The word "Shit" in every language... [html]

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André Müller

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Feb 18, 2002, 10:21:25 AM2/18/02
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Hi, NG :)
 
Some time ago I already have posted something like this, and now I hope to get some more answers like that.
I collected the word "Shit" in every language that I could find. When somebody knows the words in a language that's not listed here yet, please tell me. If something here in the list is wrong, or the transcription (in brackets) isn't correct, or anybody knows how to write the word in a language where I only have the transcription, then it would really be nice to tell me.
Okay, I'll give you the list of the results I got so far. I'm really sorry that I have to post this in HTML (I know, NGs don't really like this), caz I already had the same problem in the German NG, that the Unicode doesn't work withouth HTML (I think it does, but I cannot figure out, how). So... have a look at that list and tell me your comments:
 
 

Afrikaans:                       Kak

Albanian:                         Ia dhjetsha / Punë muti / ç’punë muti

Ancient Greek:                (skato)

Arabic:                            (khara) / (zarba)

Armenian:                       (qaq)

Azerbaijani:                     (pokh)

Belarussian:                     (hauno)

Bulgarian:                        Лайна (layna)

Catalan (Spain):               Merda

Cebuano (Philippines):     Tai

Ceqli (artifical):                Gwano

Chinese (Cantonese):       (ta ma dik)

Chinese (Mandarin):        他妈的 (ta ma de)

Chinook (Canada):          Cultus ikta

Croatian:                         Sranje / Drek

Czech:                            Srát / Hovno

Danish:                           Lort

Dutch:                             Stront / Schijt / Rotzooi / Kak

English:                           Shit

Esperanto (artifical):        Fekaĵo / Fek!

Estonian:                         Pask / Sitt

Farsi (Iran):                     ريدن (ridan) / گه (goh)

Finnish:                           Paska

Flemish (Belgium):           Schijt

French:                           Merde

Georgian:                        მძღნერი (mdzgneri) / განავალი (ganawali)

German:                          Scheiße

Greek:                             Σκατά (skata)

Hawaiian:                        Kahi

Hebrew:                          חרא (khara)

Hindi (India):                   (tatti)

Hungary:                         Szar

Icelandic:                        Skítur

Ilocano (Philippines):       Takki

Indonesian:                     Tai

Irish-Gaelic:                    Cac

Italian:                             Merda

Japanese:                        しまった (shimatta) / (kuso)

Kannada:                         (kakkas)

Khmer (Cambodia):         Gacm¾ (aaj mom) / CuH (chuh)

Korean:                           배설물 (baesoulmul) / (dong)

Latin:                              Stercum

Latvian:                           Sūds

Lebanese:                        (khara)

Lehali (Vanuatu):             Ta

Lithuanian:                      Šūdas

Lolovuevue (Vanuatu):     Tai

Macedonian:                   Gomno

Malay (Malaysia):            Taik / Najis / Bedebah / Cik!

Maori (New Zealand):      Tūtae / Tiko

Marathi (India):                (goo)

Norwegian:                      Skitt / Faen / Dritt

Old English:                    Scite

Pama-Nyungan (Aust.):    Guna

Polish:                            Gówno

Portuguese:                     Merda

Romanian:                       La dracu / Prostie / Rahat / Cecat

Russian:                          Говно (govno)

Sakao (Vanuatu):            

Sanskrit (India):               (purishamam)

Scots:                             Skitters

Serbian:                          Sranje

Serbo-Croatian:               Gorno

Slovak:                           Hovno

Slovenian:                       Drek

Spanish:                          Mierda

Swahili (Tanzania):          Kaka

Swedish:                         Skit / Jävlar / Fan

Tagalog (Philippines):      Tae

Tolomako (Vanuatu):       Te

Turkish:                          Pislik / Bok

Ukrainian:                        гівно (giwno) / лайно (layno)

Vietnamese:                     Cứt

Welsh:                            Cacha

Yiddish:                          Dreck / Drek

Zulu:                               Hosha

 
 
P.S.: Maybe Khmer doesn't work correctly here...
Ok, looking forward to any constructive answer :)
 
 --
André "Andrew" Müller
ICQ# 115451509

-.¸.·´¯\) Kleine B \(¯`·.¸.-

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Feb 18, 2002, 10:35:23 AM2/18/02
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rozooi in dutch is not correct... rotzooit means MESS not shit....poep is also agood one in dutch...I think afrikaans also has skyt...

--
Bastiaan van de Werk
 

-.¸.·´¯\) Kleine B \(¯`·.¸.-

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Feb 18, 2002, 10:36:39 AM2/18/02
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Oh..and flemmish is not a language...it's a dialect of dutch so all translation in dutch are for flemmish too..altho when flemmish speakers say poep they can also mean arse...
 

--
Bastiaan van de Werk
 

D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff

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Feb 18, 2002, 11:11:55 AM2/18/02
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In article <bc9c8.102$Qn1...@castor.casema.net>,
-.¸.·´¯\) Kleine B \(¯`·.¸.- <Bazz...@notsohotmail.moc> wrote:
>-=-=-=-=-=-

>
>Oh..and flemmish is not a language...it's a dialect of dutch so all
>translation in dutch are for flemmish too..altho when flemmish speakers
>say poep they can also mean arse...

You're new to sci.lang, Bastiaan, so you might want to read the FAQ if you
haven't already done so. You can find it on the web at:

<http://www.zompist.com/langfaq.html>

(Number 12, "What is a dialect?", is especially relevant in this case.)

You also seem relatively new to Usenet. In future, you might want to edit
your replies so that you're not quoting 200+ lines in order to add three
of your own. (You also might want to stop top-quoting, but that's more a
matter of personal preference.)
--
Daniel "Da" von Brighoff /\ Dilettanten
(de...@midway.uchicago.edu) /__\ erhebt Euch
/____\ gegen die Kunst!

Mike Cleven

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Feb 18, 2002, 11:20:23 AM2/18/02
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One small correction (well, actually two):

Not

Chinook (Canada): Cultus ikta

should be:

Chinook Jargon (Canada & the US): Cultus ikta

or

Chinook Jargon (British Columbia & the US Pacific Northwest): Cultus
ikta


NB there is a difference between the "Chinook Jargon" and "Chinook",
which can also mean the older Chinookan language upon which the Jargon
is partly based (and is in fact the proper meaning of "Chinook" although
that's in common use for the Chinook Jargon); the Chinook Jargon in a
creolized form is still spoken in the US, also, Chinuk-Wawa; they may
have a special idiom for "shit" also; this reply is bcc'd to the CHINOOK
list in case any Chinuk-Wawa speaker ther has something to add about
this. "Cultus ikta" as "shit" is the most common rendering of that
phrase, but it can have a wide range of other meanings depending on
context (it literally means bad/worthless/ordinary object/thing". As an
_exclamation_, however, rather than actual biologically-produced feces,
there are other expressions available,
e.g. "kweesh", "ad-de-dah", "an-nah"......; "cultus ikta" wouldn't
really function as an obscenity; you'd get a little more colourful than
that IMO......

--
Mike Cleven
http://www.cayoosh.net (Bridge River Lillooet history)
http://www.hiyu.net (Chinook Jargon phrasebook/history)

Mike Cleven

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Feb 18, 2002, 11:30:51 AM2/18/02
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Mike Cleven wrote:
>

<snip>

"Cultus ikta" as "shit" is the most common rendering of that
> phrase, but it can have a wide range of other meanings depending on
> context (it literally means bad/worthless/ordinary object/thing".

Wanted to add: among the more common of these other meanings:
"garbage", "something wasted", "something broken", "something useless".

Ben Zimmer

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Feb 18, 2002, 12:12:39 PM2/18/02
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André Müller <mueller...@t-online.de> wrote (in non-quotable html
format):

> Indonesian: Tai

Standard Indonesian would be "tahi". The spelling of "tai" reflects
regional/colloquial usage, as reflected by the cognates in the major
regional languages:

Javanese: tai, taèk
Sundanese: tai
Madurese: taè
Balinese: tai

> Malay (Malaysia): Taik / Najis / Bedebah / Cik!

I'm guessing standard Malay is also "tahi", with "taik" again reflecting
colloquial pronunciation (final "k" represents a glottal stop). "Najis"
is an Arabic word for any kind of bodily excretion that makes a person
ritually unclean (must be cleaned before prayer). I believe "najis
besar" (big najis) specifically refers to feces in Malay/Indonesian.
"Bedebah" and "cik" are just curse words that don't have anything to do
with fecal matter, but serve roughly the same function as "Shit!" as a
curse.

--Ben

Irina Knizhnik

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Feb 18, 2002, 12:44:59 PM2/18/02
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Your Chinese entries are just strong terms of abuse that absolutely do not
mean "shit" as such. They are just utterances equivalent to a certain degree
to the English "Oh, shit!"
Irina Knizhnik

"André Müller" <mueller...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:a4r65s$u9k$04$1...@news.t-online.com...
Hi, NG :)

Some time ago I already have posted something like this, and now I hope to
get some more answers like that.
I collected the word "Shit" in every language that I could find. When
somebody knows the words in a language that's not listed here yet, please
tell me. If something here in the list is wrong, or the transcription (in
brackets) isn't correct, or anybody knows how to write the word in a
language where I only have the transcription, then it would really be nice
to tell me.
Okay, I'll give you the list of the results I got so far. I'm really sorry
that I have to post this in HTML (I know, NGs don't really like this), caz I
already had the same problem in the German NG, that the Unicode doesn't work
withouth HTML (I think it does, but I cannot figure out, how). So... have a
look at that list and tell me your comments:


Afrikaans: Kak
Albanian: Ia dhjetsha / Punë muti / ç'punë muti
Ancient Greek: (skato)
Arabic: (khara) / (zarba)
Armenian: (qaq)
Azerbaijani: (pokh)
Belarussian: (hauno)

Bulgarian: ????? (layna)


Catalan (Spain): Merda
Cebuano (Philippines): Tai
Ceqli (artifical): Gwano

Chinese (Cantonese): ??? (ta ma dik)
Chinese (Mandarin): ??? (ta ma de)


Chinook (Canada): Cultus ikta
Croatian: Sranje / Drek
Czech: Srát / Hovno
Danish: Lort
Dutch: Stront / Schijt / Rotzooi / Kak
English: Shit

Esperanto (artifical): Fekajo / Fek!
Estonian: Pask / Sitt
Farsi (Iran): ???? (ridan) / ?? (goh)


Finnish: Paska
Flemish (Belgium): Schijt
French: Merde

Georgian: ??????? (mdzgneri) / ???????? (ganawali)
German: Scheiße
Greek: ????? (skata)
Hawaiian: Kahi
Hebrew: ??? (khara)


Hindi (India): (tatti)
Hungary: Szar
Icelandic: Skítur
Ilocano (Philippines): Takki
Indonesian: Tai
Irish-Gaelic: Cac
Italian: Merda

Japanese: ???? (shimatta) / ? (kuso)


Kannada: (kakkas)
Khmer (Cambodia): Gacm¾ (aaj mom) / CuH (chuh)

Korean: ??? (baesoulmul) / (dong)
Latin: Stercum
Latvian: Suds


Lebanese: (khara)
Lehali (Vanuatu): Ta

Lithuanian: Sudas


Lolovuevue (Vanuatu): Tai
Macedonian: Gomno
Malay (Malaysia): Taik / Najis / Bedebah / Cik!

Maori (New Zealand): Tutae / Tiko


Marathi (India): (goo)
Norwegian: Skitt / Faen / Dritt
Old English: Scite
Pama-Nyungan (Aust.): Guna
Polish: Gówno
Portuguese: Merda
Romanian: La dracu / Prostie / Rahat / Cecat

Russian: ????? (govno)


Sakao (Vanuatu): Dö
Sanskrit (India): (purishamam)
Scots: Skitters
Serbian: Sranje
Serbo-Croatian: Gorno
Slovak: Hovno
Slovenian: Drek
Spanish: Mierda
Swahili (Tanzania): Kaka
Swedish: Skit / Jävlar / Fan
Tagalog (Philippines): Tae
Tolomako (Vanuatu): Te
Turkish: Pislik / Bok

Ukrainian: ????? (giwno) / ????? (layno)
Vietnamese: C?t

-.¸.·´¯) Kleine B (¯`·.¸.-

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Feb 18, 2002, 2:55:22 PM2/18/02
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Sorry, and thanks.

-.¸.·´¯) Kleine B (¯`·.¸.-

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Feb 18, 2002, 2:58:34 PM2/18/02
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I don't see what in section 12 is supossed to say flemmish isn't a dialect
of dutch. The spelling is 100% the same, the grammar as well etc.etc. I
don't see any harm in poiting that out...


Martijn Dekker

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Feb 18, 2002, 4:07:12 PM2/18/02
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In article <a4r65s$u9k$04$1...@news.t-online.com>,
André Müller <mueller...@t-online.de> wrote:

> I collected the word "Shit" in every language that I could find.

Do you mean "Shit!" as a vulgar exclamation, or "shit" meaning
excrements? There is a difference.

> Dutch: Stront / Schijt / Rotzooi / Kak

"Rotzooi" is incorrect, it means mess.
When used as an exclamation, the English word "shit" is most common in
Dutch (the Netherlands version anyway).

> Flemish (Belgium): Schijt

Not a separate language, this should be under Dutch (or else also list
British and American English as separate languages).

> Latin: Stercum

Should be "stercus" according to my dictionary. (Genitive: stercoris)

Incidentally, "merda" from Italian, French, etc. already existed in
Latin, but it meant "excrements" and only took on the vulgar meaning in
the Romance languages.

> Swedish: Skit / Jävlar / Fan

"Jävlar" and "fan" are religious curses (both alluding to the devil), so
they don't belong here.

Addition:

Interlingua Merda

D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff

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Feb 18, 2002, 4:25:12 PM2/18/02
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In article <K1dc8.156$xm2....@pollux.casema.net>,

-.¸.·´¯\) Kleine B \(¯`·.¸.- <Bazz...@notsohotmail.moc> wrote:

It says that the definition of "dialect of" is problematic, at best.
Judgements about whether one variety is "a dialect of" another are largely
subjective.

Part of the difficulty may stem from which definition of "Dutch" and
"Flemish" you're using. I agree that the difference between the acro-
lectal varieties of "Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands" used in the Nether-
lands and in Belgium are minor. But I don't agree that the local speech
varieties of Flanders are "dialects" of it. I'd rather say that ABN is
another "dialect" of Netherlandic, just like Vlaams (or Midden-Gelders,
Waterlands, or Marols), albeit one with special status.

In other words, it's not _prima facie_ unacceptable to have listings for
both "Dutch" and "Flemish" if the "Dutch" word is from ABN or a Nether-
lands dialect and the "Flemish" is from a Belgian dialect. The more
colloquial the register, the more likely Netherlanders and Belgians are
likely to reach for different words. The same is true of other languages,
like English. Would you similarly object to an entry like "Irish English:
shite" because Irish English is a "dialect" of English and not a "lan-
guage"?

-.¸.·´¯) Kleine B (¯`·.¸.-

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Feb 18, 2002, 5:29:53 PM2/18/02
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Well, both he Flemish and the Dutch call their language ''Dutch (although in
Dutch this is called nederlands (netherlandic would indead be a more
accurate translation)...

ABN is mainly based on the hollandic dialect, since at the time of it's
''offical' conception this was the most important (influential) of the
different dialects spoken (as were brandants, vlaams and limburgs in the
times before that.)

In the list presented no different words in Flemish for the word shit were
mentioned. Therefore the separate mention of the Flemish dialect seems a bit
'over the top'. And the definition given by Weinreich also supports my case:
the Belgian navy (or the Flemish) have no navy of their own, it's under
Dutch (the nationality command. ;)

I lack proper knowledge fo the Irish version of English so I can't say too
much about it. But I agree that differentiating between a language and a
dialect is far frome easy...and I personally think the Limburgers have more
of a claim to that then do the people of Flanders (I've never heard them do
so anyway)


Radovan Garabik

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Feb 18, 2002, 5:37:37 PM2/18/02
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Andr?? M??ller <mueller...@t-online.de> wrote:

: Hi, NG :)


: I collected the word "Shit" in every language that I could find.

what is the word "shit"? Noun? Verb? Exclamation?

: Okay, I'll give you the list of the results I got so far. I'm really


: sorry that I have to post this in HTML (I know, NGs don't really like
: this),

you could have put your html somewhere and post just pointer to it.

: caz I already had the same problem in the German NG, that the


: Unicode doesn't work withouth HTML (I think it does, but I cannot

it does perfectly. Your HTML caused me unnecessary effort to read and
reply to (and was particularly messy HTML, anyway).
Ok, you already apologized for it...

btw for a nice way how to type in unicode in MANY scripts
see yudit (http://www.yudit.org)

: figure out, how). So... have a look at that list and tell me your
: comments:


: Belarussian: (hauno)

гаўно? but I am only guessing here

: Czech: Sr??t / Hovno

srát is verb, hovno is noun

: Esperanto (artifical): Feka??o / Fek!

Feki is verb, fekaĵo is noun, Fek! exclamation

: German: Scheiße

Scheisse is noun, scheissen verb.
I am not sure about the scharfes s, with all those
recent orthography reforms...


: Hungary: Szar

Hungarian. Szar is noun, szarni verb (infinitive, but in dictionaries it
is commonly written in 3 person singular, i.e. szarik. IMHO.)
There is also "fos" which is a special kind of szar - when you have
diarrhoea - and as an expletive used at least as often as szar.

: Russian: ?????????? (govno)

дерьмо (der'mo) is more often used and corresponds more closely to English
counterpart (noun). Verb is срать (srat')


: Slovak: Hovno

Noun. Verb is srať

--
-----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik |
| __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ fmph . uniba . sk |
-----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
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André Müller

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Feb 18, 2002, 6:22:56 PM2/18/02
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"Martijn Dekker" <mar...@inlv.demon.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:t3ec8.89958$0o2.6...@zwoll1.home.nl...
...

> Do you mean "Shit!" as a vulgar exclamation, or "shit" meaning
> excrements? There is a difference.

Well, when I can decide I would take the insult-version, but in dictionaries
they often don't make a difference, so I often just took what I get. So...
both versions (insult & excremental word) are okay.

> "Rotzooi" is incorrect, it means mess.

Thanks, that already was told to me by the German NG, that I posted to at
the same time. :)

> > Flemish (Belgium): Schijt
>
> Not a separate language, this should be under Dutch (or else also list
> British and American English as separate languages).

And here too, I deleted the Flemish out of my list.

> > Latin: Stercum
>
> Should be "stercus" according to my dictionary. (Genitive: stercoris)

Really? Okay, thanks.

> Incidentally, "merda" from Italian, French, etc. already existed in
> Latin, but it meant "excrements" and only took on the vulgar meaning in
> the Romance languages.

Hmm... I'm a little bit confused now... what would Julius Caesar have said,
when someone stepped on his big toe... "Merda!" or "Stercus!" (I guess the
first one, huh?)

> > Swedish: Skit / Jävlar / Fan
>
> "Jävlar" and "fan" are religious curses (both alluding to the devil), so


> they don't belong here.

Oh, good to know that, thanks.

> Addition:
>
> Interlingua Merda

Goed, dank u! ;)

--
André "Andrew" / "N-true" / "N'true" Müller


André Müller

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Feb 18, 2002, 6:37:28 PM2/18/02
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"Radovan Garabik" <sp...@melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:hnvr4a...@127.0.0.1...
...

> what is the word "shit"? Noun? Verb? Exclamation?

Well, when I can decide I would take the insult-version, but in dictionaries


they often don't make a difference, so I often just took what I get. So...

both versions (insult & excremental word [noun]) are okay.

> btw for a nice way how to type in unicode in MANY scripts
> see yudit (http://www.yudit.org)

Thanks, I'll look for it...

> : German: Scheiße
>
> Scheisse is noun, scheissen verb.
> I am not sure about the scharfes s, with all those
> recent orthography reforms...

Hehe, it's really written as "Scheiße"... the German "Rechtschreibreform"
says, that after a looooong vowel the 'ß' becomes a 'ss'... so it is
'Scheiße' and the verb is 'scheißen'. (I know that, because I am german). ;)

> : Hungary: Szar
>
> Hungarian. Szar is noun, szarni verb (infinitive, but in dictionaries it
> is commonly written in 3 person singular, i.e. szarik. IMHO.)
> There is also "fos" which is a special kind of szar - when you have
> diarrhoea - and as an expletive used at least as often as szar.

Yeah, Hungarian, of course... It was too late yesterday, so I haven't seen
my mistake... later a friend of mine also told me that... okok :)

> : Russian: ?????????? (govno)
>
> ?????? (der'mo) is more often used and corresponds more closely to English
> counterpart (noun). Verb is ????? (srat')
>
>
> : Slovak: Hovno
>
> Noun. Verb is srat

Hm... in the slavic (sp?) languages (Russian, Czech, Slovak, ...) it's often
something like Govno or Hovno... could that be used as an insult or is that
more the noun for the excrement?

Okay, thanks again and in advance :)

André Müller

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Feb 18, 2002, 6:46:56 PM2/18/02
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Ich selbst (wiedermal total übermüdet) <mueller...@t-online.de> schrieb
im Newsbeitrag news:a4s37u$k9k$01$1...@news.t-online.com gerade eben noch
folgenden Stuss zusammen:

*schnipps*


> Hehe, it's really written as "Scheiße"... the German "Rechtschreibreform"
> says, that after a looooong vowel the 'ß' becomes a 'ss'... so it is
> 'Scheiße' and the verb is 'scheißen'. (I know that, because I am german).
;)

Oh oh oh... >.< I should pay more attention on what I write ^-^'
Okay, correction:
After a looooooong vowel, the ß stays ß (like in "Soße" [engl.: sauce])
and
After a short vowel, the old ß becomes 'ss' (like in "Bass" [ye olde german:
Baß] [engl.: Bass])
Ok, hope I didn't bring in a new mistake...
Apology in advance: Again it's a bit late here, hehe ;)

Yusuf B Gursey

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Feb 18, 2002, 9:34:32 PM2/18/02
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what is this new hights sci.lang is heading to these days? first it was
slogans, ow this, "in all the languages you can".

Yusuf B Gursey

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Feb 18, 2002, 11:55:02 PM2/18/02
to
oh, well, if you can't beat'em, join'em.

I'll deal with nouns, low and high register. excluded is "dung".

turkish pislik is really just "filth" (a higher register for this is
neces - with c = j - < `ar. najas "filth"). bok is a fairly old turkic
word and variants are found in various turkic languages. the azeri
variant pox (current romanization in azaerbaijan) is also heard in rural
dialects of turkish (interesting is its use with metals in which case it
means "slag" the earliest attested form - 8th cent. old uighur. I found
this usage in early 1900's ottoman turkish). these correspond to "shit".
in turkish the nursery word kaka is also very common. kazurat (pronounced
.-.; < `ar. qa:*dh*u:ra(t) "filth", also found as qa*dh*u;ra(t)) "feces"
is a little archaic now. the neologism for "excrement" is dIs,kI . ga'ita
(-..) or ga'it (-.) (< `ar. *gh*a:'iT fem. *gh*a:'Ta(t); see below) seems
now regarded as so "safe" that I saw it printed clearly on a clinic's
street sign. other euphemisms include bu"yu"k abdest "major abloution";
(from class. pers. a:b(-i) dast "hand water"). a semi-vulgar form dying
out is bevavkaf (i.e. -qaf), which is just spelling it out in ottoman
turkish.

arabic has most commonly xara:' (with small variation common in
colloquials). one standard variant is xur' (x = *kh*)

for excrement etc. common is *gh*a:'iT (origianlly litt. "a small ditch"
i.e. "privy" hence ...). also found is bira:z .
also words for "filth" (see above, incl. qa*dh*ar)

for persian it is goh (i.e. in class. pron. guh). various euphemisms are
used, mainly form arabic like madfu:` (ar. madfu:3 "pushed").

perhaps somebody can take time off from firdavsi, khayyam etc. and
enlighten us more on this most crucial subject.

Yusuf B Gursey

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 12:00:19 AM2/19/02
to
Yusuf B Gursey <y...@shell01.theworld.com> wrote:
: oh, well, if you can't beat'em, join'em.

: I'll deal with nouns, low and high register. excluded is "dung".

kurdish (kurmanji) gu^ (acc. to tori^)

: for persian it is goh (i.e. in class. pron. guh). various euphemisms are

Yusuf B Gursey

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 12:25:02 AM2/19/02
to
Yusuf B Gursey <y...@shell01.theworld.com> wrote:
: Yusuf B Gursey <y...@shell01.theworld.com> wrote:
: : oh, well, if you can't beat'em, join'em.

: : I'll deal with nouns, low and high register. excluded is "dung".

: kurdish (kurmanji) gu^ (acc. to tori^)

kix (k@*kh*), kixe (k@*kh*a) seems to be the nursery word for "filth,
filthy", equiv. to turkish kaka , also nursery "bad" - i.e. qaqa; NB
armen. qaq)

: : for persian it is goh (i.e. in class. pron. guh). various euphemisms are

Yusuf B Gursey

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 12:29:36 AM2/19/02
to
BTW quite a number of (unrelated) nursery words as kaka in unrelated
languages.

Yusuf B Gursey

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 12:36:09 AM2/19/02
to
"Andre Muller" <mueller...@t-online.de> wrote:

: "Martijn Dekker" <mar...@inlv.demon.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
: news:t3ec8.89958$0o2.6...@zwoll1.home.nl...
: ...

:> > Flemish (Belgium): Schijt


:>
:> Not a separate language, this should be under Dutch (or else also list
:> British and American English as separate languages).

: And here too, I deleted the Flemish out of my list.

also the "lebanese" word has currency well beyond lebanon and is in common
with standard arabic.

Sebastian Hew

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 1:54:31 AM2/19/02
to
"Irina Knizhnik" <irinak@bikinfo_nospam_.com> wrote in message
news:v4bc8.70667$8d1.22...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...

> Your Chinese entries are just strong terms of abuse that absolutely do not
> mean "shit" as such. They are just utterances equivalent to a certain
degree
> to the English "Oh, shit!"
> Irina Knizhnik

It seems to me that the Cantonese entry is incorrect; indeed, it doesn't
even seem particularly Cantonese, but rather, the Mandarin version
pronounced in the Cantonese way. I can offer no alternative, though.

Sebastian.


Martijn Dekker

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 4:19:30 AM2/19/02
to
In article <a4s2co$p5u$03$1...@news.t-online.com>,
"André Müller" <mueller...@t-online.de> wrote:

> "Martijn Dekker" <mar...@inlv.demon.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:t3ec8.89958$0o2.6...@zwoll1.home.nl...
> ...
> > Do you mean "Shit!" as a vulgar exclamation, or "shit" meaning
> > excrements? There is a difference.
>
> Well, when I can decide I would take the insult-version, but in dictionaries
> they often don't make a difference, so I often just took what I get. So...
> both versions (insult & excremental word) are okay.

Do you mean insult as in a name to call somebody ("you miserable piece
of shit"), or as in an expletive (like "shit!" when something breaks)? I
am guessing the latter.

[...]


> > Incidentally, "merda" from Italian, French, etc. already existed in
> > Latin, but it meant "excrements" and only took on the vulgar meaning in
> > the Romance languages.
>
> Hmm... I'm a little bit confused now... what would Julius Caesar have said,
> when someone stepped on his big toe... "Merda!" or "Stercus!" (I guess the
> first one, huh?)

Neither, probably. According to my Latin-Dutch dictionary "stercus" can
be a name to call somebody, but it is not listed as an exclamation /
expletive. My thought is that this kind of expletive is probably a
modern phenomenon. I don't think it's really known what they yelled back
then (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

- Martijn

Lee Sau Dan

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 3:35:30 AM2/19/02
to
>>>>> "JGuy" == JGuy <jg...@dev.null.nu> writes:

JGuy> Bi1, BTW, is made of the same radical 44, and of xue2
JGuy> "hole." Its mate, diao3, is also made of the same radical,
JGuy> plus a very pictographic character :-

That common radical is usually used for characters that refer to body
parts and related things.


JGuy> Don't you have a word for "shit" in Cantonese???

No exactly the same as that one in English. *Literally*, there are
words of the same meaning. But it is not easy to find a word among
these that would also carry the meanings _behind_ this exclamation.


--
Lee Sau Dan 李守敦(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)

E-mail: dan...@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee

Lee Sau Dan

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 3:30:27 AM2/19/02
to
>>>>> "André" == André Müller <mueller...@t-online.de> writes:

>> Hehe, it's really written as "Scheiße"... the German
>> "Rechtschreibreform" says, that after a looooong vowel the 'ß'
>> becomes a 'ss'... so it is 'Scheiße' and the verb is
>> 'scheißen'. (I know that, because I am german).

I think that's wrong.
(I know that, although I'm not a German.)

See http://www.ex.ac.uk/german/teaching/reform/indrules.html
It reads:

1) After a short vowel sound, words which were originally
written with "ß" are now to be written with "ss".

2) After a long vowel or a diphthong, words which were
originally written with "ß" remain unchanged.

Dylan Sung

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 4:55:14 AM2/19/02
to

"JGuy" <jg...@dev.null.nu> wrote in message news:3C7272...@dev.null.nu...

> Sebastian Hew wrote:
>
> > "Irina Knizhnik" <irinak@bikinfo_nospam_.com> wrote in message
> > news:v4bc8.70667$8d1.22...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
> > > Your Chinese entries are just strong terms of abuse that absolutely do
not
> > > mean "shit" as such. They are just utterances equivalent to a certain
> > degree
> > > to the English "Oh, shit!"
>
> She is right. The Mandarin entry is "ta1 ma1 de" which
> is short (and more polite) for "ta1 ma1 de bi1" i.e.
> "his/her mother's cunt". The proper word is shi3 as in la1 shi3
> "to take a shit".

...

> > I can offer no alternative, though.
>

> Don't you have a word for "shit" in Cantonese???

Actually, a literal translation of 'shit' doesn't seem to used at all as an
exclamation, which may explain Sebastian's statement about Cantonese, and
why you hear 'ta ma de' in Mandarin.

For Chinese, sex, illness and death are the taboo, so you find things
refering to them much more offensive than faecal matter, whether as terms of
abuse or just plain exclamation.

Dyl.


Nigel Greenwood

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 5:34:00 AM2/19/02
to
Yusuf B Gursey <y...@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote

> a semi-vulgar form dying
> out is bevavkaf (i.e. -qaf), which is just spelling it out in ottoman
> turkish.

This reminds me that for years I've wanted to find out the origin of
"lam elif çevirmek " [to take a stroll]. Is the idea that the Arabic
ligature for Lam+Alef when inverted looks like a pair of legs?

Nigel

Language resources (Greek/Persian/Turkish):
http://www.elgin.free-online.co.uk

André Müller

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 7:45:37 AM2/19/02
to

"Lee Sau Dan" <dan...@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:m3ofilx...@mika.informatik.uni-freiburg.de...

> >>>>> "André" == André Müller <mueller...@t-online.de> writes:
>
> >> Hehe, it's really written as "Scheiße"... the German
> >> "Rechtschreibreform" says, that after a looooong vowel the 'ß'
> >> becomes a 'ss'... so it is 'Scheiße' and the verb is
> >> 'scheißen'. (I know that, because I am german).
>
> I think that's wrong.
> (I know that, although I'm not a German.)
>
> See http://www.ex.ac.uk/german/teaching/reform/indrules.html
> It reads:
>
> 1) After a short vowel sound, words which were originally
> written with "ß" are now to be written with "ss".
>
> 2) After a long vowel or a diphthong, words which were
> originally written with "ß" remain unchanged.


Sure, and that's exactly what I have said in my correction.
(You should have read up to the end, before you answered)

--
André Müller


Eddy Sterckx

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 11:39:39 AM2/19/02
to
> ABN is mainly based on the hollandic dialect, since at the time of it's
> ''offical' conception this was the most important (influential) of the
> different dialects spoken (as were brandants, vlaams and limburgs in the
> times before that.)

Almost correct, to be more exact : a certain number of Lower Western
Frankonian languages were spoken in the area now devided between The
Netherlands, Belgium and France. At the time when spelling and grammar
became more important - the invention of the printing press -
publishers mainly decided to go for the most influential
(commercial/political) of those languages at that point in time.
In the end that language became first the de facto "standard" language
and afterwards even the official standard language (ABN) with all
other languages getting the "dialect" status. Same thing happened in
almost every country in Europe. What makes Flanders so special is that
up to modern times the standard Dutch language never caught on because
it was - until relatively recent - not an official language in
Flanders or the language of the ruling classes both economically and
politically. It was in essence the lower-class speach and didn't
evolve much in those closed communities.
They should have died out, but didn't - we got kind of attached to
them - mainly because it differentiated "us" from "them" :)
My own grandfather couldn't watch Dutch TV-channels because he didn't
understand a word of it. He had less problems with German TV-channels
because his local language was much closer to German than to Dutch.

Final point/in conclusion : there is no such thing as a "Flemish"
language - there are however a number of different languages spoken
here, which are often mutually unintelligeble. There is therefore no
word for "Shit" in "Flemish".
As a side note : Flemish people under the age of 40 tend to use the
English word "shit", people above 40 the French "merd(e)". Cultural
dominance/influence and all that.

>And the definition given by Weinreich also supports my case:
> the Belgian navy (or the Flemish) have no navy of their own, it's under
> Dutch (the nationality command. ;)

???? - the facts : the Belgian and Dutch Navy have a common
operational command, but are still 2 separate navies.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 11:45:08 AM2/19/02
to
In article <a4t7f1$2u718$1...@ID-119091.news.dfncis.de>,

If memory serves (it's been a while since I saw any HK films), isn't there
a common expletive that translates literally as "dregs"? It seems very
close in meaning and usage to English "shit". (At least, that's how it's
often translated in the subtitles.)

-.¸.·´¯) Kleine B (¯`·.¸.-

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 1:50:03 PM2/19/02
to

> >And the definition given by Weinreich also supports my case:
> > the Belgian navy (or the Flemish) have no navy of their own, it's under
> > Dutch (the nationality command. ;)
>
> ???? - the facts : the Belgian and Dutch Navy have a common
> operational command, but are still 2 separate navies.
>

You call those 3 rowboats a navy? ;) Anyway, it's certainly not exclusively
flemmish...but federal belgian at best... but don't take it too
serious...most of the Dutch ground forces are effectively under German
command...afaik.

> Greetz,
>
> Eddy Sterckx

ps. I adore typical the Belgian spelling of last names...my family name used
to be van der Wearcke (or something), now (since Napolean) it's just van de
Werk...boooring.


Radovan Garabik

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Feb 19, 2002, 3:12:18 PM2/19/02
to
"André Müller" <mueller...@t-online.de> wrote:

:> : Slovak: Hovno
:>
:> Noun. Verb is srat

: Hm... in the slavic (sp?) languages (Russian, Czech, Slovak, ...) it's often
: something like Govno or Hovno... could that be used as an insult or is that
: more the noun for the excrement?

I can reliably comment only on Czech and Slovak usage.
"hovno" means the excrement, it is never used as an exclamation
(as in english "Oh Shit!" when you erase your harddrive by mistake -
this can be expressed in many ways, most often used are connected with
female genitals). It can be used as an insult, when you reply
to some demand - like "Will you do it?" answer: "Hovno" means that you
are certainly not going to do it. Of course, it is rather insulting answer.

Mike Cleven

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 4:39:55 PM2/19/02
to

Mike Cleven wrote:
>
> One small correction (well, actually two):
>
> Not
>
> Chinook (Canada): Cultus ikta
>
> should be:
>
> Chinook Jargon (Canada & the US): Cultus ikta

A list member from Neah Bay in Makah territory reminded me that "umm" or
"humm", generally translated as a foul smell, is also used for "shit" in
the scatological sense, i.e. feces. Variation: "humm ikta" (really bad
smelling stuff).


--
Mike Cleven
http://www.cayoosh.net (Bridge River Lillooet history)
http://www.hiyu.net (Chinook Jargon phrasebook/history)

Dylan Sung

unread,
Feb 19, 2002, 7:19:09 PM2/19/02
to

"D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff" <de...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:oivc8.91$v4....@news.uchicago.edu...


Any of the following? (excuse the tones - SauDan, Patrick?)

/p'uk5 kaai55/
/sei35 p'uk5 kaai55/
/haam11 ka55 ts'aan35/
/tiu31/
/tiu31 lei35/
/tiu31 lei33 lou22 mou22/


Dyl.


Eddy Sterckx

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 2:10:26 AM2/20/02
to
"-.?.???\) Kleine B \(?`?.?.-" <Bazz...@notsohotmail.moc> wrote in message news:<v7xc8.131$L67....@pollux.casema.net>...

>
> You call those 3 rowboats a navy? ;)

What do you mean 3 ??? - Did we buy ANOTHER one ??? - at least we got
plenty of admirals, vice-admirals and all that to make it look an
impressive fleet :)

> Anyway, it's certainly not exclusively flemmish...but federal belgian at best...

It's not Flemish at all - officially it's the Belgian navy - in
practical terms 90 % of the crews are Flemish for the obvious
geographical reason that Wallonia doesn't border the sea. More than
half of the higher officers are Walloon, but that's another story.

> but don't take it too serious...most of the Dutch ground forces are effectively under German command...afaik.

If you can't beat them, join them :)

> ps. I adore typical the Belgian spelling of last names...my family name used
> to be van der Wearcke (or something), now (since Napolean) it's just van de
> Werk...boooring.

Before Napolean most common folks didn't have a last name, just a
first and/or a nickname. Napolean's "Code Civil" forced everyone to
have one. Combine this with French speaking clerks noting down what
local farmer boys said their name was and you get some pretty weird
spelling.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Mike Cleven

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 2:43:27 AM2/20/02
to

Martijn Dekker wrote:
>

>
> > Swedish: Skit / Jävlar / Fan
>
> "Jävlar" and "fan" are religious curses (both alluding to the devil), so


> they don't belong here.

Which is the problem with direct translation, especially for a word as
idiomatic and variable in meaning as "shit" in English happens to be.
If the original questioner had simply asked "what's the word for feces?"
he would have made this a whole lot simpler, instead of baldly stating a
word known to have a multitude of uses in English and asking for
equivalents in other languages. So what's an equivalent? Something
that's used in the same way, or a direct translation that's NOT used the
same way.

BTW the Norwegian verion of "fan" I've heard are more like fa'an, with a
noticeable "tone change" (up, I think); and seemed to be used like
something between "crikey" and "horseballs"......as if it could be
defined as such (my Norwegian's not so good); it just seemed to occupy
the same position as a speech punctuator that "shit" does (in Canadian
English, anyway).

Quebec French is notorious for the use of religious words in place of
biological obscenities. "hostie" (hostzie), i.e. "the host" is roughly
equivalent in usage to "fucking" (as in fucking this, fucking that, good
fucking chr...); chalice (caawliss) seems about right for "shit" (as in
"SHIT!"), sacrament (sacramang) for "cocksucker/ing" and so on (these
parallels were explained to me years ago by good friends in a bilingual
town out here in BC; yes, they do exist). "Merde" exists, but it's
rather weak as an obscenity relative to its direct English counterpart;
same with vachie' (va-shay) - "bullshit". Just doesn't have the punch
and pungency of "hostie chalice sacrament!" Nowhere near as much.

Mike Cleven

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 2:44:14 AM2/20/02
to

Any studies or writings around on obscenities and/or biological
crudities used by Catullus (who had a way of making these words into
great poetry)?

Lee Sau Dan

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 3:41:21 AM2/20/02
to
>>>>> "Dylan" == Dylan Sung <dylanwhs....@pacific.net.hk> writes:

Dylan> Any of the following? (excuse the tones - SauDan, Patrick?)

Dylan> /p'uk5 kaai55/
Dylan> /sei35 p'uk5 kaai55/

Adding the /sei35/ (literally: "die"/"dead"/"death"/"dying") simply
adds emphasis. /p'uk5 kaai55/ is used to refer to people. It's not
used when no people (other than oneself) is involved. English word
"Shit!" covers a wider application. E.g. you can say "Shit!" just
because you're unlucky or you've done something wrong accidently.
/p'uk5 kaai55/ won't be used in such circumstances.


Dylan> /haam11 ka55 ts'aan35/

The first syllable should be /h@m22/. Again, this would only be used
when there is someone that is the target (i.e. victim) of your
swearing.


Dylan> /tiu31/ /tiu31 lei35/ /tiu31 lei33 lou22 mou22/

There is no tone /31/ in GZ and HK Cantonese. It should be /35/.

These are, IMO, too much stronger than the English word "Shit!".
English "Shit!" is much milder.

So, there is no good equivalent.

Lee Sau Dan

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 3:36:45 AM2/20/02
to
>>>>> "D" == D Edward Gund v Brighoff <de...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes:

D> If memory serves (it's been a while since I saw any HK films),
D> isn't there a common expletive that translates literally as
D> "dregs"? It seems very close in meaning and usage to English
D> "shit".

The real swear words are not allowed in films. So, what you've got
from the films are much milder words, none of which as rude as
"shit!". (Not my addition of the exclamation mark to emphasize its
non-literal meaning here.)


D> (At least, that's how it's often translated in the
D> subtitles.)

The laws are unfair here. Cantonese swear words are not allowed in
films, TV and radio programmes. However, English swear words are not
under such restrictions.

Dylan Sung

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 8:30:16 AM2/20/02
to

"Lee Sau Dan" <dan...@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote in message
news:m3it8si...@mika.informatik.uni-freiburg.de...

> >>>>> "Dylan" == Dylan Sung <dylanwhs....@pacific.net.hk> writes:
>
> Dylan> Any of the following? (excuse the tones - SauDan, Patrick?)
>
> Dylan> /p'uk5 kaai55/
> Dylan> /sei35 p'uk5 kaai55/
>
> Adding the /sei35/ (literally: "die"/"dead"/"death"/"dying") simply
> adds emphasis. /p'uk5 kaai55/ is used to refer to people. It's not
> used when no people (other than oneself) is involved. English word
> "Shit!" covers a wider application. E.g. you can say "Shit!" just
> because you're unlucky or you've done something wrong accidently.
> /p'uk5 kaai55/ won't be used in such circumstances.
>
>
> Dylan> /haam11 ka55 ts'aan35/
>
> The first syllable should be /h@m22/. Again, this would only be used
> when there is someone that is the target (i.e. victim) of your
> swearing.
>
>
> Dylan> /tiu31/ /tiu31 lei35/ /tiu31 lei33 lou22 mou22/
>
> There is no tone /31/ in GZ and HK Cantonese. It should be /35/.


Looks like I've got a bad accent. Then again, I don't use these phrases
much, if ever, being a polite kinda guy :)


> These are, IMO, too much stronger than the English word "Shit!".
> English "Shit!" is much milder.

>
>
>
> So, there is no good equivalent.

Agreed.

OT:

The following Hakka euphenisms are quite amusing

/piau33 t'ON33/
piau33 = to spring forth
t'ON33 = soup
.: projectile diarrhoea

/O33 Nia33 tS'iam33 tau33/
O33 = to pass stools
Nia33 = your
ts'iam33 = to stab
tau33 = knife

Dyl.


Tak To

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 1:48:25 PM2/20/02
to
Dylan Sung wrote:

> Any of the following? (excuse the tones - SauDan, Patrick?)
>
> /p'uk5 kaai55/
> /sei35 p'uk5 kaai55/
> /haam11 ka55 ts'aan35/

More or less equivalent to "Bastard!", "Mother Fucker!", "Son of a Bitch!".

> /tiu31/
> /tiu31 lei35/
> /tiu31 lei33 lou22 mou22/

/tiu35/
/tiu35 nei22/
/tiu35 nei22 lou22 mou35/

Literally "F*k!", "F*k You!", "F*k Your Mother!"

Strictly speaking, these are abuses rather than exclamations. However,
some people use them as exclamations, sometimes even in the neutral
sense (roughly "oh my god!", "Jesus Christ!").

Tak
-----------------------------------------------------------+----------
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.edu.-
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the .- to get my real email addr

Yusuf B Gursey

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 5:24:01 PM2/20/02
to
Nigel Greenwood <ni...@elgin.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
: Yusuf B Gursey <y...@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote

I know a lot of such expressions but I haven't heard this one, though
the explanation seems reasonable

:> a semi-vulgar form dying

:> out is bevavkaf (i.e. -qaf), which is just spelling it out in ottoman
:> turkish.

: This reminds me that for years I've wanted to find out the origin of

: "lam elif c,evirmek " [to take a stroll]. Is the idea that the Arabic

c,eviremk means to turn aroound. indeed you have turn the ligature upside
down to make it resemble a pair of legs.

: ligature for Lam+Alef when inverted looks like a pair of legs?

Javier BF

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 6:42:43 PM2/20/02
to
> Spanish: Mierda

In Spanish there's also the word "caca" ['ka.ka], which is I
suppose of babytalk origin. "Mierda" ['mjer.da] doesn't sound
any good in any context, though I would consider it as the
"standard" translation of "shit". I'd only expect to hear "caca"
in familiar situations. There's also the word "hez" [eT] (pl.
"heces" ['e.Tes]), which would be a really formal way of referring
to the resulting material of defecation. "Hez" doesn't sound
like a four-letter word, so it's what you should say to refer to
such an unpleasing matter not in such an unpleasing manner as
saying "mierda".

Some verbs realated to the subject are: "cagar" [ka'Gar] (with
a fricative "g"), really horrible sounding, and "defecar"
[de.fe'kar], exquisitely polite. From "cagar" you get the noun
"cagada" [ka'Ga.Da] (an amount of shit or an act of shitting)
and from "defecar" you get "defecación" [de.fe.ka'Tjon]. There's
no verb related to "hez", at least to my knowledge. I'm not sure
if "caca" is in any way etymologically related to "cagar".

Of course, the list of slang words for referring to this
subject would be neverendingly long... :-))
Among the most common nowadays it's the verb "jiñar" [Xi'Nar]
(with an uvular "kh" and a palatal "n"), which I guess is
of gypsy origin (at least it looks so).

Best regards,
Javier

Lee Sau Dan

unread,
Feb 20, 2002, 5:01:18 PM2/20/02
to
>>>>> "Tak" == Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.edu.-> writes:


Tak> /tiu35/ /tiu35 nei22/ /tiu35 nei22 lou22 mou35/

Tak> Literally "F*k!", "F*k You!", "F*k Your Mother!"

Tak> Strictly speaking, these are abuses rather than exclamations.
Tak> However, some people use them as exclamations, sometimes even
Tak> in the neutral sense (roughly "oh my god!", "Jesus Christ!").

My feeling is that the English versions are less forceful than the
Cantonese versions. Maybe Cantonese is my native language whereas
English isn't. But I find English speakers use those expression more
often than Cantonese speakers, and I feel less offended by the English
versions than the Cantonese versions.

Edwin Menes

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Feb 20, 2002, 10:02:15 PM2/20/02
to
Check J.N. Adams, The Latin Sexual Vocabulary and Amy Richlin, The
Garden of Priapus.

Felix Wan

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Feb 21, 2002, 12:48:21 AM2/21/02
to
> Dylan> /tiu31/ /tiu31 lei35/ /tiu31 lei33 lou22 mou22/
>
> There is no tone /31/ in GZ and HK Cantonese. It should be /35/.
>
> These are, IMO, too much stronger than the English word "Shit!".
> English "Shit!" is much milder.
>
> So, there is no good equivalent.
>
I agree that there is no good equivalent of "Shit!" in Cantonese.
Will these be closer in strength?

/t'iu55/ /ts'iu55/ (purposely mispronouncing /tiu35/)

/tiN35/

Nigel Greenwood

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Feb 21, 2002, 4:25:50 AM2/21/02
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Yusuf B Gursey <y...@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote:

>
> I know a lot of such expressions but I haven't heard this one, though
> the explanation seems reasonable

Maybe "Lami cimi yok" [there's no Lam or Jim about it" ~ but me no
buts] is more familiar. But Lam-elif çevirmek still appears in most
dictionaries, even if it is a bit dated.

Nigel

Language resources (Persian/Turkish/Modern Greek/IPA):
http://www.elgin.free-online.co.uk

Percy Wing

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Feb 21, 2002, 5:07:12 AM2/21/02
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Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.edu.-> wrote in message news:<3C73EF79...@alum.mit.edu.->...

> Dylan Sung wrote:
>
> > Any of the following? (excuse the tones - SauDan, Patrick?)
> >
> > /p'uk5 kaai55/
> > /sei35 p'uk5 kaai55/
> > /haam11 ka55 ts'aan35/
>
> More or less equivalent to "Bastard!", "Mother Fucker!", "Son of a Bitch!".

As far as my poor Cantonese goes, /p'uk5 kaai55/ and /sei35 p'uk5
kaai55/ should have nothing to do the person's mother, whilst
"Bastard!", "Mother Fucker!", "Son of a Bitch!" do put heavy
humiliation on the person by insulting his mother or his incestuous
relationship with his mother.

Would you think "asshole" is a better counterpart of /p'uk5 kaai55/
and /sei35 p'uk5 kaai55/?

Percy Wing

Lee Sau Dan

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Feb 21, 2002, 9:24:51 AM2/21/02
to
>>>>> "Felix" == Felix Wan <fe...@ksb.net> writes:

>> These are, IMO, too much stronger than the English word
>> "Shit!". English "Shit!" is much milder.
>>
>> So, there is no good equivalent.
>>

Felix> I agree that there is no good equivalent of "Shit!" in
Felix> Cantonese. Will these be closer in strength?

Felix> /t'iu55/ /ts'iu55/ (purposely mispronouncing /tiu35/)

Similar in strength, but different in the context in the circumstances
where they're used. These two are usually used when you're frowning
upon somebody. When there is nobody to complain about, we normally
don't use these two exclamations. But "Shit!" can be used when there
is nobody (except oneself) to scold, such as dropping a coin into the
drainage canals on the street.


Felix> /tiN35/

This is closer. But it's nothing related to excrement. So, it's not
a translation of plain "Shit".

Lee Sau Dan

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Feb 21, 2002, 9:27:00 AM2/21/02
to
>>>>> "Percy" == Percy Wing <perc...@lycos.com> writes:

Percy> Would you think "asshole" is a better counterpart of
Percy> /p'uk5 kaai55/ and /sei35 p'uk5 kaai55/?

I don't think so. These Cantonese swearwords have nothing to do with
("dirty") body parts at all. So, "asshole" doesn't fit. Maybe, "Go
to hell!" would preserve this side of the expressions. :)

Tak To

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Feb 21, 2002, 1:24:08 PM2/21/02
to
Lee Sau Dan wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Tak" == Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.edu.-> writes:
>
> Tak> /tiu35/ /tiu35 nei22/ /tiu35 nei22 lou22 mou35/
>
> Tak> Literally "F*k!", "F*k You!", "F*k Your Mother!"
>
> Tak> Strictly speaking, these are abuses rather than exclamations.
> Tak> However, some people use them as exclamations, sometimes even
> Tak> in the neutral sense (roughly "oh my god!", "Jesus Christ!").
>
> My feeling is that the English versions are less forceful than the
> Cantonese versions. Maybe Cantonese is my native language whereas
> English isn't. But I find English speakers use those expression more
> often than Cantonese speakers, and I feel less offended by the English
> versions than the Cantonese versions.

You are right in general. There are stronger examples in English, such
as "Jesus F*king Christ!", or "F*king A!" (which originally has only the
positive sense). There is also the context -- sometimes people in
a foreign land use dialectal abuses among themselves to show comaraderie;
very much like African-Americans use "nigger" among themselves.

When you have lived long enough abroad, you may find it delightful
to be greeted by a long /tiu35/. :-)

Tak To

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Feb 21, 2002, 1:39:24 PM2/21/02
to
Dylan Sung wrote:
DS> Any of the following? (excuse the tones - SauDan, Patrick?)
DS>
DS> /p'uk5 kaai55/
DS> /sei35 p'uk5 kaai55/
DS> /haam11 ka55 ts'aan35/

Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.edu.-> wrote
in message news:<3C73EF79...@alum.mit.edu.->...

TT> More or less equivalent to "Bastard!", "Mother Fucker!",
TT> "Son of a Bitch!".

Percy Wing wrote:
PW> As far as my poor Cantonese goes, /p'uk5 kaai55/ and /sei35 p'uk5
PW> kaai55/ should have nothing to do the person's mother, whilst
PW> "Bastard!", "Mother Fucker!", "Son of a Bitch!" do put heavy
PW> humiliation on the person by insulting his mother or his incestuous
PW> relationship with his mother.
PW>
PW> Would you think "asshole" is a better counterpart of /p'uk5 kaai55/
PW> and /sei35 p'uk5 kaai55/?

Well, I think "asshole" is more or less equivalent to "bastard".

However, if one wants to draw a fine line, then /p'uk kaai55/ etc
are curses while "asshole" is not.

Tak

D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff

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Feb 21, 2002, 4:09:26 PM2/21/02
to
In article <a4uqb8$3aisg$1...@ID-119091.news.dfncis.de>,

Dylan Sung <dylanwhs....@pacific.net.hk> wrote:
>
>"D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff" <de...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
>news:oivc8.91$v4....@news.uchicago.edu...
>> In article <a4t7f1$2u718$1...@ID-119091.news.dfncis.de>,
>> Dylan Sung <dylanwhs....@pacific.net.hk> wrote:
>> >For Chinese, sex, illness and death are the taboo, so you find things
>> >refering to them much more offensive than faecal matter, whether as terms
>of
>> >abuse or just plain exclamation.
>>
>> If memory serves (it's been a while since I saw any HK films), isn't there
>> a common expletive that translates literally as "dregs"? It seems very
>> close in meaning and usage to English "shit". (At least, that's how it's
>> often translated in the subtitles.)
>
>
>Any of the following? (excuse the tones - SauDan, Patrick?)
>
>/p'uk5 kaai55/
>/sei35 p'uk5 kaai55/
>/haam11 ka55 ts'aan35/
>/tiu31/
>/tiu31 lei35/
>/tiu31 lei33 lou22 mou22/

Nope!

The Mandarin is <cao>, but I'm not sure about the tone. (I know there is
also a Mandarin <cao> which means "fuck", but the spelling is different--
maybe the tone as well. My Taiwanese Mandarin dictionary only lists the
milder vulgarities.)

Based on my poor knowledge of Mandarin/Cantonese equivalents, I wonder if
the expression /ts'iu55/ that someone else posted is a match.

Thomas Chan

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Feb 21, 2002, 4:37:50 PM2/21/02
to
In article <amdd8.76$r4....@news.uchicago.edu>,

D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff wrote:
> In article <a4uqb8$3aisg$1...@ID-119091.news.dfncis.de>,
> Dylan Sung <dylanwhs....@pacific.net.hk> wrote:
>>"D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff" <de...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
>>news:oivc8.91$v4....@news.uchicago.edu...
>>> If memory serves (it's been a while since I saw any HK films), isn't there
>>> a common expletive that translates literally as "dregs"? It seems very
>>> close in meaning and usage to English "shit". (At least, that's how it's
>>> often translated in the subtitles.)
>>
>>Any of the following? (excuse the tones - SauDan, Patrick?)
>>
>>[snipped]

>
> Nope!
>
> The Mandarin is <cao>, but I'm not sure about the tone. (I know there is

I think the 'dregs' one you're referring to must be M. zao1:

, ; ,,,,;,;,,,,
';' ,,,;,;,,,
'';''; ';';' ;
;;','''''''''
' ; ;''''';
; ;''''';
; ;''''';

But the equivalent expletive in Cantonese is C. bai6 'bad':

', ; ,' ;
,,,;,,, ,''';'
; ,;, ;'', ,'
;' ; '; ,',
' , '' ', ''
'''';''''';''''
,' ;

(Sometimes a 'mouth' radical is added to the left.)


> also a Mandarin <cao> which means "fuck", but the spelling is different--
> maybe the tone as well. My Taiwanese Mandarin dictionary only lists the
> milder vulgarities.)

No, that one's M. cao4, and it can be written in various ways.

The Cantonese word with that meaning, C. diu2, is different (and there's
also a number of ways to write it.)


Thomas Chan
tc...@cornell.edu

Percy Wing

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Feb 21, 2002, 8:46:48 PM2/21/02
to
[Tak To]

> Well, I think "asshole" is more or less equivalent to "bastard".
>
> However, if one wants to draw a fine line, then /p'uk kaai55/ etc
> are curses while "asshole" is not.

Again, 'Bastard' accuses the person being illegitimately born child,
thus, one of the parents, usually the materal infidelity, is being
humiliated in this case. Surely, people nowadays no longer recognize
'illegitimately born child' was immoral, but it must be harsh
acussation decades ago.

/p'uk kaai55/ is a curse (agree with your fine line) directly on the
person, making it gentler than 'bastard'.

Percy


Tak To <ta...@alum.mit.edu.-> wrote in message news:<3C753EDC...@alum.mit.edu.->...

Percy Wing

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Feb 21, 2002, 9:04:22 PM2/21/02
to
Lee Sau Dan <dan...@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote in message news:<m3pu2y6...@mika.informatik.uni-freiburg.de>...

> >>>>> "Percy" == Percy Wing <perc...@lycos.com> writes:
>
> Percy> Would you think "asshole" is a better counterpart of
> Percy> /p'uk5 kaai55/ and /sei35 p'uk5 kaai55/?
>
> I don't think so. These Cantonese swearwords have nothing to do with
> ("dirty") body parts at all. So, "asshole" doesn't fit. Maybe, "Go
> to hell!" would preserve this side of the expressions. :)

Yes, your suggestion is better. I suppose you are Cantonese?

Percy

Lee Sau Dan

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Feb 22, 2002, 5:24:39 AM2/22/02