Magdalenian experiment (year seven, continuation)

[Franz Gnaedinger]

My previous Magdalenian threads:

Lascaux, a lunisolar calendar
(early 2005 - early 2006)
www.seshat.ch/home/lascaux.htm

what is etymology? (linguistics and biology)
subtitle
Magdalenian words and compounds 2006/7
(January 23, 2006, till October 3, 2008)
www.seshat.ch/home/lascaux2.htm
(Magdalenian dictionary)

Magdalenian experiment (continuation)
(October 7, 2008, till February 2011)
www.seshat.ch/home/lascaux3.htm
www.seshat.ch/home/lascaux4.htm
www.seshat.ch/home/lascaux5.htm

Magdalenian experiment (year seven)
(February 24, 2011, till September 12, 2011)

Meanwhile there are four Magdalenian test cases:

1) bear as the furry one - provider of the best fur,
thick, longhaired, soft and warm - versus bear
as the brown one

2) deus theos / Zeus versus deus Zeus / theos
- deus and theos derive from Magdalenian DhAG
meaning able, good in the sense of able, a word
of very many derivatives, while Zeus derives from
TYR meaning overcomer, as verb to overcome
in the double sense of rule and give, Magdalenian
TYR emphatic Middle Helladic Sseyr (Phaistos
Disc, Derk Ohlenroth) Doric Sseus (Wilhelm
Larfeld) Homeric Zeus. DhAG and TYR are
to some extent interchangeable, but they should
not be nivellated

3) PAC AS and PAC AS AS and AS PAC and
PAC SA and AC PAS versus *h1ekwos 'horse'

upward AS horse PAC, emphatic horse up up
PAC AS AS Pegasos Pegasus, personfying the
summer wind Afghanetz, blowing from the Aral
Sea along the Amu Darya to the Hindu Kush

AS PAC became Avestan aspa 'horse' and
Sanskrit asva 'horse', AS PAC aspa asva

horse PAC downward SA is present in the
Indo-Aryan name of the Amu Darya, Vaksu,
surviving in the name of the Vakhsh, the
increasing river, swelling with melting snow
and glaciers in summer, increasing by a factor
of ten or more, symbolized by a herd of horses
running down a valley, PAC SA Vaksu Vakhsh

AC PAS, an expanse of land with water AC
everywhere in a plain PAS, here south and north
of me, east and west of me, all in all five places,
Greek pas pan 'all, every' pente penta- 'five'
- riding this animal you can get everywhere PAS
on earth AC ... AC PAS accounts for *h1ekwos
Greek hippos Latin equus and for the name of
the Gallo-Roman horse goddess Epona who
was an alter ego of REO Rheia Rhea (one of her
main places of worship was Alesia at the base
of Mont Réa near a source of the river Seine,
Epona rode a horse in lady fashion, accompanied
by a bird, a foal, and a dog, evoking the animals
of the sons of Rhea, the eagle of Zeus, the horse
of Poseidon, and the dog of Hades)

PIE derives not only hippos and equus from
*h1ekwos but also Avestan aspa and Sanskrit
asva. Magdalenian discerns between AS PAC
aspa asva and AC PAS hippos equus Epona.
AS PAC and AC PAS are phonetically close
but semantically completely different

4) The first Indo-European homeland were the
banks of the Amu Darya, the second IE homeland
were the Uralic steppes east of the Volga, ancient
name Rha, from REO, and the third IE homeland
were the Pontic steppes west of the Volga / Rha.
The river goddess REO Rheia Rhea was present
in the Amu Darya and in the Rha, ancient Volga.
Her sons were TYR Sseyr Sseus Zeus, ruler of
the first IE homeland on the banks of the Amu
Darya, Poseidon, originally the god of rivers,
and Hades, personifying the gold and copper-tin
mines in the Alai mountains, along the Vakhsh,
his dog guarding the precious ores

In my previous thread (which was deliberately bloated
and ruined by several members of sci.lang who were
neither willing nor able to go for my above test cases)
I prepared a story of the first Indo-Europen homeland
on the banks of the Amu Darya. Telling this story
along the arrow of time will be the aim of my new
Magdalenian thread.

[António Marques]

Franz Gnaedinger wrote (13-09-2011 06:49):
> Lascaux, a lunisolar calendar

I liked this one.

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

In Irish, the regular verb of the first declension has the following
forms in the future tense:

First conjugation: one-syllable stems, stems ending in -áil:

dúnfaidh mé/dúnfad "I will close, shut"
dúnfaidh tú/dúnfair "thou wilt close, shut"
dúnfaidh sé "he will close, shut"
dúnfaidh muid/dúnfaimid/dúnfam "we will close, shut"
dúnfaidh sibh "y'all will close, shut"
dúnfaidh siad/dúnfaid "they will close, shut"
dúnfar "one will close, shut"

The synthetic forms dúnfad, dúnfair, dúnfam, dúnfaid are almost
completely confined to Munster Irish. The difference between dúnfaidh
muid and dúnfaimid is almost entirely orthographical - "muid" is
basically the present ending that has drifted into future
conjugations, but also come to be perceived as a pronoun. (Dúnfam is
the historically correct "we" form.)
The -f- is practically a [h] sound, except in the form dúnfar, where
it is usually a clear [f] sound.
When the form dúnfaid is used, the third person plural pronoun is
often pleonastically added: dúnfaid siad.

More first conjugation verbs:

ceilfidh mé/ceilfead "I will conceal"
ceilfidh tú/ceilfir
ceilfidh sé
ceilfidh muid/ceilfimid/ceilfeam
ceilfidh sibh
ceilfidh siad/ceilfid
ceilfear

sábhálfaidh mé/sábhalfad "I will save"
sábhálfaidh tú/sábhálfair
sábhálfaidh sé
sábhálfaidh muid/sábhálfaimid/sábhálfam
sábhálfaidh sibh
sábhálfaidh siad/sábhálfaid
sábhálfar

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

On 13 Sep, 08:49, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> My previous Magdalenian threads:
>

I first read this as "precious", and had a vision of Gollum.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

I just can't work in peace!

stalking on Usenet (Panu Petteri Höglund)

My first longtime online stalker Marie Jean Faucounau
alias grapheus (alias Rosemary) followed me around
from 2001 till June 2005 (when I left his expensive
lawyer no other option than to silence him). But my
peace didn't last long. In the early spring of 2006
I was attacked out of the blue by what became my
second longtime online stalker: Panu Petteri Höglund
alias John Bulkington alias Patrick Karl alias craoibhin66
alias he himself as his own good friend and pupil Sean
Connor soconn1 alias he himself as his own brother in
arms and stalking aide John Hobart Kyle jhobartkyle
johnk alias he himself as his own bride Annina Kaartinen
alias a Rumanian professor who claims to have
discovered the origin of language alias he himself as
his own bride Maria Kupari alias esperanto doctoro
alias John Karl alias Scott Turner (who claimed to be
my first stalker posting from the beyond) alias some
metastases of the craoibhin alias, videlicet Pantokrator
'ruler of everything', Zurga Elphastor, Callous Killer,
Der psychopathische Entdärmer 'the psychopathic
eviscerator', and some Irish names, most frequently
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta, furthermore Joe Jabrone,
and The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow
Army ('shadow army' being one of my terms for his
many aliases). Here is what he wrote as Panu in my
thread "Google company: sci.lang is flooded with porn
and other ads" on July 10, 2010, 7:39 and 7:44 a.m.:

I have lots of ideas what I could do if I had you
and a good long sharp knife. However, because
of unjust laws I can't put my ideas into practice.

And when I say "unjust laws" I mean the very
deplorable fact that legally, Franz is still a human
being with rights, and I can't slaughter him without
being condemned as a murderer. But I hate him
so much that I find it very difficult to see him
as a fellow human being.

Panu Petteri Höglund can feel himself and be
someone only in the act of aggression. He never
established a positive identity on Usenet. Before
he began attacking me out of the blue in early
2006 he posted ugly messages to soc.men,
attacking women. He attended three universities,
apparently to no avail. He got a burning ambition
but no ideas and nothing to say beyond a little
textbook half-knowledge. Years ago he wrote
that he is fascinated by the various grammars,
but he never opened a grammar thread. He brags
to speak better Irish than 99 per cent of the Irish,
but he can't start and maintain an Irish thread,
instead he drops Irish-for-beginners titbits into
my Magdalenian thread, for the sole purpose of
molesting and harassing me and disrupting my work.

Experts on stalking say that a narcissistic stalker
is best ignored while an aggressive stalker must be
fought hard, in a decided manner. I do it by exposing
their ways, by working double as much, by insisting
on my qualities and abilities - wealth in ideas,
intuition and apperception own to a well organized
knowledge (as opposed to a nonfunctional textbook
half-knowledge), originality and courage -, and by
showing others how they can develop the same
qualities and abilities.

If you happen to be a victim of online mobbing and
stalking: your adversaries crave something precious
about you. Find out what it is, and share it with
worthy people.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

On 13 Sep, 21:18, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> I just can't work in peace!

Yes, you can. Just leave this group. You can rest assured I, or anyone
else in this group. won't follow you wherever you go. Besides, this is
not your workplace.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 13, 2:18 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> I just can't work in peace!

How do "stalkers" prevent you from typing as much as you want?

[Franz Gnaedinger]

What hinders my second longtime online stalker
from opening an Irish thread? His barren mind,
he can't maintain a thread of his own, aggression
is his only way of being someone and feeling alive.

A good novel tells a story, a bad novel piles claim
on claim in flashbacks. Rendering a historical
hypothesis in the form of a story, told along the
arrow of time, has the advantage of revealing gaps
and implausibilities. While preparing my story of
the first Indo-European homeland on the banks
of the Amu Darya, I realized that my identification
of Medusa can't be quite correct, 'Perseus' didn't
help the farmers on the ancient mouthing of the
Amu Darya into the Aral Sea cope with their river,
he must have helped them cope with the Aral Sea.
In the late 1990s I identified the three Gorgo sisters
as the Black Sea and Caspian Sea and Aral Sea,
equating the latter with Medusa of the snake hairs.
What can these snakes be? Yesterday, while still
looking after a beautiful flat on the river, I watched
a tv documentary on fish in the Caspian Sea
and saw pictures of natural channels in marshes
along the shore. Well, these could have been
the 'hairs' of Medusa, the Aral Sea and the former
marshes with natural channels along the shore,
leading brackish water, and perhaps infested with
snakes. The salt of the brackish water must have
been a problem for the early farmers, and 'Perseus'
helped them dividing the irrigation system fed by
the Amu Darya from the channels in the marshes
fed by the saline water of the Aral Sea. Perseus
beheaded Medusa, and everybody who saw her
head became stone. The wife of Lot in the Bible
became a salt pillar, which led me to the role of
brackish water in the case of Medusa and the
Aral Sea. I will have to study the Paleo-limnology
of the area some more, the changing level of the
Aral Sea, the shifting course of the Amu Darya.
Or then I could tell my story in such a way that
it will allow one day to precisely locate the real,
historical 'Perseus' in time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Just found an interesting blog:

"Karakalpakstan: A Hidden Gem of a Land"

Quote:

Kuttimuratov was driving near the Amu Darya River
with friends when he saw a piece of large driftwood:
"That is her, that's the Amu Darya." The medusa-like
hair adds to the face he carved, as indeed just north
of Nukus, the Amu Darya's delta slithers like snakes
into the Aral Sea. That is until the Soviet Union began
growing cotton in vastly unsustainable quantities in
the desert, sucking the life from the Amu Darya and
shrinking the Aral Sea until it became too saline to
support its native fish.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

[yangg]

***

He's just a failure, an incompetent jerk and a social reject craving
for some repair in his shattered narcissism.

A.

[yangg]

On Sep 14, 10:16 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> What hinders my second longtime online stalker
> from opening an Irish thread? His barren mind,
> he can't maintain a thread of his own, aggression
> is his only way of being someone and feeling alive.
>

***

How many times must you be repeated that this is not your own thread,
you retard?

A.

[yangg]

On Sep 13, 8:18 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> Experts on stalking say that a narcissistic stalker
> is best ignored while an aggressive stalker must be
> fought hard, in a decided manner. I do it by exposing
> their ways, by working double as much, by insisting
> on my qualities and abilities - wealth in ideas,
> intuition and apperception own to a well organized
> knowledge

***

Howlz

A.
***

(as opposed to a nonfunctional textbook
> half-knowledge), originality and courage -, and by
> showing others how they can develop the same
> qualities and abilities.
>
> If you happen to be a victim of online mobbing and
> stalking: your adversaries crave something precious
> about you. Find out what it is, and share it with
> worthy people.
>

***

All these idiocies only exist within the borders of your sick mind.

A.


[gaggithaler crap deleted]

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Arnaud Fournet of the anal vocabulary considers himself
the new PIE hero, but when he saw what I am doing
he realized that he just stretches the comparative method
some more, whereas my approach to early language is
really new, and most fertile, opening windows on the past,
and this realization turned him into my third online stalker,
another stalker of the aggressive sort - he can't help
smearing his dirt on my wall.

Medusa identified

Who was Medusa? Visual representations from the sixth
century BC make me conclude that she personified the
sea threatening the shore, especially the farmers on
a river delta - such a strong menace that if you can cope
with her you can use her image to ward off enemies:
we overcame the horrible Medusa and will also overcome
you, so don't even dare think about attacking us ...
Medusa became an apotropaic charm. Originally she
would have personified the Aral Sea threatening the
dwellers and farmers on the ancient mouthing of the
Amu Darya by expanding the marshes, lapping their
fields, undermining the ground with wind driven waves,
digging new channels into the arable soil, perhaps
infesting the irrigation channels with water snakes,
also invading the fresh water with brackish water.
A fragment of an ivory relief from the shrine of Hera
(National Museum, Athens) presents the classical
scene of Athene protecting Perseus who beheads
Medusa with a harpe, a long sword ending in the
curve of a sickle. Medusa is a winged maiden
wearing a robe decorated with a pattern that evoke
fish scales. Her big round head shows a wide mouth
frozen in an ugly grin, inside two long rows of small
teeth, in the middle the protruding tongue, her
strangely carved flat nose reminds of a double eddy
(an almost scientific rendition of a heavier liquid
spreading in a lighter one, for example a drop of
milk in a glass of water, but here the symbol of
brackish water invading fresh water), her skull
framed by coiling snakes. A metope from temple C
at Selinus (Museo Nazionale, Palermo) shows
basically the same scene, but Medusa holds
a small horse (Pegasus), her big nose appears
in a normal shape while her protruding tongue
is flanked by a pair of tusks, referring to a boar,
the animal known for uprooting fields and gardens.
Medusa's head appears also on the obverse of
a coin from Athens (Louvre, Paris), her protruding
tongue again flanked by a pair of tusks, her wrinkled
nose clearly suggesting a front of waves. And the
harpe of Perseus? would have been a dam
separating the marshes from the fields, the sea
from the irrigation system of the Amu Darya on
the river delta, perhaps a series of shorter dams
protecting an elaborate irrigation system including
fish ponds. And over the dams the summer wind
Afghanetz would have blown, personified by the
winged horse PAC AS, horse PAC upward AS,
emphatic PAC AS AS Pegasos Pegasus, horse
up up, flying from the Aral Sea along the Amu Darya
to the Hindu Kush, upward to the mountains ...

Next time: Chrysaor, brother of Pegasus, and
Danae, mother of Perseus

----------------------------------------------------------------

[yangg]

On Sep 15, 9:30 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> Arnaud Fournet of the anal vocabulary considers himself
> the new PIE hero, but when he saw what I am doing
> he realized that he just stretches the comparative method
> some more, whereas my approach to early language is
> really new, and most fertile, opening windows on the past,

***

There's nothing new or fertile in your "approach".

Basically all your insane inventions do not even reach the pre-
linguistic and pre-scientific level of Cratylos.

You have no competence(s), nor talent(s) and it just shows.

A.
***

> and this realization turned him into my third online stalker,
> another stalker of the aggressive sort - he can't help
> smearing his dirt on my wall.
>
> Medusa identified
>

***

[gaggithaler crap deleted]

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Arnaud Fournet of the anal vocabulary considers himself
the new PIE hero, but when he saw what I am doing
he realized that he just stretches the comparative method
some more, whereas my approach to early language is
really new, and most fertile, opening windows on the past,
and this realization turned him into my third online stalker,
another stalker of the aggressive sort - he can't help

smearing his dirt on my wall. / Arnaud Fournet alias yangg
popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with an
unprecedented outburst of faecal language. A sane person
wouldn't join a scientific forum that way.

Chrysaor, Danae

Perseus beheading Medusa released not only Pegasus
but also the giant Chrysaor whose name combines
chrysos 'gold' and aor 'sword', he of the golden sword,
but may, on an earlier level, have combined chrysos
'gold' and sao 'to sieve' - Chrysaor the gold washer.
Chrysaor as giant would have represented the Alai
Mountains of the early gold washers. He was also seen
as a winged boar, going along with a soldier, but also,
on the hypothetical early level, with a mythological
heightening of the early gold washers, flying on his
wings from the Aral Sea to the Alai Mountains, digging
for gold in the river bed with his tusks ...

Danae, emprisoned in a cave, had a shower of gold
raining down on her lap, the semen of Zeus which
got her pregnat and made her give birth to Perseus.
Here we have the gold again, perhaps gold dust and
nuggets found in the earth when the first irrigation
channels were dug on the ancient river delta of the
Amu Darya? More gold would have been found when
the historical Perseus returned from Lake Sistan
and built a dam between the marshes along the
southern shore of the Aral Sea and the Amu Darya,
together with an elaborate irrigation system including
fish ponds. On the early level of the Perseus legend,
he would then have joined the gold washers along
the Vakhsh and secured them against floods and
river tsunamis caused by failing landslide dams
with barrages built of poles, and by initiating an
alarm system, a chain of observation posts along
the river, each warning the next with horn signals
by day and fires by night, also with gold mirrors
reflecting the sun, the mirrors decorated with the
head of Medusa ...

Next time: Cronus and Rhea

PS to my previous message. I found the three images
of Medusa in Greek Mythology by John Pinsent.
Two of them are online. Google in the sector Images
for medusa samos and medusa selinus

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Cronus and Rhea and their children

The titans would originally have been associated
with the Alai Mountains, the Pamir, the Hindu Kush,
and perhaps the Karakorum. Their leader was
Cronus, while his wife Rhea presided over the
Amu Darya. Rhea bore Cronus a number of children,
but he, fearing to be dethroned by a son, as foretold
by an oracle, swallowed them all. When Rhea was
pregnant with Zeus, she fooled Cronus, gave him
a stone to swallow, fled, and hid in a cave. Originally,
she may have fled from the mountains of Central
Asia to the Aral Sea, where she gave birth to Zeus.
Her original name was REO meaning river, while
his original name was TYR meaning overcomer,

as verb to overcome in the double sense of rule

and give - Magdalenian TYR emphatic Middle

Helladic Sseyr (Phaistos Disc, Derk Ohlenroth)
Doric Sseus (Wilhelm Larfeld) Homeric Zeus.

TYR was raised on the ancient mouthing of the
Amu Darya into the Aral Sea, and then ruled what
is now called the Lowland of Turan, Tur- perhaps
being an echo of TYR (possible derivatives of TYR
abound in Central Asia). Cronus had swallowed
his other children - meaning they disappeared
in the many river valleys in the mountains, where
they dwelled hidden from each other, leading
separate lives. Gaia the Earth shook up her son
Cronus and thus made him give back his children
- about one hundred earthquakes per annum
occur along the Vakhsh, an exceptionally strong
earthquake might have shaken the Pamir and
caused many dwellers of the river valleys leave
the mountains for the plain below, while TYR
Sseyr Sseus Zeus wandered upward AS,
together TYR AS, perhaps accounting for Tiras
in the Bible. The river children met somewhere
in the middle of the waterways and founded
a political union they established in the ensuing
battle of the titans, dethroning Cronus, as had
been foretold by the oracle. TYR Sseyr Sseus
Zeus ruled the first Indo-European homeland
from the Lowland of Turan to the Tirich Mir on top
of the Hindu Kush. REO Rhea, fearing the wrath
of her husband, may have left her river and fled
to the Volga whose ancient name was Rha.
Poseidon took over the abandoned Amu Darya.
And Hades presided over the ancient mines
along the Vakhsh, rich in gold and copper-tin.

Next time: Prometheus and the centaurs

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[yangg]

On Sep 17, 9:47 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> Cronus and Rhea and their children
>

***

You are basically a multiple failure.

You failed to become a seminarist,
you failed to become a mathematician,
you failed to become a scholar,
you failed to become a researcher,
you failed to become a linguist

if you had some talent, you might try to become some esoteric guru.

but the fact is you are just a failure on all counts, a buffoonesque
jerk and a social reject.

You try to parade as a linguist, erroneously thinking that your
incompetence and stupidity would be less glaringly apparent in that
field,
but you are just a failure in linguistics as in everywhere else.

A.

[outpour of gaggithaler crap deleted]

***

[yangg]

On Sep 16, 9:33 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> Arnaud Fournet of the anal vocabulary considers himself
> the new PIE hero, but when he saw what I am doing
> he realized that he just stretches the comparative method
> some more, whereas my approach to early language is
> really new, and most fertile, opening windows on the past,
> and this realization turned him into my third online stalker,
> another stalker of the aggressive sort - he can't help
> smearing his dirt on my wall. / Arnaud Fournet alias yangg
> popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with an
> unprecedented outburst of faecal language. A sane person
> wouldn't join a scientific forum that way.
>

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Arnaud Fournet of the anal vocabulary considers himself
the new PIE hero, but when he saw what I am doing
he realized that he just stretches the comparative method
some more, whereas my approach to early language is
really new, and most fertile, opening windows on the past,
and this realization turned him into my third online stalker,
another stalker of the aggressive sort - he can't help
smearing his dirt on my wall. / Arnaud Fournet alias yangg
popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with an
unprecedented outburst of faecal language. A sane person

wouldn't join a scientific forum that way. / My first longtime
online stalker Marie Jean Faucounau alias grapheus,
a Frenchman and failed Phaistos Disc decipherer,
believed he can lead a smear campaign under the cover
of a pseudonym. Arnaud Fournet alias yangg, my third
online stalker, another Frenchman and failed Phaistos
Disc decipherer, believes he can lead a smear campaign
because nobody cares about sci.lang.

Centaurs and Prometheus (next time: Centaurs and
Laphits, the three Cyclops and their Hundred-handers,
the very heart of the first Indo-European homeland)

The Centaurs would originally have been miners of
nephrit and lapis lazuli on the Hindu Kush (Sar e Sang)
who transported their minerals with donkeys and ponies
down to Lake Sistan, from where the stones had been
traded to all parts of the ancient world. Nephrit was used
for making axe blades in the Stone Age, and lapis lazuli,
coming exclusively from northern Afghanistan, was most
beloved by the Egyptians, already in Predynastic times.
The miners and their animals would have been blended
into Centaurs, comparable to the Roman herdsmen of
goats who were blended with their animals into Satyrs.
Prometheus, one of the titans, the son of Japetos,
Japhet in the Bible, would originally have been ore
miners from the southern side of the Hindu Kush
(Kabul and Bamian) who ventured over the mountain
pass down into the drainage basin of the Amu Darya
and into the valley of the Vakhsh, where they found
copper associated with tin whose alloy yielded bronze
when melted in the very hot fire Prometheus had stolen
from the sun. A couple of Centaur miners followed
the Prometheus miners into the valley of the Vakhsh,
and transported the bronze all the way over the Hindu
Kush down to Lake Sistan, where the wise centaur
Cheiron or Chiron ruled, managing the trade of
medical herbs, of minerals and metals. His name
means Hand. He held his hand over the trade,
and over his miners. The Prometheus miners were
most successful. They looked out for ever richer
veins and loads, guided by an analogy: the veins
in the body lead to the heart and the liver, so may
it be that the veins of ore lead to equivalents of
the heart and liver inside the mountain? the richest
loads imaginable? However, the Prometheus miners
got in conflict with TYR Sseyr Sseus Zeus who
asked them for tributes, and as they were not
willing to pay, the dwellers of the Vaksh valley,
mountaineers who climbed the rocky slopes, which
earned them the nickname 'eagles', blocked the
way of the Prometheus miners and took away
their lawful tribute - chaining Prometheus to the
Caucasus and making the eagle of Zeus picking
on his ever regenerating liver, as it were (the
ancient Caucasus was the long and high range
from the present-day Caucasus in the west to the
Himalayas in the east). Wise Cheiron or Chiron
saved Prometheus by submitting under the will
of TYR Sseyr Sseus Zeus, in order to save his
trade and the business of his people.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Centaurs and Laphits, the three Cyclops and their

Hundred-handers, heart of the first Indo-European
homeland

Zeus overcame the titans with the help of the three
Cyclops, each of them commanding one Hundred-
hander. I read Cyclops as CO OC LOP, attentive
mind CO right eye OC enveloping wall LOP, naming
a fortified settlement protected by an eveloping wall
LOP, along the wall guards who look out with open
eyes OC, and in the center the ruler of the attentive
mind CO. The most famous Cyclop was Polyphem
'Much Famous', resembling more a wooded hilltop
than a man who eats bread, Homeric symbol of Troy,
his one eye the acropolis, his body downtwon Troy
VIIa, providing protected shelter for 5,000 to 10,000
people. The Cyclops who helped TYR Sseyr Sseus
Zeus overcome the titans would have been three
strategically placed fortresses allowing to control
the coming from and going to the Hindu Kush,
the Pamir, and the Alai Mountains. I propose
Termez or Termiz, Kunduz, and Kurgan. Each
fortress would have been built inside a palisade,
and would have been large enough for some one
hundred archers, one Hundred-hander, counting
right hands. The region controlled by Termez and
Kunduz and Kurgan would have been the very
heart of the first Indo-European homeland.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

On 17 Sep, 17:04, yangg <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> On Sep 16, 9:33 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> > Arnaud Fournet of the anal vocabulary considers himself
> > the new PIE hero, but when he saw what I am doing
> > he realized that he just stretches the comparative method
> > some more, whereas my approach to early language is
> > really new, and most fertile, opening windows on the past,
> > and this realization turned him into my third online stalker,
> > another stalker of the aggressive sort - he can't help
> > smearing his dirt on my wall. / Arnaud Fournet alias yangg
> > popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with an
> > unprecedented outburst of faecal language. A sane person
> > wouldn't join a scientific forum that way.
>
> ***
>
> You are basically a multiple failure.
>
> You failed to become a seminarist,
> you failed to become a mathematician,
> you failed to become a scholar,
> you failed to become a researcher,
> you failed to become a linguist
>
> if you had some talent, you might try to become some esoteric guru.
>
> but the fact is you are just a failure on all counts, a buffoonesque
> jerk and a social reject.

Don't be so judgemental, Arnaud. Franz does exhibit an enviable talent
in self-delusion. He could eat a piece of horseshit and convince
himself that it was a luxurious meal at the finest reastaurant in
Zurich.

[António Marques]

The university you send your stuff from is open on sundays??

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Arnaud Fournet of the anal vocabulary considers himself
the new PIE hero, but when he saw what I am doing
he realized that he just stretches the comparative method
some more, whereas my approach to early language is
really new, and most fertile, opening windows on the past,
and this realization turned him into my third online stalker,
another stalker of the aggressive sort - he can't help
smearing his dirt on my wall. / Arnaud Fournet alias yangg
popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with an
unprecedented outburst of faecal language. A sane person
wouldn't join a scientific forum that way. / My first longtime
online stalker Marie Jean Faucounau alias grapheus,
a Frenchman and failed Phaistos Disc decipherer,
believed he can lead a smear campaign under the cover
of a pseudonym. Arnaud Fournet alias yangg, my third
online stalker, another Frenchman and failed Phaistos
Disc decipherer, believes he can lead a smear campaign

because nobody cares about sci.lang. / Arnaud Fournet
on cybalist: "You're just a hijo de puta de mierda plus an
insane ill-bred shit-monger." Octavià: "You're absolutely
**crazy** and incapable of a civilized dicussion."

Laphits (forgotten part of my previous message)

I was so taken by my discovery of the 'heart' of the
first IE homeland that I forgot to explain the Laphits.
While CO OC LOP Cyclops refers to the inner
organization of the three hypothetical strongholds
at Termez or Termiz, Kunduz and Kurgan - in the center
the ruler of the attentive mind CO, around him the
guards of the open eyes OC along the palisade LOP -,
Laphit refers to the locations of these strongholds
on rivers. I derive the name from LOP AD DA,
the strongholds enveloped in palisades LOP
on the rivers that flow toward AD the Amu Darya
and the Aral Sea while coming from DA the Pamir
and Hindu Kush and Alai Mountains. The Lophits
would have been the Hundred-handers, about one
hundred archers assigned to each stronghold
(counting the right hands).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Franz Gnaedinger]

stalking on Usenet (marie jean faucounau panu
petteri höglund arnaud fournet)

My first longtime online stalker Marie Jean Faucounau

He punishes me for his barren mind, and the same
is true for my third online stalker Arnaud Fournet
alias yangg, a Frenchman and failed Phaistos Disc
decipherer as my first longtime online stalker
Marie Jean Faucounau alias grapheus. Arnaud

Fournet alias yangg popped up in sci.lang blindly
attacking people with an unprecedented outburst

of faecal language. He is another one with little to
say, with a nonfunctional textbook half-knowledge.
He tried to persuade me that Mycenaean is older
than Middle Helladic (Mycenaean is Late Helladic),
and he believes that sound 'laws' are actual laws
holding one hundred per cent, not just rules that
hold more or less, which tells me that he is another
one who craves power and must fantasize himself
in the possession of truth as means to exert power.
Together with a colleague he founded an online
linguistic journal featuring mostly him, himself,
and him again. Apparently no scholar is willing to
publish there, and after his campaign in sci.lang,
using faecal language instead of scientific arguments,
nobody will even think about publishing in his journal,
so one may say that he is committing suicide online,
in slow motion.

Experts on stalking say that a narcissistic stalker
is best ignored while an aggressive stalker must be
fought hard, in a decided manner. I do it by exposing
their ways, by working double as much, by insisting
on my qualities and abilities - wealth in ideas,
intuition and apperception own to a well organized
knowledge (as opposed to a nonfunctional textbook
half-knowledge), originality and courage -, and by
showing others how they can develop the same
qualities and abilities.

If you happen to be a victim of online mobbing and
stalking: your adversaries crave something precious
about you. Find out what it is, and share it with
worthy people.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Franz Gnaedinger]

How many first Indo-Europeans?

Let me estimate. Each stronghold housed 100 archers,
plus 100 nobles, plus 100 people who carried out
a variety of jobs, all in all 300 people inside a stronghold
of the diameter 60 meters. Outside the palisade 400
farmers, 200 hunters and fishermen, and 100 others.
All in all 1,000 people per stronghold, 3,000 people
for the three strongholds, tripled for the villagers
in between, a total of 9,000 first Indo-Europeans.
As their power and wealth increased, they would have
expanded toward the Aral Sea, then to the Uralic steppes
east of the Rha / Volga, second IE homeland, then to
the Pontic steppes, third IE homeland. The first Indo-
Europeans would have spoken a local dialect of Late
Magdalenian, the language of the titan Japetos,
Japhet in the Bible, which then spread quickly over
wide parts of Eurasia on the Magdalenian substratum.
Also the stories of the first Indo-Europeans of Termez
and Kunduz and Kurgan spread and were adopted
to other regions, for example of Greece, but even
Africa. The nobles of the three strongholds would
have been called ADI OC CO, noble wealthy ADI
right eye OC attentive mind CO, the noble and wealthy
ones who look about them with an attentive mind.
When the story of the taming of floods and river
tsunamis along the Vakhsh were projected to Africa,
ADI OC CO became Aithiopia Ethiopia, imagined
to be the southern margin of the earth, involving the
same sound shift as in the case of AD TOR OC CO
Mycenaean atoroqo Greek anthropos, toward AD
noise and commotion as made by a bull, then bull
in motion TOR, right eye OC attentive mind CO,
facing a bull in motion with open eyes and a focused
mind, to take the bull by his horns, to cope with fate,
ancient formula for the conditio humana.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[yangg]

[yangg]

On Sep 18, 1:56 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> stalking on Usenet (marie jean faucounau panu
> petteri höglund arnaud fournet)
>

[yangg]

On Sep 19, 9:22 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> How many first Indo-Europeans?
>
> Let me estimate. Each stronghold housed 100 archers,
> plus 100 nobles, plus 100 people who carried out
> a variety of jobs, all in all 300 people inside a stronghold
> of the diameter 60 meters. Outside the palisade 400
> farmers, 200 hunters and fishermen, and 100 others.
> All in all 1,000 people per stronghold, 3,000 people
> for the three strongholds, tripled for the villagers
> in between, a total of 9,000 first Indo-Europeans.

***

Lol

This one is really fun.

Give you a trophy for this one.

A.

[yangg]

On Sep 18, 12:16 pm, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow

Army <craoibhi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You are basically a multiple failure.
>
> > You failed to become a seminarist,
> > you failed to become a mathematician,
> > you failed to become a scholar,
> > you failed to become a researcher,
> > you failed to become a linguist
>
> > if you had some talent, you might try to become some esoteric guru.
>
> > but the fact is you are just a failure on all counts, a buffoonesque
> > jerk and a social reject.
>
> Don't be so judgemental, Arnaud. Franz does exhibit an enviable talent
> in self-delusion. He could eat a piece of horseshit and convince
> himself that it was a luxurious meal at the finest reastaurant in

> Zurich.-
***

This falls into being "a buffoonesque jerk".

Chaplin ate his shoe soles and was funny, but Franz is just a failure.

A.
***

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Arnaud Fournet of the anal vocabulary considers himself
the new PIE hero, but when he saw what I am doing
he realized that he just stretches the comparative method
some more, whereas my approach to early language is
really new, and most fertile, opening windows on the past,
and this realization turned him into my third online stalker,
another stalker of the aggressive sort - he can't help

smearing his dirt on my wall. / Arnaud Fournet alias yangg

popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with an

unprecedented outburst of faecal language. A sane person
wouldn't join a scientific forum that way. / My first longtime
online stalker Marie Jean Faucounau alias grapheus,
a Frenchman and failed Phaistos Disc decipherer,
believed he can lead a smear campaign under the cover
of a pseudonym. Arnaud Fournet alias yangg, my third
online stalker, another Frenchman and failed Phaistos
Disc decipherer, believes he can lead a smear campaign
because nobody cares about sci.lang. / Arnaud Fournet
on cybalist: "You're just a hijo de puta de mierda plus an
insane ill-bred shit-monger." Octavià: "You're absolutely

**crazy** and incapable of a civilized dicussion." /
Arnaud Fournet co-founded a linguistic journal featuring
mainly him, himself, and him again. Apparently no scholar
wants to publish there, considering the hideous messages
Arnaud Fournet posted to cybalist admin.

Sistan Basin

In my university library I found the Central Asia Journal
1955-2009, no article about the region I identified as the
'heart' of the first IE homeland, Termez Kunduz Kurgan,
but an interesting one about the Sistan Basin. Shahr-i
Shokta goes back to the fifth millennium BC (!), the
population increased dramatically around 3 200 BC,
probably as consequence of a flooding. The people
of the town traded lapis lazuli to Mesopotamia and
Egypt. The built irrigation systems, and made tubes
of clay to lead water subterraneously, so that it won't
evaporate. And they melt copper in their cellars,
achieving the temperature of 1,083 degrees Celsius
with reed that was available in great amounts.

Ancient Chinese *kwaklak 'belt' is related to PIE
*kwekwlos 'wheel' which I derive from CO OC LOP
that also accounts for Cyclops. The wall or palisade
around a stronghold can easily be seen as a belt
holding together the fortified settlement.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-

> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­--------
>

[pauljk]

"yangg" <fournet...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:79984564-e1c3-47b1...@s3g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...

:-)

Are you sure you meant to give him a trophy, not atrophy?

pjk

[yangg]

On Sep 19, 11:40 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> on cybalist: "You're just a hijo de puta de mierda plus an
> insane ill-bred shit-monger." Octavià: "You're absolutely
> **crazy** and incapable of a civilized dicussion." /

***

Octavia sides with you in my gallery of glorified idiots and trolls.

http://world-web-trolls-and-idiots.blogspot.com/2011/09/lord-of-all-trolls.html

That idiot/troll has been expelled from about everywhere.

If you could be expelled from you, obviously you would not be there
any more since a very long time.

A.

[yangg]

On Sep 19, 3:24 pm, "pauljk" <paul.kr...@clear.net.nz> wrote:
> "yangg" <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message

> pjk-
***

A trophy for the best gaggithaler buffoonesquery of the week.

A.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Arnaud Fournet of the anal vocabulary considers himself
the new PIE hero, but when he saw what I am doing
he realized that he just stretches the comparative method
some more, whereas my approach to early language is
really new, and most fertile, opening windows on the past,
and this realization turned him into my third online stalker,
another stalker of the aggressive sort - he can't help
smearing his dirt on my wall. / Arnaud Fournet alias yangg
popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with an
unprecedented outburst of faecal language. A sane person
wouldn't join a scientific forum that way. / My first longtime
online stalker Marie Jean Faucounau alias grapheus,
a Frenchman and failed Phaistos Disc decipherer,
believed he can lead a smear campaign under the cover
of a pseudonym. Arnaud Fournet alias yangg, my third
online stalker, another Frenchman and failed Phaistos
Disc decipherer, believes he can lead a smear campaign
because nobody cares about sci.lang. / Arnaud Fournet
on cybalist: "You're just a hijo de puta de mierda plus an
insane ill-bred shit-monger." Octavià: "You're absolutely
**crazy** and incapable of a civilized dicussion." /
Arnaud Fournet co-founded a linguistic journal featuring
mainly him, himself, and him again. Apparently no scholar
wants to publish there, considering the hideous messages

Arnaud Fournet posted to cybalist admin. / Does Allan
Bomhard know how Arnaud Fournet behaves online?
(I repeat this introduction every time the title of my thread
is being changed to the dumköpfli subtitle, whether by
yangg or Paul J. Kriha or anyone else)

very well organized

The heart of the first IE homeland on the Amu Darya
would have been the river Y between Kurgan and
Kunduz and Termez, at each place a stronghold inside
a round wall or palisade dubbed CO OC LOP Cyclops,
inside 300 people including one hundred archers, outside
700 more people, one thousand people per stronghold,
3,000 people for all three stronghold places, plus 6,000
more living in villages along the river Y of some 85 and 85
and 100 kilometers, villages of tents and huts, average
distance from village to village some 5 kilometers, 17 and
17 and 20 villages, in all 54 villages, average population
111 dwellers per village (statistical numbers). How could
a small population of 9,000 people gain control over the
entire drainage basin of the Amu Darya within ten years?
that's how long the war of the Titans lasted (nomads
in the mountain valleys), including the war waged against
Prometheus (ore miners from the south of the Hindu Kush)
and the Centaurs (mineral miners and their donkeys and
ponies from the Sistan basin, following the ore miners).
By means of the strategic position of the three strongholds,
and owing to a very good organization. They were the
ADI OC CO, the noble and wealthy ones ADI who looked
about them with open eyes OC and an attentive mind CO.
The strongholds and the villages would have been well
guarded, by three kinds of guards dubbed 'dogs' and
'horses' and 'eagles'. The 'dogs' would have guarded
the settlements. The 'horses' would have guarded the
river banks. And the 'eagles' would have watched out
from the hills. Moreoever they installed an alarm system
in the form of a chain of fires. Each village had a fire
burning by night, visible from the adjacent villages.
When it shone, everything was all right, but when it went
out, help came from the other villages. In some distance
of the first fire a second fire was used for transmitting
signels, blinking in certain patterns. These fires were
called PIR SAI, fire PIR of life SAI. The were installed
by Perseus who was protected and supported by
Athaenae Athene, from AD DA NAI, to find a good camp
NAI on a river that flows toward AD the sea while coming
from DA the mountains. The places of the hypothetical
strongholds would have been very well chosen.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[yangg]

On Sep 20, 8:54 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> Arnaud Fournet of the anal vocabulary considers himself
> the new PIE hero, but when he saw what I am doing
> he realized that he just stretches the comparative method
> some more, whereas my approach to early language is
> really new, and most fertile, opening windows on the past,

***

You are basically a social reject and a jerk.

A.,
***

> and this realization turned him into my third online stalker,
> another stalker of the aggressive sort - he can't help
> smearing his dirt on my wall. / Arnaud Fournet alias yangg
> popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with an
> unprecedented outburst of faecal language. A sane person
> wouldn't join a scientific forum that way. / My first longtime
> online stalker Marie Jean Faucounau alias grapheus,
> a Frenchman and failed Phaistos Disc decipherer,
> believed he can lead a smear campaign under the cover
> of a pseudonym. Arnaud Fournet alias yangg, my third
> online stalker, another Frenchman and failed Phaistos
> Disc decipherer, believes he can lead a smear campaign
> because nobody cares about sci.lang. / Arnaud Fournet
> on cybalist: "You're just a hijo de puta de mierda plus an
> insane ill-bred shit-monger." Octavià: "You're absolutely
> **crazy** and incapable of a civilized dicussion." /
> Arnaud Fournet co-founded a linguistic journal featuring
> mainly him, himself, and him again. Apparently no scholar
> wants to publish there, considering the hideous messages
> Arnaud Fournet posted to cybalist admin. / Does Allan
> Bomhard know how Arnaud Fournet behaves online?
> (I repeat this introduction every time the title of my thread
> is being changed to the dumköpfli subtitle, whether by
> yangg or Paul J. Kriha or anyone else)

***

You are basically a multiple failure.

You failed to become a seminarist,
you failed to become a mathematician,
you failed to become a scholar,
you failed to become a researcher,
you failed to become a linguist

if you had some talent, you might try to become some esoteric guru.

but the fact is you are just a failure on all counts, a buffoonesque
jerk and a social reject.

You try to parade as a linguist, erroneously thinking that your
incompetence and stupidity would be less glaringly apparent in that

field, but you are just as incompetent as everywhere else.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Allan Bomhard, do you know how Arnaud Fournet
behaves online? Here is one of the messages
he posted to cybalist admin:

(quote)

You're just a hijo de puta de mierda plus an insane ill-bred shit-
monger

And You should consider yourself happy that

The "moderators" on these lists are mental perverts who seem to relish
in
the crap and shit you keep selling all the time.


These lists are all yours to spoil and debase, Tavi-Anustratic-L, etc.

No problem, I got mine.

And you all pieces of shit and sons of rotten bitches will never set a
foot
there.

Enjoy your own crap and shit.


Die in hell, you all bastards.


A.

(unquote)

You find more of his hideous posts if you google
for his name. When he joined sci.lang, he just
went on writing this way.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

I found out why Arnaud Fournet alias yangg behaves
in that bizarre way of his. Allan Bomhard distanced
himself from the paper he wrote with Fournet,
and in all clarity an academician is capable of:

From: Allan Bomhard <arbomhard@...>
To: Brian Zeisberger <bzeisberger@...>
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2011 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Nostratic-L] Hurrian & Indo-European

Brian:

I had hoped to stay out of the fray on this, but I see that it is not
going to be possible. I will not enter into a long discussion about
this matter but will make a simple statement and let it go at that.

The Hurrian project was challenging when I was working on it with
Arnaud, but, as time has passed and I have had a chance to think more
on these issues, I have changed my mind. I no longer support any of
the theories advanced or conclusions drawn in that work.

Allan

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Story of the first Indo-Eurpeans, a scetch

part 1) Titans, Cronus and Rhea, their children

The Amu Darya would have been the first Indo-European
homeland. The Titans lived in the mountains on the upper
course of the river system, Alai Mountains, Pamir and
Hindu Kush. Cronus presided over the mountains,
his wife Rhea over the rivers. Their children lived in the
mountain valleys, hidden from each other and the world,
swallowed by Cronus, as it were. When Rhea got pregnant
again, she gave Cronus a stone to swallow, fled toward
the Aral Sea, and gave birth to Zeus, Magdalenian TYR
emphatic Middle Helladic Sseyr Doric Sseus Homeric Zeus.
TYR was raised on the ancient mouthing of the Amu Darya
and became the ruler of what is now called Lowland of
Turan. A heavy earthquake in the mountains caused many
of the nomads to leave their valleys and head for the plain
- Gaia the Earth making Cronus give back the swallowed
children, so to say - while TYR wandered upward from
the Aral Sea. They met where the rivers Vakhsh and Panj
join, and founded a union, remembered as the overcoming
of Cronus. TYR means overcomer, as verb to overcome
in the double sense of rule and give. TYR and his people
settled in the fertile plain, their main dwellings having
been Termez on the Amu Darya, Kunduz on the river
coming from the Hindu Kush, and Kurgan on the Vakhsh.
They were the first Indo-Europeans.

(to be continued)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[yangg]

On Sep 20, 4:03 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> Allan Bomhard, do you know how Arnaud Fournet
> behaves online?

***

Not a problem.

Allan once called me a fraud (!)
before working with me.

A.
***

Here is one of the messages
> he posted to cybalist admin:

***

So, idiot, your thread is now designed to repost my posts !!

You buffoon.

A.
***

>
> (quote)
>
> You're just a hijo de puta de mierda plus an insane ill-bred shit-
> monger
>
> And You should consider yourself happy that
>
> The "moderators" on these lists are mental perverts who seem to relish
> in
> the crap and shit you keep selling all the time.
>
> These lists are all yours to spoil and debase, Tavi-Anustratic-L, etc.
>
> No problem, I got mine.
>
> And you all pieces of shit and sons of rotten bitches will never set a
> foot
> there.
>
> Enjoy your own crap and shit.
>
> Die in hell, you all bastards.
>
> A.
>
> (unquote)
>
> You find more of his hideous posts if you google
> for his name. When he joined sci.lang, he just
> went on writing this way.

***

You have no idea how I've been mistreated by assholes like Brian
Maynard Scott who absurdly tries to parade as a nice and supporting
person.

He's a complete bastard and a mental pervert who has allowed a number
of trolls like Octavia/Tavi to constantly insult me, so there's
nothing to wonder why I wrote that kind of posts to these assholes.

Tavi has been finally banned from most lists he was. And I've been
readmitted when people understood they were wrong.

Besides this is not my worst post.

Keep searching the archives, idiot.

A.

[yangg]

On Sep 21, 9:11 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> Story of the first Indo-Eurpeans, a scetch
>

[gaggithaler crap deleted]


You forgot to cite my name, Möngi.

A.

[yangg]

On Sep 20, 5:10 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> I found out why Arnaud Fournet alias yangg behaves
> in that bizarre way of his.

***

You found nothing, Möngi.

A.
***

***

This mail was originally a private mail by Allan which Zeisberger
rendered public, without Allan's agreement.

So you are just making a second misdemeanor.

Anyway I agree with Allan that this "book" is more a draft, that needs
more work.

A.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Arnaud Fournet alias yangg is an amateur linguist. His claim
to fame was a paper he wrote with Allan Bomhard, a real linguist.
However, Allan Bomhard retracted his contribution: "The Hurrian

project was challenging when I was working on it with Arnaud,
but, as time has passed and I have had a chance to think more
on these issues, I have changed my mind. I no longer support
any of the theories advanced or conclusions drawn in that work.

/ Allan" Which is the reason why Arnaud Fournet of the warped
soul takes revenge on me, stalking me and leading a smear
campaign. He popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with
an unprecedented outburst of faecal language. And he posted
hideous messages to cybalist admin. He feels entitled to write
the ugliest messages, considering himself a victim. He turns
himself into a capital study case of online mobbing and stalking.

Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a scetch

part 1) Titans, Cronus and Rhea, their children

The Amu Darya would have been the first Indo-European
homeland. The Titans lived in the mountains on the upper
course of the river system, Alai Mountains, Pamir and
Hindu Kush. Cronus presided over the mountains,
his wife Rhea over the rivers. Their children lived in the
mountain valleys, hidden from each other and the world,
swallowed by Cronus, as it were. When Rhea got pregnant
again, she gave Cronus a stone to swallow, fled toward

the Aral Sea, and gave birth to Zeus, Magdalenian TYR
emphatic Middle Helladic Sseyr Doric Sseus Homeric Zeus.
TYR was raised on the ancient mouthing of the Amu Darya

and became the ruler of what is now called Lowland of
Turan. A heavy earthquake in the mountains caused many
of the nomads to leave their valleys and head for the plain
- Gaia the Earth making Cronus give back the swallowed
children, so to say - while TYR wandered upward from
the Aral Sea. They met where the rivers Vakhsh and Panj
join, and founded a union, remembered as the overcoming

of Cronus. TYR means overcomer, as verb to overcome

in the double sense of rule and give. TYR and his people
settled in the fertile plain, their main dwellings having
been Termez on the Amu Darya, Kunduz on the river
coming from the Hindu Kush, and Kurgan on the Vakhsh.
They were the first Indo-Europeans.

(to be continued)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

> very well organized

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch

part 2) Centaurs

The Centaurs were Afghan miners of nephrite,

used for making axe blades in the Stone Age,

and of lapis lazuli on the Hindu Kush (Sari Sang),
where the mineral occurs in gem quality, the
only ancient source of lapis lazuli. The miners
transported their precious cargo with donkeys
and ponies to Lake Sistan, from where the stones,
partly in worked form, were traded to Mesopotamia
and Egypt, where lapis lazuli was most beloved,
already in Predynastic times. Folklore and later
mythology blended these miners and their animals
into Centaurs, comparable to Roman goatsherd

who were blended with their animals into Satyrs.

The Sistan Basin was ruled by Cheiron or Chiron,
the wise Centaur. He held his hand over the trade
and over the miners, his name meaning hand.
He was the mythological founder of Shachr-i Sokhta
on Lake Sistan, whose origin goes back to the fifth
millenium BC, and he stands for the entire dynasty
of rulers there. The population increased dramatically
around 3 200 BC, probably as consequence of a flood.
The engineers of the region built irrigation systems,
and conducted water via clay tubes in the ground
so it won't evaporate, and they melted copper in
their houses, using reed for reaching the required
high temperature. By the end of the fourth millennium
BC, Shachr-i Sokhta was one of the biggest towns
in the world. Cheiron, as mythological ruler, standing
for the entire dynasty, would have traded medical
herbs, minerals, especially nephrite and lapis lazuli,
and ores. He will play an important role in the next
chapters.

(to be continued)

----------------------------------------------------------------

> Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch

[yangg]

On Sep 21, 10:30 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> Arnaud Fournet
****

Fielen Tankh for using "your" thread to advertise my name, Möngi.

A.
***

alias yangg is an amateur linguist.

***

The latest troll of your kind to call me an "amateur linguist" was
Octavia, the Lord of all Trolls.

I'm not amateur. I have a PhD in linguistics, two books and about 20
published articles around the world.

In comparison, Möngi, it's not difficult to see that you are * not * a
linguist, but just a jerk who erroneously thinks his incompetence is
less glaringly obvious in linguistics than anywhere else.

But you are wrong.

A.
***



His claim to fame

***

I have no claim.

You are projecting your own narcissic problems on somebody else.

A.
***

> to fame was a paper he wrote with Allan Bomhard, a real linguist.
> However, Allan Bomhard retracted his contribution: "The Hurrian
> project was challenging when I was working on it with Arnaud,
> but, as time has passed and I have had a chance to think more
> on these issues, I have changed my mind.  I no longer support
> any of the theories advanced or conclusions drawn in that work.
> / Allan"  Which is the reason why Arnaud Fournet of the warped
> soul takes revenge on me, stalking me and leading a smear
> campaign.

***

You don't need a smear campaign.
Your sheer stupidity and incompetence work well enough to sink your
boat and transform your parade into a Narrenfest.

A.
***

He popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with
> an unprecedented outburst of faecal language. And he posted
> hideous messages to cybalist admin.

***

Not just there...

But that's the right place for do so.

A.
***

He feels entitled to write
> the ugliest messages, considering himself a victim. He turns
> himself into a capital study case of online mobbing and stalking.
>
> Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a scetch

***

By the way, idiot, scetch is correctly written sketch.

A.
***

[gaggithaler crap deleted]

[DKleinecke]

On Sep 22, 1:22 am, yangg <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> On Sep 21, 10:30 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> alias yangg is an amateur linguist.
> ***
>

> I'm not amateur. I have a PhD in linguistics, two books and about 20
> published articles around the world.

Minor question of word usage. Amateur means not paid. Have you ever
actually made some money from being a linguist ?

I know this is a quibble and the meaning of the word "amateur" is
changing. I am curious just how an unbiased person would red this
exchange.

[yangg]

On Sep 23, 2:08 am, DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Minor question of word usage. Amateur means not paid.  Have you ever
> actually made some money from being a linguist ?
>
> I know this is a quibble and the meaning of the word "amateur" is
> changing.  I am curious just how an unbiased person would red this
> exchange.

***

In French amateur would rather mean "half competent" rather than
"unpaid"

Anyway I've not make much money from being a skilled linguist, even
when measured against low expectations...

A.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Arnaud Fournet alias yangg is an amateur linguist. His claim
to fame was a paper he wrote with Allan Bomhard, a real linguist.
However, Allan Bomhard retracted his contribution: "The Hurrian
project was challenging when I was working on it with Arnaud,
but, as time has passed and I have had a chance to think more
on these issues, I have changed my mind. I no longer support
any of the theories advanced or conclusions drawn in that work.
/ Allan" Which is the reason why Arnaud Fournet of the warped
soul takes revenge on me, stalking me and leading a smear
campaign. He popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with
an unprecedented outburst of faecal language. And he posted
hideous messages to cybalist admin. He feels entitled to write
the ugliest messages, considering himself a victim. He turns
himself into a capital study case of online mobbing and stalking.

(If Arnaud Fournet were a scholar he would use the fantastic
facility of the Usenet and freedom of sci.lang to propose his
ideas and develop them. The way he behaves makes clear
that he has no valid ideas worth being developed.)

Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch

part 3) Prometheus

Prometheus was the collective name for the Afghan miners
who had a center at Kabul and co-operated with the mineral
miners dubbed Centaurs who transported also ores to
Lake Sistan or Lake Hamun. The ore miners found silver
and gold and copper in Afghanistan. They ventured over the
Hindu Kush down into the valley of the Amu Darya and up
the valley of the Vaksh, where they found copper associated
with tin. Smelting copper-tin they obtained bronze. Some of
the mineral miners with their donkeys and ponies followed
the ore miners and transported the freshly cast bronze all
the way over the Hindu Kush and down to Lake Hamun
in the Sistan Basin, the region ruled by the dynasty of wise
Cheiron. The Centaurs were a rough band. Transporting
the precious materials over the high mountains and over
such distances was a risky business. They were good
archers, and had to be that in order to defend their cargo,
their animals, and their own lives. Cheiron protected them
in every way he could. But the Amu Darya is far from the
Sistan Basin, and the Centaurs had to cross the core land
of the first Indo-European community, Termez Kunduz
Kurgan. Meanwhile Prometheus looked out for ever richer

veins and loads, guided by an analogy: the veins in the

body lead to the heart and liver, so may it be that the veins

of ore lead to equivalents of the heart and liver inside the

mountains? to the richest loads imaginable? They were
successful miners. More and more Centaurs followed
them into the Vaksh River Valley. Conflicts with the new
union arose, and made TYR Sseyr Sseus Zeus ask
Prometheus for tributes. As he declined, some of the
local guards dubbed 'eagles', mountaineers watching
out from the hills, well trained and experienced in
climbing rocky slopes and reaching difficult places,
blocked the way of Prometheus, of the ore miners,
and took away their part from the bronze they smelted
- chaining Prometheus to the Caucasus and picking
on his liver, as it were. The ancient Caucasus was the
entire long and high mountain range from the modern-
day Caucasus in the west to the Himalayas in the east.

Next time: Perseus

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Arnaud Fournet alias yangg is an amateur linguist. His claim
to fame was a paper he wrote with Allan Bomhard, a real linguist.
However, Allan Bomhard retracted his contribution: "The Hurrian
project was challenging when I was working on it with Arnaud,
but, as time has passed and I have had a chance to think more
on these issues, I have changed my mind. I no longer support
any of the theories advanced or conclusions drawn in that work.
/ Allan" Which is the reason why Arnaud Fournet of the warped
soul takes revenge on me, stalking me and leading a smear
campaign. He popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with
an unprecedented outburst of faecal language. And he posted
hideous messages to cybalist admin. He feels entitled to write
the ugliest messages, considering himself a victim. He turns
himself into a capital study case of online mobbing and stalking.

(If Arnaud Fournet were a scholar deserving his PhD in linguistics
and if he had valid new ideas not yet accepted by the linguistic
community he would use the fantastic facility of the Usenet
and freedom of sci.lang to propose his ideas and develop them,
but the nonsense he told me - Mycenaean being older than
Middle Helladic, sound 'laws' being not just rules but actual laws
holding one hundred percent - and the way he behaves online
- confounding scatology with scientific arguments - make it clear
that even 'amateur' is too nice a term for him, and that he has

no valid ideas worth being developed.)

Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch

part 3) Prometheus

Prometheus was the collective name for the Afghan miners
who had a center at Kabul and co-operated with the mineral
miners dubbed Centaurs who transported also ores to
Lake Sistan or Lake Hamun. The ore miners found silver
and gold and copper in Afghanistan. They ventured over the
Hindu Kush down into the valley of the Amu Darya and up
the valley of the Vaksh, where they found copper associated
with tin. Smelting copper-tin they obtained bronze. Some of
the mineral miners with their donkeys and ponies followed
the ore miners and transported the freshly cast bronze all
the way over the Hindu Kush and down to Lake Hamun
in the Sistan Basin, the region ruled by the dynasty of wise
Cheiron. The Centaurs were a rough band. Transporting
the precious materials over the high mountains and over
such distances was a risky business. They were good
archers, and had to be that in order to defend their cargo,
their animals, and their own lives. Cheiron protected them
in every way he could. But the Amu Darya is far from the
Sistan Basin, and the Centaurs had to cross the core land
of the first Indo-European community, Termez Kunduz

Kurgan. Meanwhile Prometheus looked out for ever richer

veins and loads, guided by an analogy: the veins in the

body lead to the heart and liver, so may it be that the veins

of ore lead to equivalents of the heart and liver inside the

mountains? to the richest loads imaginable? They were
successful miners. More and more Centaurs followed
them into the Vaksh River Valley. Conflicts with the new
union arose, and made TYR Sseyr Sseus Zeus ask
Prometheus for tributes. As he declined, some of the
local guards dubbed 'eagles', mountaineers watching
out from the hills, well trained and experienced in
climbing rocky slopes and reaching difficult places,
blocked the way of Prometheus, of the ore miners,
and took away their part from the bronze they smelted
- chaining Prometheus to the Caucasus and picking
on his liver, as it were. The ancient Caucasus was the
entire long and high mountain range from the modern-
day Caucasus in the west to the Himalayas in the east.

Next time: Perseus

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

--
athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2011-09-23 09:44:38 +0200, yangg said:

> On Sep 23, 2:08 am, DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Minor question of word usage. Amateur means not paid.  Have you ever
>> actually made some money from being a linguist ?
>>
>> I know this is a quibble and the meaning of the word "amateur" is
>> changing.  I am curious just how an unbiased person would red this
>> exchange.
> ***
>
> In French amateur would rather mean "half competent" rather than
> "unpaid"

I think it pretty much does in English as well. Most academics
sometimes find themselves having to give lectures on things outside
their specialist subjects, and if I say, for example, "I'm a bit of an
amateur when it comes to lipid metabolism" no one would suppose that
I'm not going to get paid for that particular lecture. On the other
hand if Franz managed to earn a Swiss franc by selling an article about
his Magdalenian fantasies to a local newspaper that wouldn't affect his
status as an amateur in virtually all domains.

--
athel

[António Marques]

'Amateur' is the opposite of 'professional', and 'professional' has a
complex meaning. Whether one's paid and/or skilled and/or recognised by a
union are all factors. Sometimes, one of those factors can be enough to
in/validate the classification.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Readers of docendi.org : you can find the omitted messages
via Google.

Arnaud Fournet alias yangg is an amateur linguist. His claim
to fame was a paper he wrote with Allan Bomhard, a real linguist.
However, Allan Bomhard retracted his contribution: "The Hurrian
project was challenging when I was working on it with Arnaud,
but, as time has passed and I have had a chance to think more
on these issues, I have changed my mind. I no longer support
any of the theories advanced or conclusions drawn in that work.
/ Allan" Which is the reason why Arnaud Fournet of the warped
soul takes revenge on me, stalking me and leading a smear
campaign. He popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with
an unprecedented outburst of faecal language. And he posted
hideous messages to cybalist admin. He feels entitled to write
the ugliest messages, considering himself a victim. He turns
himself into a capital study case of online mobbing and stalking.
(If Arnaud Fournet were a scholar deserving his PhD in linguistics
and if he had valid new ideas not yet accepted by the linguistic
community he would use the fantastic facility of the Usenet
and freedom of sci.lang to propose his ideas and develop them,
but the nonsense he told me - Mycenaean being older than
Middle Helladic, sound 'laws' being not just rules but actual laws

holding one hundred per cent - and the way he behaves online

- confounding scatology with scientific arguments - make it clear
that even 'amateur' is too nice a term for him, and that he has
no valid ideas worth being developed.)

Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch

part 4) Perseus

Perseus was born on the ancient river delta of the
Amu Darya but raised and educated on Lake Hamun
or Sistan, the region ruled by the dynasty of wise
Cheiron. Perseus learned all about irrigation and
building techniques from the clever engineers.
As a young man he returned to the southern shore
of the Aral Sea and applied what he had learned
from Cheiron's men. He built a series of dams
between the marshes of the shore and the fields,
dividing the snake-infested marshes from the arable
soil, using the water of the Amu Darya for a system
of irrigation canals on the save side of the dam.
His first deed was remembered in folklore and
then mythology as beheading of Medusa. When
the summer wind Afghanetz blew over the dams,
the local dwellers imagined a winged horse flying
over their heads, along the Amu Darya to the Hindu
Kush - the winged horse known as Pegasus. While
building the dams and canals, gold nuggets were
found in the soil and river beds, releasing a first
gold rush. People headed for the Alai Mountains
and washed gold in the river beds, remembered
as the giant Chrysaor whose name originally
combined chrysos 'gold' and sao 'I sieve' but
was later modified to the combination of chrysos
'gold' and aor 'sword', he of the golden sword.
The original giant personified the gold washers
in the Alai Mountains. Perseus followed them and
protected them from floods and river tsunamis
of the Vakhsh (released by failing landslide dams)
by building barrages out of poles he made from
spruce. He went so far as to plant pine cones
dubbed 'dragon teeth' and made them grow into
carefully tended forests. Furthermore he installed
a warning system, horns blown by day and fires
lit by night, also flashes of sun light directed with
copper mirrors covered in gold, sent from station
to warning station along the Vakhsh. Finally,
Perseus built three strongholds, one at Termez,
one at Kunduz, and one at Kurgan, round palisades
inhabited by one hundred nobles, one hundred
archers, and one hundred workers and servants,
while some seven hundred people lived outside the
palisade of each stronghold, farmers, fishermen,
hunters, and guards. The settlements with the
elevated strongholds were dubbed Cyclopes,
one eyed giants, while the one hundred archers
per stronghold were called Hundred-handers
(right hands). At the three key strong-places lived
3000 people, 6000 more between Termez and
Kunduz and Kurgan. The region was watched over

by three kinds of guards dubbed 'dogs' and 'horses'

and 'eagles' - the 'dogs' guarded the strongholds
and villages, the 'horses' guarded the banks of
the rivers, and the 'eagles' watched out from
the hills. The villages along the connecting rivers
were also protected by fires burning in the night,
visible from the neighboring villages. If the fire
shone, all was right, but when a fire went out,
helpers came to the rescue. Hides held next to
the fires and moved in certain patterns allowed to
send signals from village to village. The fires were
called PIR SAI, fire PIR life SAI, Fires of Life,
wherefrom Perseus. The clever organisation
of the core of the first Indo-European homeland
allowed a relatively small population of an estimated
9000 people to take over the entire drainage basin
of the Amu Darya.

Next time: battle of the Laphits and Centaurs

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch

part 5) Laphites and Centaurs

The Laphites were the dwellers of the strongholds
at Termez and Kunduz and Kurgan, Prometheus
was the collective name for the Afghan ore miners
who ventured from the Hindu Kush down to the
Amu Darya and into the valley of the Vakhsh,
where they found copper associated with tin,
and the Centaurs were Afghan mineral miners,
many of whom followed Prometheus, transporting
his bronze, copper-tin in smelted form, with their
donkeys and ponies all the way over the Hindu
Kush and down to Lake Hamun or Sistan. where
Cheiron ruled, the wise Centaur whose name means
hand, helding his hand over the trade of medical
herbs and minerals and ores to Mesopotamia and
Egypt, and over his miners. However, the basin
of the Amu Darya was far from the Sistan Basin.
Conflicts arose between TYR Sseyr Sseus Zeus
and Prometheus, and between the Laphites and
the Centaurs. Prometheus looked out for ever

richer veins and loads, guided by an analogy:
the veins in the body lead to the heart and liver,

so maybe the veins in the mountains lead to
equivalents of the heart and liver inside rock?
the richest loads imaginable? Their high hopes
did not come true, but motivated them to go on
and on in their search (as there will never be
a Theory of Everything in physics, but the high
hopes keep physicists going with their research),
and so they were most successful. TYR Sseyr
Sseus Zeus asked them for tributes. They declined,
so the 'eagle' guards who watched out from the
hills and were good climbers blocked the way of
Prometheus and took their tribute from him -

chaining Prometheus to the Caucasus and picking

on his liver, as it were, the ancient Caucasus
having been the entire long and high mountain
range from the modern-day Caucasus in the west
to the Himalayas in the east. Meanwhile the
Centaurs got in conflicts with the Laphites,
a battle ensued, the Laphites won. Wise Cheiron
solved the conflict by submitting under the will
of TYR Sseyr Sseus Zeus, thus saving Prometheus
and the Centaurs and the business of his people.
Now the core of the first Indo-European homeland
was firmly established, more and more tribes
joined the union of Termez and Kunduz and Kurgan,
finally the first IE homeland on the banks of the
Amu Darya extended from the Aral Sea to the
Alai Mountains, the Pamir and the Hindu Kush.
Later on, the Uralic steppes east of the Rha /
Volga became the second IE homeland, and
then the Pontic steppes west of the Rha / Volga
became the third IE homeland.

Next four messages: deepening the story with
etymologies and references to mythology

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch

part 6) etymologies

AAR RAA NOS, mind NOS of the one composed
of air AAR and light RAA, was the supreme god of
the Göbekli Tepe, the sky god, visualized ex negativo
by the big limestone ring
http://www.seshat.ch/home/ouranos.JPG
AAR RAA NOS became the Greek sky god Ouranos
and the Vedic sky god Varuna, and he named many
valleys in western Europe, for example Val d'Aran,
Arundel, or the Val d'Hérens in the Swiss Alps,
a valley being a hollow between hills or mountains
filled with air and light. (Those valley names are
the chief witness to the Vasconic theory of early
language.) The variation AAR RAA CA, the one
composed of air AAR and light RAA in the sky CA
is present in muruku from AAR RAA AD DA Harappa
and Tamil Murukan, also in the Egyptian Horus falcon
whose eyes were moon and sun. Harappa from
AAR RAA AD DA names the heavenly Lord composed
of air AAR and light RAA presiding over his town on
a river that flows toward AD the Arabic Sea while
coming from DA the Himalayas, AD DA having been
a generic river name that is also present in the name
of the Indus. AAR RAA NOS of the Göbekli Tepe
was the consort of the supreme goddess, the fire
giver PIR GID (whose sisters were the fur giver
BIR GID and the fertility giver BRI GID), while the
Göbekli Tepe itself was called AC CA, an expanse
of land with water AC sky CA, where earth and sky
are meeting, personified by the Indo-European earth
goddess akka (Julius Pokorny) while the inverse form
CA AC became the Greek earth goddess Gaia.
Uranus and Gaia had several children, the Titans,
among them Cronus and Rhea. Cronus derives from
CRE NOS, mind NOS ruler CRE (a permutation of
CER for shaman), in my story presiding over the
mountains on the upper course of the Amu Darya,
the Alai Mountains and the Pamir and the Hindu
Kush, while Rhea derives from REO meaning river;
Rhea in my story presides over the river system
of the Amu Darya, and then wandered to the Rha,
ancient name of the Volga. Hindu Kush derives
from AD DA KOS, the mountain range under the
heavenly vault KOS, origin of many rivers that
flow toward AD lakes and seas while coming from
DA this very mountain range. Among the children
of Cronus and Rhea were Zeus and Poseidon
and Hades. Zeus derives from Magdalenian TYR,
he who overcomes in the double sense of rule
and give, Magdalenian TYR emphatic Middle
Helladic Sseyr (Phaistos Disc, Derk Ohlenroth)
Doric Sseus (Wilhelm Larfeld) Homeric Zeus,
in the Bible Tiras. Poseidon, in the older Doric
form Poteidas, derives from a double name,
PAD AD DA, PAS TON, toward AD from DA
activity of feet PAD, everywhere in a plain PAS,
here, south and north of me, east and west of me,
all in all five places, Greek pas pan 'all, every'
pente penta- 'five', and to make oneself heard
TON, wherefrom river names such as Don and
Danube Donau. PAD AD DA, PAS TON, he who
follows rivers that flow toward the sea while coming
from the mountains, Doric Poteidas, and makes
himself heard wherever he comes to, Poseidon.
He was originally the god of rivers and became
only later the god of the seas. Hades derives from
KOD meaning tent, hut, perhaps from KOD DhAG,
the second word meaning able, good in the sense
of able; he would first have been the patron of the

strongholds at Termez and Kunduz and Kurgan,

then of the mines along the Vakhsh, and finally
of the Underworld, the house of Hades, a doubling.
The emblematic animals of Zeus was an eagle,
originally the name of the guards watching out
from hills. The emblematic animal of Poseidon
was the horse, originally the name of the guards
watching over the rivers that connect Termez and
Kunduz and Kurgan. And the emblematic animal
of Hades was the dog, originally the guards who
watched the strongholds and villages, then the
guard of ores, then the guard of the Underworld..

(to be continued)

------------------------------------------------------------------

[yangg]

On Sep 23, 2:35 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> Readers of docendi.org : you can find the omitted messages
> via Google.

***
Lol
The world is eagerly waiting to read your gaggithaler crap.
A.
***

>
> Arnaud Fournet alias yangg is an amateur linguist. His claim
> to fame was a paper he wrote with Allan Bomhard, a real linguist.

***
Lol
Allan is more a comparatist than a linguist.

I wonder what a real linguist is.

A.
***

> However, Allan Bomhard retracted his contribution: "The Hurrian
> project was challenging when I was working on it with Arnaud,
> but, as time has passed and I have had a chance to think more
> on these issues, I have changed my mind.  I no longer support
> any of the theories advanced or conclusions drawn in that work.

***
His real position expressed in a private mail is not as strong as it
sounds here.

I suppose he would not give up the idea that Hurrian and Urartean are
related for example.

A.
***

> / Allan"  Which is the reason why Arnaud Fournet of the warped
> soul takes revenge on me, stalking me and leading a smear
> campaign.

***
Your own stupidity and incompetence are efficient enough for a smear
campaign against yourself.

A.
***

He popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with
> an unprecedented outburst of faecal language.

***
Not blindly.
A.
***

And he posted
> hideous messages to cybalist admin.

***
That's the right place to do so, Möngi.
And the right place for your gaggithaler crap is a blog.
A.
***

He feels entitled to write
> the ugliest messages, considering himself a victim. He turns
> himself into a capital study case of online mobbing and stalking.
> (If Arnaud Fournet were a scholar deserving his PhD in linguistics
> and if he had valid new ideas not yet accepted by the linguistic
> community he would use the fantastic facility of the Usenet
> and freedom of sci.lang to propose his ideas and develop them,

***
That's not the place to do so, idiot.
The place to develop my ideas is Journals.
A.
***

> but the nonsense he told me - Mycenaean being older than
> Middle Helladic, sound 'laws' being not just rules but actual laws
> holding one hundred per cent - and the way he behaves online
> - confounding scatology with scientific arguments - make it clear
> that even 'amateur' is too nice a term for him, and that he has
> no valid ideas worth being developed.)

***
Proved false.
Look at my Academia.edu profile.
A.
***

>
> Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch
>

[gaggithaler crap deleted]

[yangg]

On Sep 23, 11:55 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> Readers of docendi.org : you can find the omitted messages
> via Google.
***
Lol
The world is eagerly waiting to read your gaggithaler crap.
A.
***

>

> Arnaud Fournet alias yangg is an amateur linguist. His claim
> to fame was a paper he wrote with Allan Bomhard, a real linguist.

***
Lol
Allan is more a comparatist than a linguist.

I wonder what a real linguist is.

A.
***

> However, Allan Bomhard retracted his contribution: "The Hurrian
> project was challenging when I was working on it with Arnaud,
> but, as time has passed and I have had a chance to think more
> on these issues, I have changed my mind. I no longer support
> any of the theories advanced or conclusions drawn in that work.

***
His real position expressed in a private mail is not as strong as it
sounds here.

I suppose he would not give up the idea that Hurrian and Urartean are
related for example.

A.
***

> / Allan" Which is the reason why Arnaud Fournet of the warped
> soul takes revenge on me, stalking me and leading a smear
> campaign.

***
Your own stupidity and incompetence are efficient enough for a smear
campaign against yourself.

A.
***

He popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with
> an unprecedented outburst of faecal language.

***
Not blindly.
A.
***

And he posted
> hideous messages to cybalist admin.

***
That's the right place to do so, Möngi.
And the right place for your gaggithaler crap is a blog.
A.
***

He feels entitled to write
> the ugliest messages, considering himself a victim. He turns
> himself into a capital study case of online mobbing and stalking.
> (If Arnaud Fournet were a scholar deserving his PhD in linguistics
> and if he had valid new ideas not yet accepted by the linguistic
> community he would use the fantastic facility of the Usenet
> and freedom of sci.lang to propose his ideas and develop them,

***
That's not the place to do so, idiot.
The place to develop my ideas is Journals.
A.
***

> but the nonsense he told me - Mycenaean being older than
> Middle Helladic, sound 'laws' being not just rules but actual laws

> holding one hundred per cent - and the way he behaves online

> - confounding scatology with scientific arguments - make it clear
> that even 'amateur' is too nice a term for him, and that he has
> no valid ideas worth being developed.)

***
Proved false.
Look at my Academia.edu profile.
A.
***

>

> Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch
>

[gaggithaler crap deleted]

[yangg]

On Sep 23, 9:56 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> Readers of docendi.org : you can find the omitted messages
> via Google.
***
Lol
The world is eagerly waiting to read your gaggithaler crap.
A.
***

>

> Arnaud Fournet alias yangg is an amateur linguist. His claim
> to fame was a paper he wrote with Allan Bomhard, a real linguist.

***
Lol
Allan is more a comparatist than a linguist.

I wonder what a real linguist is.

A.
***

> However, Allan Bomhard retracted his contribution: "The Hurrian
> project was challenging when I was working on it with Arnaud,
> but, as time has passed and I have had a chance to think more
> on these issues, I have changed my mind. I no longer support
> any of the theories advanced or conclusions drawn in that work.

***
His real position expressed in a private mail is not as strong as it
sounds here.

I suppose he would not give up the idea that Hurrian and Urartean are
related for example.

A.
***

> / Allan" Which is the reason why Arnaud Fournet of the warped
> soul takes revenge on me, stalking me and leading a smear
> campaign.

***
Your own stupidity and incompetence are efficient enough for a smear
campaign against yourself.

A.
***

He popped up in sci.lang blindly attacking people with
> an unprecedented outburst of faecal language.

***
Not blindly.
A.
***

And he posted
> hideous messages to cybalist admin.

***
That's the right place to do so, Möngi.
And the right place for your gaggithaler crap is a blog.
A.
***

He feels entitled to write
> the ugliest messages, considering himself a victim. He turns
> himself into a capital study case of online mobbing and stalking.

> (If Arnaud Fournet were a scholar deserving his PhD in linguistics
> and if he had valid new ideas not yet accepted by the linguistic
> community he would use the fantastic facility of the Usenet
> and freedom of sci.lang to propose his ideas and develop them,
***
That's not the place to do so, idiot.
The place to develop my ideas is Journals.
A.
***


> but the nonsense he told me - Mycenaean being older than
> Middle Helladic, sound 'laws' being not just rules but actual laws
> holding one hundred per cent - and the way he behaves online
> - confounding scatology with scientific arguments - make it clear

> that even 'amateur' is too nice a term for him, and that he has

> no valid ideas worth being developed.)

***
Proved false.
Look at my Academia.edu profile.
A.
***

>

> Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch
>

[gaggithaler crap deleted]

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch

part 7) more etymologies

REO Rheia Rhea presided over the Amu Darya,
her husband CRE NOS Kronos Cronus over
the Alai Mountains and Pamir and Hindu Kush.
Later on, REO Rheia Rhea fled to the Aral Sea,
where she gave birth to Zeus, Magdalenian TYR
emphatic Middle Helladic Sseyr Doric Sseus
Homeric Zeus, Tiras in the Bible. Then she fled
further to the Volga whose ancient name was
Rha, another derivative of REO Rheia Rhea.
Her son PAD AD DA PAS TON, he who follows

rivers that flow toward the sea while coming from

the mountains, and wherever he comes to he
makes himself heard, Poteidas Poseidon, took
over the Amu Darya with all the tributaries.
Another son, KOD (DhAG) Hades, first presided
over the strongholds at Termez and Kunduz and
Kurgan, then over the copper-tin mines along
the Vakksh (and later over the Underworld).
The eagle was the emblematic animal of Zeus,
the horse was the emblematic animal of Poseidon,
and the dog was the emblematic animal of Hades.
Poseidon created the horse, the winged horse
Pegasus, from PAC AS, horse PAC upward AS,
emphatic PAC AS AS Pegasos Pegasus, horse
up up, personifying the summer wind Afghanetz
that blows from the Aral Sea along the Amu Darya
to the Hindu Kush. Inverse AS PAC became
Avestan aspa 'horse' and Sanskrit asva 'horse'.
PAC SA, horse PAC downward SA, named the
Vaksu, Indo-Aryan for the Amu Darya, wherefrom
Greek Oxos, and the main tributary Vakhsh,
the increasing river, mightily swelling in summer,
the flow rate increasing by a factor of ten or more
with the melt-waters of snow and glaciers - the
swollen river compared to a herd of horses rushing
down a valley ... The rivers may have been crossed
by means of reed rafts, perhaps also reed boats
comparable to the ones used by the Moche Indians
of northern Peru - present-day Peruvian fisherman
who use the same type of boat with a high prow,
made from bundled reed, call it caballito 'little horse'.
The horse got a new name in the second and third
IE homeland in the Uralic and Pontic steppes,
east and west of the Rha / Volga. The new name
was phonetically similar to the old one, PAC AS,
but semantically different: AC PAS, an expanse
of earth with water AC everywhere in a plain PAS,

here, south and north of me, east and west of me,
all in all five places, Greek pas pan 'all, every'

pente penta- 'five' - riding a horse you can get
everywhere PAS on earth AC ... The new name
AC PAS is present in *h1ekwos Greek hippos
Latin equus, and in the name of the Gallo-Roman
horse goddess Epona. Epona was an alter ego
of REO Rheia Rha. One of her main sanctuaries
was Alesia at the base of Mont Rhéa, near one
of the springs of the river Seine. Epona rode
a horse in lady fashion, accompanied by a bird,
a foal, and an eagle, reminding of the emblematic
animals of Zeus, an eagle, of Poseidon, a horse,
and of Hades, a dog.

(to be continued)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­--

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch

part 8) still more etymologies

The midwinter festival in the region of the Göbekli
Tepe lasted two and occasionally three days.
The last day was New Year's Eve, day and night
of the fire giver PIR GID and her fire archers
PIR RYT and their fire arrows dubbed 'fingers
of light and luck' DIG LIC shot into the dark sky
over the rivers that were named for them, PIR RYT
Purattu Firat Euphrates and DIG LIC Digle Tigris.
Much later, the cult of PIR GID and her fire archers
was alive in the Sistan Basin, where we find a place
called Phra (Farah) on the river Phrados, PIR RYT
Purattu Firat Eu-phrates Phrados. The fire giver
PIR GID provided the humans with fire for cooking,
and warming the house. Prometheus stole a much
hotter fire from the sun for melting copper. He used
a giant fennel-stalk. Imagine him standing on a high
mountain, and then, when the sun horse passes by,
he raises his stalk and strikes the sun horse, and
then, in order to make sure that his stalk really
cought fire, he stabs the sun horse a couple of times,
and as he is able, good in the sense of able, he
succeeds. Those actions are preserved in his name
PRO MOT DhAG Prometheus, to raise a club (or
here a giant fennel-stalk) and beat a target in front
PRO / to cut and clean a hide with a stone knive
MOT, wherefrom Latin moto 'I move back and forth',
here a giant fennel-stalk / able, good in the sense
of able DhAG. The home of Prometheus would have
been KOS PAC PIR Kaspapyros Kabura Cabura
Kabul, heavenly vault KOS horse PAC fire PIR,
home of Prometheus who stole fire from the sun
horse as it run across the heavenly vault. Centaur
derives from KOD TOR, tent hut KOD noise and
commotion as made by a bull TOR, then also bull
in motion - imagine the mineral miners on the Hindu
Kush in their hut-like mines, hammering away at
the rock, making noise as if a herd of bulls were
running by ... Cyclops derives from CO OC LOP,
attentive mind CO right eye OC palisade or wall LOP,
naming a stronghold enveloped in a palisade or wall,
guards with open eyes along the palisade, and in
the center the ruler of the attentive mind. The most
famous Cyclops was Polyphem, Homeric symbol
of Troy, his one eye the acropolis and his body
downtwon Troy VIIa that provided protected shelter
for 5,000 to 10,000 people. Laphitai Laphits derives
from LOP AD DA, a stronghold enveloped in a
palisade LOP on a river that flows toward AD the sea
while coming from DA the mountains. The dwellers

of the strongholds at Termez and Kunduz and Kurgan

would have been called ADI OC OC, noble wealthy
ADI right eye OC attentive mind CO, the noble and
wealthy ones who look about them with open eyes
and an attentive mind. Athaenae Athene helped
Perseus. Her name derives from AD DA NAI,
to find a good place for a camp NAI on the river
that flows toward AD the sea while coming from
DA the mountains. Termez and Kunduz and Kurgan
would have been very good places for strongholds.
By the way, Kunduz means 'old fort'. Another old
fort stood on the rocky elevation at Termez.

(to be continued)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Story of the first Indo-Europeans, a sketch

part 9) mythology

I developed my story of the first Indo-Europeans
in two directions, a) from the region I identified
as the first IE homeland, the banks of the Amu
Darya, from the Aral Sea to the Alai Mountains
and the Pamir and the Hindu Kush, and then from
the core of the first homeland, Termez and Kunduz
and Kurgan, considering the potential conflicts with
Afghanistan from the Hindu Kush to the Sistan
Basin, and b) from mythology, assuming that the
very first Indo-Europeans must have left a treasure
of stories that were told and retold in later times,
varied and modified, adapted to other regions and
eras, even projected all over the ancient world,
as far as Ethiopia in Africa, by then considered
the southern margin of the earth. My story of
Perseus combines what I identify as the very first
level of the Perseus myth and Jason myth with
the folk tale The Battle of the Birds in the version
of Joseph Jacobs who calls it the most fascinating
of all folk tales, going back to the very first Indo-
Aryans, wherever they came from. Further aspects
are provided by the deeds of Heracles. I am most
indebted to John Pinsent, Greek Mythology. The
three pictures of Medusa in representations from
the sixth century BC allowed me to identify Medusa
as the symbol not just of the Aral Sea but more
precisely of the marshes along the southern shores,
lapping at the fields of the early farmers (protruding
tongue), wind driven waves washing over the arable
soil (wrinkled nose evoking waves and eddies),
braking away the fields, uprooting the plants (her
pair of tusks) and digging new channels, perhaps
infesting them with sea-snakes (her snake hair).
Perseus beheading Medusa would then be a symbol
for building dams between the marshes and fields.
The second part of the Perseus story, with paralles
in the Jason myth and in the folk tale The Battle
of the Birds, would later have been projected to
ADI OC CO Aithiopia Ethiopia in Africa, the shift
from OC CO to op- also being present in the case

of AD TOR OC CO Mycenaean atoroqo Greek

anthropos 'human being', toward AD bull in motion
TOR right eye OC attentive mind CO, to face the
bull in motion with open eyes and focused mind,
to cope with fate, to take the bull by his horns,
ancient formula for the conditio humana, going
back to Magdalenian times. Also Jason faces
a pair of bulls in motion, symbolizing landslides
and river tsunamis along the Vakhsh, paralleled
by Andromeda facing the water monster but
heroically saved by Perseus.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Franz Gnaedinger]

story telling - repeating a part of a message
from my previous Magdalenian thread

These are preliminary studies for a story of the
first Indo-European homeland, told along the arrow
of time. The human mind loves stories. Rendering
a historical thesis, an art historical or archaeological
hypothesis in the form of a story or a fable has a big
advantage: implausibilities and gaps become obvious,
and one can remove or repair and fill them. I told my
first archaeological fable in early 1991. On the dies
academicus 1994 I won a prize by the university
of Zurich for a daring art historical hypothesis told
in the form of a fairy tale.

The natural sciences make predictions: if the
conditions are so and so, we can expect this and
this outcome. In the historical disciplines we make
retrodictions and can't design experiments. Rendering
a historical hypothesis in the form of a story told along
the arrow of time is a good substiution for an experiment.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Sep 13, 5:47 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Sep 13, 2:18 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> > I just can't work in peace!
>
> How do "stalkers" prevent you from typing as much as you want?

he should form his own Google Group. he can reject anyone that is fool
enough to join, and his posts would be archived by Google, as long as
Google archives, since he doesn't trust websites to last as long. and
he could capitalize letters as much as he wants and claim to be doing
to doing linguistics.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

That's a very good idea, but I don't suppose he'll take you up on it.
It might make it obvious even for him that no one is interested in his
"work".

--
athel

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Why do the barren minds feel they must make
the rules? Either go for one of my four Magdalenian
test cases, or keep away from my thread.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 25, 9:03 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> Why do the barren minds feel they must make
> the rules? Either go for one of my four Magdalenian
> test cases, or keep away from my thread.

There are no "rules," and it is not "your" thread.

As someone just pointed out, since for some reason your own website
isn't good enough for you, you could start your own google group.
There's a button for doing so on the "Groups Home" page.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Sep 25, 9:03 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> Why do the barren minds feel they must make
> the rules? Either go for one of my four Magdalenian
> test cases, or keep away from my thread.
>

people have responded to your "test cases' but you ddin't like the
answer. since you do not wish to have a dialogue and accept criticism
(and post accordingly) I sugext that you form your own "Google Group"

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Who is Peter T. Daniels? and what does he do
in my thread?

Who went for one of my test cases with scientific
arguments? If someone did, Yusuf, you can certainly
repeat the best argument. I mean scientific argument,
not a verdict dropped from above.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Sep 25, 5:19 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> Who is Peter T. Daniels? and what does he do
> in my thread?

this is an unmoderated NG, fortunately for you.

>
> Who went for one of my test cases with scientific
> arguments? If someone did, Yusuf, you can certainly
> repeat the best argument. I mean scientific argument,
> not a verdict dropped from above.
>

I remember people answering your arguments for "the furry one" and
"Zeus / Deus / Theos", but you didn't like the result.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Sep 26, 12:46 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 25, 5:19 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> > Who is Peter T. Daniels? and what does he do
> > in my thread?
>
> this is an unmoderated NG, fortunately for you.

I did research on that Peter T. Daniels and found out
that he posted as grammatim and as Peter a total
of nearly 48,000 messages, mostly quips of a few lines.
Luckily for him this is an unmoderated group. The header
of his messages alone are more than all I ever posted
and will post until June 24, 2035, when I shall pass
away, as my astrologer predicted.

> > Who went for one of my test cases with scientific
> > arguments? If someone did, Yusuf, you can certainly
> > repeat the best argument. I mean scientific argument,
> > not a verdict dropped from above.
>
> I remember people answering your arguments for "the furry one" and
> "Zeus / Deus / Theos", but you didn't like the result.

Yes, I remember that too, and I can give a more precise
answer. I had been told time and again that my views
are not the same as the ones given in the textbooks
and therefore wrong. That is a meta-argument, not
a scientific argument. Textbooks are not the Quran,
the word of God-given truth. The only one who gave
a halfway scientific answer to my first test case,
bear as the furry one versus bear as the brown one,
was Harlan Messinger, but he delivered it in such
a convoluted way that I had to ask back for two years
what he really means until he finally conceded that
English bear might actually go back to a root meaning
fur. The vast majority of you don't like Magdalenian.
In all those years you could have formulated a counter-
argument, a scientific argument, but all you do is spout
invectives and insults and ad hominems and refer to
textbooks and drop verdicts from above. Telling me
that I should consult textbooks is not enough. You
have to bring up better arguments for your view
or the PIE view than I bring up for my Magdalenian
test cases. How many times did I tell this? always
in vain. When notorious James Harris published
yet one more version of his prime sieve and proof
of Fermat's Last Conjecture / Theorem in sci.math,
a knowledgeable mathematician went through his
lines and showed where he went wrong. You can't
do that because mathematics is based on actual
laws but linguistics isn't, and I show that to you,
and you don't like it, but you can't change it,
no matter how many yanggs pop up in sci.lang
and erupt in scatological fits. If you believe there
was a scientific argument against my view in one
of my test cases, you have to remember it verbatim,
and tell me. You have to do at least that much.
Everything else it not scientific. Most of what is
going on in sci.lang is a never ending meta- and
meta-meta- and meta-meta-meta-discussion.
Most of you are unable and unwilling of leading
a scientific discussion on the scientific level.
On meta-levels most of you feel omnipotent,
but when you should argue on the scientific level
most of you fail.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 25, 10:33 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Sep 26, 12:46 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 25, 5:19 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> > > Who is Peter T. Daniels? and what does he do
> > > in my thread?
>
> > this is an unmoderated NG, fortunately for you.
>
> I did research on that Peter T. Daniels and found out
> that he posted as grammatim and as Peter a total

Of course I never posted as different individuals. Neither my name nor
my email identification has changed in all this time.

> of nearly 48,000 messages, mostly quips of a few lines.

And that is how the culture of newsgroups works. Newsgroups are not
the place for interminable essays (and endless repetitions) -- the
venue for such things is _blogs_.

> You
> have to bring up better arguments for your view
> or the PIE view than I bring up for my Magdalenian
> test cases. How many times did I tell this? always
> in vain.

No, that is not how it works. It is up to the challenger to _disprove_
a hypothesis, not up to the supporters to "prove" a hypothesis,
something that cannot be done. (That is how _science_ works.) If the
challenger then offers what he thinks is a better hypothesis, he must
indicate what it would take to _disprove_ it, and then see whether
anyone can find the disproof.

[pauljk]

"Franz Gnaedinger" <fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote in message
news:40dc58d2-e512-440f...@k10g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...

> On Sep 26, 12:46 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 25, 5:19 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>> > Who is Peter T. Daniels? and what does he do
>> > in my thread?

This is not "your thread".

>> this is an unmoderated NG, fortunately for you.
>
> I did research on that Peter T. Daniels and found out
> that he posted as grammatim and as Peter a total
> of nearly 48,000 messages, mostly quips of a few lines.
> Luckily for him this is an unmoderated group. The header
> of his messages alone are more than all I ever posted
> and will post until June 24, 2035, when I shall pass
> away, as my astrologer predicted.

You told us some years ago that your astrologer also told
you that some "young people" will get very interested in
your theories and will get seriously involved in your "project"
in 2011.

So, where are they?
It's only three months to go.
If they don't show up, is there any point in hanging around 'till 2035?

pjk

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Sep 26, 6:43 am, "pauljk" <paul.kr...@clear.net.nz> wrote:
> "Franz Gnaedinger" <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote in message

>
> This is not "your thread".

I agree. It is not "your thread" for it is mine.

> You told us some years ago that your astrologer also told
> you that some "young people" will get very interested in
> your theories and will get seriously involved in your "project"
> in 2011.

Astrologers are always right, also and especially when
they are wrong. Astrology works beyond the rational level,
and yet can be very rational, at least in the case of my
astrologer - by telling me that a couple will stumble over
my work in 2011 or 12 and be fascinated she encouraged
me and made me go on; without her long look into her Fine
Magic Crystal Ball (tradem. reg.) I might have given up.
She made me go on, and then it might happen that
someone really will get interested in my work and make
her prediction come true. A couple of weeks ago
I had been contacted by an Indian who works at
a geological institute in Turkey, and he told me that
he is a big fan of Magdalenian, whereupon I strongly
advised him n o t to show up in sci.lang for all the dirt
that is hurled around in here. Apart from that, can you go
for one of my four test cases? no? I thought so.

> So, where are they?
> It's only three months to go.
> If they don't show up, is there any point in hanging around 'till 2035?

My work, and my wealth in ideas, and the doors opened
by my insights make me go on. While you hang around
in sci.lang, having little or nothing to say about language.
Why don't you go to facebook and found a social sci.lang
group there, so you can chat all day long without having
to say something of a scientific value? Do it there,
not here. This is a scientific forum, where arguments
count, not meta-babble. Endless meta- and meta-meta-
and meta-meta-meta-discussions are the drag of the
scientific groups on Usenet.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 26, 1:11 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Sep 26, 6:43 am, "pauljk" <paul.kr...@clear.net.nz> wrote:
> > "Franz Gnaedinger" <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote in message
>
> > This is not "your thread".
>
> I agree. It is not "your thread" for it is mine.

Hmm, have you been reading the science fiction of Samuel R. Delaney?

> > You told us some years ago that your astrologer also told
> > you that some "young people" will get very interested in
> > your theories and will get seriously involved in your "project"
> > in 2011.
>
> Astrologers are always right, also and especially when
> they are wrong. Astrology works beyond the rational level,
> and yet can be very rational, at least in the case of my
> astrologer - by telling me that a couple will stumble over
> my work in 2011 or 12 and be fascinated she encouraged
> me and made me go on; without her long look into her Fine
> Magic Crystal Ball (tradem. reg.) I might have given up.

?? Astrologers don't use crystal balls, whether "Fine Magic" ones or
otherwise.

You were scammed, so she was neither "always right" nor "wrong."

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Sep 26, 1:16 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> ?? Astrologers don't use crystal balls, whether "Fine Magic" ones or
> otherwise.

Mine does. I visited her in the late 1990s and asked her
whether anyone will ever be interested in my work. She lit
a candle, drew the curtains, had a long look into her crystal
ball, sighed, and said I am a hopeless case, nobody will be
interested in my work, not until perhaps 2011 or 12 when
a young couple will find it and be fascinated by my ideas.
Whether she is right or wrong, rong or wright, her advice
helped me go on.

> You were scammed, so she was neither "always right" nor "wrong."

As I said, astrologers are always right, also and especially
when they are wrong. In 1999 Madame Teissier predicted
that in the summer of 2000 an asteroid will fall on Paris,
and if not, she will never write and publish any horoscope
anymore. Did an asteroid fall on Paris in the summer of
2000? No. Did Madame Teissier stop writing astrological
horoscopes and publish them at the end of every year
in certain Swiss journals? No, of course not, it is her noble
duty to warn us of the next asteroids that will fall on Paris.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 26, 7:44 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Sep 26, 1:16 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:

> > ?? Astrologers don't use crystal balls, whether "Fine Magic" ones or
> > otherwise.
>
> Mine does. I visited her in the late 1990s and asked her
> whether anyone will ever be interested in my work. She lit
> a candle, drew the curtains, had a long look into her crystal
> ball,

What do you think "astrologer" means?

> sighed, and said I am a hopeless case, nobody will be
> interested in my work, not until perhaps 2011 or 12 when
> a young couple will find it and be fascinated by my ideas.
> Whether she is right or wrong, rong or wright, her advice
> helped me go on.
>
> > You were scammed, so she was neither "always right" nor "wrong."
>
> As I said, astrologers are always right, also and especially
> when they are wrong. In 1999 Madame Teissier predicted
> that in the summer of 2000 an asteroid will fall on Paris,
> and if not, she will never write and publish any horoscope
> anymore. Did an asteroid fall on Paris in the summer of
> 2000? No. Did Madame Teissier stop writing astrological
> horoscopes and publish them at the end of every year
> in certain Swiss journals? No, of course not, it is her noble
> duty to warn us of the next asteroids that will fall on Paris.

If she was your astrologer, why did she "look" (we say "gaze") "into
her crystal ball" rather than cast your horoscope?

What do you mean by "writing astrological horoscopes and publish them
at the end of every year"? Any horoscope pertains to a specific moment
in time and a specific place in the universe (or rather, in the solar
system, since it's a highly geocentric practice). It would be
senseless to publish a bunch of them once a year.

[pauljk]

"Franz Gnaedinger" <fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote in message

news:f4a1135d-5838-4185...@q25g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...

> On Sep 26, 1:16 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> ?? Astrologers don't use crystal balls, whether "Fine Magic" ones or
>> otherwise.
>
> Mine does.

Then she was a seer who sees future in the crystal ball,
not astrologer who uses star-charts, hence the name.

> I visited her in the late 1990s and asked her
> whether anyone will ever be interested in my work. She lit
> a candle, drew the curtains, had a long look into her crystal
> ball, sighed, and said I am a hopeless case, nobody will be
> interested in my work, not until perhaps 2011 or 12 when
> a young couple will find it and be fascinated by my ideas.
> Whether she is right or wrong, rong or wright, her advice
> helped me go on.

Your seer was right, you are a hopeless case.

>> You were scammed, so she was neither "always right" nor "wrong."
>
> As I said, astrologers are always right, also and especially
> when they are wrong. In 1999 Madame Teissier predicted
> that in the summer of 2000 an asteroid will fall on Paris,
> and if not, she will never write and publish any horoscope
> anymore. Did an asteroid fall on Paris in the summer of
> 2000? No. Did Madame Teissier stop writing astrological
> horoscopes and publish them at the end of every year
> in certain Swiss journals? No, of course not, it is her noble
> duty to warn us of the next asteroids that will fall on Paris.

pjk

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Sep 26, 3:05 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> If she was your astrologer, why did she "look" (we say "gaze") "into
> her crystal ball" rather than cast your horoscope?

You didn't believe me when I told you that my astrologer
uses a very special crystal ball, the Fine Magic Crystal
Ball (trademark registered), with an imprinted Zodiac in
form of density fluctuations achieved in a neutron chamber
at the CERN - they make good money there, at Geneva,
but don't advertise their product, out of understandable
reasons. In all probability you also won't believe this,
but astrology works only for believers.

> What do you mean by "writing astrological horoscopes and publish them
> at the end of every year"? Any horoscope pertains to a specific moment
> in time and a specific place in the universe (or rather, in the solar
> system, since it's a highly geocentric practice). It would be
> senseless to publish a bunch of them once a year.

Many of our magazines publish horoscopes for the
New Year in Dezember, and prominently so the ones
by Madame Teissier, for her good looks, you can see
her smile at you from all the covers.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 26, 11:00 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Sep 26, 3:05 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:

> > If she was your astrologer, why did she "look" (we say "gaze") "into
> > her crystal ball" rather than cast your horoscope?
>
> You didn't believe me when I told you that my astrologer
> uses a very special crystal ball,

[António Marques]

Franz Gnaedinger wrote (26-09-2011 03:33):
> On Sep 26, 12:46 am, Yusuf B Gursey<ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 25, 5:19 pm, Franz Gnaedinger<f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Who is Peter T. Daniels? and what does he do in my thread?
>>
>> this is an unmoderated NG, fortunately for you.
>
> I did research on that Peter T. Daniels and found out that he posted as
> grammatim and as Peter a total of nearly 48,000 messages, mostly quips of
> a few lines. Luckily for him this is an unmoderated group.

'Moderation' doesn't mean you have to moderate the _number_ of your messages.

[Paul Madarasz]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 04:16:02 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote, perhaps among other things:

>On Sep 26, 1:11 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>> On Sep 26, 6:43 am, "pauljk" <paul.kr...@clear.net.nz> wrote:
>> > "Franz Gnaedinger" <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote in message
>>
>> > This is not "your thread".
>>
>> I agree. It is not "your thread" for it is mine.
>
>Hmm, have you been reading the science fiction of Samuel R. Delaney?

Who, by the way, was interviewed yesterday on "To The Best of Our
Knowledge". Very interesting (at least to me).
--
"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."
-- Ed Abbey

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Sep 26, 5:44 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> What do you think "astrologer" means?

My astrologer studied classical astrology at a school
near Cambridge, but she also uses complementary
methods, crystal ball, cards, even letter soup.
Does this answer your question? can we return
to a topic of language now please?

[António Marques]

Franz Gnaedinger wrote (26-09-2011 12:44):
> On Sep 26, 1:16 pm, "Peter T. Daniels"<gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> ?? Astrologers don't use crystal balls, whether "Fine Magic" ones or
>> otherwise.
>
> Mine does. I visited her in the late 1990s and asked her
> whether anyone will ever be interested in my work. She lit
> a candle, drew the curtains, had a long look into her crystal
> ball, sighed, and said I am a hopeless case, nobody will be
> interested in my work, not until perhaps 2011 or 12 when
> a young couple will find it and be fascinated by my ideas.

She didn't undress at some point, lube herself in oil and roll all over you?
You should ask your money back.

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

testing...

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

I tried to answer Antonio, but I am not seeing the answer. There is
again something wrong with Google groups.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

stalking on Usenet (Panu Petteri Höglund
and his stable full of aliasses)

My first longtime online stalker Marie Jean Faucounau
alias grapheus (alias Rosemary) followed me around
from 2001 till June 2005 (when I left his expensive
lawyer no other option than to silence him). But my
peace didn't last long. In the early spring of 2006
I was attacked out of the blue by what became my
second longtime online stalker: Panu Petteri Höglund
alias John Bulkington alias Patrick Karl alias craoibhin66
alias he himself as his own good friend and pupil Sean
Connor soconn1 alias he himself as his own brother in
arms and stalking aide John Hobart Kyle jhobartkyle
johnk alias he himself as his own bride Annina Kaartinen
alias a Rumanian professor who claims to have
discovered the origin of language alias he himself as
his own bride Maria Kupari alias esperanto doctoro
alias John Karl alias Scott Turner (who claimed to be
my first stalker posting from the beyond) alias some
metastases of the craoibhin alias, videlicet Pantokrator
'ruler of everything', Zurga Elphastor, Callous Killer,
Der psychopathische Entdärmer 'the psychopathic
eviscerator', and some Irish names, most frequently
Fánaí Gaelach na nGleannta, furthermore Joe Jabrone,
and The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow
Army ('shadow army' being one of my terms for his
many aliases). Here is what he wrote as Panu in my
thread "Google company: sci.lang is flooded with porn
and other ads" on July 10, 2010, 7:39 and 7:44 a.m.:

I have lots of ideas what I could do if I had you
and a good long sharp knife. However, because
of unjust laws I can't put my ideas into practice.

And when I say "unjust laws" I mean the very
deplorable fact that legally, Franz is still a human
being with rights, and I can't slaughter him without
being condemned as a murderer. But I hate him
so much that I find it very difficult to see him
as a fellow human being.

Panu Petteri Höglund can feel himself and be
someone only in the act of aggression. He never
established a positive identity on Usenet. Before
he began attacking me out of the blue in early
2006 he posted ugly messages to soc.men,
attacking women. He attended three universities,
apparently to no avail. He got a burning ambition
but no ideas and nothing to say beyond a little
textbook half-knowledge. Years ago he wrote
that he is fascinated by the various grammars,
but he never opened a grammar thread. He brags
to speak better Irish than 99 per cent of the Irish,
but he can't start and maintain an Irish thread,
instead he drops Irish-for-beginners titbits into
my Magdalenian thread, for the sole purpose of
molesting and harassing me and disrupting my work.

Experts on stalking say that a narcissistic stalker
is best ignored while an aggressive stalker must be
fought hard, in a decided manner. I do it by exposing
their ways, by working double as much, by insisting
on my qualities and abilities - wealth in ideas,
intuition and apperception own to a well organized
knowledge (as opposed to a nonfunctional textbook
half-knowledge), originality and courage -, and by
showing others how they can develop the same
qualities and abilities.

If you happen to be a victim of online mobbing and
stalking: your adversaries crave something precious
about you. Find out what it is, and share it with
worthy people.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Why do the barren minds feel they must make
> the rules? Either go for one of my four Magdalenian
> test cases, or keep away from my thread.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

On 23 Sep, 13:50, António Marques <antonio...@sapo.pt> wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote (23-09-2011 11:08):
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2011-09-23 09:44:38 +0200, yangg said:
>
> >> On Sep 23, 2:08 am, DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Minor question of word usage. Amateur means not paid.  Have you ever
> >>> actually made some money from being a linguist ?
>
> >>> I know this is a quibble and the meaning of the word "amateur" is
> >>> changing.  I am curious just how an unbiased person would red this
> >>> exchange.
> >> ***
>
> >> In French amateur would rather mean "half competent" rather than
> >> "unpaid"
>
> > I think it pretty much does in English as well. Most academics sometimes
> > find themselves having to give lectures on things outside their specialist
> > subjects, and if I say, for example, "I'm a bit of an amateur when it comes
> > to lipid metabolism" no one would suppose that I'm not going to get paid for
> > that particular lecture. On the other hand if Franz managed to earn a Swiss
> > franc by selling an article about his Magdalenian fantasies to a local
> > newspaper that wouldn't affect his status as an amateur in virtually all
> > domains.
>
> 'Amateur' is the opposite of 'professional', and 'professional' has a
> complex meaning. Whether one's paid and/or skilled and/or recognised by a
> union are all factors. Sometimes, one of those factors can be enough to
> in/validate the classification.

I don't think Franz is even an amateur linguist in any meaningful
sense. He is not a linguist in the sense of knowing many languages, or
taking a lively interest in languages. Détesteur linguist would be
more to the point, if there is such a word.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 26, 1:10 pm, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army

<craoibhi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I tried to answer Antonio, but I am not seeing the answer. There is
> again something wrong with Google groups.

It might be your interface. I see three messages from you today (this
being the last).

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Panu Petteri Höglund just can't keep away from me.
He is stalking me for five and a half years now.
That man, or whatever it is, got no purpose in life.

[António Marques]

Ahh, but for once we were not discussing Franz.

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

I see there is again something wrong with Google Groups, mine aren't
updating.

[yangg]

On Sep 26, 4:33 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Sep 26, 12:46 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 25, 5:19 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> > > Who is Peter T. Daniels? and what does he do
> > > in my thread?
>
> > this is an unmoderated NG, fortunately for you.
>
> I did research on that Peter T. Daniels and found out
> that he posted as grammatim and as Peter a total
> of nearly 48,000 messages, mostly quips of a few lines.

>4

***

I wonder how many "stalkers" you count at this point, Möngi.

A.

[yangg]

On Sep 26, 5:00 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Sep 26, 3:05 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > If she was your astrologer, why did she "look" (we say "gaze") "into
> > her crystal ball" rather than cast your horoscope?
>
> You didn't believe me when I told you that my astrologer
> uses a very special crystal ball, the Fine Magic Crystal
> Ball (trademark registered), with an imprinted Zodiac in
> form of density fluctuations achieved in a neutron chamber
> at the CERN - they make good money there, at Geneva,
> but don't advertise their product, out of understandable
> reasons. In all probability you also won't believe this,
> but astrology works only for believers.
>

***

Your gaggithaler crap travels much, much slower than light.

A.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Hurrian

Arnaud Fournet alias yangg, Ph.D. and stalker, tells me
there is no online stalking. Meanwhile he goes on
stalking me in the most aggressive and ugly manner.
What can I do? I shall focus on Hurrian, his field of study.

Scato (Arnaud Fournet of the scatological vocabulary)
identified Indo-European elements in Hurrian. He even
dazed Allan Bomhard, if only for a while. Scato is
either wrong or not bold enough. The alledged IE
elements are Magdalenian. I shall start a new series
of messages on Serri and Hurri, Teshub and Turhan,
king Tarhuntaradu from Arzawa, Taruwisa / Truwisa
(Troy), etc., hurrying from Hurrian to other Anatolian
languages.

Copro (Arnaud Fournet of the coprological vocabulary)
deciphered the Phaistos Disc in a language he calls
Phaisto-Hurrian. My first longtime online stalker
Marie Jean Faucounau alias grapheus stalked me
over his Phaistos Disc decipherment in Proto-Ionian.
The Phaistos Disc was deciphered for good by
Derk Ohlenroth, in Middle Helladic Greek. (Copro
told me that Mycenaean is older than Middle Helladic,
delivering his 'intelligence' with a usual insult for
a flourish). The oldest name of Zeus on the Phaistos
Disc will allow me to go for Hurrian, as you shalll
see tomorrow. The Phaistos Disc deciphered by
Derk Ohlenroth opens a window on the past;
the other decipherments are windows painted
on the wall.

The aim of this thread was to tell the story of the
first Indo-Europeans. Having already told my story,
a sketch in nine concise messages, I will now
devote the rest of my thread to the sinking of
Scato & Copro Inc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[yangg]

On Sep 26, 6:51 pm, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army

> more to the point, if there is such a word.-
**

I think amateurish mythomaniac is the correct characterization.

A.

[yangg]

On Sep 26, 8:55 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> Hurrian
>
> Arnaud Fournet alias yangg, Ph.D. and stalker, tells me
> there is no online stalking. Meanwhile he goes on
> stalking me in the most aggressive and ugly manner.
> What can I do? I shall focus on Hurrian, his field of study.
>

***

You confuse disagreement and stalking.

Anybody who exposes your crap becomes a "stalker".

A.
***

> Scato (Arnaud Fournet of the scatological vocabulary)
> identified Indo-European elements in Hurrian. He even
> dazed Allan Bomhard, if only for a while. Scato is
> either wrong or not bold enough. The alledged IE
> elements are Magdalenian. I shall start a new series
> of messages on Serri and Hurri, Teshub and Turhan,
> king Tarhuntaradu from Arzawa, Taruwisa / Truwisa
> (Troy), etc., hurrying from Hurrian to other Anatolian
> languages.

***

ok

This promises to be a lot of fun.

I'm eager to fathom how deep you can sink.

A.
***

>
> Copro (Arnaud Fournet of the coprological vocabulary)
> deciphered the Phaistos Disc in a language he calls
> Phaisto-Hurrian. My first longtime online stalker
> Marie Jean Faucounau alias grapheus stalked me
> over his Phaistos Disc decipherment in Proto-Ionian.
> The Phaistos Disc was deciphered for good by
> Derk Ohlenroth, in Middle Helladic Greek. (Copro
> told me that Mycenaean is older than Middle Helladic,
> delivering his 'intelligence' with a usual insult for
> a flourish). The oldest name of Zeus on the Phaistos
> Disc will allow me to go for Hurrian, as you shalll
> see tomorrow. The Phaistos Disc deciphered by
> Derk Ohlenroth opens a window on the past;
> the other decipherments are windows painted
> on the wall.
>
> The aim of this thread was to tell the story of the
> first Indo-Europeans. Having already told my story,
> a sketch in nine concise messages, I will now
> devote the rest of my thread to the sinking of
> Scato & Copro Inc.
>

***

Was to tell
having told ??

I did not notice anything of that kind.

A.

[yangg]

On Sep 26, 7:11 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> My work, and my wealth in ideas, and the doors opened
> by my insights make me go on.

***

Lol.

A.
***

While you hang around
> in sci.lang, having little or nothing to say about language.
> Why don't you go to facebook and found a social sci.lang
> group there, so you can chat all day long without having
> to say something of a scientific value? Do it there,
> not here.

***

Very good idea. Please proceed.

You seem to understand the problem(s) you are causing here.

A.
***

This is a scientific forum, where arguments
> count, not meta-babble. Endless meta- and meta-meta-
> and meta-meta-meta-discussions are the drag of the
> scientific groups on Usenet.

***

mytho-mytho-babble, in your case.

A.

[yangg]

On Sep 26, 1:44 pm, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Sep 26, 1:16 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > ?? Astrologers don't use crystal balls, whether "Fine Magic" ones or
> > otherwise.
>
> Mine does. I visited her in the late 1990s and asked her
> whether anyone will ever be interested in my work. She lit
> a candle, drew the curtains, had a long look into her crystal
> ball, sighed, and said I am a hopeless case, nobody will be
> interested in my work, not until perhaps 2011 or 12 when
> a young couple will find it and be fascinated by my ideas.
> Whether she is right or wrong, rong or wright, her advice
> helped me go on.

***

Your money also helped her go on.

A.
***

>
> > You were scammed, so she was neither "always right" nor "wrong."
>
> As I said, astrologers are always right, also and especially
> when they are wrong. In 1999 Madame Teissier predicted
> that in the summer of 2000 an asteroid will fall on Paris,
> and if not, she will never write and publish any horoscope
> anymore. Did an asteroid fall on Paris in the summer of
> 2000? No. Did Madame Teissier stop writing astrological
> horoscopes and publish them at the end of every year
> in certain Swiss journals? No, of course not, it is her noble
> duty to warn us of the next asteroids that will fall on Paris.

***

That nearly makes your gaggithaler crap sound like serious stuff.

A.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Serri and Hurri (part 1)

Serri and Hurri were the sacred bulls of the supreme
Hittite weather god Teshub "Dieu du Temps Celeste"
who stood on the mountains Nanni and Hazzi, the
latter Mount Cassius or Casius in Hurrian country.
The Hurrians or Khurrites came from Armenia and
wandered to Syria and were non-Indo-Europeans
ruled by Indo-European nobles. The Hittites were Indo-
Europeans who came from the north or east, conquered
the non-Indo-European Hatti and adopted their name.
The Hittites had a wide pantheon of a proverbial
one thousand gods and goddesses from various
peoples including the Hurrians, for example Serri
and Hurri and Teshub ... All these complicated
historical relations can be ignored from the vantage
point of Magdalenian. I just look out for the earliest
level in the names of gods and goddesses and kings
and their peoples.

Let us begin with the Serri bull of Teshub.

Derk Ohlenroth deciphered the Phaistos Disc
for good. The language is Middle Helladic Greek.
Most surprising is the name of Zeus, the oldest
version we have until now, and it isn't close to
hypothetical *diaeus or so, it is: Sseyr, given by
a star of eight points, phonetical value emphatic
Ss, by a male profile with a tattoo resembling
an 8 on the cheek, a heavenly or divine upper
circle and an earthly or human lower circle,
phonetical value Ey, and by an ear of grain,
phonetical value R, together SsEyR or Sseyr.
The three ideograms tell a long story and
provide plenty of information on the Argolis
in the Middle Helladic period of time, on which,
Derk Ohlenroth told me in one of his long letters,
we still know very little. He attested me an eros
of understanding, and I praised his marvellous
decipherment as a real window on the past.
Here I wont speak of the Argolis, but will use
the oldest Zeus name Sseyr for delving far back
in time. The origin of this name, I postulate, was
Magdalenian TYR meaning overcomer, as verb
to overcome in the double sense of rule and give,
Magdalenian TYR emphatic Middle Helladic
Sseyr (Phaistos Disc, Derk Ohlenroth) Doric
Sseus (Wilhelm Larfeld) Homeric Zeus. We find
the overcomer in the form of Tiras in the Bible.
He is present in the Armenian sun archer Tir,
a deitiy of the Bronze Age (androgynous, both
man and woman). And we find him in Tyros /
Syria, where another shift from a dental to
a sibliant occurred. One of the chief witnesses
to the Vasconic theory of early language
are rivers called Dourio, Dordogne, Durance,
or the river Thur in the Swiss Canton of Zurich,
to name but a few examples. The Roman name
of Zurich was Turicum, going back, I claim,
to a much older name used by the Neolithic
dwellers of the region, TYR AC, he who
overcomes in the double sense of rule and
give TYR an expanse of land with water AC,
overcomer of the land, very appropriate for
the river that flooded the wide valley at the
end of the lake in many river arms, ruling
the life of the early dwellers, providing them
with water for irrigating the fields, and with fish
- ruling and giving at the same time. TYR Sseyr
Sseus Zeus was originally a bull, the weather
bull, just like Jupitter Jupiter Jovis Giove,
formerly the Neolithic bull worshipped around
Mont Bégo in southeastern France (Vallée
des Merveilles), his name from ShA PAD TYR,
ruler ShA activity of feet PAD to overcome in
the double sense of rule and give TYR, the ruler
who goes ahead and overcomes in the double
sense of rule and give. Another possible origin
is DhAG PAD TYR, the ShA replaced by DhAG
meaning able, good in the sense of able.
Sseyr on the Phaistos Disc has a close parallel
in the name of Mount Seir in the Negev, home
of Jahwe, a storm god, rider of clouds, at least
once represented as a bull (bronze figurine
of a bull from a sanctuary on top of a hill near
Samaria). And from here we can conclude
that the Serri bull of the Hurrians or Khurrites
and later the Hittites was the same weather bull,
however, no longer in the supreme position
but subordinated to the god of the sky and
weather Teshub, a circumstance we may
ponder later on. (Also in a later message the
longest name or title of the overcomer TYR.)

Next time: the Hurri bull

---------------------------------------------------------------

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Serri and Hurri (part 2)

TYR was the Bronze Age god, while AAR RAA NOS
was the god of the Neolithic, mind NOS of the one
composed of air AAR and light RAA, visualized
ex negativo by the big limestone ring on the Göbekli
Tepe: http://www.seshat.ch/home/ouranos.JPG
AAR RAA NOS became the Greek sky god Ouranos
Uranus and the Vedic sky god Varuna. He is present
in the names of many valleys of western Europe,
which names, by the way, are the other chief witness
to the Vasconic theory of early language, for example
Val d'Aran, Arundel, or Val d'Hérens in the Swiss Alps.
The god is also present in rivers that are filled with
rain from the heavenly vault KOS and make the
rivers REO flow, AAR RAA KOS Araxes in Armenia
and AAR RAA REO Arura Aare in Switzerland.
He gave his name to the Aral Sea, from AAR RAA )
or AAR RAA L, the heavenly Lord composed of air
AAR and light RAA has the say ) or L. He was the
Lord on top of a heavenly ladder who appeared to
Ja'qob sleeping in the wilderness, AS AAR ) or
AS RAA L Israel, he who saw the Lord up above
AS (on top of the heavenly ladder) in an aureole
of light RAA, and the Lord spoke to Ja'qob ) or L
wherefrom El while the longer form )OG or LOG
became Elohim, also Allah and Greek logos.
Israel was the byname of Ja'qob or Jacob who
was on his way to Harran or Haran, a derivative
of AAR RAA NOS in the variation of CA AAR RAA,
the one composed of air AAR and light RAA in the
sky CA. Harran or Haran is about forty kilometers
south of the Göbekli Tepe. The Neolithic began
in the region of the Göbekli Tepe, some 12,000
years ago, and spread from there in all directions.
NOS AAR RAA Noah followed the mind NOS
of the one composed of air AAR and light RAA,
left the region of the Göbekli Tepe and wandered
with his people along the river Euphrates, in both
directions, a) toward Sumer, where he founded
AAR RAA CA Uruk Erech, the town presided over
by the heavenly Lord, Uruk of the cattle enclosure,
Noah's Ark, and b) toward Armenia where he and
his people settled in the plain north of Mount Ararat,
Armenia deriving from AAR RAA MAN, they who
carry out the will of the heavenly Lord composed
of air AAR and light RAA with their right hand MAN,
and Ararat deriving from AAR RAA RYT, abode
of the heavenly protector, RYT meaning spear
thrower, archer, Greek rhytaer 'archer, protector'
inverse TYR meaning overcomer, as verb to

overcome in the double sense of rule and give,

accounting for the (androgynous) sun archer Tir
of the Armenian Bronze Age. AAR RAA MAN
is also present in the Val d'Héremence in the
Swiss Alps, joining the Val d'Hérens whose
name derives from the original AAR RAA NOS.
Back to Asia Minor. AAR RAA MAN named also
Aram, a grandson of Noah, and the Aramaeans.
AAR RAA BRA, they who carry out the will of
the one composed of air AAR and light RAA,
explains Arab Arabs, while Abram Abraham
derives from ABA BRA, he who carries out
the will of the (heavenly) father ABA with his
right arm BRA. Brahman goes back to BRA MAN,
he who created the world playing his lyra with his
right arm BRA and his right hand MAN. Muruku
from Harappa goes back to AAR RAA CA, the one
composed of air AAR and light RAA in the sky CA
presides over AAR RAA AD DA Harappa, the town
on the river that flows toward AD the Arabic Sea
while coming from DA the Himalayas (AD DA being
a generic formula for a river, also present in Indus).
Muruku, postulated by Asko Parpola, became
Tamil Murukan. The same AAR RAA CA is present
in the Egyptian Horus falcon whose eyes were moon
and sun, while AAR RAA AC names Horakhty,
Horus on the horizon, referring to the rising moon
and sun in the east and the setting moon and sun
in the west, AC naming an expanse of land with
water. RAA meaning light accounts for the Egyptian
god Ra who manifested himself in the sun, while
AAR meaning air has a correspondence in German
Aar 'eagle'. The name Urartu, a kingdom on Lake Van,
is akin to Ararat, famous mountain in Armenia. We
derived Ararat from AAR RAA RYT. Now for Hurri,
the god in the guise of a bull. The name derives from
the variation CA AAR RAA that would also explain
the name of the Hurrians, they who worship the
Lord of air AAR and light RAA in the sky CA,
they who worship the heavenly one CA made of
air AAR and light RAA, while Khurrites may go back
to CA AAR RAA DhAG, the new word DhAG meaning

able, good in the sense of able.

Next time: Paleolithic origin of the Hurri bull

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Serri and Hurri (part 3)

The sky god in the double guise of a bull and a man
is a very ancient idea. The big limestone ring on
the Göbekli Tepe makes him appear in the hollow,
a male head consisting of air and light, with a mind
and a will of his own, AAR RAA NOS, mind NOS
of the one consisting of air AAR and light RAA
http://www.seshat.ch/ouranos.JPG
The central pillars of temple D represent a woman
and a man, or rather the female and male triad,
the latter in the form of a bucranium, the ring of
the head again AAR RAA NOS
http://www.seshat.ch/home/gt01.GIF
The stone pillar temples A B C D are 11,600
years old. The wall opposite the entrance of
a 12,000 years old house and gathering place
in the region of the Göbekli Tepe was adorned
with the skull of a bull. We may assume that
he was worshipped as the sky god.

Anthropologically, gods and goddesses are
venerated ancestors who were remembered
for a long time, idealized and deified and raised
into the sky. We can see this turning point,
where a man is to become a god, in the Chauvet
cave whose paintings and drawings and carvings
and ideograms are between 32'000 and 30,000
years old. On a stalactite in the rear hall appears
the drawing of a woman, visible are her legs
and her large pubic triangle, to her left a lion,
leaving, to her right side a bison, his fore legs
joining her legs, his head before her womb.
The bison is the bull man, the supreme leader
of the Lower Rhone Valley. He will be born again
by the goddess in the sky, in the region of the
Summer Triangle Deneb Vega Atair. (Michael
Janda, eminent PIE and IE scholar, relying on
his studies of the Rig Veda, postulates a Stone
Age belief in a heavenly abode somewhere
along the Milky Way.) On a wall of the Brunel
chamber is a large ideogram showing a domino
five and an additional dot in upper position,
red ocher applied with the palm. In the spring
of 2006, one poster Holly identified the domino
five with my PAS for everywhere (in a plain),
here, south and north of me, east and west
of me. She was excited to have discovered
the earliest writing. The dot in upper position
can be read as CA meaning sky, together
PAS CA

O O O CA
O
O O PAS

PAS CA, everywhere PAS in the sky CA -
may the supreme leader of the Lower Rhone
Valley, the bison man or bull man, be born
again by the goddess in the region of the
Summer Triangle Deneb Vega Atair, and
may he roam the sky in his next life as he
roams the earth in this life - may he get
everywhere PAS in the sky CA ...

PAS CA became Russian Paskha Italian
Pasqua French Pâques meaning Easter.

Next time: Asherah

------------------------------------------------------------