How to express "you/yours" in Japan to strangers when need to specify 2nd person?
Wes
in the classic vein of circumlocution around using the second-person
personal pronoun in Japanese, I've strenuously observed the rules of
avoiding the pronoun when context is understood or using the person's
name ("Eriko-san no saifu wa desu ka?"). However, I'm confused on
what to do when you have to speak to strangers, *and* you have to
specify the second-person.
The situation was: I was in Tokyo today when some folks carting some
articles across a street (I don't know what for) stumbled at the
curbside and things toppled on the ground. I quickly ran to help out
and pick the objects up, then hand the articles to the people to place
them on the carts (things were apparently stacked in a particular
order). Problem is, each article belonged to a different person, and
when I picked something up, I had to ask whom it belonged to. Since I
knew nobody in the group, I didn't see any way around glancing at a
person and occasionally asking "Anato no mono desu ka?" (The only
alternative would've been to make hand signals to a particular person
and point to the object, but I had to catch their attention sometimes
and I didn't want to look like a mute.)
They were obviously happy to have a helpful gaijin and nobody gave me
a hard time about using "anata," but I wondered afterward if there was
any trick to avoid saying it under such circumstances. I thought I'd
heard somewhere that one could use "otaku" as a super-polite form of
"you" (although I always thought "otaku" just meant "somebody else's
house"). I'd also heard that "oniisan" and "oneesan" ("big brother"
or "big sister") were semi-fashionable polite ways of expressing "you"
to total strangers, but I wasn't sure about this and the people were
of different ages anyway. Is there some verbal abracadabra to avoid
the "anata" in this case, when you're around strangers but have to use
the 2nd person personal pronoun?
Wes Ulm
Aki Moilanen
> The situation was: I was in Tokyo today when some folks carting some
> articles across a street (I don't know what for) stumbled at the
> curbside and things toppled on the ground. I quickly ran to help out
> and pick the objects up, then hand the articles to the people to place
> them on the carts (things were apparently stacked in a particular
> order). Problem is, each article belonged to a different person, and
> when I picked something up, I had to ask whom it belonged to. Since I
Wait a second... Are you sure it wasn't at Narita airport? Your name
isn't Yan?
> They were obviously happy to have a helpful gaijin and nobody gave me
> a hard time about using "anata," but I wondered afterward if there was
> any trick to avoid saying it under such circumstances. I thought I'd
Anata is fine there.
Aki Moilanen
Nobody
Anata is fine in that situation, but you could also have said "Kore wa
dare no desu ka?" kore = this, and dare = who, so this means "whose
is this?" Or you could simply have said "dare no desu ka?" as long as
you are holding the particular item in question and make a gesture
that you're trying to give that one back. After the first item, for
successive items you could simply have said "kore wa", "kore wa",
since the context about asking whose it is has been established from
the first sentence.
Anyway, if you really want to avoid using "anata", simply ask a person
their name. You can avoid "anata" when asking their simply by saying
"onamae wa nan desu ka?" and looking at them, or just "onamae wa?" is
fine. then you can call them by their name. But, this is exactly the
purpose of "anata". It indicates a fairly distant relationship, or
unacquainted people. So don't feel bad using it. Just don't use it
to someone you know well.
julien daux
>
> Anata is fine in that situation, but you could also have said "Kore wa
> dare no desu ka?"
or "donata" in lieu of "dare" for a more formal speech.
Wes
> > the "anata" in this case, when you're around strangers but have to use
> > the 2nd person personal pronoun?
> >
> > Wes Ulm
>
> their name. You can avoid "anata" when asking their simply by saying
> "onamae wa nan desu ka?" and looking at them, or just "onamae wa?" is
> fine. then you can call them by their name. But, this is exactly the
> purpose of "anata". It indicates a fairly distant relationship, or
> unacquainted people. So don't feel bad using it. Just don't use it
> to someone you know well.
Ah, I wasn't aware of that. It seems sensible that "anata" would be
reserved for such a use, but all the texts I'd read simply inveighed
against using "anata" at all, recommending some roundabout rephrasing
of speech. Thanks for the info.
Wes Ulm
Bart Mathias
I'm not sure how seriously you should take that. Many women call their
husbands "anata" or "anta." I've heard it used between other family
members.
It began as a distil. "Literally" it's "yonder, over there," and was
used to address someone in a kind of third-person mode. (There was
"sonata" = "there; where you are" for a closer, more second-person
address; it's long obsolete.) As typically happens to such things,
"anata" degraded, and its use can be tricky.
Bart Mathias