Peggy Noonan Latin
Ron Hardin
Party elders should be coming out on the balcony in full array, in
full regalia, and telling the crowd, "Habemus nominatum": "We have a
nominee." And the crowd below should be cheering, "Viva Obamus! Viva
nominatum!"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121027865275678423.html?mod=todays_columnists
Shouldn't it be vivat? Shows what crowds know.
Craoi...@gmail.com
> WSJ Peggy Noonan
>
> Party elders should be coming out on the balcony in full array, in
> full regalia, and telling the crowd, "Habemus nominatum": "We have a
> nominee." And the crowd below should be cheering, "Viva Obamus! Viva
> nominatum!"
>
>
> Shouldn't it be vivat? Shows what crowds know.
It should be vivat nominatus, I think. But anyway, your scorn is
misplaced. How the hell could "crowds" know Latin, when it is not
taught as a compulsory subject in US schools? Should I dismiss you as
a representative of ignorant crowds, because you probably don't speak
Modern Icelandic?
Kevin Wald
> And the crowd below should be cheering, "Viva Obamus! Viva nominatum!"
>
>
> Shouldn't it be vivat? Shows what crowds know.
For that matter, wouldn't it be better to treat Obama as a first-declension
masculine, like Agrippa? So "Vivat Obama! Vivat nominatus!" And you could
have the palindromic futuristic equivalent of I Like Ike buttons
("Obamam amabo").
Kevin Wald wa...@math.uchicago.edu | "Hwaet saegest thu,
http://www.math.uchicago.edu/~wald | yrthlingc?" -- AElfric
Ron Hardin
> On 2008-05-09, Ron Hardin <rhhar...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > And the crowd below should be cheering, "Viva Obamus! Viva nominatum!"
>
>
> > Shouldn't it be vivat? Shows what crowds know.
>
> For that matter, wouldn't it be better to treat Obama as a first-declension
> masculine, like Agrippa? So "Vivat Obama! Vivat nominatus!" And you could
> have the palindromic futuristic equivalent of I Like Ike buttons
> ("Obamam amabo").
>
Oh! What a great button. That wins for Obama in November. No
conservative could resist it. Especially against no-first-amendment
McCain.
The classical languages voting bloc over at National Review would even
be behind it.
Peter T. Daniels
>
> > And the crowd below should be cheering, "Viva Obamus! Viva nominatum!"
>
>
> > Shouldn't it be vivat? Shows what crowds know.
>
> For that matter, wouldn't it be better to treat Obama as a first-declension
> masculine, like Agrippa? So "Vivat Obama! Vivat nominatus!" And you could
> have the palindromic futuristic equivalent of I Like Ike buttons
> ("Obamam amabo").
At some unspecified future moment? That doesn't really help him get
elected in November.
Ron Jarvis
news:77b4ddda-e371-4868...@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
"Viva" is an adjective meaning "alive, fresh, living," and the ending would
agree with a feminine or neuter noun--so probably the wrong word. The
second person singular present active imperative form would be "vive," and
would mean "Live!" "Vivat" is the third person singular present active
subjunctive form and would typically be translated as "may he live," "let
him live," etc.
Obama could be a regular first declension noun that is masculine although
feminine in form--like poeta, nauta, or Catilina (Catiline). No reason to
force it into the second declension.
--
Ron Jarvis
Houston, TX
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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Peter T. Daniels
wrote:
> "Ron Hardin" <rhhar...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
> news:77b4ddda-e371-4868...@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > WSJ Peggy Noonan
>
> > Party elders should be coming out on the balcony in full array, in
> > full regalia, and telling the crowd, "Habemus nominatum": "We have a
> > nominee." And the crowd below should be cheering, "Viva Obamus! Viva
> > nominatum!"
>
>
> > Shouldn't it be vivat? Shows what crowds know.
>
> "Viva" is an adjective meaning "alive, fresh, living," and the ending would
> agree with a feminine or neuter noun--so probably the wrong word. The
> second person singular present active imperative form would be "vive," and
> would mean "Live!" "Vivat" is the third person singular present active
> subjunctive form and would typically be translated as "may he live," "let
> him live," etc.
Does "Viva Las Vegas!" come through Spanish? (Cf. "Vive l'amour!")
Harlan Messinger
Will it jar you to learn that the taxonomic names given for the coyote
and the road runner in the old Warner Bros. cartoons are also fake?
Adam Funk
I'm going to sue over a high-school biology test.
--
Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends.
wugi
> For that matter, wouldn't it be better to treat Obama as a
first-declension
> masculine, like Agrippa? So "Vivat Obama! Vivat nominatus!" And you could
> have the palindromic futuristic equivalent of I Like Ike buttons
> ("Obamam amabo").
McCanem lavabo.
Hillariam gazebo.
Quousque, o Obama ac Hillaria, abutemini patientiam partiti vostri?
So far the Latinwise campaign ;-)
guido
http://home.scarlet.be/~pin12499
Padraic Brown
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On May 9, 9:32 am, "Ron Jarvis" <ronjarvis at consolidated dot net>
>wrote:
>> "Ron Hardin" <rhhar...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:77b4ddda-e371-4868...@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > WSJ Peggy Noonan
>>
>> > Party elders should be coming out on the balcony in full array, in
>> > full regalia, and telling the crowd, "Habemus nominatum": "We have a
>> > nominee." And the crowd below should be cheering, "Viva Obamus! Viva
>> > nominatum!"
>>
>> >http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121027865275678423.html?mod=todays_co...
>>
>> > Shouldn't it be vivat? Shows what crowds know.
>>
>> "Viva" is an adjective meaning "alive, fresh, living," and the ending would
>> agree with a feminine or neuter noun--so probably the wrong word. The
>> second person singular present active imperative form would be "vive," and
>> would mean "Live!" "Vivat" is the third person singular present active
>> subjunctive form and would typically be translated as "may he live," "let
>> him live," etc.
>
>Does "Viva Las Vegas!" come through Spanish? (Cf. "Vive l'amour!")
Or Italian.
Anyway, wouldn't the crowd be more likely to yammer on in the Vulgar
tongue, rather than the polished Classical of the quality? "Viva"
seems to fit the bill well enough. Especially with the case confusion
Obamus / nominatum. Certainly not something to be uttered by the likes
of Cicero!
Padraic
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Craoi...@gmail.com
> "Kevin Wald" :
>
> > For that matter, wouldn't it be better to treat Obama as a
> first-declension
> > masculine, like Agrippa? So "Vivat Obama! Vivat nominatus!" And you could
> > have the palindromic futuristic equivalent of I Like Ike buttons
> > ("Obamam amabo").
>
> McCanem lavabo.
> Hillariam gazebo.
>
> Quousque, o Obama ac Hillaria, abutemini patientiam partiti vostri?
VESTRI! "Noster" is vintage classical Latin all right, but "voster" is
a late analogy. The correct classical form is vester. (This is another
nice example of those traits of classical Latin which could not be
arrived at by reconstruction, if we only had the Romance languages and
no corpus of Latin.)
Besides, although my Latin is nothing to write home about, I was
taught long ago by the wise fathers at Radiophoniae Finnicae Generalis
Nuntii Latini, that a political party is "motus" in Latin.
And it is patientia, with long a. So, it is "quousque tandem
abutemini, o Obama ac Hillaria, patientia motus vestri?" Motus has a
genitive ending in long u + -s, if I remember correctly.
Joachim Pense
>>
>> Quousque, o Obama ac Hillaria, abutemini patientiam partiti vostri?
>
> VESTRI! "Noster" is vintage classical Latin all right, but "voster" is
> a late analogy. The correct classical form is vester. (This is another
> nice example of those traits of classical Latin which could not be
> arrived at by reconstruction, if we only had the Romance languages and
> no corpus of Latin.)
How did it happen? I don't see an obvious historical explanation for nos -
noster versus vos - vester. (Probably I can look it up in Sihler's book,
but maybe someone likes to tell me anyway).
Joachim
mb
...
> > Quousque, o Obama ac Hillaria, abutemini patientiam partiti vostri?
> taught long ago by the wise fathers at Radiophoniae Finnicae Generalis
> Nuntii Latini, that a political party is "motus" in Latin.
Motus would of course apply to a proper party, intended as a movement.
But this seems to be about the US Democratic "Party", where the
translator needs the proper word, factio. As for the horse races.
Joachim Pense
>
> How did it happen? I don't see an obvious historical explanation for nos -
> noster versus vos - vester. (Probably I can look it up in Sihler's book,
> but maybe someone likes to tell me anyway).
>
OK, it'S 46.1: Initial vo > ve except before labials, r+vowel, and "l
pinguis". A change that occurred about 150 BCE.
Other examplea are verto, verso, veto.
The reason that vos hasn't change to ves is that it is actually vōs (long
o).
Joachim
wugi
> On May 10, 12:03 am, "wugi" <b...@scarlet.be> wrote:
> > Quousque, o Obama ac Hillaria, abutemini patientiam partiti vostri?
>
> VESTRI! (....)
Right!
> "quousque tandem
> abutemini, o Obama ac Hillaria, patientia motus vestri?"
Blyme! Getting bad notes for Latin hadn't hit on me since '71. Makes me feel
puerile again ;-o)
guido
http://home.scarlet.be/~pin12499
Joachim Pense
But then, even if vester morphed back to voster in late Latin, veto or verso
were not reverted, were they?
So does this statement of Craoibhin66 really hold?
> VESTRI! "Noster" is vintage classical Latin all right, but "voster" is
> a late analogy. The correct classical form is vester. (This is another
> nice example of those traits of classical Latin which could not be
> arrived at by reconstruction, if we only had the Romance languages and
> no corpus of Latin.)
Joachim
Dan Leifker
> For that matter, wouldn't it be better to treat Obama as a first-declension
> masculine, like Agrippa? So "Vivat Obama! Vivat nominatus!" And you could
> have the palindromic futuristic equivalent of I Like Ike buttons
> ("Obamam amabo").
Bravo! One of the cleverest things I've read all year. Two marks.
dleifker
Craoi...@gmail.com
> <Craoibhi...@gmail.com> :
>
> > On May 10, 12:03 am, "wugi" <b...@scarlet.be> wrote:
> > > Quousque, o Obama ac Hillaria, abutemini patientiam partiti vostri?
>
> > VESTRI! (....)
>
> Right!
>
> > "quousque tandem
> > abutemini, o Obama ac Hillaria, patientia motus vestri?"
>
> Blyme! Getting bad notes for Latin hadn't hit on me since '71. Makes me feel
> puerile again ;-o)
I have only taken an elementary course back in '93. My idea of Latin
has never gone beyond very shaky, and I certainly couldn't understand
much of "De Bello Gallico", even if allowed to make use of Adolf
Streng's classical Latin-Finnish dictionary.
Craoi...@gmail.com
Well, surely I won't object to that! How would the sentence become
then? "Quousque tandem abutemini, o Obama ac Hillaria, patientia
factionis vestrae"?
mb
> On May 12, 8:31 pm, mb <azyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > But this seems to be about the US Democratic "Party", where the
> > translator needs the proper word, factio. As for the horse races.
>
> Well, surely I won't object to that! How would the sentence become
> then? "Quousque tandem abutemini, o Obama ac Hillaria, patientia
> factionis vestrae"?
Yeah, but I can't judge or follow the partisan political setting that
determined the appeal in the first place, so if factio vestra, then
the appealing outsider is in a peculiar position of a partisan of said
factio remaining outside it; not too simple. Especially from Ms
Noonan, who is not likely to ever write an appeal that would not
further her own nefarious agenda (surely as disastrous as any
Hilarybama). So we won't discuss that. Also, I've never seen a Hilaria
that takes a double l. Why on Earth a double l, anyway? Why not a
double h? To underline her originality? Gimme a break. Also (to me
personally) "O Obama-ac-Hilaria" sounded like an accountant's
vocative. Why not "O Oobama! O[oh] Hilaria!" or the reverse, etc.
mb
...
> and I certainly couldn't understand
> much of "De Bello Gallico", even if allowed to make use of Adolf
> Streng's classical Latin-Finnish dictionary.
No need to understand. The author himself already provided an
unbeatable three-word summary.
Christopher Ingham
>
> - Show quoted text -
Plautus and other early Latin authors regularly use "voster." I'm not
qualified
to speak on the subject of regular sound changes, yet I thought I
should note
that the "o" of this archaic form apparently did not entirely
disappear, but
continued to be pronounced in the vernacular alongside "vester."
Christopher Ingham
Craoi...@gmail.com
Well, that much I certainly understand. As a linguistic curio, I would
like to point out that the Catalan version of Asterix in Spain, which
I bought over here some years ago, the summary was quoted as "veni,
vidi, vinci", probably to make it more accessible to Catalan-speakers.
An example of similar prettification is the way the Finnish version
translates Lutetia as Parisium (!), although even Finnish schoolbooks
duly point out that Paris was called Lutetia in olden times.
wugi
> > ...
> >
> > > and I certainly couldn't understand
> > > much of "De Bello Gallico", even if allowed to make use of Adolf
> > > Streng's classical Latin-Finnish dictionary.
> >
> > No need to understand. The author himself already provided an
> > unbeatable three-word summary.
>
> Well, that much I certainly understand. As a linguistic curio, I would
> like to point out that the Catalan version of Asterix in Spain, which
> I bought over here some years ago, the summary was quoted as "veni,
> vidi, vinci", probably to make it more accessible to Catalan-speakers.
As I heard Spanish priests, though pronouncing a nice Latin otherwise,
fatally say "Et cum Espiritu tuo" ;-o)
guido
http://home.scarlet.be/~pin12499
mb
...
> As I heard Spanish priests, though pronouncing a nice Latin otherwise,
> fatally say "Et cum Espiritu tuo" ;-o)
Well, that is especifically Spanish, while "vinci" is universal
Romance with no exceptions.
Christopher Ingham
The summary, BTW, was a dispatch sent by Caesar to the senate
and referred to his campaign in Asia Minor.
Christopher Ingham
Joachim Pense
And what happened to "veto"?
Joachim
Craoi...@gmail.com
Well, years ago I had a Spanish neighbour who was fluent in Finnish,
and he pronounced the word "strategia" as "estrategia" when speaking
our language. Of course, he should have learned to pronounce it as
"ratekia", in order to sound quintessentially Finnish. :D
Douglas G. Kilday
> > like to point out that the Catalan version of Asterix in Spain, which
> > I bought over here some years ago, the summary was quoted as "veni,
> > vidi, vinci", probably to make it more accessible to Catalan-speakers.
>
> As I heard Spanish priests, though pronouncing a nice Latin otherwise,
> fatally say "Et cum Espiritu tuo" ;-o)
The prothetic vowel goes back to the second century with ISCOLASTICVS
on an inscription of Barcelona; somewhat later we find ISTATVAM,
ISTVDIO, ISTIPENDIVM, and ISPOSE 'sponsae'. This appears to have been
a genuine feature of the pronunciation of Late Latin in western
lands. I wonder if those priests would say "in escola", "in estudio
meo", and the like.
Craoi...@gmail.com
Sure they would, if those with native English pronounce "unus" as "YOO-
nuss".