Is there a one-word name for the country of Czechs?

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matin

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Feb 26, 2003, 12:02:01 AM2/26/03
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There was a Czechoslovakia, and there are a Slovakia and... a "Czech
Republic". But we do not have to call France "French Republic", don't
we?

Chris Tessone

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Feb 26, 2003, 12:16:26 AM2/26/03
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>>>>> "matin" == matin <matin_l...@hotmail.com> writes:

matin> There was a Czechoslovakia, and there are a Slovakia
matin> and... a "Czech Republic". But we do not have to call
matin> France "French Republic", don't we?

The official name is indeed the "Czech Republic". Ceska Republika is
the name in Czech.

The 2002 CIA World Factbook lists "Czech Republic" as both the long
and short forms of the name:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ez.html

There are shorter forms in other languages---for instance, "Chekhija"
in Russian---but not in English.

Chris

--
Christopher A. Tessone
Knox College, Galesburg, Illinois
BA Student, Russian and Mathematics
http://www.polyglut.net/

benlizross

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Feb 26, 2003, 3:33:41 AM2/26/03
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A Czech friend told me they rejected the obvious name "Czechia" because
it had been used when the country was under Nazi German control (German
Tschechei?).

Ross Clark

Michael Hemmer

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Feb 26, 2003, 4:18:59 AM2/26/03
to
benlizross wrote:
> A Czech friend told me they rejected the obvious name "Czechia" because
> it had been used when the country was under Nazi German control (German
> Tschechei?).

"Tschechei" once was a neutral term just as "Slowakei" or other country
or region names ending in -ei. However, since the Nazis derived the term
"Resttschechei" (rest of Czechia) from it, the word nowadays is
considered offensive by many Germans (and certainly by most Czechs) and
thus has been largely superseded by the (somewhat hard to pronounce)
coinage "Tschechien" in informal use. In more formal contexts,
"Tschechische Republik" is exclusively used.

I am, however, surprised to learn that the English name "Czechia" is
considered offensive as well, since it isn't closer to "Tschechei" than
to "Tschechien". After all, the Nazis haven't used the English word,
have they?

Michael

Torsten Poulin

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Feb 26, 2003, 6:42:36 AM2/26/03
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Chris Tessone wrote:

> There are shorter forms in other languages---for instance,
> "Chekhija" in Russian---but not in English.

"Tjekkiet" in Danish.

--
Torsten

Andreas Prilop

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Feb 26, 2003, 10:54:53 AM2/26/03
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benlizross <benl...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

> A Czech friend told me they rejected the obvious name "Czechia" because
> it had been used when the country was under Nazi German control (German
> Tschechei?).

This a stupid PC argument. You might equally well reject the name "France"
("Frankreich") because it had been used when the country was under Nazi
German control. And note the word "Reich" in "Frankreich"! Perhaps we are
required to say "Franzien" in the future.

Political correctness tries to impose silly and strange names on use
(like "Myanmar").

--
Top posting.
What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?

Chris Tessone

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Feb 26, 2003, 12:06:50 PM2/26/03
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>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Hemmer <mhemmer@nospam_samson.de> writes:

Michael> I am, however, surprised to learn that the English name
Michael> "Czechia" is considered offensive as well, since it isn't
Michael> closer to "Tschechei" than to "Tschechien". After all,
Michael> the Nazis haven't used the English word, have they?

I doubt the Czechs were thinking about the English name at all. They
simply named their country and the English-speaking world never
picked up the habit of using a shorter form like the Russians or
others did.

This situation is nowhere near as ridiculous as the "Ukraine"
vs. "the Ukraine" / "v Ukrainye" vs. "na Ukrainye" situation.

Richard Herring

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Feb 26, 2003, 12:10:33 PM2/26/03
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In message <260220031654532807%nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de>,
Andreas Prilop <nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> writes

>benlizross <benl...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> A Czech friend told me they rejected the obvious name "Czechia" because
>> it had been used when the country was under Nazi German control (German
>> Tschechei?).
>
>This a stupid PC argument. You might equally well reject the name "France"
>("Frankreich") because it had been used when the country was under Nazi
>German control.

But was it used _exclusively_ during that period?

> And note the word "Reich" in "Frankreich"!

All depends _whose_ Reich, doesn't it?

>Perhaps we are
>required to say "Franzien" in the future.
>
>Political correctness tries to impose silly and strange names on use
>(like "Myanmar").

Myanma is just one of a number of names by which that country used to be
known by its inhabitants. If they choose to reject the single name which
was used in colonial times, what's the problem? If a less repressive
government had made the same decision, would we be hearing moans about
"political correctness" then?

--
Richard Herring

Andrew Woode

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Feb 26, 2003, 2:40:59 PM2/26/03
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Chris Tessone <tes...@polyglut.net> wrote in message news:<m2znojb...@pi.student.knet.edu>...

> >>>>> "matin" == matin <matin_l...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> matin> There was a Czechoslovakia, and there are a Slovakia
> matin> and... a "Czech Republic". But we do not have to call
> matin> France "French Republic", don't we?
>
> The official name is indeed the "Czech Republic". Ceska Republika is
> the name in Czech.
>
> The 2002 CIA World Factbook lists "Czech Republic" as both the long
> and short forms of the name:
>
> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ez.html
>
> There are shorter forms in other languages---for instance, "Chekhija"
> in Russian---but not in English.
>
> Chris

This descibes the usage of most authoritative users in both Czech and
English; but there have been attempts to make the short forms
"Czechia" (in English) and "Cesko" (in Czech, with c-hacek) official:
according to an interesting account at
http://klaudyan.psomart.cz/clanky/jelecek001.asp, official Czech
bodies stated in 1993 that these (along with French Tchéquie, Spanish
Chequia, German Tschechien and the Russian form mentioned above) would
be the official short name of the new state, and the foreign minister
Zielenec referred to "Czechia" in an interview. "Czechia" as a country
name (as opposed to organisations using the form for other purposes)
still seems rare despite this.
I'm rather out of touch with contemporary Czech usage, but my
impression from online media (and a Google search) is that Cesko is
beginning to be used for the country at least sometimes by reasonably
authoritative sources (e.g. by Czech radio at
http://www.rozhlas.cz/izurnal/cesko/), to a greater extent than I
remember from the mid-nineties. Of course many still object to it, in
part because of the confusion with 'Cechy' (Bohemia, the Western part
of the Czech Republic), and the fact that the adjective 'cesky' (hacek
on c, acute on y) has to cover both 'Bohemian' and 'Czech'.
I have to declare an interest as my job requires me very regularly to
type the standard English name of the country (in a system where
pasting a word in is often more time-consuming than typing it in
full). So far I have to accept that "Czech Republic" is the shortest I
can get away with - but I am looking forward to being able to save a
few keystrokes when conventions change!

Andreas Prilop

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Feb 26, 2003, 4:44:04 PM2/26/03
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Richard Herring <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

>> This a stupid PC argument. You might equally well reject the name "France"
>> ("Frankreich") because it had been used when the country was under Nazi
>> German control.
>
> But was it used _exclusively_ during that period?

No. But "Tschechei" only happens to be used during that period because
formerly there was "Tschechoslowakei" (Czechoslovakia) and "Böhmen
und Mähren" (Bohemia? and Moravia?).

>> Political correctness tries to impose silly and strange names on use
>> (like "Myanmar").
>
> Myanma is just one of a number of names by which that country used to be
> known by its inhabitants. If they choose to reject the single name which
> was used in colonial times, what's the problem?

They can choose whatever they want in *their* language. I think this
name Myanma[r] was in use long before in *their* language. But they
cannot dictate how to say in English or German. This country is
called "Burma" in English and "Birma" in German; absolutely no
reason to change.

What's next? Must we use "Suomi" instead of "Finland"? Do I require you
to say "Federal Republic of Deutschland"? Of course not.

Prai Jei

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Feb 26, 2003, 5:55:24 PM2/26/03
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"Andreas Prilop" <nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> wrote in message
news:260220032244045690%nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de...

> What's next? Must we use "Suomi" instead of "Finland"?
Both names are correct since the country so designated is bilingual.
Similarly many cities (Helsinki/Helsingfors) and even streets
(Sibeliuksenkatu/Sibeliusgatan).

My homeland is similarly bilingual, but we do not ask the English-speaking
world to say "Cymru" instead of "Wales", "Caerdydd" instead of "Cardiff",
"Heol y Frenhines" instead of "Queen Street".


Prai Jei

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Feb 26, 2003, 5:57:11 PM2/26/03
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"matin" <matin_l...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:638e67d0.03022...@posting.google.com...

> There was a Czechoslovakia, and there are a Slovakia and... a "Czech
> Republic". But we do not have to call France "French Republic", don't
> we?

Czechland? Czechistan?

Gerard van Wilgen

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Feb 26, 2003, 10:50:35 AM2/26/03
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"matin" <matin_l...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:638e67d0.03022...@posting.google.com...
> There was a Czechoslovakia, and there are a Slovakia and... a "Czech
> Republic". But we do not have to call France "French Republic", don't
> we?

[eng]

Google managed to find about 34,300 web pages in English that contained the
word "Czechia".

[epo]

Google sukcesis trovi proksimume 34.300 retpaghojn en la angla kiuj enhavis
la vorton "Czechia".

Gerard van Wilgen
gvanw...@planet.nl
www.majstro.com (Konciza multlingva tradukvortaro)

matin

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Feb 26, 2003, 9:32:18 PM2/26/03
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"Prai Jei" <pvsto...@prai-jei.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<b3jgs4$aai$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...

Hey! We don't want to have a fight here.

Richard Herring

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Feb 27, 2003, 6:07:30 AM2/27/03
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In message <260220032244045690%nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de>,
Andreas Prilop <nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> writes
So you still refer to (picking a few at random) "Siam", "Rhodesia" and
"the Argentine", do you?

--
Richard Herring

Andreas Prilop

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Feb 27, 2003, 7:16:48 AM2/27/03
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Richard Herring <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

> So you still refer to (picking a few at random) "Siam",

No, "Thailand".

> "Rhodesia" and

I think that's completely different from the other examples because
it's derived from the personal name "Cecil Rhodes" and has nothing
to do with the destinction German vs. native designation.

> "the Argentine", do you?

I don't understand this one. We say "Argentinien" in German.

But, for example, I prefer "Ceylon" to "Sri Lanka". It allows the
derivatives "Ceylonesen" and "ceylonesisch", which could hardly be
formed from "Sri Lanka". I also prefer "Peking" to "Beijing".

Richard Herring

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Feb 27, 2003, 8:22:44 AM2/27/03
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In message <270220031316482428%nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de>,
Andreas Prilop <nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> writes

>Richard Herring <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
>> So you still refer to (picking a few at random) "Siam",
>
>No, "Thailand".
>
>> "Rhodesia" and
>
>I think that's completely different from the other examples because
>it's derived from the personal name "Cecil Rhodes" and has nothing
>to do with the destinction German vs. native designation.

Nevertheless it illustrates a name change that has been successfully
imposed on the rest of the world. There are plenty of other African
examples that I could have picked.


>
>> "the Argentine", do you?
>
>I don't understand this one.

In English it used to be known as "the Argentine Republic", abbreviated
to "the Argentine".

> We say "Argentinien" in German.
>
>But, for example, I prefer "Ceylon" to "Sri Lanka". It allows the
>derivatives "Ceylonesen" and "ceylonesisch", which could hardly be
>formed from "Sri Lanka".

In English you can simply say "Sri Lankan".

--
Richard Herring

phil hunt

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Feb 27, 2003, 8:52:55 AM2/27/03
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:44:04 +0100, Andreas Prilop <nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> wrote:
>Richard Herring <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
>>> This a stupid PC argument. You might equally well reject the name "France"
>>> ("Frankreich") because it had been used when the country was under Nazi
>>> German control.
>>
>> But was it used _exclusively_ during that period?
>
>No. But "Tschechei" only happens to be used during that period because
>formerly there was "Tschechoslowakei" (Czechoslovakia) and "Böhmen
>und Mähren" (Bohemia? and Moravia?).
>
>>> Political correctness tries to impose silly and strange names on use
>>> (like "Myanmar").
>>
>> Myanma is just one of a number of names by which that country used to be
>> known by its inhabitants. If they choose to reject the single name which
>> was used in colonial times, what's the problem?
>
>They can choose whatever they want in *their* language. I think this
>name Myanma[r] was in use long before in *their* language. But they
>cannot dictate how to say in English or German.

There's a country that says its name, in any langauge, is _Cote
d'Ivoire_. The BBC refers to it as "Ivory Coast".


--
|*|*| Philip Hunt <ph...@cabalamat.org> |*|*|
|*|*| "Memes are a hoax; pass it on" |*|*|

marteno

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Feb 27, 2003, 2:23:10 PM2/27/03
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Andreas Prilop <nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> wrote


> >> Political correctness tries to impose silly and strange names on use
> >> (like "Myanmar").
>
> They can choose whatever they want in *their* language. I think this

the names are strange for _you_, supposedly not for them;
and what's theirs is -- the country, isn't it;
and as it is their, i think they know best how to call it;

> called "Burma" in English and "Birma" in German; absolutely no
> reason to change.

you don't see the reason; they do;

> What's next? Must we use "Suomi" instead of "Finland"? Do I require you
> to say "Federal Republic of Deutschland"? Of course not.

if you do, i'll start using it;
btw, in esperanto it is normal to say "Kimrio" for Wales, "Barato" for
India, "Kartvelio" for Georgia... at the beginning (before you get
used
to it) it may seem strange, but it is not; it shows respect to the
land
and to the people;
both "Finnlando" and "Suomio" are used;
but, as for the Ivory Coast, there are two versions "Eburbordo"
(literal
translation) and "Kotdivoro", and i've heard that the locals prefer
the
latter; and that's what counts -- what do the locals prefer;

martin

Andreas Prilop

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Feb 27, 2003, 2:54:34 PM2/27/03
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martin...@pobox.sk (marteno) wrote:

> the names are strange for _you_, supposedly not for them;
> and what's theirs is -- the country, isn't it;
> and as it is their, i think they know best how to call it;

It is their country - but English and German are not their languages.
Imagine this case:
The German government requires you and all other Slovaks to use
the name "Deutschland" instead of "Nemecko" (sp?) in the _Slovak_
language. What would you call this? Cultural Imperialism? Stupidity?

The word "deutsch" is translated differently into other languages:
allemand, German, nemeckij, saksa, tedesco, tysk ... If all these
languages should adopt "Myanma[r]" instead of "Burma", why not
"Deutschland"? Well, _I_ regard this as a silly idea.

--
http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/plonk.txt

marteno

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Feb 27, 2003, 2:55:40 PM2/27/03
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andrew...@hotmail.com (Andrew Woode) wrote in message
>
> This descibes the usage of most authoritative users in both Czech and
> English; but there have been attempts to make the short forms
> "Czechia" (in English) and "Cesko" (in Czech, with c-hacek) official:
> according to an interesting account at
> http://klaudyan.psomart.cz/clanky/jelecek001.asp, official Czech
> bodies stated in 1993 that these (along with French Tchéquie, Spanish
> Chequia, German Tschechien and the Russian form mentioned above) would
> be the official short name of the new state

> I'm rather out of touch with contemporary Czech usage, but my


> impression from online media (and a Google search) is that Cesko is
> beginning to be used for the country at least sometimes by reasonably
> authoritative sources (e.g. by Czech radio at
> http://www.rozhlas.cz/izurnal/cesko/), to a greater extent than I
> remember from the mid-nineties. Of course many still object to it, in

yes; as a slovak resident i can confirm, that "C^esko" both in
Slovakia and Czechia :-) is getting more and more used (and not that
objected to and protested about as it used to be before), but is still
far from being massively used by general public

> part because of the confusion with 'Cechy' (Bohemia, the Western part
> of the Czech Republic), and the fact that the adjective 'cesky' (hacek
> on c, acute on y) has to cover both 'Bohemian' and 'Czech'.

or in the opposite way, as the article by Jelec^ek you've quoted says
-- some (particularly non-Czech) tried to use "C^echy" for the Czech
rep., but this is incorrect, because -- just as you say -- "C^echy" is
a historical land, western part of Czech rep.

that is: Czechia = Bohemia + Moravia
C^esko = C^echy + Morava
(Moravia&Silesia, Morava&Slezsko, to be precise)

i think difference between the words "C^esko" and "C^echy" is
sufficient to make the distinction

> So far I have to accept that "Czech Republic" is the shortest I
> can get away with - but I am looking forward to being able to save a
> few keystrokes when conventions change!

i think it's just that people have to get used to it, and this takes
time

martin

Gerard van Wilgen

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Feb 27, 2003, 7:20:21 PM2/27/03
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"marteno" <martin...@pobox.sk> wrote in message
news:b30a5b6b.03022...@posting.google.com...
> Andreas Prilop <nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> wrote

>
>
> > called "Burma" in English and "Birma" in German; absolutely no
> > reason to change.
>
> you don't see the reason; they do;

La birmanoj ne parolas la anglan au la germanan, do ilia kialo estas
nekoncerna.

> > What's next? Must we use "Suomi" instead of "Finland"? Do I require you
> > to say "Federal Republic of Deutschland"? Of course not.
>
> if you do, i'll start using it;
> btw, in esperanto it is normal to say "Kimrio" for Wales, "Barato" for
> India,

Mi mem preferas "Hindujo" au "Hindio".

> "Kartvelio" for Georgia... at the beginning (before you get
> used
> to it) it may seem strange, but it is not; it shows respect to the
> land
> and to the people;
> both "Finnlando" and "Suomio" are used;

"Finnlando", "Finnujo", "Finnio"; mi opinias ke tri esperantaj nomoj por unu
lando estas sufichega!

> but, as for the Ivory Coast, there are two versions "Eburbordo"
> (literal
> translation) and "Kotdivoro", and i've heard that the locals prefer
> the
> latter; and that's what counts -- what do the locals prefer;
>

Mi tre dubas chu multaj eburbordanoj scipovas la esperanton.

Pierre Jelenc

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Feb 28, 2003, 2:55:19 AM2/28/03
to
marteno <martin...@pobox.sk> writes:
>
> btw, in esperanto it is normal to say "Kimrio" for Wales, "Barato" for
> India, "Kartvelio" for Georgia... at the beginning (before you get
> used to it) it may seem strange, but it is not; it shows respect to the
> land and to the people;

What's France, Germany, USA, Armenia in Georgian? Are they "respecting"
others?

> translation) and "Kotdivoro", and i've heard that the locals prefer
> the latter;

The locals or the local government?

> and that's what counts -- what do the locals prefer;

No; it's what the speakers of the language prefer!

Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc | H o m e O f f i c e R e c o r d s
| * Marwood * The Cucumbers *
T h e G i g o m e t e r | * Switchblade Kittens * Pawnshop *
www.thegigometer.com | www.homeofficerecords.com

Pierre Jelenc

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Feb 28, 2003, 2:58:10 AM2/28/03
to

Tchéquie in French, though not officially.

http://www.tchequie.net/

PJKriha

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Feb 28, 2003, 3:26:28 AM2/28/03
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benlizross <benl...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:<3E5C7B...@ihug.co.nz>...

I don't understand how this worked.
How did the Czechs *reject* the name "Czechia"?

Many different languages use one word names for CR. The speakers
decided they needed one and the language allowed them to create
one. If the English speakers can't manage to come up with one
it's their worries. It's not up to the Czechs to come up with
one for them.

In any case, why is it such an issue anyway?
Czech Republic is 4 syllables long and is quicker to
pronounce than Czechoslovakia which was 7(6?) syllables
long and nobody agonized about it then.

Paul JK

matin

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Feb 28, 2003, 5:12:51 PM2/28/03
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kri...@actrix.co.nz (PJKriha) wrote in message news:<ffc54163.03022...@posting.google.com>...

> In any case, why is it such an issue anyway?
> Czech Republic is 4 syllables long and is quicker to
> pronounce than Czechoslovakia which was 7(6?) syllables
> long and nobody agonized about it then.

I would say this is a linguistic issue. English should have a nounal
form for "Czech". "Czech Republic" is a noun phrase, but it includes
the form of government, which is sometimes unnecessary information in
referring to the country of the Czechs. One does not always have to
be this formal.

marteno

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Feb 28, 2003, 6:28:20 PM2/28/03
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"Gerard van Wilgen" <gvanw...@planet.nl> wrote

> > btw, in esperanto it is normal to say "Kimrio" for Wales, "Barato" for
> > India,
>
> Mi mem preferas "Hindujo" au "Hindio".


i don't, because Hindi is only one of the vast number of nations that
inhabit the country

"lando ne apartenas al tiu aux alia gento, sed plene egalrajte al
cxiuj gxiaj konstantaj logxantoj"

hmmm... though written in 1905, it deserves translating even today: "a
country does not belong to any race/nation, but fully equally to all
its permanent inhabitants"; and when considering such a multiethnical
country as Barato is -- you really can't say which nation does it
"belong to"

> "Finnlando", "Finnujo", "Finnio"; mi opinias ke tri esperantaj nomoj por unu
> lando estas sufichega!

i count them for one name; "Suomi" is the other; and nefiksiteco de
e-aj finajxoj cxe landonomoj does not belong here -- it's another
issue;

other things see below
m.

marteno

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Feb 28, 2003, 7:02:11 PM2/28/03
to
Andreas Prilop:

> It is their country - but English and German are not their languages.

yea, i think there is something in it, i think i was trying to be too
radical;
as for "Deutschland" vs. "Nemecko" ... if you claimed you really did
mind, i'd try hard to reconsider... but i doubt how you could convince
all my fellow country-men; it'd take time, of course; perhaps you know
"Nemec" means "a mute" originally (not my lang => not a lang) it was
back in those times, when old Slavs did not understand a bit of
German; today they do, German is learnt and respected in our countries
and when we refer to "Nemec", "nemecky'", "Nemecko" -- guaranteedly
nobody (99.9% ever) thinks of any muteness; that's what we call "loss
of semantic motivation"

Pierre:


> No; it's what the speakers of the language prefer!

of course you may do/say what do you prefer, but what i prefer, is to
care also about what other people prefer

that is: it's not question of posession or might; it's that i'm ready
to admit that those who live there just _must_ know better how to call
it :-)

> La birmanoj ne parolas la anglan au la germanan, do ilia kialo estas
> nekoncerna.

Andreas Prilop:


> It is their country - but English and German are not their languages.

whose is English/German? if they are considered as national languages,
of course not; but as they are used as means of _international_
communication, then the matter is quite different;

for an international language with an international community of
speakers as Esperanto is quite natural to regard these issues, because
the inhabitants of the country in question are equal members of the
community of speakers, and everybody is ready to (and considers is
normal) respect members of other cultures

but i do admit that with national languages as Slovak, it would be
quite hard to change e.g. Nemecko to, say, "Dojc^land"

> > translation) and "Kotdivoro", and i've heard that the locals prefer
> > the latter;
>
> The locals or the local government?

> Mi tre dubas chu multaj eburbordanoj scipovas la esperanton.

honestly i don't know and don't remember where have heard of that
preference;
but i guess the Kotdivorian esperantists not to be members of their
government

m.

Peter T. Daniels

unread,
Feb 28, 2003, 7:49:29 PM2/28/03
to

You have a problem with Dominican Republic? It's not the same country as
Dominica, you know.
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net

marteno

unread,
Mar 1, 2003, 6:49:59 AM3/1/03
to
kri...@actrix.co.nz (PJKriha) wrote

>
> In any case, why is it such an issue anyway?
> Czech Republic is 4 syllables long and is quicker to
> pronounce than Czechoslovakia which was 7(6?) syllables
> long and nobody agonized about it then.

Czecho-Slovakia consists of two words/proper names of 2 nations
that's why it has to be that long :-)
m.

matin

unread,
Mar 1, 2003, 1:43:54 PM3/1/03
to
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<3E600...@worldnet.att.net>...

> matin wrote:
> >
> > I would say this is a linguistic issue. English should have a nounal
> > form for "Czech". "Czech Republic" is a noun phrase, but it includes
> > the form of government, which is sometimes unnecessary information in
> > referring to the country of the Czechs. One does not always have to
> > be this formal.
>
> You have a problem with Dominican Republic? It's not the same country as
> Dominica, you know.

The two contries are Commonwealth of Dominica ("Dominica" is the short
form) and República Dominicana (no short form). But... we don't have
a Czech Commonwealth, do we?

I remember the other day I was watching David Letterman. The guest
was a gorgeous Czech model. I think her name was Nemcova. She spoke
almost impeccable English. Although nothing was terribly funny in
what she said, but people laughed anyway... It is always pleasant to
see a pretty and smart young lady, you know... Then I noticed she
referred to her home country as "Czech". No "Republic"! Of course
nobody cared. Who cares whether such a nice girl makes grammatical
mistakes! But... She really did not know the correct English name
for her country? I don't think so. Maybe she just dropped "Republic"
since she knew people came just for laughing, and if there was any
politics, laughing it off? Would it be nicer if she could drop
"Republic" without incurring a grammatical error?

M. Ranjit Mathews

unread,
Mar 2, 2003, 7:18:26 PM3/2/03
to
matin wrote:
> There was a Czechoslovakia, and there are a Slovakia and... a "Czech
> Republic". But we do not have to call France "French Republic", don't
> we?

Not without a numeral before it, since there have been several French
Republics.


PJKriha

unread,
Mar 3, 2003, 8:07:53 AM3/3/03
to
matin_l...@hotmail.com (matin) wrote in message news:<638e67d0.03030...@posting.google.com>...

> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<3E600...@worldnet.att.net>...
> > matin wrote:
> > >
> > > I would say this is a linguistic issue. English should have a nounal
> > > form for "Czech". "Czech Republic" is a noun phrase, but it includes
> > > the form of government, which is sometimes unnecessary information in
> > > referring to the country of the Czechs. One does not always have to
> > > be this formal.

When you refer to 'land' in Poland, Deutschland, or Russland are you
also being formal? If not, why not?



> > You have a problem with Dominican Republic? It's not the same country as
> > Dominica, you know.

Good point.



> The two contries are Commonwealth of Dominica ("Dominica" is the short
> form) and República Dominicana (no short form). But... we don't have
> a Czech Commonwealth, do we?

No in case of CR it's not called Commonwealth, it's called Republic.
Czech Republic = C^echy + Morava + Slezko (ie. Bohemia + Moravia + Cz.Silezia)



> I remember the other day I was watching David Letterman. The guest
> was a gorgeous Czech model. I think her name was Nemcova. She spoke
> almost impeccable English. Although nothing was terribly funny in
> what she said, but people laughed anyway... It is always pleasant to
> see a pretty and smart young lady, you know... Then I noticed she
> referred to her home country as "Czech". No "Republic"! Of course
> nobody cared. Who cares whether such a nice girl makes grammatical
> mistakes!

What makes you think she was making a grammatical mistake?
Are you sure she was refering to Czech *Republic*? :-)

PJK.

matin

unread,
Mar 3, 2003, 12:54:52 PM3/3/03
to
kri...@actrix.co.nz (PJKriha) wrote in message news:<ffc54163.03030...@posting.google.com>...

> matin_l...@hotmail.com (matin) wrote in message news:<638e67d0.03030...@posting.google.com>...
> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<3E600...@worldnet.att.net>...
> > > matin wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I would say this is a linguistic issue. English should have a nounal
> > > > form for "Czech". "Czech Republic" is a noun phrase, but it includes
> > > > the form of government, which is sometimes unnecessary information in
> > > > referring to the country of the Czechs. One does not always have to
> > > > be this formal.
>
> When you refer to 'land' in Poland, Deutschland, or Russland are you
> also being formal? If not, why not?

No. Because no form of government is involved in "Deutschland" or
"Poland".

>
> > > You have a problem with Dominican Republic? It's not the same country as
> > > Dominica, you know.
>
> Good point.
>
> > The two contries are Commonwealth of Dominica ("Dominica" is the short
> > form) and República Dominicana (no short form). But... we don't have
> > a Czech Commonwealth, do we?
>
> No in case of CR it's not called Commonwealth, it's called Republic.
> Czech Republic = C^echy + Morava + Slezko (ie. Bohemia + Moravia + Cz.Silezia)

You did not get my point. Maybe I was not vey clear. The point was:
If there were no Commonwealth of Dominica, people probably would call
the Dominican Republic as "Dominica".

>
> > I remember the other day I was watching David Letterman. The guest
> > was a gorgeous Czech model. I think her name was Nemcova. She spoke
> > almost impeccable English. Although nothing was terribly funny in
> > what she said, but people laughed anyway... It is always pleasant to
> > see a pretty and smart young lady, you know... Then I noticed she
> > referred to her home country as "Czech". No "Republic"! Of course
> > nobody cared. Who cares whether such a nice girl makes grammatical
> > mistakes!
>
> What makes you think she was making a grammatical mistake?
> Are you sure she was refering to Czech *Republic*? :-)
>

I am certain she used "Czech" as a country name, not as a language
name.

António Pedro Marques

unread,
Mar 3, 2003, 3:43:39 PM3/3/03
to
marteno wrote:

>>>>Political correctness tries to impose silly and strange names on use
>>>>(like "Myanmar").
>>
>>They can choose whatever they want in *their* language. I think this
>
> the names are strange for _you_, supposedly not for them;
> and what's theirs is -- the country, isn't it;
> and as it is their, i think they know best how to call it;

'Burma' is how the native word appeared in English, and no Burmese
government has any right to impose 'Myanmar' to any English speaker, the
more so since the original word has no r!


> btw, in esperanto it is normal to say "Kimrio" for Wales, "Barato" for
> India, "Kartvelio" for Georgia... at the beginning (before you get
> used
> to it) it may seem strange, but it is not; it shows respect to the
> land
> and to the people;

No, it means that Esperanto is an artificial communication tool which
obviously belongs to no one and as such it may as well get along with
whatever the natives prefer.
--
António Pedro Marques . http://enseada.planetaclix.pt

Andrew Woode

unread,
Mar 3, 2003, 3:52:47 PM3/3/03
to
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<3E600...@worldnet.att.net>...
> > matin wrote:
> > >
> > > I would say this is a linguistic issue. English should have a nounal
> > > form for "Czech". "Czech Republic" is a noun phrase, but it includes
> > > the form of government, which is sometimes unnecessary information in
> > > referring to the country of the Czechs. One does not always have to
> > > be this formal.
Another disadvantage of 'Republic' is in historical references. One
often wants to talk about the territory of a modern state at some
period in the past, even if it was not independent or unified at that
point. With most countries that is easy enough: 'Medieval Wales'
'eighteenth-century France'; but 'the medieval Czech Republic'?! You
can obviously find other phrases 'Kingdom of Bohemia', 'lands of the
Czech crown' etc for the relevant historical periods, but nothing that
links past to present simply. To be able to say 'Medieval Czechia'
would have its uses.

>
> I remember the other day I was watching David Letterman. The guest
> was a gorgeous Czech model. I think her name was Nemcova. She spoke
> almost impeccable English. Although nothing was terribly funny in
> what she said, but people laughed anyway... It is always pleasant to
> see a pretty and smart young lady, you know... Then I noticed she
> referred to her home country as "Czech". No "Republic"! Of course
> nobody cared. Who cares whether such a nice girl makes grammatical
> mistakes! But... She really did not know the correct English name
> for her country? I don't think so. Maybe she just dropped "Republic"
> since she knew people came just for laughing, and if there was any
> politics, laughing it off? Would it be nicer if she could drop
> "Republic" without incurring a grammatical error?

'Czech'on its own was standard usage among some American residents of
the country in question in 95-6. Perhaps the lady in question has been
talking to them?
Incidentally I remember a humorous article in one Czech newspaper some
years ago about finding a one-word name for the country. Among many
other silly suggestions was naming it after another Nemcova (Bozena,
I'm afraid - the writer); I forget the precise suffix used. Lovely
potential for confusion with 'Nemecko' (Germany), as they pointed out!

Andreas Prilop

unread,
Mar 3, 2003, 4:27:40 PM3/3/03
to
andrew...@hotmail.com (Andrew Woode) wrote:

> Incidentally I remember a humorous article in one Czech newspaper some
> years ago about finding a one-word name for the country. Among many
> other silly suggestions was naming it after another Nemcova (Bozena,
> I'm afraid - the writer); I forget the precise suffix used. Lovely
> potential for confusion with 'Nemecko' (Germany), as they pointed out!

Even presidents tumble over Slovakia/Slovenia.

--
Will the turkey become freedom fowl?

Peter T. Daniels

unread,
Mar 3, 2003, 5:43:27 PM3/3/03
to
matin wrote:
>
> kri...@actrix.co.nz (PJKriha) wrote in message news:<ffc54163.03030...@posting.google.com>...
> > matin_l...@hotmail.com (matin) wrote in message news:<638e67d0.03030...@posting.google.com>...
> > > "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<

> > > > You have a problem with Dominican Republic? It's not the same country as


> > > > Dominica, you know.
> >
> > Good point.
> >
> > > The two contries are Commonwealth of Dominica ("Dominica" is the short
> > > form) and República Dominicana (no short form). But... we don't have
> > > a Czech Commonwealth, do we?
> >
> > No in case of CR it's not called Commonwealth, it's called Republic.
> > Czech Republic = C^echy + Morava + Slezko (ie. Bohemia + Moravia + Cz.Silezia)
>
> You did not get my point. Maybe I was not vey clear. The point was:
> If there were no Commonwealth of Dominica, people probably would call
> the Dominican Republic as "Dominica".

Nope. The Dominican Republic existed long before Dominica (as a
country).

M. Ranjit Mathews

unread,
Mar 3, 2003, 7:31:23 PM3/3/03
to
António Pedro Marques wrote:
> marteno wrote:

> 'Burma' is how the native word appeared in English, and no Burmese
> government has any right to impose 'Myanmar' to any English speaker, the
> more so since the original word has no r!

Burma was (at one time) only one part of what is now called Myanmar. Are
Arakanese, Peguans, Tennaserimese and Karens Burmans?

matin

unread,
Mar 3, 2003, 8:51:38 PM3/3/03
to
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<3E63DA...@worldnet.att.net>...

I do not know much about the history of that part of the world, but I
think it would be helpful if we know who were the first to use
"Dominica" as the name of their territory. Who gained the sovereignty
first is irrelevant here.

Peter T. Daniels

unread,
Mar 3, 2003, 10:32:00 PM3/3/03
to

Columbus founded the city of Santo Domingo in 1492 -- you can't get
named with a Christian name any earlier than that.

John Atkinson

unread,
Mar 4, 2003, 5:48:02 AM3/4/03
to

"M. Ranjit Mathews" <ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote ...

>António Pedro Marques wrote:

>> marteno wrote:

No, they're not Burmans, but they are Burmese. Though many of them would
prefer not to be.

John.


matin

unread,
Mar 4, 2003, 2:12:16 PM3/4/03
to
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:<3E641E...@worldnet.att.net>...

Some useful information:

History of the Commonwealth of Dominica:
http://www.skyviews.com/dominica/history.html

"...Columbus was the first European to set eyes on Dominica on 3rd
November, 1493 - it was a Sunday - so he named it after the day..."
____________________________________________________________

History of the Dominican Republic:
http://www.hispaniola.com/DR/Guides/History.html

"...Just before their departure, during the night of Christmas Eve
1492, after returning from 2 days of partying with their Indian hosts,
Columbus' flagship, the Santa Maria, ran afoul on a reef and was
wrecked a few miles east of present-day Cap Haïtien after the crew all
fell asleep. Although with the help of the Indians they were able to
salvage all the valuables, the ship was lost. So Columbus was obliged
to found a small settlement that he named Navidad, and left behind a
small group of 39 Spaniards when he departed for Spain.

"Within a short time of his departure, these settlers began fighting
among themselves, with some of them getting killed. They also offended
the natives by forcibly taking 3 or 4 of their wives or sisters each,
and forcing them to work as their servants. After several months of
these abuses, a tribal chief named Caonabo attacked the settlement and
killed the remaining Spaniards. So when Columbus returned to the
island the next spring with a large expedition, he and the Spaniards
were shocked to find that the settlement they had left behind was
empty and had been burned to the ground.

"The first permanent European settlement was founded in 1493 at
Isabella, on the north coast of the island not far east of Puerto
Plata..."

"...Bartholomew Columbus was appointed governor while his brother
Christopher continued his explorations in the Caribbean region, and
after the discovery of gold in the Ozama river valley in the south,
founded the city of Santo Domingo in 1496..."

It seems that the Spanish colony was called Santo Domingo, until
"independence of the eastern side of the island was officially
declared on February 27, 1844, and the name of Dominican Republic was
adopted."

matin

unread,
Mar 4, 2003, 6:38:40 PM3/4/03
to
Andreas Prilop <nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> wrote in message news:<030320032227406554%nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de>...

>
> Even presidents tumble over Slovakia/Slovenia.

Are these two names etymologically related?

Lee Sau Dan

unread,
Mar 5, 2003, 3:06:20 AM3/5/03
to
>>>>> "matin" == matin <matin_l...@hotmail.com> writes:

matin> I would say this is a linguistic issue. English should
matin> have a nounal form for "Czech".

I have a Czech friend who usually tells people he's from "Czechia"
(pronounced as "checkia") when speaking English. I myself say simply
"Czech" (pronounced like "check", but usually the /k/ is replaced with
a German/Scottish "ch").


--
Lee Sau Dan 李守敦(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)

E-mail: dan...@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee

Lee Sau Dan

unread,
Mar 5, 2003, 3:06:22 AM3/5/03
to
>>>>> "marteno" == marteno <martin...@pobox.sk> writes:

marteno> kri...@actrix.co.nz (PJKriha) wrote


>> In any case, why is it such an issue anyway? Czech Republic
>> is 4 syllables long and is quicker to pronounce than
>> Czechoslovakia which was 7(6?) syllables long and nobody
>> agonized about it then.

7? How can you count 7 syllables out of that?


BTW, Czechoslovakia no longer exists. It split up into Czech Republic
and Slovakia around 10 years ago (in 1993?). They're now 2 separate
countries.

Lee Sau Dan

unread,
Mar 5, 2003, 3:06:20 AM3/5/03
to
>>>>> "Peter" == Peter T Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> writes:

Peter> You have a problem with Dominican Republic? It's not the
Peter> same country as Dominica, you know.

Where is the latter?

Peter T. Daniels

unread,
Mar 5, 2003, 7:56:19 AM3/5/03
to
Lee Sau Dan wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Peter" == Peter T Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
> Peter> You have a problem with Dominican Republic? It's not the
> Peter> same country as Dominica, you know.
>
> Where is the latter?

Lesser Antilles.

Michel Desfayes

unread,
Mar 6, 2003, 1:38:08 PM3/6/03
to

Recently we have witnessed the renaming of some countries like Dahomey
becoming Benin, Congo = Zaire (now back to Republic of Congo !), Ceylon
= Sri Lanka, Burma = Myanmar of which it is a corruption). There still
is an obvious reticence in calling Burma "Myanmar". Sri Lanka on the
other hand has been readily and promptly accepted, although there is
some difficulty for a Westerner in pronouncing Sri. I regret the
forsaking of Ceylon. Couldn't we have conserved it ? After all the
Germans are by no means disturbed if Deutschland is called Germany by
the English, Allemagne by the French, Niemcy by the Poles or Tyskland by
the Danes. The Magyars do not seem to mind being called Hungarians, the
Hellens Greeks, and the Netherlanders Dutch (and their country Holland).
Shqipetars are quite happy beeing called Albanians and the Kartvelebi
Georgians, and their country Sakartvelo. Cerna Gora is universally known
as Montenegro, Bha-rat is called by the Westerners India, Suomi >
Finland, Misr = Egypt, Zhon Guo = China. The Greeks call France Gallika
and Switzerland Helvetia; this latter name has even been adopted by
Switzerland, on postage stamps for instance, in order to avoid spelling
out its four other official names of Schweiz, Suisse, Svizra and
Svizzera; Switzerland's official "all-in-one" Latin name is
Confoederatio Helvetica (CH).
Michel Desfayes


Ron Hardin

unread,
Mar 6, 2003, 1:55:52 PM3/6/03
to
I hadn't heard that Dahomey had become Benin. It would be a great question
to prove that our kids don't know geography.

What was it before it was Dahomey? Perhaps I've heard of it.
--
Ron Hardin
rhha...@mindspring.com

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Automort

unread,
Mar 6, 2003, 3:02:06 PM3/6/03
to
>From: Ron Hardin rhha...@mindspring.com

>
>What was it before it was Dahomey? Perhaps I've heard of it.

Benin.

Dik T. Winter

unread,
Mar 6, 2003, 9:49:33 PM3/6/03
to
In article <3E679590...@omedia.ch> Michel Desfayes <mdes...@omedia.ch> writes:
> the Netherlanders Dutch (and their country Holland).

Wrong. There are quite a few Dutch who object to their country being
called Holland. Mostly from the ten provinces that are neither
North-Holland nor South-Holland. But they are practical and allow
the abuse (while internally seething).
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

Guillaume Toussaint

unread,
Mar 7, 2003, 9:04:06 AM3/7/03
to
"Automort" <auto...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030306150206...@mb-fq.aol.com

> >From: Ron Hardin rhha...@mindspring.com
>
> >
> >What was it before it was Dahomey? Perhaps I've heard of it.
>
> Benin.

Not exactly, the country is born as a french colony called Dahomey, from
the name of a historic kingdom located there. The kingdom of Benin was
approximatively in current Nigeria (and partly in Benin), but is much
more famous.

Guillaume

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Charles A. Burge

unread,
Mar 7, 2003, 12:36:05 PM3/7/03
to
Ron Hardin wrote:

I didn't know it had ever been Dahomey. I remember seeing Benin in my world
atlas in the early 1980's...

Charles

P.S. The O.P. left out Upper Volta --> Burkina Faso (and probably others).


Andreas Prilop

unread,
Mar 7, 2003, 12:51:34 PM3/7/03
to
"Dik T. Winter" <Dik.W...@cwi.nl> wrote:

> There are quite a few Dutch who object to their country being
> called Holland. Mostly from the ten provinces that are neither
> North-Holland nor South-Holland. But they are practical and allow
> the abuse (while internally seething).

You mean the football fans screaming "Hup Nederland"? ;-)

--
Top posting.
What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?

mb

unread,
Mar 7, 2003, 2:38:38 PM3/7/03
to
Michel Desfayes <mdes...@omedia.ch> wrote
<3E679590...@omedia.ch>...
...

> I regret the
> forsaking of Ceylon. Couldn't we have conserved it ? After all the
> Germans are by no means disturbed if Deutschland is called Germany by
> the English, Allemagne by the French, Niemcy by the Poles or Tyskland by
...

What do you mean, couldn't "we" have conserved it? Anyone with a
minimum of historical consciousness, if not employed by some
government agency or living under dictatorship remains free to ignore
the arrant nonsense of politician-initiated ignorant renamings. Those
who follow the principle that any innovation automatically becomes the
new standard are also free to change their own usage every now and
then.

M. Ranjit Mathews

unread,
Mar 7, 2003, 2:46:41 PM3/7/03
to
mb wrote:
> Michel Desfayes <mdes...@omedia.ch> wrote
> <3E679590...@omedia.ch>...
>>I regret the
>>forsaking of Ceylon. Couldn't we have conserved it ?

[silOn] is a mispronunciation; it is [sejl@n] in Tamil, pronounced like
"say len".

> After all the
>>Germans are by no means disturbed if Deutschland is called Germany by
>>the English, Allemagne by the French, Niemcy by the Poles or Tyskland by

Germany too doesn't preserve the original pronunciation since comes from
Germanii, which had a hard g like in Gertrude, not a palatalized one
like in "gender".

marteno

unread,
Mar 8, 2003, 4:53:08 PM3/8/03
to
azyt...@mail.com (mb) wrote in message news:<c5d8a9d0.03030...@posting.google.com>...

> Michel Desfayes <mdes...@omedia.ch> wrote


>
> > I regret the
> > forsaking of Ceylon. Couldn't we have conserved it ?
>

> What do you mean, couldn't "we" have conserved it? Anyone with a
> minimum of historical consciousness,

...


> remains free to ignore the arrant nonsense of politician-initiated
> ignorant renamings.

yes; i elect follow the rule, that it's not politicians of any
country,
but people of the country in concern, who 'knows best' how to call it;
i think i've mentioned lately in another thread that in esperanto
we normally say "Kartvelio", "Kimrio", "Nederlando", "Barato" (the
last one not generally accepted by everyone)
... *BUT* we do say "Germanio" (pronounced "g" like in english
"gap"), "Hungario";

> Those
> who follow the principle that any innovation automatically becomes the
> new standard are also free to change their own usage every now and
> then.

inversely: because they change their own usage, they think the other
people do so, too :-) we need both stability and unstability in the
language

Dik T. Winter

unread,
Mar 8, 2003, 10:20:55 PM3/8/03
to
In article <070320031851346891%nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> Andreas Prilop <nhtc...@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> writes:
> "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.W...@cwi.nl> wrote:
>
> > There are quite a few Dutch who object to their country being
> > called Holland. Mostly from the ten provinces that are neither
> > North-Holland nor South-Holland. But they are practical and allow
> > the abuse (while internally seething).
>
> You mean the football fans screaming "Hup Nederland"? ;-)

Yup. The term "Hup, Holland, Hup" comes from a song written in (I think)
the 30s. By (you guess it) people from the Hollands. So the abuse is
allowed. But ask somebody from Frisia whether he lives in Holland and
he will vehemently deny it (unless he is practical).

The use of Holland for the Netherlands is similar to the use of England
for the United Kingdom.

mb

unread,
Mar 8, 2003, 11:09:40 PM3/8/03
to
martin...@pobox.sk (marteno) wrote
<b30a5b6b.03030...@posting.google.com>...
...

> in esperanto
> we normally say "Kartvelio", "Kimrio", "Nederlando", "Barato" (the
> last one not generally accepted by everyone)

Fat chance any country could still be barato in our time and age.

Anyway, we weren't talking about conlangs. When you have a blank slate
you can afford to be politically correct (or incorrect) at will,
without doing violence to a tradition.

Wiktor Sywula

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Mar 9, 2003, 5:20:09 AM3/9/03
to
> or in the opposite way, as the article by Jelec^ek you've quoted says
> -- some (particularly non-Czech) tried to use "C^echy" for the Czech
> rep., but this is incorrect, because -- just as you say -- "C^echy" is
> a historical land, western part of Czech rep.

In Polish, the official name is Republika Czeska, but we usually say just
Czechy.

--
Azarien

António Pedro Marques

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Mar 10, 2003, 6:30:40 PM3/10/03
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M. Ranjit Mathews wrote:

>> 'Burma' is how the native word appeared in English, and no Burmese
>> government has any right to impose 'Myanmar' to any English speaker,
>> the more so since the original word has no r!
>
> Burma was (at one time) only one part of what is now called Myanmar. Are
> Arakanese, Peguans, Tennaserimese and Karens Burmans?

As much as 'myanmarans'. Burma and 'Myanmar' have the same origin. As
you know. Or are you suggesting that 'Myanmar' should be to Burma as
hispanic is to spanish?
--
António Pedro Marques . http://enseada.planetaclix.pt

Michael Farris

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Mar 11, 2003, 1:29:54 AM3/11/03
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matin_l...@hotmail.com (matin) wrote in message news:<638e67d0.03022...@posting.google.com>...
> There was a Czechoslovakia, and there are a Slovakia and... a "Czech
> Republic". But we do not have to call France "French Republic", don't
> we?


My very inelegant usage is:

the Czech Republic (formal)
Czech (informal)

as in.

I haven't been much in Czech, just Prague.

They went to Czech to go skiing.

I'm not crazy about it but I've heard others use it as well.
If I saw/heard more people using Czechia I would too, but til then ...

-michael farris

M. Ranjit Mathews

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Mar 11, 2003, 6:38:49 PM3/11/03
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António Pedro Marques <m....@clix.pt> wrote in message news:<Jc9ba.154$6Y6.3...@newsserver.ip.pt>...

"Myanmarese" and "Burmese" don't have the same connotations any more.
That Myanmar or Bharat meant something else in the past is only of
historical interest. Now, Burmans or Burmese are one of many
ethnicities and Myanmarese are all of them put together.

Full country name: Union of Myanmar (Burma became Myanmar in 1989
after the State Law and Order Restoration Council decided that the old
name implied the dominance of Burmese culture; the Burmese are just
one of the many ethnic groups in the country)

Myanmar, formerly known as Burma, had many names; once Suvanabhomi
(Golden Land), later as Amarapura (Land of Immortality), and also as
Yadanarbon (Land of Gems). You have to find out why. Besides,
international scientists recently rewrote history that Pondaung in
Myanmar is the earliest home of mankind. Myanmar is as large as twice
the size of Germany. Its 135 ethnic groups add up to a population of
48 million.
http://www.myanmars.net/

M. Ranjit Mathews

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Mar 13, 2003, 4:04:32 PM3/13/03