Oachkatzlschwoaf: The word that's 'impossible' to say
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Dingbat
Mar 22, 2023, 8:57:35 AMMar 22
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For Nenda Neururer, the word 'oachkatzlschwoaf' invokes a range of
emotions. The German word is very hard to pronounce and is
synonymous with the Austrian state of Tyrol where locals tease outsiders
by asking them to pronounce it.
Despite growing up in Tyrol, Nenda Neururer often felt like an outsider
when confronted with this word. But when she moved to London she
grew nostalgic for it and it became her little secret.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/reel/playlist/found-in-translation>
The Tyrol is divided between Austria and Italy. The text above seems
to imply that this long name is an alternate name of the part that is
in Austria. I don't see why it should have made her feel like an outsider
if she was from there.
I also don't see why people had any use for such a long word. Is there
a reason why some names are so long as to make it seem likely that
even natives might find them hard to pronounce?
emotions. The German word is very hard to pronounce and is
synonymous with the Austrian state of Tyrol where locals tease outsiders
by asking them to pronounce it.
Despite growing up in Tyrol, Nenda Neururer often felt like an outsider
when confronted with this word. But when she moved to London she
grew nostalgic for it and it became her little secret.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/reel/playlist/found-in-translation>
The Tyrol is divided between Austria and Italy. The text above seems
to imply that this long name is an alternate name of the part that is
in Austria. I don't see why it should have made her feel like an outsider
if she was from there.
I also don't see why people had any use for such a long word. Is there
a reason why some names are so long as to make it seem likely that
even natives might find them hard to pronounce?
Christian Weisgerber
Mar 22, 2023, 12:30:07 PMMar 22
to
On 2023-03-22, Dingbat <ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> For Nenda Neururer, the word 'oachkatzlschwoaf' invokes a range of
> emotions. The German word is very hard to pronounce and is
> synonymous with the Austrian state of Tyrol where locals tease outsiders
> by asking them to pronounce it.
That's an Austro-Bavarian dialect form, corresponding to
> For Nenda Neururer, the word 'oachkatzlschwoaf' invokes a range of
> emotions. The German word is very hard to pronounce and is
> synonymous with the Austrian state of Tyrol where locals tease outsiders
> by asking them to pronounce it.
"Eichkatzelschweif" in Standard German, with "Eichkatzel" a dialect
term for "Eichhörnchen", squirrel. The whole word means "squirrel
tail".
Apparently it's used jokingly as a shibboleth in Bavaria and Austria
to tell locally born people from those who moved there later in
life.
> The Tyrol is divided between Austria and Italy.
region is still predominately German-speaking. If you watch the
Winter Olympics and notice a suspicious number of Italian athletes
with German-sounding names, that's where they're from.
> I also don't see why people had any use for such a long word. Is there
> a reason why some names are so long as to make it seem likely that
> even natives might find them hard to pronounce?
appears to be the "oa" [oa̯] diphthong.
Anyway, I think you (or the BBC) are trying to read too much into
what is just a joke.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Tim Lang
Mar 22, 2023, 12:40:45 PMMar 22
to
On 22.03.2023 13:57, Dingbat wrote:
>For Nenda Neururer, the word 'oachkatzlschwoaf' invokes a range of
> emotions. The German word is very hard to pronounce and is
> synonymous with the Austrian state of Tyrol where locals tease outsiders
> by asking them to pronounce it.
>
>Despite growing up in Tyrol, Nenda Neururer often felt like an outsider
> when confronted with this word. But when she moved to London she
> grew nostalgic for it and it became her little secret.
The German spoken in Tyrol is a bit lesser fitting for the proper
>For Nenda Neururer, the word 'oachkatzlschwoaf' invokes a range of
> emotions. The German word is very hard to pronounce and is
> synonymous with the Austrian state of Tyrol where locals tease outsiders
> by asking them to pronounce it.
>
>Despite growing up in Tyrol, Nenda Neururer often felt like an outsider
> when confronted with this word. But when she moved to London she
> grew nostalgic for it and it became her little secret.
Oachkatzlschwoaf pronunciation. Take other Austrian provinces, where
the variants of the Bavarian dialect are better. But of course take
the regions Oberbayern (Upper Bavaria), Niederayern (Lower Bavaria)
and Oberpfalz (Upper Palatinate) of Bavaria. Tyrol OTOH is kinda
mixture Bavarian + Alemanian_Suebian.
Simply put: don't "freeze in your tracks" in Innsbruck or Bozen & Meran,
rather go to Klagenfurt, Villach, Salzburg and even "ratherer" to
Rosenheim, Munich, Regensburg - to listen to proper Oachkatzlschwoaf
renderings.
>The Tyrol is divided between Austria and Italy. The text above seems
> to imply that this long name
Oach + Katzl + Schwoaf = (Hochdeutsch) Eich + Kätzchen + Schweif
(verbatim "oak-cat tail"). ("oak-cat": squirrel. In standard
German Eichhörnchen, in Bavarian German Eichkätzchen or the
genuine Oachkatzl. They call it a "cat" too, although everybody
knows the animal is a rodent, by no means a feline.)
>is an alternate name of the part that is
> in Austria. I don't see why it should have made her feel like an outsider
> if she was from there.
coming from regions outside Bavaria and Austria) by the way they
pronounce Oachkatzlschwoaf.
> I also don't see why people had any use for such a long word.
shorter words put together - by orthographic convention. If
100-200 years ago the rule had been "no compositum - insert ...
blanks", then the spelling "Oach Katzl Schwoaf" or "Eich-Kätzchen-
Schweif" would have been the accepted one.
Is there
> a reason why some names are so long as to make it seem likely that
> even natives might find them hard to pronounce?
to generate a new noun. Which is a mere writing convention. In
spoken nobody cares (and, anyway, only a tiny minority of the
native speakers in both Germany, Austria and Switzerland is in
nearly complete command of all spelling rules: when writing in
a word; whenever with hyphenation and whenever only with "blanks").
The other thing, why Oachkatzlschwoaf is relevant: the pronunciation
thereof. In which Oach and Schwoaf (regional words) contradict the
standard German (Hochdeutsch) equivalents: Eich(e) and Schweif.
And in which the diminutival -l in Katzl is typical only of South
German dialects. North German dialects use the suffixes -chen and
-ken (typical of Northern German dialects that haven't integrated
the latest medieval Sound Shifts. Hence Mänchen = Männeken;
machen - maken (which stands closer to Engl. make) &c.
(Katzl is rather pronounced /kɔtsl/. Some minorities in Austria and
Bavaria pronounce this -a- even as /ɔ:/ or /o:/. So that one could
write Kotzl, as in the homonymous kotzen, Kotz "vomit". In the
Bavarian dialect, however, there'd be no confusion since "to vomit"
isn't rendered by the general German word kotzen, but by spei(b)en,
which in general/standard German means "to spit". In Bavarian one
has to insert the -b-, speiben, for both semantics. Speien without
a -b- is standard or other regions' German. :-))
Tim
Christian Weisgerber
Mar 22, 2023, 3:30:07 PMMar 22
to
On 2023-03-22, Tim Lang <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> All those "long" German words aren't long: they are strings of
> shorter words put together - by orthographic convention. If
Well, it does involve morphology. Romance languages, for instance,
> All those "long" German words aren't long: they are strings of
> shorter words put together - by orthographic convention. If
don't like to form compounds by piling up nouns. Germanic languages,
very much including English, do--and that's where the orthography
comes in.
My go-to example:
"Abu Dhabi Combat Club Submission Wrestling World Championships
gold medalist"
> 100-200 years ago the rule had been "no compositum - insert ...
> blanks", then the spelling "Oach Katzl Schwoaf" or "Eich-Kätzchen-
> Schweif" would have been the accepted one.
with this. Blanks, hypen, double-hyphen (=), camelCase, they tried
it all. The current scheme of closed compounds happened to win out.
*shrug*
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