L. tempus < PIE tem-?
Unknown
I was just wondering why L. tempus has, AFAIK, never been attributed
PIE tem- 'to divide, cut', given that Gc words for time were
attributed to PIE da- 'to divide, cut'?
Thanks very much for any insight into this.
Bob
Franz Gnaedinger
Latin tempus 'time' is explained via PIE *temp- 'to stretch',
however, Mallory and Adams 2006 put a question mark
to this etymology, saying that we can't simply extrapolate
our modern understanding of the time continuum into the
past.
Now I must beg you not to read the following lines,
or else you might catch on ideas and be lost for academe.
Words for time and weather go along, French temps 'time'
and temps 'weather', ancient Greek hora 'a defined time'
and hora 'weather'. I derive hora from AAR RAA NOS,
mind NOS of the one composed of air AAR and light RAA,
seen ex negativo through the big limestone ring on the
Göbekli Tepe:
www.seshat.ch/home/ouranos.JPG
www.seshat.ch/home/tablets.GIF
AAR RAA NOS became Greek Ouranos, and the horned
god of the Indus Valley, Lord of the year and the seasons
and their weather, for example the season of the rhinoceros
and monsoon
then also the Indian Varuna and Tamil Murukan, furthermore
Shiva and Durga as one of the emanations of Shiva's wife.
Ouranos was followed by his son Kronos, the god of time,
whence chronos 'time', present in chronometer and chronic,
and Kronos was followed by his son Zeus. Homer in the
Odyssey calls him: Kronion 24 times, Kronide 7 times,
thunder god twice, dark-clouded 7 times, piler of clouds
8 times -- all in all invoking him 21 times as god of time
(Kronion, Kronide) and 22 times as weather god.
Now for Latin tempus 'time' and tempestas 'a point in time
(rare) and tempest'. I derive tempus from TYR PAS;
overcomer TYR everywhere PAS, he who overcomes in
the double sense of rule and give TYR everywhere (in a plain),
here, south and north of me, east and west of me, PAS.
The compound TYR PAS containing the impossible -yrp-
was modified and polished to tempus temps time, while
German Zeit 'time' is a similar development as Magdalenian
TYR Middle Helladic Sseyr Doric Sseus Homeric Zeus
- the Greek TYR is nobody else than Zeus, as Kronion and
Kronide the god of time, and as hurler of bolts and thunderer
and piler of clouds the weather god. Consider also the Serri
bull of the Hittite weather god, and Jahwe from Mount Seir
in the Negev, rider of clouds, from ShA CA, ruler ShA in
the sky CA. Also Jupiter was originally a weather god, from
ShA PAD TYR, the ruler ShA who goes (ahead) PAD and
overcomes in the double sense of rule and give TYR,
ShA PAD TYR Jupitter Jupiter Jove Giove. ShA PAD also
accounts for Shiva, and TYR CA for Durga, and for the
Turk- names.
Now hypothetical TYR PAS has this meaning: the supreme
ruler is present in weather and in time, he overcomes
everywhere, you are exposed to weather and time wherever
you are and go, he rules via weather and time, but he also
gives, he fills the rivers and irrigates the fields with rain,
the sun warms your body and makes the fruit ripe, and he
gives you life, a shorter or longer time on earth - make the
best of it you can.
johnk
> On Dec 21, 1:46 pm, Robert Woodhouse <> wrote:
>
> > I was just wondering why L. tempus has, AFAIK, never been attributed
> > PIE tem- 'to divide, cut', given that Gc words for time were
> > attributed to PIE da- 'to divide, cut'?
>
> > Thanks very much for any insight into this.
>
> Latin tempus 'time' is explained via PIE *temp- 'to stretch',
> however,
<snip>
> the sun warms your body and makes the fruit ripe, and he
> gives you life, a shorter or longer time on earth - make the
> best of it you can.
Mr Woodhouse,
you have now met sci.lang's resident nutcase. Don't believe the crap
that Franz tells you. He made all of it up. I'm sure an actual
linguist who is familiar with your examples will respond.
Unknown
<jhoba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Mr Woodhouse,
>you have now met sci.lang's resident nutcase. Don't believe the crap
>that Franz tells you. He made all of it up. I'm sure an actual
>linguist who is familiar with your examples will respond.
Thanks very much for the warning, but I was already aware of Franz's
"unorthodox" views. I do, however, appreciate his attempts to convince
others that his etymologies are more valid than theirs, and I often
find valuable facts hidden in his etymologies. I therfore read them
with a fine-toothed comb.
Regards,
Bob
Franz Gnaedinger
> Now hypothetical TYR PAS has this meaning: the supreme
> ruler is present in weather and in time, he overcomes
> everywhere, you are exposed to weather and time wherever
> you are and go, he rules via weather and time, but he also
> gives, he fills the rivers and irrigates the fields with rain,
> the sun warms your body and makes the fruit ripe, and he
> gives you life, a shorter or longer time on earth - make the
> best of it you can.
Sadly, some people make a bad use of their time,
for example my stalker who multiplies himself in order
to chase me around as a mob of his own, Panu Petteri
Höglund alias John Bulkington alias Patrick Karl alias
craoibhin66 alias he himself as his own good friend
and pupil Sean Connor soconn1 alias he himself as his
own brother in arms and stalking aide John Hobart Kyle
jhobartkyle johnk alias he himself as his own bride Annina
Kaartinen alias a Rumanian professor who claims to have
discovered the origin of language alias he himself as his
own bride Maria Kupari. He is desperate for company
and attention, driven by a burning ambition, but he does
it all wrong, suffering from the illusion that he can make
himself a name by mobbing me out of sci.lang.
How can I get rid of him him him him him him her him her?
Franz Gnaedinger
Postscript. AAR RAA NOS, mind NOS of the one composed
of air AAR and light RAA, in the rump form of AAR RAA, also
accounts for Latin hora and English hour, and Romantg aura
'weather' (Romantg being the language of the eastern Swiss
Alps). The single RAA may account for the Egyptian Ra.
AAR RAA CA, god of air AAR and light RAA in the sky CA,
would account for Hor / Horus in the Nile Valley, for Proto-
Dravidian *muruku in the Indus Valley, and Tamil Murukan,
while AAR RAA AC, god of air and light on an expanse
of land with water AC, may account for Horakhty, Horus
on the horizon. The eyes of the Horus falcon were moon
and sun, the solar eye representing a month of 30 days,
the lunar eye a lunation or synodic month of 30 days
multiplied by the series of the Horus eye '2 '4 '8 '16 '32 '64,
yielding 29 days 12 hours 45 minutes, mistake less than
one minute per lunation, or half a day in a lifetime (value
provided by the lunisolar calendar from the Göbekli Tepe,
which was also used in the Indus Valley).
The longest generic name of the weather god of old:
ShA PAD TYR AS CA, ruler ShA acitivty of feet PAD
to overcome in the double sense of rule and give TYR
upward AS sky CA, the ruler who goes ahead and
overcomes in the double sense of rule and give up above
in the sky. ShA PAD TYR Jupitter Jupiter Jove Giove.
TYR Sseyr Sseus Zeus, also the Armenian sun archer Tir
and the Norse thunder god Thor, and the Serri bull of the
Hittite weather god. TYR AS CA Tiwaz Tir, the Norse god
of justice and war. ShA PAD Shiva, TYR CA Durga.
TYR CA Turk-. ShA CA Jahwe from Mount Seir in the Negev.
The complete name or title survives in the name of the
village Giubiasco in southern Switzerland, on a bend of
the river Ticino, between the lovely Italian landscape of
the Lago Maggiore and the grim Swiss Alps, where travelers
returning from the mountains thanked for the good weather
they had, while those who intended to climb the mountains
implored good weather from the god. (I guess there is an
archaeological treasure hidden deep below the river bed
of the Ticino in the bend of Giubiasco, at least 15 meters
below the present river bed.)
Franz Gnaedinger
Latin tempus 'temple (part of the head)' is explained via
the swollen arteries. Now I can offer a new etyomology
via TYR PAS. The dark-clouded sky may have been seen
as the front of the irate weather god, kelainepheï Kronidae
(Odyssey 9:552), consider the German expression: mit
umwölkter Stirn 'with clouded front'. For comparison some
quotes from the long description of Colonel Grangerford in
chapter 28 of Mark Twain's The Adventures of Huckleberry
Finn: "Col. Grangerford was a gentleman, you see. He was
a gentleman all over (...) His forehead was high (...) when he
straightened himself up like a liberty-pole, and the lightning
begun to flicker out from under his eyebrows you wanted to
climb a tree first, and find out what the matter was afterwards
(...) He was sunshine most always--I mean he made it seem
like good weather. When he turned into a cloud bank it was
awful dark for half a minute and that was enough; there
wouldn't nothing go wrong again for a week."
Latin templum 'temple (sanctuary)' may then be explained
via TYR PLO, he or she who overcomes in the double sense
of rule and give TYR wattle-and-daub PLO, the god or goddess
in a temple or a sanctuary or a shrine, inside walls made in
the wattle-and-daub technique, for example the shrine of the
bird goddess at Sabatinovka in the Southern Bug Valley,
Moldavia, Early Cucuteni; the shrine occupies 70 square meters
and its walls are built of wattle-and-daub (Marija Gimbutas).
Panu
> He is desperate for company
> and attention, driven by a burning ambition, but he does
> it all wrong, suffering from the illusion that he can make
> himself a name by mobbing me out of sci.lang.
Look, Franz, I have made myself a name by accomplishing something:
http://www.evertype.com/books/sciorrfhocail.html
>
> How can I get rid of him him him him him him her him her?
Very easily. Leave sci.lang and start blogging instead. A blog is just
fine for publishing your crap. I guarantee I won't come anywhere near
your blog.
António Marques
> Postscript. AAR RAA NOS, mind NOS of the (...)
PostScript is a programming language.
Panu
> I do, however, appreciate his attempts to convince
> others that his etymologies are more valid than theirs, and I often
> find valuable facts hidden in his etymologies.
You can rest assured "valuable facts" and "Franz Gnaedinger" have no
intersection at all.
I therfore read them
> with a fine-toothed comb.
Well, some people are coprophagous, too.
lorad
??
Why would you suppose that Latin 'tempus' should be closely associated
with 'divide ' or 'cut' in the first place?
The Latin 'tempus' and 'dividere' describe separate concepts within
the same language.
If you are attempting to quantify the relationship of 'tempus' to
'divide', I would suggest looking to associated language vocabularies
for more understanding..
Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> Latin tempus 'time' is explained via PIE *temp- 'to stretch',
> however, Mallory and Adams 2006 put a question mark
> to this etymology, saying that we can't simply extrapolate
> our modern understanding of the time continuum into the
> past.
... and that seems good enough (with the exception of the referent to
'PIE' - which I cannot accept as ever having existed; no proof)
I can accept that generalized explanation because it closely matches
the translation of Latvian 'temp', which means 'speed' or 'pace'; to
'stretch' time is to modify the perceived 'speed of time'.
So we have an IE 'temp'/'tempus' as generally attesting to a 'passage
of time'..
Next up for consideration is your 'to divide'.
Going back to the Latin 'dividere' - which OED claims as the precedent
for 'divide' (and I don't necessarily) we can see one day cut into
diurnal and nocturnal periods.
Not much there... just the L. nocturnus "belonging to the night," from
nox (gen. noctis) "night" (Latvian 'naktis'), and L. diurnus "daily,"
from L. dies "day" (Latvian 'diens').
For 'cut' (cutting time), you gave "PIE tem- 'to divide, cut', given
that Gc words for time were attributed to PIE da- 'to divide, cut'
OED has 'cut' as "cut (v.) late 13c., possibly Scandinavian, from
N.Gmc. *kut-, or from O.Fr. couteau "knife." Replaced O.E. ceorfan
"carve," sniþan, and scieran "shear." " ... Nice info - but no
reference to 'time'.
Your 'da' is however, more productive
Leaving aside the disputable *PIE attribution, we find the ON 'deila'
- v. meaning 'to divide'.
I believe that I have also seen two examples of a variant form -
'dal' - inscribed on Swedish runestones'...
And I do know that the root also exists in Baltic ; Latvian has
'daliit' meaning 'to apportion'.
Now.. how would this root relate to 'cutting time'?
We know that the 'dal' root also reached Old English with the same
meaning of 'to divide' or 'to portion out'.
Example : 'dole' (OED)
"O.E. dal "sharing, giving out," shortened from gedal "portion,"
related to dæl "deal," from P.Gmc. *dailiz. Meaning of "charitable
portion" (mid-14c.) led to verb "hand out charity" (mid-15c.). "
And so finally, I offer a suspect that *might* deal with both the
'streching' and pace of time and the 'cutting' of time...
(OED has) 'dial'
"1430, apparently from M.L. dialis "daily," from L. dies "day" (see
diurnal). The M.L. was probably abstracted from a phrase such as rota
dialis "daily wheel," and the earliest sense was "a sundial." ...
The key words are 'apparently' and 'probably'.. and the word is not
attested.
OED has made many errors before.
This may be another error that should point back to 'deila'/'dailiz'
and not to 'dialis'.
PS: Apologies if some points were belabored... just wanted to
procedurally develop the logic.
Brian M. Scott
<lora...@cs.com> wrote in
<news:a0ca7458-0443-4bb8...@e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang:
> On Dec 21, 4:46īŋŊam, Robert Woodhouse <> wrote:
>> I was just wondering why L. tempus has, AFAIK, never been
>> attributed PIE tem- 'to divide, cut', given that Gc
>> words for time were attributed to PIE da- 'to divide,
>> cut'?
[...]
> ??
> Why would you suppose that Latin 'tempus' should be
> closely associated with 'divide ' or 'cut' in the first
> place?
He gave the reason in the question, you ass: the Germanic
'time' words are from *dīŋŊ-, from the metathesized zero-grade
of *deh2i-, an extension of *deh2-, whose full grade became
*dīŋŊ-, the older citation form of the root.
[...]
PaulJK
> On Dec 22, 4:52 pm, Robert Woodhouse <> wrote:
>> I do, however, appreciate his attempts to convince
>> others that his etymologies are more valid than theirs, and I often
>> find valuable facts hidden in his etymologies.
>
> You can rest assured "valuable facts" and "Franz Gnaedinger" have no
> intersection at all.
Actually, this could be interesting.
Robert, can you please give us two or three examples of valuable
facts you found hidden in his etymologies?
pjk
Franz Gnaedinger
>
> I can accept that generalized explanation because it closely matches
> the translation of Latvian 'temp', which means 'speed' or 'pace'; to
> 'stretch' time is to modify the perceived 'speed of time'.
But how do you combine temp- 'to stretch' with temp
'speed, pace' ? When you walk you go step by step
from one place to another, you don't strech yourself
from one place to the other, one foot in Zurich the
other in Locarno ... Temp 'speed, pace', however,
goes perfectly well along with my reconstruction of
TYR PAS, for the overcomer TYR gets everywhere PAS,
moving as weather god at a great speed, while time,
in the understanding of the ancient ones, was paced,
not simply a continuum, as we see it, for example
the Roman day had 12 hours and the night had 12
hours, but the hours varied, the hour of a summer day
was long, the hour of a summer day was short, and
vice versa for winter.
What is the Lithuanian word for day?
Franz Gnaedinger
TYR PAS, overcomer TYR everywhere PAS, would account for
Latin tempus 'time' and tempus 'temple as part of the forehead',
equating the sky with the forehead of the weather god who can
make a fine day of sunshine, but also cloud his brow and
sometimes raise a storm. Latin tempestas 'tempest' would
go back to a longer compound, TYR PAS DhAG, overcomer
TYR everywhere PAS able DhAG, and convey this meaning:
the supreme god present in weather and time overcomes
you wherever you are and shows his power in a storm ...
DhAG has many derivatives, among them Latin dux 'leader,
German taugen 'to be good for, to be fit for', tauglich 'fit, able,
qualified; able-bodied', Werkzeug 'tool' and Ding 'thing'.
Ugaritic dingir means god. The supreme Celtic god Dagda
was the good god in the sense of the able god, probably
from DhAG DhAG meaning able able. The word may also
account for Greek theos 'god' and Latin deus 'god' -
incompatible in PIE, now united in Magdalenian. The able
god can brow his cloud and raise a storm, but he can also
make a fine day of serene sunshine, and, in the first place,
he gives you the day, so that we can also claim English
day German Tag as derivative of DhAG.
Franz Gnaedinger
>
> He gave the reason in the question, you ass: the Germanic
> of *deh2i-, an extension of *deh2-, whose full grade became
And I challenge this etymology, the 'time' words are from
TYR appearing in several compounds:
TYR PAS tempus time
TYR Sseyr Sseus Zeus, analogous German Zeit 'time'
TYR PAS tempus 'temple (part of the forehead)'
TYR PLO templum 'temple (sanctuary)'
TYR PAS DhAG tempestas 'tempest'
explanations in my other messages of this thread
PIE can't unite Greek theos 'god' and Latin deus 'god'.
Everybody sees that Greek theos and Latin deus are
the same word, but sound rules can't make them come
together. The reason is that sound rules work backward.
We need another approach that works forward, along
the arrow of time, which is the direction our brain favors.
And this approach is given with Magdalenian, where
DhAG meaning able is the root of both Greek theos
and Latin deus, also for Sanskrit diva, and for English
day German Tag (also explained in my previous post
here in this thread).
I might offer a second Magdalenian test case:
Greek theos and Latin deus are incompatible in PIE
but united in Magdalenian as derivatives of DhAG
meaning able, good in the sense of able.
Harlan Messinger
> On Dec 24, 1:51 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>> He gave the reason in the question, you ass: the Germanic
>> of *deh2i-, an extension of *deh2-, whose full grade became
>
> And I challenge this etymology, the 'time' words are from
> TYR appearing in several compounds:
Would you stop telling lies, please? And please do not make me go
through another marathon, explaining that the possibility that you
might--but only by a coincidence on the order of 1 in 10 to the 1000th
power--be right, does not make it reasonable for you to expect anyone to
give them consideration, and it above all doesn't entitle you to cite
them as facts or as explanations of anything.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
More of a machine-generated page-description language than a
programming language, though I suppose there are some humans
masochistic enough to try to write it.
--
athel
António Marques
> On 2009-12-23 12:59:38 +0100, António Marques <anton...@sapo.pt> said:
>
>> Franz Gnaedinger wrote (23-12-2009 06:36):
>>> Postscript. AAR RAA NOS, mind NOS of the (...)
>>
>> PostScript is a programming language.
>
> More of a machine-generated page-description language than a programming
> language, though I suppose there are some humans masochistic enough to
> try to write it.
It's one of LSD's favorites... oh, wait.
Merry Christmas, everyone! (Whether you like it or not...)
Brian M. Scott
in <news:3oqui59fr0c7mjt4j...@4ax.com> in
sci.lang:
> I was just wondering why L. tempus has, AFAIK, never been
> attributed PIE tem- 'to divide, cut', given that Gc words
> for time were attributed to PIE da- 'to divide, cut'?
Since no one else has done so I'll take a crack at it, but
I'm far from expert. Latin <tempus>, <temporis> is an
s-stem, from an older <tempos> (attested in Old Latin),
<*tempesis>. If it were derived in the usual way from a PIE
root, that root would have to be *temp- (or at least
something that could produce Latin <temp->. PIE *tem- won't
do the trick, and so far as I know, there's no evidence for
a *-p- extension of that root.
There is a PIE root *temp- 'to stretch', a *-p- extension of
*ten- 'to stretch' (with assimilation: **tenp- > *temp-),
and it's been suggested that the Latin word belongs here,
the original sense having perhaps been 'a stretch or span of
time'. However, I don't know the current status of this
suggestion.
Brian
DKleinecke
Why not *tep with a nasal infix? Maybe other consonants than p with
assimilation? I am too lazy to research this - does anything else
fall together with p in Latin?
Brian M. Scott
<dklei...@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:95c070af-c7f3-48cc...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang:
> On Dec 24, 10:54�am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:46:59 -0500, Robert Woodhouse wrote
>> in <news:3oqui59fr0c7mjt4j...@4ax.com> in
>> sci.lang:
>>> I was just wondering why L. tempus has, AFAIK, never been
>>> attributed PIE tem- 'to divide, cut', given that Gc words
>>> for time were attributed to PIE da- 'to divide, cut'?
>> Since no one else has done so I'll take a crack at it, but
>> I'm far from expert. �Latin <tempus>, <temporis> is an
>> s-stem, from an older <tempos> (attested in Old Latin),
>> <*tempesis>. �If it were derived in the usual way from a PIE
>> root, that root would have to be *temp- (or at least
>> something that could produce Latin <temp->. �PIE *tem- won't
>> do the trick, and so far as I know, there's no evidence for
>> a *-p- extension of that root.
>> There is a PIE root *temp- 'to stretch', a *-p- extension of
>> *ten- 'to stretch' (with assimilation: **tenp- > *temp-),
>> and it's been suggested that the Latin word belongs here,
>> the original sense having perhaps been 'a stretch or span of
>> time'. �However, I don't know the current status of this
>> suggestion.
> Why not *tep with a nasal infix? [...]
It typically forms verbal presents, usually transitive. And
*tep- 'to be hot' is hardly a good semantic fit anyway.
Brian
Franz Gnaedinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Would you stop telling lies, please? And please do not make me go
> through another marathon, explaining that the possibility that you
> might--but only by a coincidence on the order of 1 in 10 to the 1000th
> power--be right, does not make it reasonable for you to expect anyone to
> give them consideration, and it above all doesn't entitle you to cite
> them as facts or as explanations of anything.
I present Magdalenian as hypothesis, and if you tell me
your postal address I will send you a bag of conjunctives
so that you can spray a handful of them over my messages
in order to go sure. And yes, go for another marathon if
you feel like it, however, there is a lot of work awaiting you,
for now you have not only the first test case in your way,
bear as the furry one vs. bear as the brown one, but also
the second test case, Greek theos and Latin deus going
back to DhAG meaning able, whereas they are incompatible
in PIE.
Yesterday morning, on Christmas morning, I woke up early
and experienced how it may have felt when time was not
a continuum measured with a clock, a mechanical instrument,
but the presence of the supreme god, the one who overcomes
in the double sense of rule and give TYR and is everywhere
PAS - on the one hand you are totally exposed, on the other
hand you can relax and take it as it comes ... The ancient
ones were not different from us, but lived in a different way,
exposed to the elements while we live in solid houses,
can use as much electricity as we want, turn the night into
day, and detach us more and more from the natural rhythms.
Considering how rapidly the sciences and technology advanced
in my own lifetime, and assuming they will procede at the same
or even quicker pace in the future, the dwellers of Lagany on
Mars in 7 129 AD may again have a different frame of mind.
Mallory and Adams are right, we can't simply extrapolate our
present understanding of time into the past, what we need is
empathy, and I experienced it yesterday morning, for a while,
the different understanding of time uncovered by my TYR PAS
which would have become Latin tempus French temps English
time.
Franz Gnaedinger
>
> Since no one else has done so I'll take a crack at it, but
> I'm far from expert. Latin <tempus>, <temporis> is an
> s-stem, from an older <tempos> (attested in Old Latin),
> <*tempesis>. If it were derived in the usual way from a PIE
> root, that root would have to be *temp- (or at least
> something that could produce Latin <temp->. PIE *tem- won't
> do the trick, and so far as I know, there's no evidence for
> a *-p- extension of that root.
>
> There is a PIE root *temp- 'to stretch', a *-p- extension of
> *ten- 'to stretch' (with assimilation: **tenp- > *temp-),
> and it's been suggested that the Latin word belongs here,
> the original sense having perhaps been 'a stretch or span of
> time'. However, I don't know the current status of this
> suggestion.
The mean spirit of sci.lang reached a new apex
over Christmas. You called Lorad "an ass" for
not knowing that the Germanic time words are
derived from *di- 'to cut, divide', and now you
abandon *di- for *ten-p- *tem-p- 'to stretch',
without an apology to Lorad, of course, and
without mentioning that I gave the opinion of
Mallaroy and Adams on the stretching time.
Here again: they put a question mark to it,
saying we can't simply extrapolate our modern
understanding of a time continuum into the past.
Your lot is very eager in spouting invectives,
but you fail in scientific honesty, covering up
your inadequacies with ad hominems.
Brian M. Scott
<fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote in
<news:d4fe6304-efaf-41b8...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang:
[...]
> The mean spirit of sci.lang reached a new apex
> over Christmas. You called Lorad "an ass" for
> not knowing that the Germanic time words are
> derived from *di- 'to cut, divide',
No, I called him an ass because his misunderstanding of
Robert Woodhouse's post was asinine. Mind you, I'd probably
not have been so blunt had he not long since earned the
appellation many times over.
> and now you abandon *di- for *ten-p- *tem-p- 'to stretch',
Don't be an idiot: I never suggested that *dī- had anything
to do with <tempus> (nor did Robert Woodhouse).
> without an apology to Lorad, of course,
I don't owe him one.
> and without mentioning that I gave the opinion of Mallaroy
That's Mallory.
> and Adams on the stretching time.
Since I almost never read your crap, I wasn't aware that
you'd done so.
[...]
Franz Gnaedinger
>
> Don't be an idiot: I never suggested that *dī- had anything
> to do with <tempus> (nor did Robert Woodhouse).
Here are your words, quoted from your first message
in this thread:
He gave the reason in the question, you ass: the Germanic
'time' words are from *dï-, from the metathesized zero-grade
of *deh2i-, an extension of *deh2-, whose full grade became
*dà-, the older citation form of the root.
The Germanic 'time' words are from *di- ... Your own words.
Can't you stand by them? What is it now: does tempus go back
to *di- 'cut, divide', or *ten-p- *tem-p 'to stretch' ? How can you
say one thing and then the other, even the opposite (cut and
then stretch) without so much as an explanation for this U-turn,
and spouting invectives as you go along?
> Since I almost never read your crap, I wasn't aware that
> you'd done so.
That crap of mine, a free citation of Mallory and Adams,
was contained in Lorad's reply. You must have seen it,
or then you feel so absolutely superior to everybody
that you can reply without reading a message, adding
a handful of invectives for good measure.
Panu
Keep your worthless shit in your worthless shit spamming thread. You
have no business here.
Panu
Do your own research. If you are so fucking interested in Lithuanian,
learn it. People do that, you know. When they need a language for
their research, they learn it.
Oh, but of course Your Lordship cannot be bothered. Your Lordship has
an Idea. Everybody else must bow and kowtow to Your Lordship, and
assist Your Lordship in Your Lordship's great Research. Everybody
else's interests are "idle chatter". Your Lordship is entitled to
destroy all other threads with Your Lordship's Magdalenian crap, but
nobody else is entitled to say anything in Your Lordship's dedicated
Magdalenian thread.
What an utter, utter, utter, utter asshole.
Brian M. Scott
<fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote in
<news:a1747d4d-1e55-4a52...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang:
> On Dec 26, 10:44 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>> Don't be an idiot: I never suggested that *dī- had anything
>> to do with <tempus> (nor did Robert Woodhouse).
> Here are your words, quoted from your first message
> in this thread:
> He gave the reason in the question, you ass: the Germanic
> 'time' words are from *dï-, from the metathesized zero-grade
> of *deh2i-, an extension of *deh2-, whose full grade became
> *dà-, the older citation form of the root.
> The Germanic 'time' words are from *di- ... Your own words.
> Can't you stand by them?
I do, you ass. <Tempus> is not a Germanic time word.
[...]
Brian M. Scott
<fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote in
<news:a1747d4d-1e55-4a52...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang:
> On Dec 26, 10:44�am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
[...]
>> Since I almost never read your crap, I wasn't aware that
>> you'd done so.
> That crap of mine, a free citation of Mallory and Adams,
> was contained in Lorad's reply. You must have seen it,
In point of fact I did not. I replied to the initial idiocy
and snipped the rest without bothering to read it.
Bart Mathias
The late Peter A. Boodberg apparently matched the fact that the Chinese
for "time/time of day," "temple (to pray at)," and "hold, have," have
similar pronunciations and the character for "temple," in two cases
built in as phonetic/semantic, to a notion that the "temp-" of "tempus"
and "temple" and whatever, say, Spanish "tener" comes from belong to the
same family.
Unless I misinterpreted him (if I run into Bill Boltz, I'll ask him). I
took it as interesting but never looked into the notion.
Bart Mathias
Brian M. Scott
<mat...@hawaii.edu> wrote in
<news:hh6bu7$in8$1...@news.eternal-september.org> in sci.lang:
[...]
> The late Peter A. Boodberg apparently matched the fact
> that the Chinese for "time/time of day," "temple (to
> pray at)," and "hold, have," have similar pronunciations
> and the character for "temple," in two cases built in as
> phonetic/semantic, to a notion that the "temp-" of
> "tempus" and "temple" and whatever, say, Spanish "tener"
> comes from belong to the same family.
The problem with that idea is that Latin <templum> (whence
this <temple>) is from PIE *tem-lo-, and the /p/ is
epenthetic; the /p/ in <tempus> doesn't appear to be.
[...]
Brian
Franz Gnaedinger
>
> I do, you ass. <Tempus> is not a Germanic time word.
Magdalenian TYR PAS Latin tempus French temps
English time, German Zeit a separate development
as in the case of Magdalenian TYR Middle Helladic
Sseyr Doric Sseus Homeric Zeus. And in the second
reply you admit that you replied to Lorad without
bothering to read the rest of his message. But the
fact remains that you wrongly said that nobody
brought up *ten-p- *tem-p- 'to stretch' as root
of Latin tempus. I mentioned it, rendering the
opinion of Mallory and Adams that we can't simply
extrapolate our modern understanding of a time
contiunuum into the past. And they are right: my
new etymology, TYR PAS, he who overcomes
in the double sense of rule and give TYR everywhere
PAS, time present in the supreme god, the overcomer
who rules and gives everywhere and is present in time
- this understanding is genuinely different from ours,
as I experienced on the early Christmas morning
by way of empathy. So I have reached a new stage
of Magdalenian, opening a door into a former frame
of mind.
Franz Gnaedinger
>
> The late Peter A. Boodberg apparently matched the fact that the Chinese
> for "time/time of day," "temple (to pray at)," and "hold, have," have
> similar pronunciations and the character for "temple," in two cases
> built in as phonetic/semantic, to a notion that the "temp-" of "tempus"
> and "temple" and whatever, say, Spanish "tener" comes from belong to the
> same family.
>
> Unless I misinterpreted him (if I run into Bill Boltz, I'll ask him). I
> took it as interesting but never looked into the notion.
Now what is the origin of tempus 'time', to hold or to stretch
or to cut? Note that all three words are embodied by the
Roman Parcae, Nona who spun the thread of life, Decima
who measured the thread of life, and Morta who cut the
thread of life - Nona spinning and holding, Decima stretching
and measuring, and Morta cutting. I'd say the Parcae who
were feared by everybody including Jupiter himself are
hinting at an earlier understanding of time, in between the
divine hind of Altamira who licked moon bulls into life and
Ouranos-Kronos-Zeus. The ancient words involved may
have been TYR for he or she who overcomes in the double
sense of rule and give, and DhAG for able, good in the sense
of able. These words would have evolved in many ways,
TYR PAS tempus temps time, and DhAG, a word of very
many derivatives, also became Latin facere akin to English
do, German tun, in another language don. Spanish tener
'to hold' could then also be a derivative of that word, as
*di- 'to cut', consider that also English dagger goes back
to DhAG. German derivatives are taugen tauglich Werkzeug
Ding, also zeugen 'to beget', marking the begin of life.
In my model TYR and DhAG would have been the origin
of all those words, and I am pondering whether derivatives
of two words also existed, kind of ellipses around a word
in each focus of the geometrical curve. You can leave out
all this and just answer my initial question: what is the root
of tempus, a word for to hold or a word for to stretch or
a word for to cut ?
Franz Gnaedinger
Perhaps I can identify the origin of the Parcae in Nyx
'Night', daughter of Demeter and Poseidon, alter ego
of Gaia, one of the very ancient goddesses, even
Zeus feared her, as even Jupiter feared the Parcae.
In the middle of book 14 of the Iliad, Hypnos flees
to Nyx where he is safe from the fury of Zeus.
Homer calls her Nyx, who dictates to the gods and
men alike / overcomer of the gods and men alike
(will have to consult the Greek original). The Elaia
disc, pendant of the Tiryns disc, is dedicated to Nyx
- Come, Noble Late Night, always born anew by the
goddess. The Celts counted time by nights. The
night was then a natural measure of time. Also we
are born out of darkness, and will return to eternal
darkness, born from Nyx and bound to go back to
Nyx, Magdalenian NYG, a word promising pleasure.
Tomorrow when the library is open I will consult the
hundred volumes of the big Pauly for paralleles
between Nyx and the Parcae. Nyx as Daughter
would confirm the role of TYR and DhAG that are
so important for the understanding of early time.
Greek thygataer 'daughter' could well be a derivative
of DhAG TYR, able DhAG overcomer TYR, as every
women began her life as daughter and is potentially
able of giving life.
Panu
> On Dec 26, 10:11 pm, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I do, you ass. <Tempus> is not a Germanic time word.
>
> Magdalenian
Would you keep your Magdalenian fantasies in your Magdalenian thread.
Thank you.
And in the second
> reply you admit that you replied to Lorad without
> bothering to read the rest of his message.
Nobody in his right senses ever bothers to read Lorad's messages, full
as they are of nationalistic trash about how most every other language
descends from "Baltic Latvian" - as if there were any other kind of
Latvian. Lorad is a known kook, as are you. The probability of any of
you ever saying anything worthwhile is so low, that your writings can
be automatically discarded, and this is entirely your own fucking
fault, if you pardon my French (on second thought, pardon or not, I
couldn't care less).
Brian M. Scott
<fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote in
<news:5e0cc6e0-22a9-4989...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang:
> On Dec 26, 10:11�pm, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>> I do, you ass. �<Tempus> is not a Germanic time word.
> Magdalenian [...]
<seufzt> Wieder in den Magdalenischen Misthaufen geraten.
> And in the second reply you admit that you replied to
> Lorad without bothering to read the rest of his message.
Na, und? I responded to a self-contained idiocy. (Now if
only the idiot could contain himself!)
> But the fact remains that you wrongly said that nobody
> brought up *ten-p- *tem-p- 'to stretch' as root of Latin
> tempus.
I said nothing of the kind. I said that no one else had
taken a crack at answering Robert Woodhouse's question. You
don't count: you're a complete ignoramus on the subject, and
a crackpot to boot. That's why I hadn't bothered to read
your response in the first place.
[...]
Franz Gnaedinger
>
> <seufzt> Wieder in den Magdalenischen Misthaufen geraten.
> I said nothing of the kind. I said that no one else had
> taken a crack at answering Robert Woodhouse's question. You
> don't count: you're a complete ignoramus on the subject, and
> a crackpot to boot. That's why I hadn't bothered to read
> your response in the first place.
Me, myself and I have taken a crack at answering
Robert Woodhouses question, you stercorator.
Now the PIE adepts propose three roots of tempus
temps time, namely to hold and to stretch and to cut,
invalidating each one in turn and glossing over the
cracks in the PIE lacquer with a lot of invectives.
That's the way academe works and edus are wired.
Franz Gnaedinger
Magdalenian DhAG TYR Oscan fuutir Old English
dohtor Middle English doughter New English daughter
Old Prussian duckti Old Church Slavonic dusti Greek
thygataer Armenian dusti Lycian kbatra Avestan
dugadar Sanskrit duhitar- Tocharian B tkacer.
Lycian kbatra may perhaps go back to a permutation
of DhAG TYR, namely GDhA TRY, joyous GDhA
triumph TRY, or, as a person, the joyous triumphator.
Who could that be? The love goddess Aphrodite,
born from the sea, somewhere between the beautiful
shores of Lycia and the islands of Cyprus and Crete.
Aphrodite would then be an alter ego of Nyx, the
goddess giving pleasure by night, an overcomer
also she, celebrating the joyous triumph of love.
Tocharian B tkacer may either be a derivative of
DhAG TYR (Dh-G shortened to tk) or then of the
permutation and variation DhGA CER, honorable
DhGA shamaness CER as yet another emanation
of Nyx whose name was taboo.
Magdalenian NYG means night, the time one
spends with a woman, when women have the say.
Franz Gnaedinger
I consulted Pauly. Hesiod says in his theogony that
Nyx was the mother of the Moirae, the Greek version
of the Roman Parcae, and another ancient author
called Nyx the mother of Eros. Now Eros was the
son of Aphrodite, which makes Aphrodite an alter ego
and a particular emanation of Nyx.
The love goddess may go back to the fertility giver
BRI GID, something like brigid - phridit - Aphrodite.
António Marques
> Nobody in his right senses ever bothers to read Lorad's messages, full
> as they are of nationalistic trash about how most every other language
> descends from "Baltic Latvian" - as if there were any other kind of
> Latvian.
Hey, what do you call all the other languages descended from Baltic Latvian,
such as Dutch [Latvian], English [Latvian], Latin [Latvian], Hellenic
[Latvian] or Gaulish [Latvian]??
Douglas G. Kilday
wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:46:59 -0500, Robert Woodhouse wrote
> in <news:3oqui59fr0c7mjt4j...@4ax.com> in
> sci.lang:
>
> > I was just wondering why L. tempus has, AFAIK, never been
> > attributed PIE tem- 'to divide, cut', given that Gc words
> > for time were attributed to PIE da- 'to divide, cut'?
>
> Since no one else has done so I'll take a crack at it, but
> I'm far from expert. Latin <tempus>, <temporis> is an
> s-stem, from an older <tempos> (attested in Old Latin),
> <*tempesis>. If it were derived in the usual way from a PIE
> root, that root would have to be *temp- (or at least
> something that could produce Latin <temp->. PIE *tem- won't
> do the trick, and so far as I know, there's no evidence for
> a *-p- extension of that root.
The plural of this neuter noun is the Greek name of the vale of Tempe,
in Attic <tà Témpe:>, in Ionic <tà Témpea> (Herodotus 7:173). This
vale consists of a narrow defile two miles long, followed by a scenic
valley three miles long, through which the river Peneus drains the
plain of Thessaly. According to H. (7:129) the locals said that
Thessaly had been a great lake until Poseidon created the defile.
This was rationalized by H. as the attribution of seismic activity to
P., whose epithets include <enosíkhtho:n> and <ennosígaios> 'earth-
shaking'. At any rate we can understand <tà Témpea> as 'the Clefts',
referring to the narrow defile.
Latin <tempus> 'temple of the forehead' refers to a steep, cliff-like
part of the anatomy. The other senses of *tempes- and its derivatives
follow from 'a cleaving, section, division'. In its temporal sense,
<tempus> originally referred to a section of time, later a point in
time. Thus <hibernum tempus anni:> is 'the wintry section of the
year' = 'winter-time'. Also <tempesta:s> was originally 'particular
section of time, season', later 'kind of weather, bad weather,
storm'. And the verb <tempero:> 'I control, use moderately, spare'
etc. was originally 'I observe proper limits, stay in the proper
section'.
Since <tempus> has a fossilized locative <temperi:>, <tempori:> 'in
time, on time, at the right time' it can hardly be a loanword from
Greek, and a Thessalian place-name can hardly be Italic in origin.
Thus we are justified in positing a PIE *temp- 'to cleave, divide'
with a regular deverbative *tempes- 'cleft, cliff, division, section'
denoting the result of the action. This is very likely a /p/-
extension of the well-known root *tem- 'to cut'. Whatever the
original force of the /p/-extension was, it seems to occur with
several other PIE roots referring to cutting. The most productive of
these is *(s)kep- as a direct extension of *sek-, which also has
indirect extensions *skeip-, *skelp-, *skerp-. We might also cite
*kelp- and *serp-.
> There is a PIE root *temp- 'to stretch', a *-p- extension of
> *ten- 'to stretch' (with assimilation: **tenp- > *temp-),
> and it's been suggested that the Latin word belongs here,
> the original sense having perhaps been 'a stretch or span of
> time'. However, I don't know the current status of this
> suggestion.
Nor do I, but explaining 'temple of the forehead' on the grounds that
the skin is stretched tightly there seems like, well, a real stretch.
DGK
Franz Gnaedinger
> Nor do I, but explaining 'temple of the forehead' on the grounds that
> the skin is stretched tightly there seems like, well, a real stretch.
The usual reading of *temp- is 'pull' and 'stretch', Lithuanian
tempti 'stretch out, pull out', which would also explain the name
of the vale of Tempe or Tempea, namely as the river valley that
pulls the water out of the former imaginary lake of Thessaly,
draining the basin of that lake.
My explanation of Tempe or Tempea is TYR PAD, he who
overcomes in the double sense of rule and give TYR
activity of feet PAD, here naming Poseidon who walked by
and created the vale and the river that drained the imaginary
basin by shaking up the earth. TYR Middle Helladic Sseyr
Doric Sseus Homeric Zeus usually names this god of the
male triad, however, sometimes it can also apply to the
overcomer Poseidon, exemplified on the Tiryns disc and
Elaia disc. The rosette in the center of the Tiryns disc
represents the emphatic Ss-, followed by a male profile
for -ey- and an ear of grain for -r, together Sseyr, emphatic
Middle Helladic version of TYR, leading from there to the
Homeric Zeus. The rosette always appears where the
supreme gods are involved, for example on the Elaia disk:
walking man k-, rosette -ss-, ship -y-, and so on, together
kssynoris or xynoris 'pair of horses', naming Poseidon
in the guise of a stallion raping Elaia who became Black
Demeter Melaina in the guise of a mare, in Crete Lousia
the angry one, she who makes the plants whither, in fall,
and sometimes before, then causing a famine.
Now the rosette marking the presence of the supreme
gods and godesses on the Tiryns disc and Elaia disc
also has a function in time, as a lunisolar calendar,
one of the several variations of the Göbekli Tepe
lunisolar calendar. One petal marks five long weeks
of nine days (week of the Odyssey) or 45 days, all
eight petals yield 360 days, the small circle in the
center marks 5 and occasionally 6 more days, all in
all 365 and sometimes 366 days of the solar year,
while 21 continuous periods of 45 days, or 105 long
weeks of nine days, are 945 days and correspond
to 32 lunations or synodic months, mistake less than
one minute per lunation, or half a day in a lifetime.
johnk
>
> The usual reading of *temp- is 'pull' and 'stretch', Lithuanian
> tempti 'stretch out, pull out', which would also explain the name
> of the vale of Tempe or Tempea, namely as the river valley that
> pulls the water out of the former imaginary lake of Thessaly,
> draining the basin of that lake.
>
Another totally stupid analysis. Do you really believe you can be
correct when you pull this crap out of the air like that. MORON!!
Please give other examples where a river is seen as 'pulling' water
from a lake (and it doesn't have to be an imaginary lake)....and what
is a 'former imaginary' lake?
Franz Gnaedinger
> Now the rosette marking the presence of the supreme
> gods and godesses on the Tiryns disc and Elaia disc
> also has a function in time, as a lunisolar calendar,
> one of the several variations of the Göbekli Tepe
> lunisolar calendar. One petal marks five long weeks
> of nine days (week of the Odyssey) or 45 days, all
> eight petals yield 360 days, the small circle in the
> center marks 5 and occasionally 6 more days, all in
> all 365 and sometimes 366 days of the solar year,
> while 21 continuous periods of 45 days, or 105 long
> weeks of nine days, are 945 days and correspond
> to 32 lunations or synodic months, mistake less than
> one minute per lunation, or half a day in a lifetime.
The rosette of eight petals in the center of the Tiryns
disc is a perfect representation of TYR PAS which
I propose as origin of Latin tempus, he who overcomes
in the double sense of rule and give TYR, everywhere in
a plain, here, south and north of me, east and west of
me, PAS. Only that PAS, in this case, denominates
more places: here (small circle in the center of the
rosette), south and north of me (two opposite petals),
east and west of me (again two opposite petals,
forming a cross with the previous one), southeast
and northeast of me (two more opposite petals),
southwest and northeast of me (the remaining pair
of opposite petals). Why, then, is TYR PAS not
present in any Greek form? Perhaps because the
rosette conveys more meanings, not only the one
of time, Zeus as Kronion and Kronide, mentioned
31 times in the Odyssey, but also the one of the
windrose, indicating Zeus as weathergod? Both
meanings are present in the emphatic version of
TYR, namely Sseyr Sseus Zeus. But I shall go to
the library tomorrow and look out whether I can find
a Greek derivative of that hypothetical compound.
-
Will my stalker Panu Petteri Höglund and his junk alias
johnk follow me around forever?
Peter T. Daniels
> Will my stalker Panu Petteri Höglund and his junk alias
> johnk follow me around forever?
If you would stop invading other threads with your irrelevant crap,
they wouldn't have to follow you.
BTW it's very clear from their discourse style (and their choices of
insults) that they are not the same person.
Franz Gnaedinger
The rosette of eight petals offers an intruiging further
possibility as a chiffre of the omnipresence of the supreme
god TYR Sseyr Sseus Zeus if we consider that the Ice Age
people had a different understanding of space and time.
While we are thinking in dimensions, they were thinking in
places. PAS means everywhere in a plain: here, south and
north of me, east and west of me - all in all five places,
written as domino five in cave art, for example in the Brunel
chamber of Chauvet. Greek pas pan meaning all and every,
and pente penta- meaning five, are derivatives of PAS.
Inverse SAP means everywhere in space: here, south and
north of me, east and west of me, under and above me
- all in all seven places. Words for seven in many languages
are derivatives of SAP, including Hebrew sheeb. Further
derivatives are Latin sapientia meaning world wisdom
and Greek sophia meaning wisdom. Now when we go
a step further we could translate the rosette of eight petals
with a small circle in the center - first the small circle, then
pairs of opposing petals - as follows: here and now, south
and north of me, east and west of me, under and above me,
in the past and in the future - all in all nine places ...
Harlan Messinger
>> johnk follow me around forever?
>
> If you would stop invading other threads with your irrelevant crap,
> they wouldn't have to follow you.
>
> BTW it's very clear from their discourse style (and their choices of
> insults) that they are not the same person.
Are you going to keep giving them the satisfaction of knowing that
they're upsetting you forever? Are you going to keep reminding the rest
of us forever that they upset you, as though we care?
António Marques
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Jan 5, 11:30 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> me around forever?
>>
>> If you would stop invading other threads with your irrelevant crap,
>> they wouldn't have to follow you.
>>
>> BTW it's very clear from their discourse style (and their choices of
>> insults) that they are not the same person.
>
> Are you going to keep giving them the satisfaction of knowing that
> they're upsetting you forever? Are you going to keep reminding the rest
> of us forever that they upset you, as though we care?
What's more, he's taken to do it at times when the people mentioned happen
to have been silent for a while.
Peter T. Daniels
Which indicates that he likes the attention. Or maybe that he likes
the chastisement.
Franz Gnaedinger
>
> If you would stop invading other threads with your irrelevant crap,
> they wouldn't have to follow you.
>
> BTW it's very clear from their discourse style (and their choices of
> insults) that they are not the same person.
Are you now advocating stalking? johnk is far from being
the only alias of my second long-time stalker Panu Petteri
Höglund but the most aggressive one designed for hounding
me in August 2008 as I recall. My stalker claims to be an
author but he lacks imagination and is unable of creating
a variety of personae, which is why I smell him out. You,
being fixated on word language, are easily fooled by a
couple of different words, while I, perceiving more aspects
of language, am led astray only for a while.
---
On New Year's Eve I met a woman from Andalusia.
She wants for me to learn Spanish. What can I do when
she purrs in her deep and melodic voice? I learned Spanish
for the first time in the summer of 1986 by reading El Pais
but didn't use it since and have to learn it again, so I went
to a library and found a book by Isabel Allende, My pais
inventado. I enjoy it. When I read a chapter twice I understand
nearly all, without consulting a dictionary (got no Spanish
dictionary at home). Must be due to my long years of Latin.
Yesterday I came across these words: Ella ... tombaba
cerveza directo de la botella, she drank beer directly from
the bottle. Tombar means take but also for example drink,
lift out, draw, draw in, and might be akin to PIE *ten- 'pull'
*tem- 'reach, attain' *ten-p- *temp- 'stretch, pull'. The draining
of the bottle reminds me of Poseidon's mythological draining
of Thessaly by creating the vale of Tempae. German Abzugs-
graben 'draining ditch' means literally off-pull-ditch, and
Abzugskanal 'sewer, culvert' off-pull-channel. So *temp-
'stretch, pull' can explain Tempae. It can also explain tempus
'temple of the forehead' by the tension of the swollen arteries
(etymology proposed by my Latin dictionary), tempus 'time'
as stretch of time (dito), tempestas 'tempest' as a stormy
stretch of time, temperare 'moderate' as the stretch or range
of what is acceptable, temperatura as moderate 'temperature'
being neither too hot nor too cold. *temp- 'stretch, pull' and
*temp- 'cut, divide' proposed by Douglas G. Kilday lead to
a pair of different but equally well founded etymologies.
Maybe we have to delve deeper and look out for someone
who pulls and stretches and reaches and attains and cuts
and divides? This could well be the supreme god TYR,
he who overcomes in the double way of rule and give,
emphatic Middle Helladic Sseyr Doric Sseus Homeric Zeus,
god of time (Kronide and Kronion, 31 times in the Odyssey)
and of weather (piler of clouds, dark-clouded, god of flashes
and thunder, sender of favorable wind, 27 times in the Odyssey),
Roman Saturnus, founder of the golden age of Latium, from
SA TYR NOS, mind NOS of the one who overcomes in the
double sense of rule and give TYR from above SA, Etruscan
TYRSANOS, written on a round shard from the agora of Athens,
an omnipresent god, TYR PAS, overcomer TYR everywhere PAS,
possible origin of Latin tempus and other words, TYR PAS
tempes tempus tempo tiempo temps time, while German Zeit
would have followed the same model as TYR Sseyr Sseus Zeus.