Pinka-pinka

[Ross Clark]

"I've got news for him," Smiley explained cheerfully....He patted his
side pocket. "Money. Pinka-pinka. All for Otto...."
- John Le Carré, Smiley's People, ch.17

Smiley is speaking German to Germans in Germany here.
And sure enough this seems to be a German slang word for money:

"The term "Pinke" or doubled up as "Pinkepinke" derives from the
Judeo-Aramaic language: Pinka was used in Slavic languages to refer to
the "box for money paid by card-players to the innkeeper." A somewhat
archaic term, it cannot be directly translated, but just like
"cha-ching," it sounds like coins falling — hopefully in your own cash box."

https://www.dw.com/en/10-german-slang-words-for-money/g-18452117

Question (1): Is this etymology credible?

Question (2): Could there be a connection to this NZ colloquialism,
which I learned only a couple of months ago?

Pingers (also pingas): Money. (Perhaps from Danish penga 'money'.)

- Deverson & Kennedy (eds), New Zealand Oxford Dictionary (2005)

It's certainly not Maori. And Orsman hasn't got it, which suggests that
it might have been quite localized. There is a historically Danish
community in southern Hawke's Bay, so the suggested origin is not
entirely loony. It was used in the local paper, without comment, by a
journalist whose origins I don't know. My wife had only a vague
recollection of having heard it.

Opinions of experts on the languages named are earnestly solicited.

[Peter T. Daniels]

What's "the Judeo-Aramaic language"?

Some sort of euphemism for Yiddish?

Yiddish is a reasonable path for a Slavic word to enter German.

[Christian Weisgerber]

On 2022-07-31, Ross Clark <benl...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

> "The term "Pinke" or doubled up as "Pinkepinke" derives from the
> Judeo-Aramaic language: Pinka was used in Slavic languages to refer to
> the "box for money paid by card-players to the innkeeper." A somewhat
> archaic term, it cannot be directly translated, but just like
> "cha-ching," it sounds like coins falling — hopefully in your own cash box."
>
> https://www.dw.com/en/10-german-slang-words-for-money/g-18452117
>
> Question (1): Is this etymology credible?

Of unknown origin according to Pfeifer, but he nevertheless cites
an opinion that the word is connected with Rotwelsch (a thieves'
cant) "Penunse", which is securely derived from Polish pieniądze
'money'. The form "pinke" has certainly been favored by the clanging
sound of falling coins.
https://www.dwds.de/wb/etymwb/Pinke

Kluge says it's from Rotwelsch and onomatopoeic there, from the
sound of coins.

Duden's etymological dictionary thinks the word is from Rotwelsch
and connected to the dialectal verb "pinken" 'to hammer, to hit
something hard so a metalic ringing is produced', which in turn is
onomatopoeic.

Back when Helmut Kohl was German chancelor, at some point he used
the term "Bimbes" for money, which drew attention because it is
regional and not generally known. Again that's from criminal argot,
its further origin uncertain (Duden). That's another one with
i + nasal, which I'm mentioning because...

> Question (2): Could there be a connection to this NZ colloquialism,
> which I learned only a couple of months ago?
>
> Pingers (also pingas): Money. (Perhaps from Danish penga 'money'.)

Or perhaps onomatopoeic.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

[Christian Weisgerber]

On 2022-07-31, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>> "The term "Pinke" or doubled up as "Pinkepinke" derives from the
>> Judeo-Aramaic language: Pinka was used in Slavic languages to refer to
>> the "box for money paid by card-players to the innkeeper."
>

> What's "the Judeo-Aramaic language"?

"Judaeo-Aramaic languages represent a group of Hebrew-influenced
Aramaic and Neo-Aramaic languages."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Aramaic_languages

> Some sort of euphemism for Yiddish?
>
> Yiddish is a reasonable path for a Slavic word to enter German.

I was wondering as well if "Judeo-Aramaic" had somehow been substituted
for the far more plausible "Yiddish". I have no explanation how
such a textual replacement might have happened, though.

[Tim Lang]

The German version thereof: "Pinke-Pinke"

cf. a popular traditional Carnival song saying "Wer soll das
bezahlen, wer hat das bestellt? Wer hat so viel Pinke-Pinke,
wer hat so viel Geld?"

Here (1949) sung by a Cologne Carnival celebrity Jupp (Joseph)
Schmitz: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQQm7bKJskM>

On 31.07.2022 15:33, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

>On 2022-07-31, Ross Clark <benl...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

[snip]

>>Pingers (also pingas): Money. (Perhaps from Danish penga 'money'.)
>
>Or perhaps onomatopoeic.

Seemingly rather from the Slavic world (via "Rotwelsch" slangs or so)
of Eastern Europe.

Cf. p(i)enzy "money" in Sorabian (a Slavic language spoken in East
Germany), cf. Polish pieniądze > slangy German Penunze/Penunse "money."
Also cf. Lithuanian pinigų, Danish penge (as mentioned already),
Swedish pengar, Norwegian penger, Islandic peningar ... And then
cf. penny (Old Engl. pen(n)i(n)g), German Pfenni(n)g, Dutch penning,
OHG pfenning & al., allegedly deriv. from Latin pannus (some kind
of cloth, piece of textile).

And cf. Hungarian:

(A) pénz /peːnz/ - the standard word for "money".

(B) And pengő /'pæn-gøː/, the Hungarian currency 1927-1946. This pengő
was called pengov/пенгов in Serbian/Croatian, пенгыв in Ukrainian,
peng(h)eu in Romanian, пенго in Russian, pengow in Polish. The initial
(historic) usage: for silver coins.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_money_of_the_Hungarian_pengő>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_the_Hungarian_pengő>

I don't know whether pengő and pénz "money" are or are not related
etymologically to the Hungarian word penge /'pæn-gæ/ "blade" (made of
any metal). But some onomatopoeic aspect seems to be there in
Hungarian, too, since there is a verb, penget /'pæn-gæt/ "to sound as
(...)" perhaps "in a metallic way" like the blades of swords (pengék)
or so. And like chords whenever the verb refers to "finger picking" on
instruments such as guitar, banjo, violin, cello, bass.

NB: the most frequently used Hung. slang word is lóvé /'lo:-ve:/, a
Gypsy word. Whereas pénz is the standard and high-style synonym.

Tim

[wugi]

Op 31/07/2022 om 13:28 schreef Ross Clark:

> "I've got news for him," Smiley explained cheerfully....He patted his
> side pocket. "Money. Pinka-pinka. All for Otto...."
> - John Le Carré, Smiley's People, ch.17
>
> Smiley is speaking German to Germans in Germany here.
> And sure enough this seems to be a German slang word for money:
>
> "The term "Pinke" or doubled up as "Pinkepinke" derives from the
> Judeo-Aramaic language: Pinka was used in Slavic languages to refer to
> the "box for money paid by card-players to the innkeeper." A somewhat
> archaic term, it cannot be directly translated, but just like
> "cha-ching," it sounds like coins falling — hopefully in your own cash
> box."
>
> https://www.dw.com/en/10-german-slang-words-for-money/g-18452117
>
> Question (1): Is this etymology credible?

Onomatopaeic according to
https://etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/pingping1

--
guido wugi

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:30:07 AM UTC-4, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2022-07-31, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >> "The term "Pinke" or doubled up as "Pinkepinke" derives from the
> >> Judeo-Aramaic language: Pinka was used in Slavic languages to refer to
> >> the "box for money paid by card-players to the innkeeper."
> >
> > What's "the Judeo-Aramaic language"?
>
> "Judaeo-Aramaic languages represent a group of Hebrew-influenced
> Aramaic and Neo-Aramaic languages."

Sheer nonsense.

There are two classical Jewish Aramaic languages, those of the
Palestinian and Babylonian Talmuds (West and East Aramaic
respectively), and Samaritan Aramaic.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Aramaic_languages

That's a general listing of Jewish Aramaic languages. Not one
of the references uses a term "Judeo-Aramaic."

> > Some sort of euphemism for Yiddish?
> > Yiddish is a reasonable path for a Slavic word to enter German.
>
> I was wondering as well if "Judeo-Aramaic" had somehow been substituted
> for the far more plausible "Yiddish". I have no explanation how
> such a textual replacement might have happened, though.

Residual antisemitism. Don't mention anything connected with
the Jews of Germany.

[Christian Weisgerber]

Nonsense. If anything, you'd have to postulate the opposite: an
attempt to bend over backwards to avoid even the most farfetched
semblance of antisemitism. However, "Jiddisch" is not an encumbered
word and I'm not aware of a German cognate to the English slur "yid"
or any other adjacent problematic word.

My best guess would be that somebody picked the wrong item from a
spellchecker completion menu. I mean, it's a press article. *shrug*

[Daud Deden]

On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 7:28:22 AM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:

> "I've got news for him," Smiley explained cheerfully....He patted his
> side pocket. "Money. Pinka-pinka. All for Otto...."
> - John Le Carré, Smiley's People, ch.17
>
> Smiley is speaking German to Germans in Germany here.
> And sure enough this seems to be a German slang word for money:
>
> "The term "Pinke" or doubled up as "Pinkepinke" derives from the
> Judeo-Aramaic language: Pinka was used in Slavic languages to refer to
> the "box for money paid by card-players to the innkeeper." A somewhat
> archaic term, it cannot be directly translated, but just like
> "cha-ching," it sounds like coins falling — hopefully in your own cash box."

From my college days, our International (students) Club had an annual dinner fest, one of the show performances was a Malaysian Chinese group that ( composed and?) sang a song about the sweet sound of money, entitled "Chin chin chin chin chin", which I think equalled "ka-ching" x 5. Not sure if Hokkien, Cantonese or Mandarin.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 5:30:07 PM UTC-4, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2022-07-31, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >> I was wondering as well if "Judeo-Aramaic" had somehow been substituted
> >> for the far more plausible "Yiddish". I have no explanation how
> >> such a textual replacement might have happened, though.
> > Residual antisemitism. Don't mention anything connected with
> > the Jews of Germany.
>
> Nonsense. If anything, you'd have to postulate the opposite: an
> attempt to bend over backwards to avoid even the most farfetched
> semblance of antisemitism. However, "Jiddisch" is not an encumbered
> word and I'm not aware of a German cognate to the English slur "yid"
> or any other adjacent problematic word.

They "protect" you from Holocaust images? The German equivalent
is "Jude!"

> My best guess would be that somebody picked the wrong item from a
> spellchecker completion menu. I mean, it's a press article. *shrug*

"dw.com"? They ought to know better.