German "Guten Appetit" and "Mahlzeit"
Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim
French ,,bon appétit". Apart from what the waiters might say
"enjoy your meal" you can dig in without any pre-eating ceremony.
The German word "Appetit" is again of Romance origin and the English
(upper class) sometimes might use the term "bon appétit" which
shows the non-existence of this tradition in Germanic culture (I am not
aware of the North Germanic languages Like Norwegian, Danish and
Swedish although there are a lot ways of saying: thanks for a wonderful
meal. Nowegian: takk for maten: thanks for the meal). Is there really
no eating culture as in France apart from the "help yourself"
despite the adoption of French words and traditions?
In some parts of Germany beginning from 11 am to 3 pm (the time when
people can have lunch break) you are simply bombarded (say in a German
company or open-plan office) by an odd expression called
"Mahlzeit" "literllay "meal time". This funny word coined by
putting the two words "Mahl" meal and "Zeit" time together can
have a variety of meanings: it can be used for greeting like : hello
/hi but only within the time period mentioned above. It can also refer
to a snack like "eine kleine Mahlzeit" or "na dann prost Mahlzeit
"well that's just brilliant iron / nice prospects indeed".
What's the story behind this annoying tradition?
Regards
Jamshid
Lukas Pietsch
>
> In some parts of Germany beginning from 11 am to 3 pm (the time when
> people can have lunch break) you are simply bombarded (say in a German
> company or open-plan office) by an odd expression called
> "Mahlzeit" "literllay "meal time". This funny word coined by
> putting the two words "Mahl" meal and "Zeit" time together
Nothing funny about it. "Mahlzeit", on its own, simply means "meal" (not
just a snack, just any kind of meal). The standalone noun "Mahl" means
the same, but is slightly archaic.
> can have a variety of meanings: it can be used for greeting like : hello
> /hi but only within the time period mentioned above. It can also refer
> to a snack like "eine kleine Mahlzeit" or "na dann prost Mahlzeit
> "well that's just brilliant iron / nice prospects indeed".
"Mahlzeit", as a greeting, is obviously a shortened form of "gesegnete
Mahlzeit" ('may the meal be blessed'), which is basically just an older
alternative of what you say at the beginning of a meal. Originally a
religious blessing, of course. The use of the shortened form is now
conventional (and has no religious connotations any longer) in work
environments, as a greeting in situations where one or the other of the
participants is assumed to be either just about to go for lunch, or to
be returning from it.
The other expression, "prost Mahlzeit", is originally just a
half-latinate version of the same religious blessing. Today often used
ironically, as you note.
Lukas
Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim
Yes, Lukas I agree but the practices are odd. Meeting in a restroom and
saying Mahlzeit is not that appetizing
Wugi
> >
> > In some parts of Germany beginning from 11 am to 3 pm (the time when
> > people can have lunch break) you are simply bombarded (say in a German
> > company or open-plan office) by an odd expression called
> > "Mahlzeit" "literllay "meal time". This funny word coined by
> > putting the two words "Mahl" meal and "Zeit" time together
>
> Nothing funny about it. "Mahlzeit", on its own, simply means "meal" (not
> just a snack, just any kind of meal). The standalone noun "Mahl" means
> the same, but is slightly archaic.
Same in Dutch with "het maal" and "de maaltijd".
(None of the greeting stuff though)
Wugi
> In English there is no word for the German ,,guten Appetit"or the
French ,,bon appétit". Apart from what the waiters might say
"enjoy your meal" you can dig in without any pre-eating ceremony.
The German word "Appetit" is again of Romance origin and the English
(upper class) sometimes might use the term "bon appétit" which
shows the non-existence of this tradition in Germanic culture (I am not
aware of the North Germanic languages Like Norwegian, Danish and
Swedish although there are a lot ways of saying: thanks for a wonderful
meal. Nowegian: takk for maten: thanks for the meal). Is there really
no eating culture as in France apart from the "help yourself"
despite the adoption of French words and traditions?
wugi:
In Dutch we have a germanic word all right: "Smakelijk!" or "Eet smakelijk!"
('(eat) with gusto').
At some time we (I and some friends) had actually fun trying to introduce it
with occasional German friends/hosts, in a 'Deutch' mix:
"Schmecklich!"
(the other would respond with "Vons gleichen!" echoing Flemish "vans
gelijken", Dutch "insgelijks": equally, the same).
But our German hosts didn't pick up the pointe, worse, at one occasion
they'd understood "schmeckt nicht"...
(My uncle tried something similar in France, with "Le café est clair" < "de
koffie is klaar", coffee is ready. His professional surroundings picked it
up:-)
As for toasting, when in Dutch we may use romance "Santé!" (F) or "proost"
(L. prosit), we use as well "gezondheid!". You can argue though that this is
a loan translation from romance "santé".
"Smakelijk" however stands by its germanic feet. If needs be the English
might borrow "smackly!" to make their mealtide smack of something tasty;-)
pikatxu
from http://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/bonappetit.htm
German Guten Appetit! Mahlzeit! En Guete! (Swiss German)
Luxembourgish Gudden Appetit!
Norwegian Vær så god!
Swedish Smaklig måltid!
Danish Velbekomme!
Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim
As soon as we come to drinking the situation changes completely. nearly
all language have sth to say: skal for denne. (Nowegian national
anthym).
Peter T. Daniels
> As for toasting, when in Dutch we may use romance "Santé!" (F) or "proost"
> (L. prosit), we use as well "gezondheid!". You can argue though that this is
> a loan translation from romance "santé".
"Gesundheit" is one of many things you can say in English to a sneezer,
so it wouldn't be appreciated!
> "Smakelijk" however stands by its germanic feet. If needs be the English
> might borrow "smackly!" to make their mealtide smack of something tasty;-)
Unfortunately, Eng. "smacks of" always introduces something unpleasant.
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Lee Sau Dan
Wugi> In Dutch we have a germanic word all right: "Smakelijk!" or
Wugi> "Eet smakelijk!" ('(eat) with gusto'). At some time we (I
Wugi> and some friends) had actually fun trying to introduce it
Wugi> with occasional German friends/hosts, in a 'Deutch' mix:
Wugi> "Schmecklich!" (the other would respond with "Vons
Wugi> gleichen!" echoing Flemish "vans gelijken", Dutch
Wugi> "insgelijks": equally, the same).
Why not use the more native German expressions "Gleichfalls!" or
"Ebenfalls!"?
--
Lee Sau Dan 李守敦 ~{@nJX6X~}
E-mail: dan...@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee
Miguel Carrasquer
<dan...@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:
>>>>>> "Wugi" == Wugi <guido...@planetbrol.spam> writes:
>
> Wugi> In Dutch we have a germanic word all right: "Smakelijk!" or
> Wugi> "Eet smakelijk!" ('(eat) with gusto'). At some time we (I
> Wugi> and some friends) had actually fun trying to introduce it
> Wugi> with occasional German friends/hosts, in a 'Deutch' mix:
> Wugi> "Schmecklich!" (the other would respond with "Vons
> Wugi> gleichen!" echoing Flemish "vans gelijken", Dutch
> Wugi> "insgelijks": equally, the same).
>
>Why not use the more native German expressions "Gleichfalls!" or
>"Ebenfalls!"?
Because they might not be recognised as joke-German.
=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
m...@wxs.nl
Dik T. Winter
> In English there is no word for the German ,,guten Appetit"or the
> "enjoy your meal" you can dig in without any pre-eating ceremony.
> The German word "Appetit" is again of Romance origin and the English
> shows the non-existence of this tradition in Germanic culture (I am not
> aware of the North Germanic languages Like Norwegian, Danish and
> Swedish although there are a lot ways of saying: thanks for a wonderful
> meal. Nowegian: takk for maten: thanks for the meal). Is there really
> no eating culture as in France apart from the "help yourself"
> despite the adoption of French words and traditions?
In Dutch the common term in those cases is "smakelijk eten". Nothing
about an adoption of French words or traditions.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
Colin Fine
And nearly always figurative (i.e. not literally to do with the sense of
taste.
Actually I think there's one usage which is not always disapproving: if
we say 'there is a smack of ... ' about something, I think that can be
positive as well as negative.
Colin
Colin Fine
Vær så god! may well be used in that context, but it is not restricted
to it as the other expressions are. I suspect the same is true of
Velbekomme.
Colin
Torsten Poulin
> pikatxu wrote:
>> from http://www.omniglot.com/language/phrases/bonappetit.htm
>>
>> German Guten Appetit! Mahlzeit! En Guete! (Swiss German)
>> Luxembourgish Gudden Appetit!
>> Norwegian Vær så god!
>> Swedish Smaklig måltid!
>> Danish Velbekomme!
> Vær så god! may well be used in that context, but it is not restricted
> to it as the other expressions are.
Indeed. The contracted form "værsgo" is more common, by the way. The latter
can also be used as an amplifier: "Vil du værsgo spise op!"
> I suspect the same is true of Velbekomme.
It could be used by somebody waiting on you just after serving your food. It
is also commonly used after the meal as the reply to "tak for mad" and when
you arrive at a table where people are already eating. You could also use
it as an ironic exclamation about something unenviable (not necessarily
food related).
--
Torsten
Peter T. Daniels
I think we don't say that over here (more aberrance?). A smack is a slap
or spank.
Wugi
> >
> > Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > Wugi wrote:
> > >
> > >>"Smakelijk" however stands by its germanic feet. If needs be the
English
> > >>might borrow "smackly!" to make their mealtide smack of something
tasty;-)
> > >
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, Eng. "smacks of" always introduces something
unpleasant.
There you are, words may shift meanings and even become their opposite.
(E. slim; D. slim: smart (D. smart: grief); G. schlimm: bad...)
But that's the point. "Smackly" could become a tasty hit, for unknown
reasons.
(given a little help:-)
> > And nearly always figurative (i.e. not literally to do with the sense of
> > taste.
> >
> > Actually I think there's one usage which is not always disapproving: if
> > we say 'there is a smack of ... ' about something, I think that can be
> > positive as well as negative.
>
> I think we don't say that over here (more aberrance?). A smack is a slap
> or spank.
That's another 'smack' altogether.
D. de smaak, smaken: the taste, to taste
D. de smak, smakken: that slap you said, to make a slapping sound.
Een smak geld, een bom duiten (a slap of money, a bomb of doits/farthings) :
a whole lota money, admittedly a tasty bit but of onomatopoeic make.
transam
You are just a little primitive hater of everthing human and positive.
A racist of the worst kind. Your letters are full of dirt and
abnormality.
no regards, e.
Colin Fine
Here too. But the meaning I gave, while not common, certainly exists.
Perhaps it's a bit literary: "There was a smack of the nautical about him".
Colin
Richard Herring
<ne...@kindness.demon.co.uk> writes
Oh, a _fishing_ smack.
(There's still a building in Ramsgate which proclaims itself to be the
Smack Boys' Home ;-)
--
Richard Herring
ranjit_...@yahoo.com
Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim wrote:
> In English there is no word for the German ,,guten Appetit"or the
> French ,,bon appétit".
You can use the French term in English.
Colin Fine
it in Britain, or AFAIK in other English-speaking cultures.
Colin
Dik T. Winter
...
> > You can use the French term in English.
> >
> If you need a term, that's what you do. But there's no custom of saying
> it in Britain, or AFAIK in other English-speaking cultures.
I just remembered. When dining together in a restaurant there are differences
between (at least) German and Dutch usage. In the Netherlands everybody gets
his meal at approximately the same time (even when ordering is 'a la carte'),
so it is customary to wait with eating until everybody has been served, and
from there a common term to signal the start comes in quite natural. The
times I have been to dinners in German restaurants, the meals for the
various guests came at (sometimes widely) differing time, so everybody
started to eat as soon as his/her meal was served, and there was no common
start.
Peter T. Daniels
Julia Child said it at the end of every "French Chef" program, thus
popularizing it in the US from the early 1960s; I gather she wasn't seen
in the UK?
(If she had been, you might not have needed that cooking series that
began with instruction in how to boil water.)
Richard Herring
<gram...@worldnet.att.net> writes
We had Fanny Cradock. When boiling water was needed, she told Johnnie to
boil the water.
(And as I'm sure you realise, it's not a matter of whether or not you
show cookery on TV, but how you get the non-cooks to watch and learn.)
--
Richard Herring
Peter T. Daniels
But _everyone_ loved Julia Child, regardless of whether they ever
intended to pick up so much as a paring knife!
Joachim Pense
> In article <dm2ucc$gvl$3$8302...@news.demon.co.uk> Colin Fine <ne...@kindness.demon.co.uk> writes:
> ...
> > > You can use the French term in English.
> > >
> > If you need a term, that's what you do. But there's no custom of saying
> > it in Britain, or AFAIK in other English-speaking cultures.
>
> I just remembered. When dining together in a restaurant there are differences
> between (at least) German and Dutch usage. In the Netherlands everybody gets
> his meal at approximately the same time (even when ordering is 'a la carte'),
> so it is customary to wait with eating until everybody has been served, and
> from there a common term to signal the start comes in quite natural. The
> times I have been to dinners in German restaurants, the meals for the
> various guests came at (sometimes widely) differing time, so everybody
> started to eat as soon as his/her meal was served, and there was no common
> start.
In German it is customary to wait as well. But as many restaurants in
Germany just don't manage to serve the meals at the same time (in
particular the cheaper restaurants), it is customary for the one who gets
served first to be politely invited by the others to start so his meal
doesn't get cold. But it is considered bad manners just to start without
being invited to.
I have heard that it is usual for the French for each individual to start
without waiting when the meal is served, but there this less chance for
that situation to happen in French restaurants.
Joachim
Dik T. Winter
> Am Thu, 24 Nov 2005 04:31:50 GMT schrieb Dik T. Winter:
> > I just remembered. When dining together in a restaurant there are
> > differences between (at least) German and Dutch usage.
> In German it is customary to wait as well. But as many restaurants in
> Germany just don't manage to serve the meals at the same time (in
> particular the cheaper restaurants), it is customary for the one who gets
> served first to be politely invited by the others to start so his meal
> doesn't get cold. But it is considered bad manners just to start without
> being invited to.
The restaurant I had this experience was a pretty expensive restaurant in
the neighbourhood of Karlsruhe. We were with (I think) 14 to 20 persons.