finishing off with Magdalenian (declension system of PIE)

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Arnaud Fournet believes that he finished off with Magdalenian by asking me
about the origin of the declension system in PIE. We exchanged several
arguments. Here is a new reply to him that outlines a couple of problems
involved:

Magdalenian is deeper than PIE and its declension system (grammatical word
endings). I found Magdalenian also in Hebrew, via the Bible and the Goebekli
Tepe. Semitic has different declension systems. Grammatical suffixes (and
adfixes and infixes) are later additions to the basic words generated by
the four laws of Magdalenian. These words had been memorized and conveyed
as formulae, most often as double formulae used for ritual ceremonies.
A treasure of several hundred double formulae only would have sufficed.

I don't understand how a PIE shaman or priest should have memorized 30,000
till 50,000 lexical units (Mallora and Adams 2006) without written sources.
Magdalenian solves the problem with compounds. 400 words allow in principle
160,000 compounds of two words, or 64,000,000 compounds of three words,
or 25,600,000,000 words of four words like AD TOR OC CO Mycenaean atoroqo
Greek anthropos, the formula of the human condition (explained several times).

Compounds are the forte of Magdalenian, its poesy, from Greek poein 'to make',
its creative power.

Plenty so-called 'roots' of PIE, also of Hebrew, are such compounds.
You have still not provided evidence to the contrary.

If you believe that you can finish off with my Magdalernian nonsense,
why don't you start a separate thread and become the hero of sci.lang?
May it be that you fear my arguments are stronger than you'd like they
were? a mountain range appearing as a mere haze from the distance
but insurmountable when you get near?

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 10:11:16 AM UTC+3, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> Arnaud Fournet believes that he finished off with Magdalenian

Magdalenian never existed outside your fevered (nota bene, fevered, not fertile) imagination. Thus, it does not need to be finished off.

[Arnaud Fournet]

Le mercredi 14 août 2019 09:11:16 UTC+2, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
> Arnaud Fournet believes that he finished off with Magdalenian by asking me
> about the origin of the declension system in PIE. We exchanged several
> arguments. Here is a new reply to him that outlines a couple of problems
> involved:
>
> Magdalenian is deeper than PIE and its declension system (grammatical word
> endings). I found Magdalenian also in Hebrew, via the Bible and the Goebekli
> Tepe. Semitic has different declension systems. Grammatical suffixes (and
> adfixes and infixes) are later additions to the basic words generated by
> the four laws of Magdalenian. These words had been memorized and conveyed
> as formulae, most often as double formulae used for ritual ceremonies.
> A treasure of several hundred double formulae only would have sufficed.
>
> I don't understand how a PIE shaman or priest should have memorized 30,000
> till 50,000 lexical units (Mallora and Adams 2006) without written sources.
> Magdalenian solves the problem with compounds. 400 words allow in principle
> 160,000 compounds of two words, or 64,000,000 compounds of three words,
> or 25,600,000,000 words of four words like AD TOR OC CO Mycenaean atoroqo
> Greek anthropos, the formula of the human condition (explained several times).
>
> Compounds are the forte of Magdalenian, its poesy, from Greek poein 'to make',
> its creative power.
>
> Plenty so-called 'roots' of PIE, also of Hebrew, are such compounds.
> You have still not provided evidence to the contrary.
>
> If you believe that you can finish off with my Magdalernian nonsense,

Your "Magdalernian nonsense" !!
Agreed.

[Daud Deden]

Compounds are the forte of Magdalenian, its poesy, from Greek poein 'to make',

> its c/reative power.


Poesy@Grk: poetic(rhythmic)

Poa@Azt: count

Bua(t/h/ng)@Mly: do, fruit-fertl-birth/eject

[Franz Gnaedinger]

The poetic genius of Magdalenian becomes apparent in surviving cvompounds
which made language inflate: a few words can be arranged to very many
compounds which then were contracted to words, or so-called roots of
Nostratic and PIE. Reminds me somehow of the inflation of the early
universe. Or, more realistically, of the quickly growing diversity of
Magdalenian tools. A new generations of linguists may find pleasure in
revealing those compounds, beyond my beginnings. Once they have learned
to look at language along the flow of time. Extrapolating the present
directly into a remote past can't solve all problems. We have to study
the rich legacy of the Stone Age and then proceed forward in time.

The poetic genius of Magdalenian compounds fills me with awe, poetic from
Greek poein 'do, make, build, create' - creating and shaping a world in
the mind.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

> The poetic genius of Magdalenian...

There is no poetic genius to Magdalenian. Now eat your strychnine, that is a good boy.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

> The poetic genius of Magdalenian becomes apparent in surviving cvompounds
> which made language inflate: a few words can be arranged to very many
> compounds which then were contracted to words, or so-called roots of
> Nostratic and PIE. Reminds me somehow of the inflation of the early
> universe. Or, more realistically, of the quickly growing diversity of
> Magdalenian tools. A new generations of linguists may find pleasure in
> revealing those compounds, beyond my beginnings. Once they have learned
> to look at language along the flow of time. Extrapolating the present
> directly into a remote past can't solve all problems. We have to study
> the rich legacy of the Stone Age and then proceed forward in time.
>
> The poetic genius of Magdalenian compounds fills me with awe, poetic from
> Greek poein 'do, make, build, create' - creating and shaping a world in
> the mind.

I don't force my alternative approach to early language but wait for ideas
to bubble up on their own. Years ago I found an explanation for the origin
of articles, via the Divine Hind of Altamira who called life into existence,
while articles call the subsequent nouns into existence, as it were. I also
noticed that nominative and genitive etc. are sometimes different words,
most spectacular the case of Zeus, allegedly the only name in the Greek
pantheon that poses no problem

TYR for the one who overcomes in the double sense of rule and give,
TYR emphatic Middle Helladic Sseyr (Phaistos Disc, Derk Ohlenroth)
Doric Sseus (Wilhelm Larfeld) Homeric Zeus - Zeus the nominative

DhAG meaning able, good in the sense of able, wherefrom theos deus
dingir divine etc., also Dios - Dios the genitive of Zeus

Assuming that various declension systems (grammatical suffixes, affixes,
infixes) evolved together with agriculture that was invented more than
10,000 years ago in the region of the Goebekli Tepe, I left this field
to others, considering that many people work on sounds and grammar,
whereas semantics is being much neglected. Maybe one day I or somene
else may have an idea that fills the gap.

As I said, I don't force Magdalenian, and my hermeneutic interpretations
justify my work, among them Chauvet, Lascaux, Altamira, Abri Bourdois,
Goebekli Tepe, Phaistos Disc (in the wake of Derk Ohlenroth's decipherment),
Odyssey, Genesis, Exodus, Solomon and Ezekiel.

My stalker of more than thirteen years just recently claimed that he could
deliver such an interpretation within a quarter of an hour (whereas I needed
decades). He could but he can't. A little difference that makes him fly
from one range into the next one. He just told me to eat strichnyne.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

You do.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

On Thursday, August 15, 2019 at 9:42:39 AM UTC+3, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
>
>
> The poetic genius of Magdalenian compounds fills me with awe

Magdalenian compounds are your own creations. So, what you say amounts to 'My own poetic genius fills me with awe'.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

On Friday, August 16, 2019 at 10:21:47 AM UTC+3, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> He just told me to eat strichnyne.

You can't even spell "strychnine" correctly.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Panu Petteri Höglund, my stalker of more than thirteen years, tells me
to eat strychnine. If I did, I would finally get rid of him. On the other
hand I wish to go on with my work. What shall I do? I asked the neurons
in my brain. They held a poll. The result is pretty clear (if a soccer
team gained such victory they'd be world master forever)

200,000,000,000 : 0

for the second option. Well, being a democrat I follow their decision
and go on with my work.

Where is Arnaud Fournet? I started this thread for him, because he bragged
several times that I failed his test case. Here he could show how he can
finish off with me. And why is there no-one else apart from the höglhound?
Because you love Magdalenian. You love to hate it. And above all you love
the surprises that come from it and make sense. Magdalenian is far from
trivial.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

A win-win situation.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

> I don't force my alternative approach to early language but wait for ideas
> to bubble up on their own. Years ago I found an explanation for the origin
> of articles, via the Divine Hind of Altamira who called life into existence,
> while articles call the subsequent nouns into existence, as it were. I also
> noticed that nominative and genitive etc. are sometimes different words,
> most spectacular the case of Zeus, allegedly the only name in the Greek
> pantheon that poses no problem
>
> TYR for the one who overcomes in the double sense of rule and give,
> TYR emphatic Middle Helladic Sseyr (Phaistos Disc, Derk Ohlenroth)
> Doric Sseus (Wilhelm Larfeld) Homeric Zeus - Zeus the nominative
>
> DhAG meaning able, good in the sense of able, wherefrom theos deus
> dingir divine etc., also Dios - Dios the genitive of Zeus
>
> Assuming that various declension systems (grammatical suffixes, affixes,
> infixes) evolved together with agriculture that was invented more than
> 10,000 years ago in the region of the Goebekli Tepe, I left this field
> to others, considering that many people work on sounds and grammar,
> whereas semantics is being much neglected. Maybe one day I or somene
> else may have an idea that fills the gap.
>
> As I said, I don't force Magdalenian, and my hermeneutic interpretations
> justify my work, among them Chauvet, Lascaux, Altamira, Abri Bourdois,
> Goebekli Tepe, Phaistos Disc (in the wake of Derk Ohlenroth's decipherment),
> Odyssey, Genesis, Exodus, Solomon and Ezekiel.

A few grammatical elements turn Magdalenian from a ritual shamanic language
to a practical and functional everyday language. In the spring of 2005 I wrote
a fisherman's complaint; a speech of a time traveling teacher asking the parents
of a Magdalenian belle for her hand; and on Pentecost 2005 a cheeky assistant
of the Holy Ghost helped me retrieve the summer hit from Montignac in 14 385 BC

LET US JOIN THE SUMMER FESTIVAL OF MONTIGNAC, number 1 Magdalenian hit in the
summer of 14,385 BC; you hear first a man sing, then a woman reply, then their
voices join in the refrain; accompanied by flutes and drums:

CA LAB CA LAB CA LAB CA LAB ...
TA'T LAB, MA OC
CA BEL CA BEL CA BEL CA BEL ...
TA'T BEL, MA OC

CA BAL CA BAL CA BAL CA BAL ...
TA'T BAL, MEL OC
MAJA VOD MAC-DA'-LUN-AC

CA LAB CA LAB CA LAB CA LAB ...
MA'M LAB, MA OC
CA BEL CA BEL CA BEL CA BEL ...
MA'M BEL, MA OC
CA BAL CA BAL CA BAL CA BAL ...
MA'M BAL, MA OC
ELM MAC VOD BEL-CA-UR-AC

PESH VAD UR
SHDEB MON DIG LUN AC

PESH VAD UR
SHDEB MON DIG LUN AC


Free translation:

Do you hear the winter sun-horse?
You have cold, apple of my eye.

Do you hear the spring sun-horse?
You have warm, my darling.

Do you hear the summer sun-horse?
You have hot, honey,
Daughter of a chief of the Moonshine Valley

I hear the winter sun-horse,
I have cold, apple of my eye.

I hear the spring sun-horse,
I have warm, my darling.

I hear the summer sun-horse,
I have hot, my love,
Noble son of a chief from the land of the warm blue sky

Let us swim in the deep blue river Vézère,
And then join the summer festival of Montignac

Let us swim in the beautiful deep blue river Vézère,
And then happily join the summer festival of Montignac

PS A tutoree of mine with a serious dyscalculy but a wonderful singing voice
interpreted the song directly from the leaf. Her beautiful clear voice and
the ad hoc melodies inspired by the special language rang through the whole
building. Marvellous.

Esperanto produced no Beatles and no ABBAs.

PIE has but Schleicher's tale, neither a novel nor a songbook.

Magdalenian passed the singing test with flying colors.

[António Marques]

Franz Gnaedinger <fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> Esperanto produced no Beatles and no ABBAs.

There is nothing good that can be said about Eo.

> Magdalenian passed the singing test

As would anything sung by a nice woman, from the perspective of someone who
is attracted to women.


> with flying colors.

Not, however, the language test - how do you know the first verses are 'do
you....?' and the latter ones are 'Yes, I...'?

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 2:21:29 PM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:
>
> Not, however, the language test - how do you know the first verses are 'do
> you....?' and the latter ones are 'Yes, I...'?

Magdalenian was spoken directly, from one person to the other, embedded in
body language, making reference to the situation. This doesn't work anymore
when I spend holidays on a shore of the Barbados (which I never did) reading
a book about the expedition to the Arctica in the nineteenth century -
the surroundings and the book are in a wide contrast, which must be bridged
by a lot of words and explicit grammatical constructions.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 3:21:29 PM UTC+3, António Marques wrote:
> Franz Gnaedinger <fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> >
> > Esperanto produced no Beatles and no ABBAs.
>
> There is nothing good that can be said about Eo.

Yes, there is. Esperanto is a language that can be learned, studied and spoken, which makes it infinitely better than Magdalenian.

It has also produced its own pop musicians, such as the Dolcxamar band I pointed out to Franz years ago. However, Franz did not register this, because Franz is basically an automaton designed for repeating its programmed prejudices.

[António Marques]

Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski <craoi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 3:21:29 PM UTC+3, António Marques wrote:
>> Franz Gnaedinger <fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>> Esperanto produced no Beatles and no ABBAs.
>>
>> There is nothing good that can be said about Eo.
>
> Yes, there is. Esperanto is a language that can be learned, studied and
> spoken, which makes it infinitely better than Magdalenian.

Barely. The whole 'every word class has a specific ending' thing makes it
incredibly ugly, along with other things that make it even more so.
Is there even any human language with such a feature?

> It has also produced its own pop musicians, such as the Dolcxamar band I
> pointed out to Franz years ago.

Ugh.

> However, Franz did not register this, because Franz is basically an
> automaton designed for repeating its programmed prejudices.

It's a bit like those wasps who you can trick into repeating the same
chores again and again and again and again and again.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 10:33:28 PM UTC+3, António Marques wrote:
> Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski <craoi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 3:21:29 PM UTC+3, António Marques wrote:
> >> Franz Gnaedinger <fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Esperanto produced no Beatles and no ABBAs.
> >>
> >> There is nothing good that can be said about Eo.
> >
> > Yes, there is. Esperanto is a language that can be learned, studied and
> > spoken, which makes it infinitely better than Magdalenian.
>
> Barely. The whole 'every word class has a specific ending' thing makes it
> incredibly ugly, along with other things that make it even more so.
> Is there even any human language with such a feature?

There probably is. I don't think it is particularly beautiful either, but it can get young people laid, and that is raison d'etre enough for it.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 10:30:17 AM UTC+2, Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski wrote:
>
> It has also produced its own pop musicians, such as the Dolcxamar band I pointed out to Franz years ago. However, Franz did not register this, because Franz is basically an automaton designed for repeating its programmed prejudices.

We had this before, even twice. The Dolcxamar band are neither the Beatles
nor the ABBAs. What I heard of songs in Esperanto was rather stilted.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 9:33:28 PM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:
>
> It's a bit like those wasps who you can trick into repeating the same
> chores again and again and again and again and again.

Evolution does just that, repeating a biological algorithm over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over again, sometimes a mistake happens but changes nothing
much, or a bad mistake means the end, but occsionally a good mutation
occurs and makes things move forward.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Apart from that I introduced a grammatical element (as I said: a few
grammatical elements turn Magdalenian into a regular language), namely
T'AT LAB, T'AT BEL, T'AT BAL, inspired by French tu as 'you have',
you are/have cold, warm, hot. Magdalenian began as an experiment in
Paleo-linguistics, and the transition form a word generator used for
ritual purposes to a regular language will also come from experiments.
I don't force the Magdalenian approach. For the time being the word
generator is sufficient for my purpose, a tool for hermeneutic inter-
pretations of cave art and rock art and mobile art and early literature.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

"Stilted" is just one of your snarl words. Actually, you did recognize that the Dolcxamar are able musicians, but you have this neurotic prejudice that Esperanto, for some reasons, never leads to anything worthy.

This reminds me of one racy anecdote: a French professor (of course a French one) tells his students that Esperanto is a stilted language, and that you can't have sexual intercourse*) in Esperanto. One girl then raises her hand and says: "Um...I have done it."

*) In the original version, it was of course "you can't make love in Esperanto", but "to make love" is a stilted euphemism for sexual intercourse.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 5:46:23 AM UTC-4, Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski wrote:

> This reminds me of one racy anecdote: a French professor (of course a French one) tells his students that Esperanto is a stilted language, and that you can't have sexual intercourse*) in Esperanto. One girl then raises her hand and says: "Um...I have done it."
>
> *) In the original version, it was of course "you can't make love in Esperanto", but "to make love" is a stilted euphemism for sexual intercourse.

How do you have sex in a language?

[Ruud Harmsen]

Thu, 22 Aug 2019 02:46:21 -0700 (PDT): M?cis?aw Wojna-Bojewski
<craoi...@gmail.com> scribeva:

>"Stilted" is just one of your snarl words. Actually, you did recognize that=
> the Dolcxamar are able musicians, but you have this neurotic prejudice tha=

>t Esperanto, for some reasons, never leads to anything worthy.

It does, sometimes.
https://rudhar.com/lingtics/intrlnga/ambival.htm
https://rudhar.com/religion/Homaranismo/trdhomia.htm

>This reminds me of one racy anecdote: a French professor (of course a Frenc=
>h one)

French, not Frenc\nh

>tells his students that Esperanto is a stilted language, and that yo=
>u can't have sexual intercourse*) in Esperanto. One girl then raises her ha=

>nd and says: "Um...I have done it."

Fiki is the word, I believe?

>*) In the original version, it was of course "you can't make love in Espera=

>nto", but "to make love" is a stilted euphemism for sexual intercourse.

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

[Ruud Harmsen]

Thu, 22 Aug 2019 02:46:21 -0700 (PDT): M?cis?aw Wojna-Bojewski
<craoi...@gmail.com> scribeva:

>*) In the original version, it was of course "you can't make love in Espera=

>nto", but "to make love" is a stilted euphemism for sexual intercourse.

Serious question: does the perfectly innocuous Portuguese word ficar
mean anything obscene in Spanish?

Someone somewhere else suggested that. Meso America or Columbia or
some such.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Thu, 22 Aug 2019 21:33:36 +0200: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
scribeva:

Rato, rata, ratón, ratão.

Any comments?

[António Marques]

Eh?
Rat(inh)a means beaver.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

I gather you only use foreign prostitutes who don't speak your language,

[Daud Deden]

An example of your 'scientific methodology' no doubt.

[Ruud Harmsen]

Thu, 22 Aug 2019 20:42:16 -0000 (UTC): António Marques
<anton...@sapo.pt> scribeva:

My wife, learning Spanish, asked me about rato. I though rat and/of
mouse, from Portuguese, but it Spanish it means "while, period,
stretch of time", but rata = rat, ratón = mouse, while pt rata, as you
say, means beaver (not the animal).

Confusing, no?

Interlingua: rat = ratto, mouse = mus, mure, mouse.

[Peter T. Daniels]

What does speaking a language have to do with the sex act?

You're the one that changed "make love" to "have sex."

[António Marques]

Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com> wrote:
> Thu, 22 Aug 2019 20:42:16 -0000 (UTC): António Marques
> <anton...@sapo.pt> scribeva:
>
>> Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com> wrote:
>>> Thu, 22 Aug 2019 21:33:36 +0200: Ruud Harmsen <r...@rudhar.com>
>>> scribeva:
>>>
>>>> Thu, 22 Aug 2019 02:46:21 -0700 (PDT): M?cis?aw Wojna-Bojewski
>>>> <craoi...@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>>>
>>>>> *) In the original version, it was of course "you can't make love in Espera=
>>>>> nto", but "to make love" is a stilted euphemism for sexual intercourse.
>>>>
>>>> Serious question: does the perfectly innocuous Portuguese word ficar
>>>> mean anything obscene in Spanish?
>>>>
>>>> Someone somewhere else suggested that. Meso America or Columbia or
>>>> some such.
>>>
>>> Rato, rata, ratón, ratão.
>>>
>>> Any comments?
>>
>> Eh?
>> Rat(inh)a means beaver.
>
> My wife, learning Spanish, asked me about rato. I though rat and/of
> mouse, from Portuguese, but it Spanish it means "while, period,
> stretch of time",

(a small one)

I can't say the spanish meaning feels alien, maybe because we're used to
'rato' carrying the idea of 'smallness' almost as much as that of 'mouse'.
If you ask a child if they're hungry, they may reply they have a
ratinho/ratito (presumably in their stomach doing mouse-y things), which
will mean they're just a tiny bit hungry.
There's also the exceedingly rare verb 'ratear'.

> but rata = rat, ratón = mouse, while pt rata, as you
> say, means beaver (not the animal).
>
> Confusing, no?

In Brazil a computer mouse is called 'mouse' /'mawsI/.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

There is this thing called consensual sex act. To establish the consensus you use language. Moreover, sexual arousal can be created by using sexually explicit language.

>
> You're the one that changed "make love" to "have sex."

"Make love" is a euphemistic and insincere expression of the kind that should only be used ironically. And I didn't change it into "have sex", but into "sexual intercourse", if my memory serves.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, August 23, 2019 at 9:38:12 AM UTC-4, Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski wrote:
> On Friday, August 23, 2019 at 3:05:40 PM UTC+3, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 6:28:29 PM UTC-4, Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski wrote:
> > > On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 2:49:27 PM UTC+3, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 5:46:23 AM UTC-4, Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski wrote:

> > > > > This reminds me of one racy anecdote: a French professor (of course a French one) tells his students that Esperanto is a stilted language, and that you can't have sexual intercourse*) in Esperanto. One girl then raises her hand and says: "Um...I have done it."
> > > > > *) In the original version, it was of course "you can't make love in Esperanto", but "to make love" is a stilted euphemism for sexual intercourse.
> > > > How do you have sex in a language?
> > > I gather you only use foreign prostitutes who don't speak your language,
> > What does speaking a language have to do with the sex act?
>
> There is this thing called consensual sex act. To establish the consensus you use language. Moreover, sexual arousal can be created by using sexually explicit language.

Now you're talking about things that go _before_ the sex act.

> > You're the one that changed "make love" to "have sex."
>
> "Make love" is a euphemistic and insincere expression of the kind that should only be used ironically.

False. Are you suggesting that there is nothing to interpersonal, intimate
relationships other than the sex act?

> And I didn't change it into "have sex", but into "sexual intercourse", if my memory serves.

And I changed that to the normal way of saying it in colloquial English.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

> Apart from that I introduced a grammatical element (as I said: a few
> grammatical elements turn Magdalenian into a regular language), namely
> T'AT LAB, T'AT BEL, T'AT BAL, inspired by French tu as 'you have',
> you are/have cold, warm, hot. Magdalenian began as an experiment in
> Paleo-linguistics, and the transition form a word generator used for
> ritual purposes to a regular language will also come from experiments.
> I don't force the Magdalenian approach. For the time being the word
> generator is sufficient for my purpose, a tool for hermeneutic inter-
> pretations of cave art and rock art and mobile art and early literature.

Magdalenian as word generator allows hermeneutic interpretations,
and helps me deepen them. The latter is the case in the case of Homer's
Odyssey. It helped me solve the Ithaca riddle - no traces found on the
island of Ithaca that goes along with Homer. Below the shortest possible
summary of the epic, result of decades of studies and working. (The Finn
who is not a Finn but an Irishman and not an Irishman but a Slav bragged
that he could write such an interpretation within a quarter of an hour
- why don't we ever see anything like that from him?). And who cares
about finishing off with Magdalenian? As I said, you guys love it.


Odysseus returns home from Troy and arrives in Ithaca, which named the
Peloponnese and especially the Argolis, and survives in the name of a
relatively small island off the southwestern Peloponnese - young bull ITA
sky CA, together ITA CA Ithaca, under the sky of the young Zeus bull
(mature bull ATI sky CA, together ATI CA Attica, under the sky of the
mature Zeus bull). The hero sleeps on the shore of his home. A long series
of dreams bring him back to - Troy, Troy in disguise, and blended with other
places and periods of time. In his first dream he encounters the one-eyed
giant Polyphem, Homeric symbol of Troy, his one eye the acropolis overlooking
the wide river plain, his body downtown Troy VIIa that provided protected
shelter for 5,000 to 10,000 people, and his den or cave the harbor in the
Besik bay where foreign ships (apart from the Greek ones) waited for favorable
winds and were forced to pay high tributes and fees. (And the Trojan horse?
a proud Achaean ship with the bow of a stallion, seemingly empty, drifting by
the harbor in the Besik bay ...) The first dream tells the war from the
Greek perspective. In his last dream he reaches pleasant Scherie, recognized
by Eberhard Zangger as a time travel to an early Troy (dramatic journey end
of book 5, idyllic arrival beginning of book 6). When Odysseus rcognizes
where he is and what a lovely place he destroyed, or will destroy in the time
perspective of the Phaeakians, he can't help but weeping. The final dream
tells him the war from the Trojan perspective. Now he falls in a deep sleep.
On the following morning he is ready for his next task, freeing his home
from the shameless suitors of his wife Penelope, those who profit from
the land without meeting their obligations, Penelope from PAS LOP, everywhere
PAS fortified settlements enveloped by surrounding palisades or walls LOP, and
Peloponnese from POL LOP PAS, fortified settlements POL (Greek singular polis)
enveloped by surrounding palisades or walls LOP everywhere PAS. And beautiful
Helen, cause of the Trojan war? she personifies tin, KAL EN Helen, tin found
in EN mines of the Underworld KAL in Central Asia, bound to pass the Darda-
nelles where the Trojans laid hands on the precious cargo, abducting Helen,
as it were.

The Odyssey is a modern book, anticipating Freud's dream logic, and science
fiction with a time travel.

Lord Laertes the gardener, father of Odysseus, is the hero of the Phaistos
Disc as deciphered by Derk Ohlenroth, Eponymous Tiryns; Odysseus personifies
the end of the Helladic period; and his son Telemachos 'Far Away War' Greece
in the time of the second Messenian war. Homer 2 of the Odyssey (compiling
material of a dozen or even sixteen bards, Ricardo Mansilla) feared for the
coherence of the Greek civilization (symbolized by Odysseus shooting an arrow
through the handle holes of seventeen axes, a near impossible feat). Homer 1
of the Iliad flourished in the time of the first Messenian war and was moti-
vated by the same deep concern.

[Arnaud Fournet]

Le jeudi 29 août 2019 09:00:05 UTC+2, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
> > Apart from that I introduced a grammatical element (as I said: a few
> > grammatical elements turn Magdalenian into a regular language), namely
> > T'AT LAB, T'AT BEL, T'AT BAL, inspired by French tu as 'you have',
> > you are/have cold, warm, hot. Magdalenian began as an experiment in
> > Paleo-linguistics, and the transition form a word generator used for
> > ritual purposes to a regular language will also come from experiments.
> > I don't force the Magdalenian approach. For the time being the word
> > generator is sufficient for my purpose, a tool for hermeneutic inter-
> > pretations of cave art and rock art and mobile art and early literature.
>
>
> Magdalenian as word generator allows hermeneutic interpretations,
> and helps me deepen them. The latter is the case in the case of Homer's
> Odyssey. It helped me solve the Ithaca riddle - no traces found on the
> island of Ithaca that goes along with Homer. Below the shortest possible
> summary of the epic, result of decades of studies and working. (The Finn
> who is not a Finn but an Irishman and not an Irishman but a Slav bragged
> that he could write such an interpretation within a quarter of an hour
> - why don't we ever see anything like that from him?). And who cares
> about finishing off with Magdalenian? As I said, you guys love it.

Five seconds of absolute glee.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Yes, you love Magdalenian too, you just don't know it yet.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

A word on apperception and 'fulguration'


I learned several languages, among them Latin and Ancient Greek, for years,
intensively, and studied (on my own) cave art and rock art and mobile art,
modern art and Renaissance art and Greek art and Egyptian art and Celtic art,
for decades, also early literature, Homer's Odyssey and the Bible.

If you learn a lot, not only from textbooks but also along ideas and
experiments of your own, you can aquire what is called apperception,
a higher form being 'fulguration' - a deep insight seemingly coming out
of nowhere.

Such a moment linked a stunning piece of rock art and word language.
Late Klaus Schmidt, excavator of the Goebekli Tepe, showed the big limestone
ring from there in his book, saying its meaning is not known. Well, I saw
a male head ex negativo, the sky shining through, the face consisting of
nothing else than air and light - and this made the spark fly. I thought of
Ouranos read as AAR RAA NOS, he of air AAR (poetic German has Aar for eagle,
König der Lüfte, king of the airs, plural) and light RAA (the supreme Egyptian
god RA made his appearance in the solar disc) and a mind NOS of his own
(Greek nous 'mind), so the Greek sky god Ouranos would originally have been
AAR RAA NOS, he of air AAR and lightr RAA and a mind NOS of his own,
personifying the sky

http://www.seshat.ch/home/ouranos.JPG

Ouranos was the only Greek god who had no temple and no shrine. Instead
he had the most glorious natural sanctuary, valleys, hollows between hills
and mountains filled with air and light, for example the Val d'Hérens
in the western Swiss Alps, leading up to a hevanly throne flanked by
shining white snow covered mountains

AAR RAA NOS ARANOS eRANS Hérens

Other apperceptions and 'fulgurations' linked cave art and language, again
visual language and word language.

I documented every step of my Magdalenian adventure in sci.lang, from
early 2005 till today, end of August 2019.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

- Cave art gives us no clue to how the people of Lascaux or Altamira
spoke.

- The pictographic symbols in Göbekli Tepe give us no clue to how the
people of Göbekli Tepe spoke.

- Anyone stating the opposite must make available some evidence that
can be scrutinized by other scholars, and the clues this person claims
to have found, must be observable and recognizable by other people.

- Moreover, the discoverer must be able to explain, in commonsense
logical terms, how he or she has arrived at his results. His chain of
conclusions must be "nachvollzogen" by other scholars.

- You have not been able to present us with either evidence or
conclusions. Instead, you have repeatedly attacked and poured scorn
over people who have demanded such things.

- On the other hand, PIE is based on solid evidence and its proponents
have left us clear instructions, evidence, and reasonings to be
"nachvollzogen".

- Their conclusions are based on a comprehensive understanding and
comparison of the languages involved.

- On the other hand, you are demonstrably ignorant of several branches
of Indo-European. You have admitted that you know not a single Slavic
language.You actually pour scorn and disdain over people who have
learnt languages unknown to you.

- Thus, and therefore, we don't feel morally or intellectually
compelled to take Magdalenian seriously.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Those who have no sensibility for visual language can't nachvollzogen
Magdalenian, nor nachvollzügen, let alone nachvollziegen.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

[Franz Gnaedinger]

If a hypothesis can be compared to a board, a theory to a piece of furniture
cleverly and carefully assembled from several boards.

Magdalenian has reached the status of a theory that proves its worth and
usefulness in an array of hermeneutic interpretations.

More than half a century ago we read large parts of Homer's Odyssey in the
original Greek in school. I liked the language, and the dramatic arrival
at pleasant Scherie, followed by an idyllic morning. But what is all about?

A first idea came from Eberhard Zangger at the beginning of the 1990s.
He recognized the journey to Scherie as a time travel 'avant la lettre'
to an early Troy, while regarding the report of the other stories as mere
sailor's yarn.

I made the next step, interpreting all those travels as dreams, a long series
of dreams that bring Odysseus back to Troy, Troy in disguise and blended with
other places and periods of time, beginning with Polyphem, a most famous
cyclops, a one-eyed giant, Homeric symbol of Troy, his eye the acropolis

overlooking the wide river plain, his body downtown Troy VIIa that provided

protected shelter for 5,000 - 10,000 people ...

Magdalenian helped me sort out several problems, for example the Ithaca riddle
- there is absolutley no archaeological trace linking the island of that name
to Homer. Well, Magdalenian offers ITA CA, young bull ITA sky CA, under the
sky of the young Zeus bull, and ATI CA, mature bull ATI sky CA, under the sky
of the mature Zeus bull. So Ithaca would originally have been the Peoponnese
and especially the Argolis, a name surviving in a relatively small island off
the northwestern peninsula, followed by Attica on the Greek mainland.

Once again, I don't make up words as I go along but mined them all in the spring
of 2005 and mainly in the spring of 2006 with my four laws of Magdalenian.

A good part of my endeavor is to make things simple, easily understandable
for a sympathetic reader. Please don't confound simple with naive and
simplistic.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Believers in the ruling paradigm can't "nachvollogen" nachvollzügen nachvoll- ziegen a new approach, but eventually, Thomas S. Kuhn wrote, they will die
out, and the young ones have no problem trying out a promising new idea.
As a grim saying goes: the sciences advance burial by burial.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2019-09-02 07:18:31 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:

>
> [ … ]

> Believers in the ruling paradigm can't "nachvollogen" nachvollzügen
> nachvoll- ziegen a new approach, but eventually, Thomas S. Kuhn wrote,
> they will die

I've rarely come across _any_ real scientists who pay the slightest
attention to Thomas Kuhn. Kuhn knew a bit about physics, but bugger all
about chemistry or biology. I'd be surprised if he had anything useful
to say about linguistics. If you want to read a book written by someone
so much in love with his own ideas that he has the word "paradigm"
about three times on every page, then The Structure of Scientific
Revolutions might be just your thing. Come to think of it you are
yourself in love with your fantasies I'm not too surprised that you
like Kuhn.

> out, and the young ones have no problem trying out a promising new idea.

What "promising new idea"? I suppose you mean your Magdalenian musings,
but can you cite just one young (or old, or middle-aged) scientist who
takes them seriously?

> As a grim saying goes: the sciences advance burial by burial.

--
athel

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 8:47:34 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> I've rarely come across _any_ real scientists who pay the slightest
> attention to Thomas Kuhn. Kuhn knew a bit about physics, but bugger all
> about chemistry or biology. I'd be surprised if he had anything useful
> to say about linguistics.

In fact his analysis fit the rise of Chomsky very well.

Just this morning NPR reported a study from MIT (if they said where it's
published, I missed it) finding that when a senior researcher dies, there's
a spurt of new publications by junior researchers in that field.

Seems like a correlary of Kuhn.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Man is the measure of everything (Protagoras). My stalker of more than
thirteen years, Panu Petteri Höglund, takes it personally. What _he_ can't
understand, nobody can. If _he_ has no sensibility for reading visual language,
nobody does. And if _he_ has little knowledge of cave art, so does everybody
else.

He deliberately ignores what I say on my explanation of how the big limestone
ring on the Goebekli Tepe inspired the reading AAR RAA NOS for the sky god
of air AAR and light RAA with a mind NOS of his own - knowledge in many fields
made the spark fly.

He snubs my hermeneutic interpretations that prove the worth and usefulness
of my alternative approach to early language. I needed decades for my
elucidation of Homer's Odyssey. He just eclipsed it by saying he could write
such a piece within a quarter of an hour. Why, then, don't we ever get
anything like it from him? Only meta-statements, as his lines above,
expurgated version of an insult ridden message he posted to an inadequate
thread, but I saw it.

(may be continued)

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Imagination is a precious tool of the mind. With imagination we combine
the fleeting impressions we get from the senses to a stable and coherent
picture of the world. Where are you just now? Maybe in your office? Then
you probably can't see your loved ones, but knowing them so well, and
the places they frequent, you can almost see them before the inner eye.

Gaël de Guichen: Archaeology is not an exact science but a speculative one,
a science of imagination.

Archaeological imagination combines isolated fragments of a remote past.
My studies in art and early literature are complemented by the study of
early mathematics that reveal a phenomenon: the ancient ones encoded
complex relations in simple numbers and telling problems from which
they can be unfolded again by playing with the numbers.

The Rhind Mathematical Papyrus from Ancient Egypt, ca. 1650 BC, is the copy
of a lost scroll from around 1850 BC. Ahmose (the copist) announces all
secrets, but then follow dry arithmetical calculations, disappointing scholars.
Where are the promised secrets? On hidden levels! Take for example RMP 32.
Ahmose divides 2 by 1 + 1/3 + 1/4 or simply 1 '3 '4 and obtains 1 '6 '12 '114
'228

Apparent level, 1) Beginners learn how to operate with unit fraction series.

Hidden level, 2) Advanced learners are given a more demanding task. Imagine
a right parallel-epiped measuring 2 by 1 '3 '4 by 1 '6 '12 '114 '228 units.
How long is the diagonal of the volume? Impossible to calculate!, exclaim
the pupils. Easily done, smiles Ahmose

1 '3 '4 plus 1 '6 '12 '114 '228

1 1 plus '3 '6 plus '114 '228

2 '2 '3 '76 units

Hidden level, 3) Divide 2 by any number A and you obtain B. Let a right
parallel-epiped measure 2 by A by B units, and the diagonal will measure
exactly A+B units. Use this theorem for calculating rectangular granaries
of the inner height 10 royal cubits or 2 units, and the capacity 500 cubic
cubits ...

Play with the numbers of the RMP and free yourself from the dogma of the
Greek invention of real mathematics. Imagination will overcome the cultural
bias, obstacle on the way to a fair history of civilization, which is the
sine qua non of a prospering global society.

of a prospering globaö

[Arnaud Fournet]

No, you may not.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, September 3, 2019 at 2:27:33 AM UTC-4, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:

> Man is the measure of everything (Protagoras).

Normally rendered as "Man is the measure of all things."

[Ruud Harmsen]

Tue, 3 Sep 2019 05:35:44 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> scribeva:

>On Tuesday, September 3, 2019 at 2:27:33 AM UTC-4, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
>
>> Man is the measure of everything (Protagoras).
>
>Normally rendered as "Man is the measure of all things."

No. I am.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Magdalenian is a multidimensional approach. It requires not only broad
knowledge including archaeology and anthropology but also a sensibility
for visual language and the ability of recognizing symbols in cave art,
rock art, mobile art and early literature - you can't read the Odyssey
and the Bible in the way we read a modern history book.

Learning a few ancient languages is enough. You don't need to know
every IE language. On the contrary, the languages you don't know
serve as a test. In 2006 I proposed KOD for tent, hut, and found
plenty derivatives in the languages I know. Then I consulted a Sanskrit
dictionary and was pleased to find many more. This told me that
I reached a deep level of language evolution and development.

The ramifications of Magdalenian lead me on and on. I still see no end.
Sooner or later others will take over. The array of hermeneutic inter-
pretations already gained compensate largely for the troubles I got
me in.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

[António Marques]

Franz Gnaedinger <fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> Magdalenian is a multidimensional approach. It requires not only broad
> knowledge including archaeology and anthropology but also a sensibility
> for visual language and the ability of recognizing symbols in cave art,
> rock art, mobile art and early literature

...and if someone somewhere has all of that, they'll still not arrive at
your specific syllables.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 12:06:01 AM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:

They can use the words I mined with my four laws of Magdalenian, or they
can propose words of their own.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:39 AM UTC-4, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:

> They can use the words I mined with my four laws of Magdalenian, or they
> can propose words of their own.

Those are Magdalengesetze, enforced by the Magdalenpolizei? With no
exceptions, and they work under all conditions?

Hypocrite.

[António Marques]

A scientists only uses the results of another scientist after those same
results are successfully obtained by other scientists. Until you get
someone to be able to derive the same syllables that you do, they're
useless to anyone but yourself.
(I suppose this qualifies as meta-babble?)

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

1. Cave art gives us no clue to how the people of Lascaux or Altamira
spoke.

2. The pictographic symbols in Göbekli Tepe give us no clue to how the

people of Göbekli Tepe spoke.

3, Anyone stating the opposite must make available some evidence that

can be scrutinized by other scholars, and the clues this person claims
to have found, must be observable and recognizable by other people.

4. Moreover, the discoverer must be able to explain, in commonsense

logical terms, how he or she has arrived at his results. His chain of
conclusions must be "nachvollzogen" by other scholars.

5. You have not been able to present us with either evidence or

conclusions. Instead, you have repeatedly attacked and poured scorn
over people who have demanded such things.

6. On the other hand, PIE is based on solid evidence and its proponents

have left us clear instructions, evidence, and reasonings to be
"nachvollzogen".

7. Their conclusions are based on a comprehensive understanding and

comparison of the languages involved.

8. On the other hand, you are demonstrably ignorant of several branches

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Sure does. Go for a test case of mine.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Greek theorein means to look at, observe. Rules or laws are found by patient
observation, or by luck, or both. I use my four laws of Magdalenian, and call
them laws, the rules of my game. The novelty is that words come in groups,
in permutation groups, and they have a possible connection to the three-letter
words of the DNA, making Magdalenian an extended phenotype. New possibilities
to consider, denizen of Boremia.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

1. Cave art gives us no clue to how the people of Lascaux or Altamira
spoke.

2. The pictographic symbols in Göbekli Tepe give us no clue to how the

people of Göbekli Tepe spoke.

3, Anyone stating the opposite must make available some evidence that

can be scrutinized by other scholars, and the clues this person claims
to have found, must be observable and recognizable by other people.

4. Moreover, the discoverer must be able to explain, in commonsense

logical terms, how he or she has arrived at his results. His chain of
conclusions must be "nachvollzogen" by other scholars.

5. You have not been able to present us with either evidence or

conclusions. Instead, you have repeatedly attacked and poured scorn
over people who have demanded such things.

6. On the other hand, PIE is based on solid evidence and its proponents

have left us clear instructions, evidence, and reasonings to be
"nachvollzogen".

7. Their conclusions are based on a comprehensive understanding and

comparison of the languages involved.

8. On the other hand, you are demonstrably ignorant of several branches

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

1. Cave art gives us no clue to how the people of Lascaux or Altamira
spoke.

2. The pictographic symbols in Göbekli Tepe give us no clue to how the

people of Göbekli Tepe spoke.

3, Anyone stating the opposite must make available some evidence that

can be scrutinized by other scholars, and the clues this person claims
to have found, must be observable and recognizable by other people.

4. Moreover, the discoverer must be able to explain, in commonsense

logical terms, how he or she has arrived at his results. His chain of
conclusions must be "nachvollzogen" by other scholars.

5. You have not been able to present us with either evidence or

conclusions. Instead, you have repeatedly attacked and poured scorn
over people who have demanded such things.

6. On the other hand, PIE is based on solid evidence and its proponents

have left us clear instructions, evidence, and reasonings to be
"nachvollzogen".

7. Their conclusions are based on a comprehensive understanding and

comparison of the languages involved.

8. On the other hand, you are demonstrably ignorant of several branches

[António Marques]

I did. You haven't been able to produce a single person, anywhere, capable
of recreating your syllables. Not one of your syllables. Each one of your
syllables has been a complete failure so far.

[Peter T. Daniels]

How would he do that?

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 2:42:05 PM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:
>
> I did. You haven't been able to produce a single person, anywhere, capable
> of recreating your syllables. Not one of your syllables. Each one of your
> syllables has been a complete failure so far.

Ferdinand de Saussure at age 16 proposed three words that are very close
to mine, without my knowing; Richard Fester even more that I knew and relied
on. Go for a testcase of mine instead of dropping ever more meta-verdicts.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Go have your memory tested in a competent facility. I told you many times:
provide arguments for your version, and I provide arguments for mine, then
we shall see which ones are better

[Arnaud Fournet]

Le lundi 9 septembre 2019 09:15:58 UTC+2, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
> On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 2:42:05 PM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:
> >
> > I did. You haven't been able to produce a single person, anywhere, capable
> > of recreating your syllables. Not one of your syllables. Each one of your
> > syllables has been a complete failure so far.
>
> Ferdinand de Saussure at age 16 proposed three words that are very close
> to mine, without my knowing;

This was the fanciful work of a kid.
This work was not integrated in the complete works of Saussure published in the 1920s.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

1. Cave art gives us no clue to how the people of Lascaux or Altamira
spoke.

2. The pictographic symbols in Göbekli Tepe give us no clue to how the

people of Göbekli Tepe spoke.

3, Anyone stating the opposite must make available some evidence that

can be scrutinized by other scholars, and the clues this person claims
to have found, must be observable and recognizable by other people.

4. Moreover, the discoverer must be able to explain, in commonsense

logical terms, how he or she has arrived at his results. His chain of
conclusions must be "nachvollzogen" by other scholars.

5. You have not been able to present us with either evidence or

conclusions. Instead, you have repeatedly attacked and poured scorn
over people who have demanded such things.

6. On the other hand, PIE is based on solid evidence and its proponents

have left us clear instructions, evidence, and reasonings to be
"nachvollzogen".

7. Their conclusions are based on a comprehensive understanding and

comparison of the languages involved.

8. On the other hand, you are demonstrably ignorant of several branches

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

1. Cave art gives us no clue to how the people of Lascaux or Altamira
spoke.

2. The pictographic symbols in Göbekli Tepe give us no clue to how the

people of Göbekli Tepe spoke.

3, Anyone stating the opposite must make available some evidence that

can be scrutinized by other scholars, and the clues this person claims
to have found, must be observable and recognizable by other people.

4. Moreover, the discoverer must be able to explain, in commonsense

logical terms, how he or she has arrived at his results. His chain of
conclusions must be "nachvollzogen" by other scholars.

5. You have not been able to present us with either evidence or

conclusions. Instead, you have repeatedly attacked and poured scorn
over people who have demanded such things.

6. On the other hand, PIE is based on solid evidence and its proponents

have left us clear instructions, evidence, and reasonings to be
"nachvollzogen".

7. Their conclusions are based on a comprehensive understanding and

comparison of the languages involved.

8. On the other hand, you are demonstrably ignorant of several branches

[Peter T. Daniels]

How would he do that? What prediction do you make that could be falsified
by evidence and/or argument?

[Peter T. Daniels]

I have no "version." How would Antonio "go for a test case"? What

prediction do you make that could be falsified by evidence and/or

argumentation?

[Peter T. Daniels]

included

[António Marques]

Franz Gnaedinger <fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 2:42:05 PM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:
>>
>> I did. You haven't been able to produce a single person, anywhere, capable
>> of recreating your syllables. Not one of your syllables. Each one of your
>> syllables has been a complete failure so far.
>
> Ferdinand de Saussure at age 16 proposed three words that are very close
> to mine, without my knowing;

That's very interesting. Share it with us.

> Richard Fester even more that I knew and relied
> on.

How so, you knew?

> Go for a testcase of mine instead of dropping ever more meta-verdicts.

I'm going for it. I'm testing your words. I'm inquiring whether someone
else found them. Do you have another type of test in mind? Could you share
it with us?

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 10:57:42 PM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:
>
> I'm going for it. I'm testing your words. I'm inquiring whether someone
> else found them. Do you have another type of test in mind? Could you share
> it with us?

I posted the Saussure message in a recent thread, and will post it again
in a revised version in my Magdalenian publishing thread the höglhound is
wildly decided to ruin again. You never said a word against him. When he
called himself Der psychopathische Entdärmer (sic) in hounding me you found
it rather cute. You wanted me to make friends with him, while never never
saying a word about his behaving, which is why I dubbed you a hypochrist.
My first test case dates from August 2008, as I remember, bear as the
furry one vs the PIE bear as the brown one. Then followed many more tests,
most important my triple test case regarding the name of Zeus (allegedly
the only name in the Greek pantheon that poses no problem), the IE homeland
(set anywhere between the North and South Poles according to Mallory & Adams)
and words for the horse (IE animal par excellence.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

Historical sciences are not like astronomy or physics or chemistry, you
can't make a prediction, only a retrodiction. Maybe, once in the future,
such a retrodiction can be tested via a recent archaeological find, or by
a valid decipherment. As you deliberately and decidedly and proactively
refuse to lay even a glass eye on Derk Ohlenroth's book on the Phaistos
Disc, his decipherment can be a test case for you: the name of Zeus should
be something like *dyaeus on an older document than from the Homeric time
- Homer I of the Iliad from the time of the first Messenian war, Homer 2
of the Odyssey from the time of the second Messenian war -, Phaistos Disc
from around 1650 BC, instead it is farther way, so the PhD offers a test
case.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 2:23:35 AM UTC-4, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 10:57:42 PM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:
> >
> > I'm going for it. I'm testing your words. I'm inquiring whether someone
> > else found them. Do you have another type of test in mind? Could you share
> > it with us?
>
> I posted the Saussure message in a recent thread,

How does that answer Antonio's question of how to "test" "Magdalenian"?

[António Marques]

Franz Gnaedinger <fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 10:57:42 PM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:
>>
>> I'm going for it. I'm testing your words. I'm inquiring whether someone
>> else found them. Do you have another type of test in mind? Could you share
>> it with us?
>
> I posted the Saussure message in a recent thread, and will post it again
> in a revised version in my Magdalenian publishing thread

You will revise a message from Saussure?!
Ok, keep us posted. Didn't see it yet, maybe next time put Saussure in the
title or something, otherwise who has the patience to plod through your
endless repetitive repeated musings?

> the höglhound is
> wildly decided to ruin again. You never said a word against him. When he
> called himself Der psychopathische Entdärmer (sic) in hounding me you found
> it rather cute.

Eh?? It's the third or fourth time you make some outlandish claim about me.

> You wanted me to make friends with him, while never never
> saying a word about his behaving, which is why I dubbed you a hypochrist.

I wanted what?
The only thing I've ever said that remotely touched that subject - and it
was a question - was whether the two of you might be the same individual.

> My first test case dates from August 2008, as I remember, bear as the
> furry one vs the PIE bear as the brown one. Then followed many more tests,
> most important my triple test case regarding the name of Zeus (allegedly
> the only name in the Greek pantheon that poses no problem), the IE homeland
> (set anywhere between the North and South Poles according to Mallory & Adams)
> and words for the horse (IE animal par excellence.

HHH OOO WWW does one test your 'test cases'? What about them makes them
'test' cases?

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

learnt languages unknown to you.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

[Franz Gnaedinger]

A) Man is the measure of all things (Protagoras). My stalker of more than
thirteen years, Panu Petteri Höglund, takes it personally. What _he_ can't
understand, nobody can. If _he_ has no sensibility for reading visual language,
nobody does. And if _he_ has little knowledge of cave art, so does everybody
else.

He deliberately ignores what I say on my explanation of how the big limestone
ring on the Goebekli Tepe inspired the reading AAR RAA NOS for the sky god
of air AAR and light RAA with a mind NOS of his own - knowledge in many fields
made the spark fly.

He snubs my hermeneutic interpretations that prove the worth and usefulness
of my alternative approach to early language. I needed decades for my
elucidation of Homer's Odyssey. He just eclipsed it by saying he could write
such a piece within a quarter of an hour. Why, then, don't we ever get
anything like that from him? Only meta-statements, as his lines above,
expurgated version of an insult ridden message he posted to an inadequate
thread, but I saw it.

B) Magdalenian is a multi-dimensional approach. It requires not only broad

knowledge including archaeology and anthropology but also a sensibility
for visual language and the ability of recognizing symbols in cave art,

rock art, mobile art and early literature - you can't read the Odyssey
and the Bible in the way we read a modern history book.

C) Learning a few ancient languages is enough. You don't need to know
every IE language. On the contrary, the languages you don't know
serve as a test. In 2006 I proposed KOD for tent, hut, and found
plenty derivatives in the languages I know. Then I consulted a Sanskrit
dictionary and was pleased to find many more. This told me that
I reached a deep level of language evolution and development.

D) The ramifications of Magdalenian lead me on and on. I still see no end.
Sooner or later others will take over. The array of hermeneutic inter-
pretations already gained compensate largely for the troubles I got me in.

E) We have both art and writing. The people of the Stone Age had
only art as medium for conveying their knowledge, social rules, world
view and wisdom. Considering the many ideograms in caves like Chauvet
and Lascaux, art was their writing. ('Proto-writing' if you must have
a label which turns a clear notion into an ugly but really scientific term.
How would you like the Martians of a remote future calling us earthlings
of the Concrete Age 'Proto-humans' ? )

Visual language and word language were closely connected, so that
cave art and rock art and mobile art inspire Magdalenian, whereas
we can't learn Spanish from looking at Goya - art and language drifted
apart way too far.

Those unable of reading visual language and recognizing symbols would
better learn something than parading their ighnorance.

Yes, I mean Panu Petteri Höglund alias alias alias.

F) Leaving out the long story of his aggression, heavy attacks on me
right from the beginning. Just this much. He tried and tries everything
to obstruct my work and eliminate me. If only I vanished he could make
his paucity of textbook matter shine.

G) He imitates my way of coping with 'Allgod' but since he offers
nothing beyond prejudices on a meta-level he must go into overdrive,
while I, in my lesson on logic, posted only once per thread, fill a gaping
void of academe with insights from half a century, as always in a simple
language that makes a simpleton believe I were a simpleton.

H) Magdalenian, developed as a non-invasive tool of archaeology,
serves this purpose well, working as a guide on the semantic side
of the field. If my stalker doesn't wish to end as a joke he'd better
stop running behind me, yapping at my heels.

I) Even if he should succeed in ruining my threads, I already
accomplished an array of interpretations, among them Chauvet,
Lascaux, Altamira, Goebekli Tepe, Phaistos Disc (in the wake of
Derk Ohlenroth's decipherment), Odyssey and parts of the Bible.
They are kept in archives and prove the worth of my alternative
approach to early language.

J) My work fulfills the first criterion of a valid idea, approach,
hypothesis or theory, fertility.

K) All that's needed is another look at language: from a remote past
forward in time. It can be trained. Start from words I mined in
the spring of 2005 and mainly in the spring of 2006, and study how
I proceed. Every step of my experiment is documented in sci.lang.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

- Cave art gives us no clue to how the people of Lascaux or Altamira
spoke.

- The pictographic symbols in Göbekli Tepe give us no clue to how the

people of Göbekli Tepe spoke.

- Anyone stating the opposite must make available some evidence that

can be scrutinized by other scholars, and the clues this person claims
to have found, must be observable and recognizable by other people.

- Moreover, the discoverer must be able to explain, in commonsense

logical terms, how he or she has arrived at his results. His chain of
conclusions must be "nachvollzogen" by other scholars.

- You have not been able to present us with either evidence or

conclusions. Instead, you have repeatedly attacked and poured scorn
over people who have demanded such things.

- On the other hand, PIE is based on solid evidence and its proponents

have left us clear instructions, evidence, and reasonings to be
"nachvollzogen".

- Their conclusions are based on a comprehensive understanding and

comparison of the languages involved.

- On the other hand, you are demonstrably ignorant of several branches

of Indo-European. You have admitted that you know not a single Slavic
language.You actually pour scorn and disdain over people who have
learnt languages unknown to you.

- Thus, and therefore, we don't feel morally or intellectually
compelled to take Magdalenian seriously.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 3:17:32 PM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:
>
> Eh?? It's the third or fourth time you make some outlandish claim about me.
>

I just have a good memory, well trained because I need it for my work.
Also now you never comment on the behaving of Panu Petteri Höglund,
accepting all his ways. Just recently, a few days before he compiled
his meta-statements, he called me a criminal swine and wished a death
penatlty for me. Everything okay for you. And in another thread you
practically equate me with 'Allgod'. He claims to be God, whereas
I believe that God is beyond our ken and powers. Actually I consider
religion an extended phenotype, yet reaching so far down in biology
and the fabric of nature that we can't fathom it with our rational mind.

Unable of coping with me on the scientific level you try just anything
to cope with me on meta-levels and drop verditcs from above. Makes you
feel omnipotent (as many others in sci.lang) while you are the contrary
(a.m.o.i.s.l).

> I wanted what?
> The only thing I've ever said that remotely touched that subject - and it
> was a question - was whether the two of you might be the same individual.
>

Another case of a bad memory. You guys believe you can tell me just
anything and then not stand by your words. No, you never asked me if
I was him. God beware a thousaned times.

> HHH OOO WWW does one test your 'test cases'? What about them makes them
> 'test' cases?

Bad memory. I said it dozens and dozens of times. Provide arguments for
the PIE version and I provide arguments for the Magdalenian version.
Then we shall see whose arguments are better, simpler and with more
explaining power.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 3:17:32 PM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:
>
> > I posted the Saussure message in a recent thread, and will post it again
> > in a revised version in my Magdalenian publishing thread
>

Memory problem. I don't revise a message of de Saussure, but a message of mine
on de Saussure. Here it is, very slightly revised, for example the age of my
compatriot given as 14 years by Arnaud Fournet. And I still was not able to
find the book he mentioned.

Young Ferdinand de Saussure, aged sixteen years and eight months,
wrote a linguistic paper of forty-two pages (published by David H. Boyd
in 1978) wherein he proposed several 'ur-words' in the sense of Richard
Fester. Having seen but a small excerpt I can confirm three of them
in the light of Magdalenian

KAL tout ce qui est creux et resonne bien

Richard Fester proposed KALL with a wide range of meanings including German
Höhle 'cave' hohl 'hollow' Hall Schall 'sound'. Magdalenian has KAL for cave,
Underworld, accounting for many derivatives.

KAR la tête, la force, etc.

Magdalenian offers ARC for the cave bear, wherefrom Greek arktos 'bear;
the permutation CRA for power, strength (as of a bear) German Kraft;
and the permutation CAR for the head of a cave bear deposited in a cult cave,
as emblem of the cave (Marie E.P. König), for example in a chamber of the
Chauvet cave, with a derivative in Greek kar 'head'.

TAK l'art, l'industrie, etc.

Magdalenian has DhAG meaning able, good in the sense of able, the word of
the most and most varied derivatives, possibly of an onomatopoeic origin,
as it inspires the dry sound of stone hitting stone in the first industry
there was, the fabrication of stone tools.

Among the five ur-words Richard Fester proposed is TAG with another wide
range of meanings (in brackets my explanations), among them mountain
Turkish Daghi Dag, stone in Amerindian, think, teach, say (talk, Old Latin
dingua 'tongue, language'), sex (German zeugen 'beget'), Zeug in the sense
of woven cloth (Circe weaving her cloth in a cave is weaving the fabric of
time and life), Zeug in the sense of Werkzeug 'tool, device', to give orders
(and lead) duc (Latin ducere 'lead', Italien Duce French Duc English Duke),
God (Greek theos, Latin deus, Sumerian dingir, and the name of the supreme
Celtic god Dagda, according to Barry Cunliffe the good god in the sense of
the able god, German taugen for being able, emphatic DhAG DhAG able able),
and German Tag 'day' (in the sense of the day given to us by the able one,
God).

Young Ferdinand had been talked out of his experiment.

If I could find his paper (the book of Boyd) I shall check it for further
anticipations of Magdalenian.

---

PS for Peter The Dogmatician: some people can have more promising hunches
as a teenager than others in five lives. And some can't even have one single
promising thought, let alone a moment of apperception in their entire life.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

L) My stalker is not happy with my mercifully abbreviated report
of how he behaves. Once again he tries to destroy my Magdalenian
publishing thread. He wants a detailed account of his heroic struggle
against me. Well, he can have that.

Panu Petteri Höglund had once posted ugly messages to so.men,
attacking women. Then he joined sci.lang in early 2006, attacked me
out of the blue, and wrote in a stilted German that my head may burst
the sooner the better. Ever since he follows me around, using dozens
(plural) of aliases, many invented for the sole purpose of molesting me,
among them Der psychopathische Entdärmer (sic), The psychopathic
eviscerator. He wrote that he has plenty ideas of what he could do to me
with a knife, alas, the law still considers me a human being with rights.
And a few days before he compiled his meta-statements that make him
sort of high, he called me a criminal swine (sic) and wished a death
sentence for me (sick).

He aspires to govern sci.lang with nothing beyond a little textbook
half-knowledge. I am in his way with my ample knowledge in many fields,
with my wealth in original ideas, and my courage. He tried and tries
everything to get rid of me so he can shine with what little he has to
say about language.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 2:47:29 AM UTC-4, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 3:17:32 PM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:

> > Eh?? It's the third or fourth time you make some outlandish claim about me.
>
> I just have a good memory,

Obviously you don't.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

- Cave art gives us no clue to how the people of Lascaux or Altamira
spoke.

- The pictographic symbols in Göbekli Tepe give us no clue to how the

people of Göbekli Tepe spoke.

- Anyone stating the opposite must make available some evidence that

can be scrutinized by other scholars, and the clues this person claims
to have found, must be observable and recognizable by other people.

- Moreover, the discoverer must be able to explain, in commonsense

logical terms, how he or she has arrived at his results. His chain of
conclusions must be "nachvollzogen" by other scholars.

- You have not been able to present us with either evidence or

conclusions. Instead, you have repeatedly attacked and poured scorn
over people who have demanded such things.

- On the other hand, PIE is based on solid evidence and its proponents

have left us clear instructions, evidence, and reasonings to be
"nachvollzogen".

- Their conclusions are based on a comprehensive understanding and

comparison of the languages involved.

- On the other hand, you are demonstrably ignorant of several branches

of Indo-European. You have admitted that you know not a single Slavic
language.You actually pour scorn and disdain over people who have
learnt languages unknown to you.

[António Marques]

Franz Gnaedinger <fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 3:17:32 PM UTC+2, António Marques wrote:
>>
>> Eh?? It's the third or fourth time you make some outlandish claim about me.
>>
>
> I just have a good memory, well trained because I need it for my work.

I suppose it's fitting then that your good memory should trick you in this
case too.

> Also now you never comment on the behaving of Panu Petteri Höglund,

I'm not the Swiss police. Unless there is some matter of scientific fact
involved, I keep out.

> accepting all his ways. Just recently, a few days before he compiled
> his meta-statements, he called me a criminal swine and wished a death
> penatlty for me. Everything okay for you.
> And in another thread you
> practically equate me with 'Allgod'. He claims to be God, whereas
> I

Whereas you don't. That's what I pointed out in that thread. It was only
the other day and your good memory is already playing tricks.

First you were just a kook. Lately, you've come out as a slanderer.

> believe that God is beyond our ken and powers. Actually I consider
> religion an extended phenotype, yet reaching so far down in biology
> and the fabric of nature that we can't fathom it with our rational mind.
>
> Unable of coping with me on the scientific level you try just anything
> to cope with me on meta-levels and drop verditcs from above. Makes you
> feel omnipotent (as many others in sci.lang) while you are the contrary
> (a.m.o.i.s.l).
>
>> I wanted what?
>> The only thing I've ever said that remotely touched that subject - and it
>> was a question - was whether the two of you might be the same individual.
>>
>
> Another case of a bad memory. You guys believe you can tell me just
> anything and then not stand by your words.

This is one of the reasons you've been called a criminal as of late - you
say people did this and that, whereas they did no such things. That's
called libel.
Saying you have a good memory convinces no one. If people had said what you
say they did, you'd be able to provide a link to it.

> No, you never asked me if
> I was him. God beware a thousaned times.

When did I say I asked you that? I asked it, but not to you.

>> HHH OOO WWW does one test your 'test cases'? What about them makes them
>> 'test' cases?
>
> Bad memory. I said it dozens and dozens of times. Provide arguments for
> the PIE version and I provide arguments for the Magdalenian version.
> Then we shall see whose arguments are better, simpler and with more
> explaining power.

If that's 'going for' your 'test cases', then:

1. In everyone else's opinion but yours, your arguments aren't any
good (let alone better) and possess no explanative power at all (let alone
more).

2. You never address any criticism of your arguments, so by your definition
you're refusing to go for your own test cases.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 1:43:38 AM UTC+3, António Marques wrote:
>
>
> If that's 'going for' your 'test cases', then:
>
> 1. In everyone else's opinion but yours, your arguments aren't any
> good (let alone better) and possess no explanative power at all (let alone
> more).
>
> 2. You never address any criticism of your arguments, so by your definition
> you're refusing to go for your own test cases.

3. Nobody needs to provide arguments for the accepted explanation. The one with the novel theory and explanation needs to know the arguments for the accepted explanation, and refute them. This is how science works, and this is why whatever Franz is doing is not science.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

A riddle: the key lies in between dmux and fowz.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

I am very pleased that young Ferdinand de Saussure with TAK, and independently
from him Richard Fester with TAG of a wide semantic range, both anticipated
Magdalenian DhAG meaning able, good in the sense of able, the word of the
most and most varied derivatives, which I consider of anthropological
significance.

My advantage is that I can look on the work of thousands of brilliant PIE
and Nostratic scholars and archaeological marvels like Lascaux (unknown to
de Saussure) and Chauvet Cave and the Goebekli Tepe. If they were in my
position they'd achieve way more.

Brian Greene: "Therein lies the singular beauty of science. As we struggle
toward deeper understanding, we must give our creative imagination ample
room to explore. We must step outside conventional ideas and and established
fameworks."

Now for the unpleasant part of my post. Panu Petteri Höglund attacked me out of the blue. And he went on ever since with his attacks on me, personal attacks,
and false accusations. Antonio Marques asked me several times to make peace
with him. No, I don't have to make peace, he being the aggressor. I just
won't nothing to have to do with him, ab so lu te ly NO THING . I answer
criticism on the topic or scientific level, not on meta-levels. The endless
meta-babble is deadly boring. Antonio Marques promised to go for a test
case of mine, instead he drops false accusations. Always the same in psy.lang.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

- Cave art gives us no clue to how the people of Lascaux or Altamira
spoke.

- The pictographic symbols in Göbekli Tepe give us no clue to how the

people of Göbekli Tepe spoke.

- Anyone stating the opposite must make available some evidence that

can be scrutinized by other scholars, and the clues this person claims
to have found, must be observable and recognizable by other people.

- Moreover, the discoverer must be able to explain, in commonsense

logical terms, how he or she has arrived at his results. His chain of
conclusions must be "nachvollzogen" by other scholars.

- You have not been able to present us with either evidence or

conclusions. Instead, you have repeatedly attacked and poured scorn
over people who have demanded such things.

- On the other hand, PIE is based on solid evidence and its proponents

have left us clear instructions, evidence, and reasonings to be
"nachvollzogen".

- Their conclusions are based on a comprehensive understanding and

comparison of the languages involved.

- On the other hand, you are demonstrably ignorant of several branches

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

[Franz Gnaedinger]

> I am very pleased that young Ferdinand de Saussure with TAK, and independently
> from him Richard Fester with TAG of a wide semantic range, both anticipated
> Magdalenian DhAG meaning able, good in the sense of able, the word of the
> most and most varied derivatives, which I consider of anthropological
> significance.
>
> My advantage is that I can look on the work of thousands of brilliant PIE
> and Nostratic scholars and archaeological marvels like Lascaux (unknown to
> de Saussure) and Chauvet Cave and the Goebekli Tepe. If they were in my
> position they'd achieve way more.
>
> Brian Greene: "Therein lies the singular beauty of science. As we struggle
> toward deeper understanding, we must give our creative imagination ample
> room to explore. We must step outside conventional ideas and and established
> fameworks."
>
> Now for the unpleasant part of my post. Panu Petteri Höglund attacked me out of the blue. And he went on ever since with his attacks on me, personal attacks,
> and false accusations. Antonio Marques asked me several times to make peace
> with him. No, I don't have to make peace, he being the aggressor. I just
> won't nothing to have to do with him, ab so lu te ly NO THING . I answer
> criticism on the topic or scientific level, not on meta-levels. The endless
> meta-babble is deadly boring. Antonio Marques promised to go for a test
> case of mine, instead he drops false accusations. Always the same in psy.lang.

coming round full circle - first two Magdalenian words

Richard Fester proposed five ur-words, among them AC or ACQ in
reference to the many village names ending on -ac and-acq in the
Guyenne, indicating places with water.

AC for an expanse of land with water became my first Magdalenian word.
Inverse CA may then mean heaven, Old Latin caelum 'sky', combining
CA and LIC for light and luck, Italian lux lumen 'light', English light and
luck, telling us how much they loved light in those times of pitch black
moonless nights.

AC and CA deciphered a Goebekli Tepe hieroglyph, the lying H, two longer
horizontal bars representing the earth (lower bar) and sky (upper bar)
and the short vertical bar exchanges between them - prayers for rain and
the rising smoke of sacrificial fires imploring rain (symbolized by snakes
heading upward) and falling rain rewarding them (snakes heading
downward) filling river beds and irrigation channels (snakes undulating
horizontally).

AC CA as a deity personified the Goebekli Tepe as mythological place
where earth and sky are meeting, or where they had been separated
from each other in the beginning, accounting for the Indo-European
earth goddess akka (a stammered name according to Julius Pokorny,
a meaningful name in the light of Magdalenian), for Hebrew Hawwa
'mother of all life' English Eve, for the Egyptian earth god Aker,
for German Acker 'field', for the English field measure acre, and
inverse CA AC for the Greek earth goddess Gaia. AC CA is also
present in Latin aqua 'water' - once 'obtained' via ceremonial
exchanges between earth and sky.

Not very difficult if you got a sensiblity for visual language.

Brian Greene: "Therein lies the singular beauty of science. As we struggle
toward deeper understanding, we must give our creative imagination
ample room to explore. We must step outside conventional ideas and

established frameworks."

[Franz Gnaedinger]

I pity those who never experienced a moment of apperception. But my empathy
has limits. I have no patience for perpetual meta-statements and verdicts
dropped from above, and defend myself against personal attacks and false
accusations.

Not being the slanderer but the slanderee (if this word does not exist
I claim a copyright) I have a right of defending myelf. I know exactly
what I say, and always in such a way that I could stand my case in court.
My first longtime online stalker (Marie) Jean Faucounau alias grapheus
(alias RoseMarie) engaged a lawyer who dragged me before the justice of
the peace and tried to shock-freeze me with the menace of an exorbitant
fine. They failed completely. Faucounau/grapheus performed a St. Vitus
dance for several months in sci.archaeology and sci.lang. I know the
facts and know how to render them.

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]

[Mścisław Wojna-Bojewski]