo.fr> writes:

> The noun has a fairly sympathic connotation and may describe a
> useless occupational work, such as "branlette intellectuelle" =
> useless intellectual activity

So also in English -- "intellectual masturbation".
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: Better pissed off than on. :||

Marc

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Jan 12, 2008, 10:46:41 AM1/12/08
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On Jan 10, 3:52 pm, yangg <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

> What makes you so interested in this part of French vocabulary ?

It's a long story, but I have to come up with a name for a kind of
whorehouse in Japan where you only get handjobs. I thought something
French might work.

Marc

Marc

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Jan 12, 2008, 10:51:09 AM1/12/08
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On Jan 11, 1:32 am, Joachim Pense <s...@pense-mainz.eu> wrote:

> In the Bible, he was doing a coitus interruptus, and in general
> folklore it was masturbation. Neither is what i think is usually
> called a handjob.

The conversation has veered off into "masturbation," but is there a
French equivalent of "handjob" as in "manual stimulation of male
genitalia by another person (not by the man himself)"?

Marc

mb

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Jan 12, 2008, 1:54:22 PM1/12/08
to

It won't because "branlette" will only evoke the self-serve job (not
what you go in this kind of establishments for), while the other terms
are all ad hoc.

On the other hand, judging by the vast ponentophilic bullshit that one
sees in Japanese brand and model names and its unquestioned acceptance
in the barbarian West, any stupid, vaguely pseudo-French-sounding word
would be highly plausible.

Joachim Pense

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Jan 13, 2008, 2:25:33 AM1/13/08
to
Am Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:54:22 -0800 (PST) schrieb mb:

> On Jan 12, 7:46 am, Marc <marc.ad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 10, 3:52 pm, yangg <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>>
>>> What makes you so interested in this part of French vocabulary ?
>>
>> It's a long story, but I have to come up with a name for a kind of
>> whorehouse in Japan where you only get handjobs. I thought something
>> French might work.

Depending on your audience, maybe "Tekoki parlor" could be understood?
It's of course not French...

Joachim

Paul J Kriha

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Jan 13, 2008, 2:54:08 AM1/13/08
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"mb" <azyt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b8dc04f0-41a6-4c83...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

That's right. You might just as well make something up yourself,
it won't be any worse than thousands of other Japanese pseudo
frenchie/anglo company names.

Say, how about "Plaisir Manufacturés"? :-)

pjk

Paul J Kriha

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Jan 13, 2008, 4:58:15 AM1/13/08
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"Joachim Pense" <sn...@pense-mainz.eu> wrote in message
news:14kikhlaiuwa8.l...@40tude.net...

I hope you didn't mean a Maori name "TeKoki". :-)
It was a name of one of important Maori chiefs.
pjk

Joachim Pense

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Jan 13, 2008, 5:25:26 AM1/13/08
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Am Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:58:15 +1300 schrieb Paul J Kriha:


>
> I hope you didn't mean a Maori name "TeKoki". :-)
> It was a name of one of important Maori chiefs.

Good for him he wasn't Japanese.

Joachim

yangg

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Jan 13, 2008, 8:29:26 AM1/13/08
to
> > What makes you so interested in this part of French vocabulary ?
>
> It's a long story, but I have to come up with a name for a kind of
> whorehouse in Japan where you only get handjobs. I thought something
> French might work.
> Marc
========
If you are not aware of that :
- onna : (japanese) woman, female
vaguely sounds like onan-ism

As far as I know,

English is highly differentiated
but French has only generic words for what you are interested in
that do not specify who does what to who using what.
Maybe there exists a prostitute slang more differentiated
but it's not standard French.
===========

Edward Hennessey

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Jan 13, 2008, 6:08:06 PM1/13/08
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"Marc" <marc....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d4bb5720-3f32-4e0e...@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

> Does anyone here happen to know the French slang term for "handjob"?
>
> Thanks,
> Marc

M:

The artisans at such establishments are called "hand whores". So if you can
accommodate
some punchy English, "hand whorehouses" would hit.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


mb

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Jan 13, 2008, 8:40:12 PM1/13/08
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On Jan 12, 11:54 pm, "Paul J Kriha"

...


> Say, how about "Plaisir Manufacturés"?  :-)

Very good, Kriha. Almost there.
One more step, and let's readapt the name of a ladies' handicraft
journal that was very famous back then:
"Mains de fées"
Also existed as "Mani di fata".

Trond Engen

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Jan 14, 2008, 2:31:28 AM1/14/08
to
mb skreiv:

> On Jan 12, 11:54 pm, "Paul J Kriha"
>

>> Say, how about "Plaisir Manufacturés"? :-)
>
> Very good, Kriha. Almost there.
> One more step, and let's readapt the name of a ladies' handicraft
> journal that was very famous back then:
> "Mains de fées"
> Also existed as "Mani di fata".

"Maītresse Lamain"?

--
Trond Engen
- vais se maītre en travail

António Marques

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Jan 14, 2008, 8:01:50 AM1/14/08
to

So that his deceased brother would have an heir who'd care for the
mother (if the birth came about within nine months of Onan's brother
passing, there would be reasonable doubt of whose the child was, and by
default the deceased brother would be considered the father). Whereas
with no heir, Onan would inherit everything. His motivation was really a
lot more mundane than might be thought!

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

richard01

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Jan 16, 2008, 4:19:51 AM1/16/08
to
On 14 Jan, 21:01, António Marques <m...@sapo.pt> wrote:
> benlizross wrote:
> > Joachim Pense wrote:
> >> Am Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:25:25 +1300 schrieb Paul J Kriha:
>
> >>> "mb" <azyth...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I once visited the cave, overlooking the Dead Sea, where Lot was
supposed to have holed up with his daughters after the destruction of
Sodom and Gomorrah. One of his daughters is supposed to have got him
drunk, then mated with him , and produced two sons, Moab and Ammon -
two ancient nations of what is now Jordan. Mind you, Lot had already
offered his two daughters to the Sodomites, (Gen (19:8)) but they were
not at all interested. Maybe they (the daughters) were very ugly
indeed, and their father was the last hope - his wife had already been
turned into a pillar of salt by being sentimental, and looking back or
maybe they (the Sodomites, really were.).

This is interesting enough (the story was supposed to have actually
happened post 2000BC, because Lot was Abraham's nephew). But what was
more interesting to me was that the archaeologists digging the site
had dug down to around a 3000BC level, where they were actually
digging a grave as I watched.

I was genuinely shocked that Lot had not only committed incest, but
done it on top of a grave.

See: http://www.jtb.com.jo/brochures/guide_deadsea.html
and: http://www.jtb.com.jo/brochures/images/g_lotscave2.jpg
"A beautiful Byzantine monastery, the complex by the cave included a
church with mosaic floor and an inscription which mentions the name of
Lot, with living quarters and burial chambers. The place has been
inhabited long before, as artefacts from 3,000 BC are proving"

regards

Richard

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 16, 2008, 8:24:41 AM1/16/08
to
On Jan 16, 4:19 am, richard01 <richardparke...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 14 Jan, 21:01, António Marques <m...@sapo.pt> wrote:
> > benlizross wrote:
> > > Joachim Pense wrote:
> > >> Am Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:25:25 +1300 schrieb Paul J Kriha:

> > >>> Doesn't French have at least one based on the name of Onan, son of Judah?
>
> > >> In the Bible, he was doing a coitus interruptus, and in general
> > >> folklore it was masturbation. Neither is what i think is usually
> > >> called a handjob.
>
> > >> Joachim
>
> > > And IIRC he was actually blasted by the Deity, not for either of these
> > > sexual acts per se, but for refusing to impregnate his brother's widow,
> > > as the law required.
>
> > So that his deceased brother would have an heir who'd care for the
> > mother (if the birth came about within nine months of Onan's brother
> > passing, there would be reasonable doubt of whose the child was, and by
> > default the deceased brother would be considered the father). Whereas
> > with no heir, Onan would inherit everything. His motivation was really a
> > lot more mundane than might be thought!

> I once visited the cave, overlooking the Dead Sea, where Lot was


> supposed to have holed up with his daughters after the destruction of
> Sodom and Gomorrah. One of his daughters is supposed to have got him
> drunk, then mated with him , and produced two sons,  Moab and Ammon -
> two ancient nations of what is now Jordan. Mind you, Lot had already
> offered his two daughters to the Sodomites, (Gen (19:8)) but they were
> not at all interested. Maybe they (the daughters) were very ugly
> indeed, and their father was the last hope - his wife had already been
> turned into a pillar of salt by being sentimental, and looking back or
> maybe they (the Sodomites, really were.).
>
> This is interesting enough (the story was supposed to have actually
> happened post 2000BC, because Lot was Abraham's nephew). But what was
> more interesting to me was that the archaeologists digging the site
> had dug down to around a 3000BC level, where they were actually
> digging a grave as I watched.
>
> I was genuinely shocked that Lot had not only committed incest, but
> done it on top of  a grave.

(a) If there actually was a real person "Lot" who actually did what
the story says, at that particular spot, how would he have known there
was a burial there a millennium and more earlier?

(b) archeologists don't generally put absolute dates on _anything_
barring dated inscriptional evidence. Those levels at that site might
have been called "EB" (Early Bronze) or even earlier.

Enrico Ramstein

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Jan 16, 2008, 1:53:02 PM1/16/08
to
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >
> > I was genuinely shocked that Lot had not only committed incest, but
> > done it on top of  a grave.
>
> (a) If there actually was a real person "Lot" who actually did what
> the story says, at that particular spot, how would he have known there
> was a burial there a millennium and more earlier?

"Here lies X." carved on a stone.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 16, 2008, 3:12:26 PM1/16/08
to
On Jan 16, 1:53 pm, Enrico Ramstein <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

Oh, really? Who was writing inscriptions (of any sort) in 3000 BCE?

Paul J Kriha

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Jan 17, 2008, 2:05:27 AM1/17/08
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"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:eaf1e612-6a9c-401e...@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

Perhaps "Here lies X" in late pictographic Magdalenian??

pjk


ah

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Jan 17, 2008, 2:48:40 AM1/17/08
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Perhaps a mere rock.
--
ah

Paul J Kriha

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Jan 17, 2008, 8:11:34 AM1/17/08
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"ah" <splif...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:478f085a$0$35876$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...

I see, you mean a genuine idiomatic Swiss idiolect of late Magdalenian.

pjk

ah

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Jan 17, 2008, 2:02:25 PM1/17/08
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No.

A rock.
--
ah

richard01

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Jan 18, 2008, 12:17:39 AM1/18/08
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It does seem that local myths of founding fathers, etc, have some
basis in reality, even if someone (much later) hasn't written them
down.

There's a nice story (forget where I found it) of a Nigerian tribe who
relied on remembered genealogies to sort out tribal property disputes
in the present. So the early colonial authorities (Brits) wrote them
down, as the basis of a legal system. But that ran into problems.

The major one was that to keep the genealogies to a reasonable,
rememberable size, you had to keep the 'mythical' founder, but just
elide a few generations between him and now. Because the bloody Brits
wrote the old genealogies down, you couldn't agreeably do that any
more, so it caused far more property disputes than the traditional,
mutually agreed, system had caused.

I have absolutely no doubt that the written-down Biblical genealogies
follow the same pattern, and that's why you get Methuselah living to
an impossible age.

I had a good friend in Jordan, named Samir Khaldaneh, a Palestinian.
He explained to me that his surname came from the same source as
Abraham's; Ur of the Chaldees. (He was probably quite wrong - maybe it
came from the Chaldean branch of Christianity).

But meanwhile. it's nice to think that dear old drunken Lot created
two new nations by being seduced by his daughters. It did, after all,
enable the Hebrews to slur them as being founded by a couple of sluts
from a drunken father, so very inferior, at least, in inherited moral
character. The Moabites and Edomites have left no written-down fables,
composed perhaps a millenium or two later, so we'll never know their
side of the picture.

> (b) archeologists don't generally put absolute dates on _anything_
> barring dated inscriptional evidence. Those levels at that site might
> have been called "EB" (Early Bronze) or even earlier.

Of course they don't - they can't put exact dates on anything unless
it's written down, but they have enough methods to give most findings
a 'ball-park' date span. The problems occur with dodgy carbon-dating,
or assuming that stylistic or technical factors define a specific date
range.

regards

Richard


>
>
> > See:http://www.jtb.com.jo/brochures/guide_deadsea.html
> > and:http://www.jtb.com.jo/brochures/images/g_lotscave2.jpg
> > "A beautiful Byzantine monastery, the complex by the cave included a
> > church with mosaic floor and an inscription which mentions the name of
> > Lot, with living quarters and burial chambers. The place has been

> > inhabited long before, as artefacts from 3,000 BC are proving"- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

richard01

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Jan 18, 2008, 12:29:51 AM1/18/08
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On 17 Jan, 02:53, Enrico Ramstein <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

I once bought, from a New Zealander, a slab of stone that he said,
proved that the traditional Mt Sinai wasn't in the Egyptian Sinai area
at all, but very near Jebel Haroun (now in Jordan, by Petra, where
Aaron, Moses' brother, is supposed to have been buried).

It must be absolutely genuine, because the stone fragment has "Thou
shalt no..." carved on it, perfectly reflecting the King James Bible
version of the story.;-)

regards

Richard

Paul J Kriha

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Jan 18, 2008, 12:58:30 AM1/18/08
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"ah" <splif...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:478fa645$0$40778$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...

How do you tell the difference?
pjk

Enrico Ramstein

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Jan 18, 2008, 6:35:05 AM1/18/08
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Peter T. Daniels wrote:

It was a joke.
(Maybe not a good one.)


ah

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Jan 18, 2008, 10:42:51 PM1/18/08
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The rock just sits there looking like a rock.

Which reminds me:

What's the difference between a Jewish Princess and a toilet?
--
ah

Paul J Kriha

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Jan 19, 2008, 1:04:13 AM1/19/08
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"ah" <splif...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:479171c8$0$35900$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...

:-)))
Well, that's exactly my point. How different from that does
look a rock with a 3000BC inscription in Magdalenian?

pjk

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 19, 2008, 8:37:57 AM1/19/08
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On Jan 19, 1:04 am, "Paul J Kriha" <paul.nospam.kr...@paradise.net.nz>
wrote:
> "ah" <splifing...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> news:479171c8$0$35900$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Paul J Kriha wrote:
> > > "ah" <splifing...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> > >news:478fa645$0$40778$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
> > >> Paul J Kriha wrote:
> > >> > "ah" <splifing...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> > >> >news:478f085a$0$35876$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
> > >> >> Paul J Kriha wrote:
> > >> >> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in message

> > >> >> >news:eaf1e612-6a9c-401e...@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> > >> >> >>On Jan 16, 1:53 pm, Enrico Ramstein <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > >> >> >>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > >> >> >>> > > I was genuinely shocked that Lot had not only committed incest, but
> > >> >> >>> > > done it on top of a grave.
>
> > >> >> >>> > (a) If there actually was a real person "Lot" who actually did what
> > >> >> >>> > the story says, at that particular spot, how would he have known there
> > >> >> >>> > was a burial there a millennium and more earlier?
>
> > >> >> >>> "Here lies X." carved on a stone.
>
> > >> >> >>Oh, really? Who was writing inscriptions (of any sort) in 3000 BCE?
>
> > >> >> > Perhaps "Here lies X" in late pictographic Magdalenian??
>
> > >> >> Perhaps a mere rock.
>
> > >> > I see, you mean a genuine idiomatic Swiss idiolect of late Magdalenian.
>
> > >> No. A rock.
>
> > > How do you tell the difference?
>
> > The rock just sits there looking like a rock.
>
> :-)))
> Well, that's exactly my point. How different from that does
> look a rock with a 3000BC inscription in Magdalenian?

You left out a zero.

Joachim Pense

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Jan 19, 2008, 11:07:12 AM1/19/08
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Is there a Zero in Magdalenian writing?

Joachim

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 19, 2008, 12:07:51 PM1/19/08
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You'll have to ask Franz. There are, however, four zeroes in "30,000."

Adam Funk

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Jan 19, 2008, 2:38:08 PM1/19/08
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On 2008-01-19, Joachim Pense wrote:


>>>> >> > I see, you mean a genuine idiomatic Swiss idiolect of late Magdalenian.
>>>
>>>> >> No. A rock.
>>>
>>>> > How do you tell the difference?
>>>
>>>> The rock just sits there looking like a rock.
>>>
>>> :-)))
>>> Well, that's exactly my point. How different from that does
>>> look a rock with a 3000BC inscription in Magdalenian?
>>
>> You left out a zero.
>
> Is there a Zero in Magdalenian writing?

"In the beginning, everything was void, and J.H.W.H. Conway began to
create numbers."

--
"Hey Myron, I'm a lawyer!"

Joachim Pense

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Jan 19, 2008, 4:46:43 PM1/19/08
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Like, 495.766.656.000, 4.157.776.806.543.360.000, and
4.157.776.806.543.360.000?

Joachim

Paul J Kriha

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Jan 19, 2008, 8:55:10 PM1/19/08
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"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:14953b33-6cf9-452a...@v67g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

:-)) No, I don't think I did. Counting carefully the >'s I think it
was you who said earlier:


>> >>> >> >> >>Oh, really? Who was writing inscriptions (of any sort) in 3000 BCE?

That's why I called it "late Magdalenian". Don't tell me nothing
recognizable can be *that* late (27,000 years). As we all know
with Magdalenian, absolutely anything is possible,
in fact it's very likely.


>> Is there a Zero in Magdalenian writing?
>
>You'll have to ask Franz. There are, however, four zeroes in "30,000."

Of course Magdalenians had pictograms for Zero.
There are many blank rock faces in Lascaux. They convey
powerful messages like
"Today we again saw *zero* giraffes, and killed *zero* pigs", and
"Therefore, tonight we again have *zero* ribs for dinner", and
"And get *zero* cuddles as the reward from our women", and
"We are hungry, just as well the *zeroes* are so easy to carve".

pjk

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 19, 2008, 10:38:44 PM1/19/08
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On Jan 19, 8:55 pm, "Paul J Kriha" <paul.nospam.kr...@paradise.net.nz>
wrote:
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in messagenews:14953b33-6cf9-452a...@v67g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

That referred to "Enrico Ramstein"'s "a millennium or more before" the
putative time of Lot.

> That's why I called it "late Magdalenian". Don't tell me nothing
> recognizable can be *that* late (27,000 years). As we all know
> with Magdalenian, absolutely anything is possible,
> in fact it's very likely.
>
> >> Is there a Zero in Magdalenian writing?
>
> >You'll have to ask Franz. There are, however, four zeroes in "30,000."
>
> Of course Magdalenians had pictograms for Zero.
> There are many blank rock faces in Lascaux. They convey
> powerful messages like
> "Today we again saw *zero* giraffes, and killed *zero* pigs", and
> "Therefore, tonight we again have *zero* ribs for dinner", and
> "And get *zero* cuddles as the reward from our women", and
> "We are hungry, just as well the *zeroes* are so easy to carve".

Too many cartoons. Everyone knows the hunter-gatherer way of life was
easier than the agri-pastoralist way of life!

ah

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Feb 9, 2008, 3:19:54 PM2/9/08
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I think one's just dirtier.

>
>> Which reminds me:
>>
>> What's the difference between a Jewish Princess and a toilet?
>> --
>> ah
>


--
ah

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