Bob Dylan, Tempest

[Franz Gnaedinger]

While the new Dylan album, Tempest, is very audible,
I found the violence disturbing. Is it own to the age of
the bard, or a sign of the times? The watchman dreaming
the Titanic is sinking and trying to tell someone may be
Dylan himself, fearing the western civilization might sink.
What about the most violent song, pay in blood, oddly
delivered along a very pleasing melody? Can it be
that Dylan speaks in the name of Israel, addressing
both ancient and present-day Egypt?

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

An old man such as you should have more refined musical tastes by now.
You should listen to classical music instead, such as operas. And this
is a linguistic discussion forum, not a forum for discussing your
musical tastes, vulgar and poor as they are. You will find that we do
not take interest in the new abominations by some counterculture has-
been from the sixties, as we have more refined tastes. I for one was
brought up to love opera by my late mother, who was not particularly
snobbish.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Oct 29, 3:21 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> While the new Dylan album, Tempest, is very audible,

Whether it's audible is not a property of the album. It is a property
of your hearing ability, and of the volume setting on your music-
playing device.

> I found the violence disturbing. Is it own to the age of
> the bard, or a sign of the times?

The news report I heard about the album said that it mostly contains
ballads. Gloominess has been a hallmark of ballads for about as long
as there have been ballads.

> The watchman dreaming
> the Titanic is sinking and trying to tell someone may be
> Dylan himself, fearing the western civilization might sink.
> What about the most violent song, pay in blood, oddly
> delivered along a very pleasing melody? Can it be
> that Dylan speaks in the name of Israel, addressing
> both ancient and present-day Egypt?

Unlikely.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Oct 29, 4:47 am, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army

<craoibhi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 29, 9:21 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> > While the new Dylan album, Tempest, is very audible,
> > I found the violence disturbing. Is it own to the age of
> > the bard, or a sign of the times? The watchman dreaming
> > the Titanic is sinking and trying to tell someone may be
> > Dylan himself, fearing the western civilization might sink.
> > What about the most violent song, pay in blood, oddly
> > delivered along a very pleasing melody? Can it be
> > that Dylan speaks in the name of Israel, addressing
> > both ancient and present-day Egypt?
>
> An old man such as you should have more refined musical tastes by now.

Dylan is one of the most respected singer-songwriters in the US, if
not the world.

> You should listen to classical music instead, such as operas. And this
> is a linguistic discussion forum, not a forum for discussing your
> musical tastes, vulgar and poor as they are. You will find that we do
> not take interest in the new abominations by some counterculture has-
> been from the sixties, as we have more refined tastes. I for one was
> brought up to love opera by my late mother, who was not particularly
> snobbish.

Can you name any major Swiss opera companies?

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

On Oct 29, 3:17 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Oct 29, 4:47 am, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army
>
> <craoibhi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 29, 9:21 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> > > While the new Dylan album, Tempest, is very audible,
> > > I found the violence disturbing. Is it own to the age of
> > > the bard, or a sign of the times? The watchman dreaming
> > > the Titanic is sinking and trying to tell someone may be
> > > Dylan himself, fearing the western civilization might sink.
> > > What about the most violent song, pay in blood, oddly
> > > delivered along a very pleasing melody? Can it be
> > > that Dylan speaks in the name of Israel, addressing
> > > both ancient and present-day Egypt?
>
> > An old man such as you should have more refined musical tastes by now.
>
> Dylan is one of the most respected singer-songwriters in the US, if
> not the world.

It might be true that he is a master of his own vulgar genre. However,
this does not make the genre any less vulgar or any more appropriate
for a man of Gnaedinger's age. Of course I took a fleeting interest in
this and similar genres myself when I was about fifteen years old.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Oct 29, 10:49 am, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow

> this and similar genres myself when I was about fifteen years old.-

I suspect you are not familiar with the genre.

It's not impossible that a higher proportion of the output in that
genre will be appreciated in future generations than is the case for
opera. Do you know how many operas -- from the 17th through the 21st
centuries -- have had exactly one production, and then rightfully
disappeared forever?

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Oct 29, 2:16 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Oct 29, 3:21 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> > While the new Dylan album, Tempest, is very audible,
>
> Whether it's audible is not a property of the album. It is a property
> of your hearing ability, and of the volume setting on your music-
> playing device.

I got the word audible from an online critic.

> > I found the violence disturbing. Is it own to the age of
> > the bard, or a sign of the times?
>
> The news report I heard about the album said that it mostly contains
> ballads. Gloominess has been a hallmark of ballads for about as long
> as there have been ballads.

Gloomy and violent are not the same.

> > The watchman dreaming
> > the Titanic is sinking and trying to tell someone may be
> > Dylan himself, fearing the western civilization might sink.
> > What about the most violent song, pay in blood, oddly
> > delivered along a very pleasing melody? Can it be
> > that Dylan speaks in the name of Israel, addressing
> > both ancient and present-day Egypt?
>
> Unlikely.

Any album now could be the last, so don't you think
Dylan uses the chance for a political statement?
for a comment on the world? Edward de Vere alias
William Shakespeare did so with The Tempest,
where he declares the role of the artist to the king
(as explained in my interpretation from the summer
of 2010). Dylan sees himself as watchman. He tries
to tell about what he dreams, or sees, or fears.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

> Any album now could be the last, so don't you think
> Dylan uses the chance for a political statement?
> for a comment on the world? Edward de Vere alias
> William Shakespeare did so with The Tempest,
> where he declares the role of the artist to the king
> (as explained in my interpretation from the summer
> of 2010). Dylan sees himself as watchman. He tries
> to tell about what he dreams, or sees, or fears.

For months we have been exposed to a reductionist
model of language rooted in the mechanistic era.
Dylan restores its full range. The same for Edward
de Vere alias William Shakespeare. Nobody to
handcuff his language.

Below I quote my interpretation of The Tempest
from the spring of 2010. Prospero, in my opinion,
stands for the artist, Edward de Vere, also Leonardo
da Vinci; Miranda for his admirable work, and for art
as the human measure in a technical world; Ferdinand
for the political power, their marriage being the best form
of civilization, power considering art. Queen Elizabeth
had died, and was bemoaned as Imogen in the play
Cymbeline from 1603. In 1604, Edward de Vere writes
a new play, The Tempest, recommending his work
to the freshly inthroned king. There are some parallels
in Tempest by Dylan. The play begins with the loud call
BOATSWAIN ! - who turns out to be a comical figure,
he fell in a deep sleep and hears all the noises of
the shipwreck in a dream. In the title song Tempest
the watchman dreams the Titanic is sinking, and tries
to tell someone .... Prospero pays homage to Leonardo
da Vinci, while Dylan refers to Leo who likes to draw,
Leonardo di Caprio in the film Titanic. Edward de Vere
recommends his art to the king, while Dylan as dreaming
watchman tries to warn the elite via his art - as a young man
in A Hard Rain, now in Tempest. Also Western civilization
could come to an end, sink into the deep blue. And of
course by doing so he recommends his art, the role
of the artist as watchful eye on human society.

The Tempest 1604

Prospero in The Tempest symbolizes cultural progress
that makes the world prosper, art and science, the poet
and playwright again; Prospero being from Milan perhaps
an allusion to Leonardo da Vinci who spent many years
at the court of the Sforza in Milan); Miranda his admirable
work; Ferdinand political power (King James; also
a reference to the Sforza of Milan, Italian sforzo meaning
effort, and forza power) that shall make good and not
overhasty use of the “rich gift” (Act 4 Scene 1); Ferdinand
playing at chess with Miranda indicating an always
complicated relation between political power on the
one side, art and science on the other side; the island
seems to be far away, in the West Indies, but is very
close, the stage of the Globe, the cell of the poet and
the workshop of a painter or a scientist, even the
memory of language; the hag reminding of the goddess
of old, for example Circe in Homer’s Odyssee; Caliban
being a chthonic god, also the animal nature of ourselves,
and a simpler life of early times; Ariel the spirit, Latin
spiritus Greek pneuma Hebrew ru-ach, the eternal spirit
who serves the poet in the guise of Prospero for a while
and is released when all is brought back to a good order
so the land may prosper and its dwellers forgive the
shortcomings and flaws of the poet and playwright

Let your indulgence set me free.

The beauty of Miranda is the dazzling, enchanting beauty
of the language of this play. Act 4 Scene 1, Iris calling out
for Ceres, Roman version of Greek Demeter, emanation
of the goddess of old, the hag of the play restored to her
ancient glory

Ceres, most bounteous lady, thy rich leas
Of wheat, rye, barley, vetches, oats, and peas,
Thy turfy mountains, where live nibbling sheep,
And flat meads thatch’d with stover them to keep,
Thy banks with pioned and twilled brims,
Which spongy April at thy best betrims,
To make old nymphs chaste crowns, and thy broom groves
Whose shadow the dismissed bachelor loves,
Being lass-lorn; thy pole-clipt vineyard;
And thy sea-marge, sterile and rocky-hard,
Where thou thyself dost air;--the queen o’the sky,
Whose watery arch and messenger am I,
Bids thee leave these, and with her sovereign grace,
Here on this grass-plot, in this very place,
To come and sport:--her peacocks fly amain;
Approach, rich Ceres, her to entertain.

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

On Oct 29, 7:13 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Oct 29, 10:49 am, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Army <craoibhi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 29, 3:17 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 29, 4:47 am, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army
>
> > > <craoibhi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Oct 29, 9:21 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> > > > > While the new Dylan album, Tempest, is very audible,
> > > > > I found the violence disturbing. Is it own to the age of
> > > > > the bard, or a sign of the times? The watchman dreaming
> > > > > the Titanic is sinking and trying to tell someone may be
> > > > > Dylan himself, fearing the western civilization might sink.
> > > > > What about the most violent song, pay in blood, oddly
> > > > > delivered along a very pleasing melody? Can it be
> > > > > that Dylan speaks in the name of Israel, addressing
> > > > > both ancient and present-day Egypt?
>
> > > > An old man such as you should have more refined musical tastes by now.
>
> > > Dylan is one of the most respected singer-songwriters in the US, if
> > > not the world.
>
> > It might be true that he is a master of his own vulgar genre. However,
> > this does not make the genre any less vulgar or any more appropriate
> > for a man of Gnaedinger's age. Of course I took a fleeting interest in
> > this and similar genres myself when I was about fifteen years old.-
>
> I suspect you are not familiar with the genre.

Familiar enough to know that it is above all a vulgar genre aimed at
young people with little sophistication in cultural tastes. The fact
that a culturally retarded older person lacking in education and
tastes such as Franz sees this vulgar genre as culturally so
significant proves my point. Of course, you are a learned and
sophisticated individual, but I understand that you take a
sentimental, nostalgic liking in the genre. Besides, as you are an
American, you perceive it as your ethnic culture, and we all like even
the most unsophisticated products of our own ethnic cultures. I assure
you much of the songs, books, and stories in Finnish and Swedish,
which I like for similar sentimental reasons, aren't worth
translating.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Oct 31, 5:26 pm, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army

it is in the context of ballads and folk music. I don't know about the
soungs in the "Tempest", Bob Dylan's genre may have changed with his
political views (he praised Meir Kahahne).

[Franz Gnaedinger]

The dreaming angel on the cover may then be Dylan's
Miranda, symbol or personification of his art.

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

This thread has nothing to do with linguistics. Followups added.

[Arnaud F.]

***

Who told you it's a ** thread ** in the first place?

A.

[Franz Gnaedinger]

> The dreaming angel on the cover may then be Dylan's
> Miranda, symbol or personification of his art.

I see human language as a triangle the corners
of which are life and art and mathematics.

Language serves life. It is the means of getting help,
support and understanding from those we depend upon
in one way or another - and every means of getting
help, support and understanding may be called language,
on whatever level of life it occurs ... Language, in my
opinion, is a basic feature of life, and may be regarded
as the intelligence of life: together, coordinated by
language, we achieve more than all on our own.

Mathematics based on the formula a = a is the logic
of building and maintaining.

Art is the human measure in a technical world, based
on the wider logic named by Goethe: all is equal,
all unequal ...

(I worked on the three aspects in 1974/75, listening
to a lot of Bob Dylan. Now I realize that they belong
together. I thank the bard for having guided my work.)

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

On Nov 4, 10:15 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> > The dreaming angel on the cover may then be Dylan's
> > Miranda, symbol or personification of his art.
>
> I see human language as a triangle the corners
> of which are life and art and mathematics.
>
> Language serves life. It is the means of getting help,
> support and understanding from those we depend upon
> in one way or another - and every means of getting
> help, support and understanding may be called language,
> on whatever level of life it occurs ...

You have made this speech hundreds of times. In the same time, my
lordship has published two books in Irish and learned several new
languages. You have not published or learned anything. Isn't it about
time to move on?

[Franz Gnaedinger]

> I see human language as a triangle the corners
> of which are life and art and mathematics.
>
> Language serves life. It is the means of getting help,
> support and understanding from those we depend upon
> in one way or another - and every means of getting
> help, support and understanding may be called language,
> on whatever level of life it occurs ... Language, in my
> opinion, is a basic feature of life, and may be regarded
> as the intelligence of life: together, coordinated by
> language, we achieve more than all on our own.
>
> Mathematics based on the formula  a = a  is the logic
> of building and maintaining.
>
> Art is the human measure in a technical world, based
> on the wider logic named by Goethe: all is equal,
> all unequal ...
>
> (I worked on the three aspects in 1974/75, listening
> to a lot of Bob Dylan. Now I realize that they belong
> together. I thank the bard for having guided my work.)

Why did it take so long to combine the three aspects
I developed simultanously in the seminal year 1974/75 ?
I explored each of them, for almost forty years, finding
plenty confirmation, and now they came together on
their own, satisfying my criterium of being simple yet
complex, a quality I also find in Dylan. The above
triangular definition of language may be seen as both
start and sum of my work. I shall begin a new series
of messages, further exploring the formula of the
equal unequal, probably in my Magdalenian thread.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Nov 6, 2:26 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> > I see human language as a triangle the corners
> > of which are life and art and mathematics.
>
> > Language serves life. It is the means of getting help,
> > support and understanding from those we depend upon
> > in one way or another - and every means of getting
> > help, support and understanding may be called language,
> > on whatever level of life it occurs ... Language, in my
> > opinion, is a basic feature of life, and may be regarded
> > as the intelligence of life: together, coordinated by
> > language, we achieve more than all on our own.
>
> > Mathematics based on the formula  a = a  is the logic
> > of building and maintaining.
>
> > Art is the human measure in a technical world, based
> > on the wider logic named by Goethe: all is equal,
> > all unequal ...
>
> > (I worked on the three aspects in 1974/75, listening
> > to a lot of Bob Dylan. Now I realize that they belong
> > together. I thank the bard for having guided my work.)
>
> Why did it take so long to combine the three aspects
> I developed simultanously in the seminal year 1974/75 ?
> I explored each of them, for almost forty years, finding
> plenty confirmation, and now they came together on
> their own, satisfying my criterium of being simple yet

criterion

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

On Nov 6, 9:26 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> . I shall begin a new series
> of messages, further exploring the formula of the
> equal unequal, probably in my Magdalenian thread.

Don't bother. Our barren minds won't get it anyway. Find a better
venue where you will be duly appreciated.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2012-11-06 15:30:47 +0100, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz

He's not writing for us. He's writing for the keen young linguists of
the future who will chance upon his publication thread and realize that
an unrecognized genius has been walking this earth.

However, on another matter, LanguageHat today reports the following
Irish verb: "sclogtha, a., unable to gasp. T�im sclogtha leis an dtart,
I am unable to gasp from thirst." Is this something you've ever needed
to say in your exploration of Irish? (Mind you, some of the spelling
doesn't look very Irish to my eyes, most notably "dtart", but I copied
and pasted, without retyping)

I could of course start a new thread for this, but it seems better to
clutter up Franz's rambling reflections with stuff he will think
irrelevant.


--
athel

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

On Nov 6, 6:48 pm, Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 2012-11-06 15:30:47 +0100, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz

> Shadow Army <craoibhi...@gmail.com> said:
>
> > On Nov 6, 9:26 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> >> . I shall begin a new series
> >> of messages, further exploring the formula of the
> >> equal unequal, probably in my Magdalenian thread.
>
> > Don't bother. Our barren minds won't get it anyway. Find a better
> > venue where you will be duly appreciated.
>
> He's not writing for us. He's writing for the keen young linguists of
> the future who will chance upon his publication thread and realize that
> an unrecognized genius has been walking this earth.
>
> However, on another matter, LanguageHat today reports the following

> Irish verb: "sclogtha, a., unable to gasp. Táim sclogtha leis an dtart,

> I am unable to gasp from thirst." Is this something you've ever needed
> to say in your exploration of Irish? (Mind you, some of the spelling
> doesn't look very Irish to my eyes, most notably "dtart", but I copied
> and pasted, without retyping)
>
> I could of course start a new thread for this, but it seems better to
> clutter up Franz's rambling reflections with stuff he will think
> irrelevant.

Well, I would prefer "stiúgtha" from the verb "stiúg!/stiúgadh" = to
expire, to perish. The lenition in "dtart" (t -> d, written dt) is
dialectal, because t is lenited only in Munster Irish. I would say
"Táim stiúgtha leis an tart". Or: "Tá mo theanga bheag amuigh leis an
tart", which is "My uvula is out with thirst". Sclog!/sclogadh means
"to gasp, to choke", and the form "sclogtha" is the perfect
participle. It thus means rather "gasped" or "choked" than "unable to
gasp".

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Oct 31, 4:26 pm, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army

It's not the "young people" who presented Dylan with the Kennedy
Center Honor a few years ago, a distinction which recognizes the
highest achievement in the performing arts. There are just five
laureates each year, and usually one is chosen from each of the
categories of classical music, theater, film, dance, and popular
music.

> that a culturally retarded older person lacking in education and
> tastes such as Franz sees this vulgar genre as culturally so
> significant proves my point. Of course, you are a learned and
> sophisticated individual, but I understand that you take a
> sentimental, nostalgic liking in the genre. Besides, as you are an
> American, you perceive it as your ethnic culture, and we all like even
> the most unsophisticated products of our own ethnic cultures. I assure
> you much of the songs, books, and stories in Finnish and Swedish,
> which I like for similar sentimental reasons, aren't worth

> translating.-

(But Irish ones are?) (And _what_ was it you translated _into_ Irish?)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Oct 30, 2:15 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> On Oct 29, 2:16 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Oct 29, 3:21 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> > > While the new Dylan album, Tempest, is very audible,
>
> > Whether it's audible is not a property of the album. It is a property
> > of your hearing ability, and of the volume setting on your music-
> > playing device.
>
> I got the word audible from an online critic.

Perhaps the word was "listenable."

> > > I found the violence disturbing. Is it own to the age of
> > > the bard, or a sign of the times?
>
> > The news report I heard about the album said that it mostly contains
> > ballads. Gloominess has been a hallmark of ballads for about as long
> > as there have been ballads.
>
> Gloomy and violent are not the same.

Songs are not violent. They are a modulation of air in organized ways
that produce effects, via the ears, in the brain of the listener.

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

On Nov 7, 1:06 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Oct 31, 4:26 pm, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army

> . I assure
> > you much of the songs, books, and stories in Finnish and Swedish,
> > which I like for similar sentimental reasons, aren't worth
> > translating.-
>
> (But Irish ones are?) (And _what_ was it you translated _into_ Irish?)

You can rest assured that much of the Irish stories I like for
sentimental reasons would not survive translation. The works of Séamus
O Grianna and Pádhraic Og O Conaire are beautiful idiomatic Irish, but
they would not be very interesting in translation.

[pauljk]

"Athel Cornish-Bowden" <athe...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:afstal...@mid.individual.net...

> On 2012-11-06 15:30:47 +0100, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army
> <craoi...@gmail.com> said:
>
>> On Nov 6, 9:26 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>>> . I shall begin a new series
>>> of messages, further exploring the formula of the
>>> equal unequal, probably in my Magdalenian thread.
>>
>> Don't bother. Our barren minds won't get it anyway. Find a better
>> venue where you will be duly appreciated.
>
> He's not writing for us.

If he were genuinely writing for the youngsters who are to discover
him in the future he wouldn't keep bickering and arguing with
the current contributors, he would ignore everybody's criticism
and go on developing his theme without carping on about stalking
and so on and so on.

BTW, if I remember right, the "future" when he was supposed to
be "discovered" was 2011, or was it 2012? Perhaps this is due to
some kind of temporal oscillation we are going through right now.

pjk

[António Marques]

The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army <craoi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

That's the opposite of their being valued only on account of extrinsic
reasons.
--
Sent from one of my newsreaders

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Nov 7, 12:09 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I got the word audible from an online critic.
>
> Perhaps the word was "listenable."

I meant it in the sense of listenable, yes, but it was
audible. I googled for the quote, but only found my own
message, about a dozen times. Apparently I misread
something. Sorry for that.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Nov 6, 10:56 pm, "pauljk" <paul.kr...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" <athel...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

> news:afstal...@mid.individual.net...
> > On 2012-11-06 15:30:47 +0100, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army

> > <craoibhi...@gmail.com> said:
> >> On Nov 6, 9:26 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:

> >>> . I shall begin a new series
> >>> of messages, further exploring the formula of the
> >>> equal unequal, probably in my Magdalenian thread.
>
> >> Don't bother. Our barren minds won't get it anyway. Find a better
> >> venue where you will be duly appreciated.
>
> > He's not writing for us.
>
> If he were genuinely writing for the youngsters who are to discover
> him in the future he wouldn't keep bickering and arguing with
> the current contributors, he would ignore everybody's criticism
> and go on developing his theme without carping on about stalking
> and so on and so on.
>
> BTW, if I remember right, the "future" when he was supposed to
> be "discovered" was 2011, or was it 2012? Perhaps this is due to
> some kind of temporal oscillation we are going through right now.

Wasn't it 2005 until his astrologer changed her mind? Do Swiss
astrologers follow the supposed Mayan prediction? (Which isn'/t a
prediction, simply the moment when the cycle starts over at 0.)

[Peter T. Daniels]

Do you suppose that finding your own message about a dozen times was a
hint about something?

[Paul Madarasz]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 04:32:38 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote, perhaps among other things:

The few Mayan immigrants I know have already bought 2013 calendars.
--

"One thing happened after another, and before
we knew it, we were dead"
-- Michael O'Donoghue

[pauljk]

"Franz Gnaedinger" <fr...@bluemail.ch> wrote in message
news:e84272a9-1d70-4922...@k20g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...

Oh I see, you misvisibled it.

pjk

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Nov 7, 8:02 pm, Paul Madarasz <paul.madar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 04:32:38 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote, perhaps among other things:

It's amazing how much modern-day Mayans (Guatemalans, usually) look
like the ancient glyphs -- the flat foreheads and angly noses are
striking.

[pauljk]

"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1b2541dd-c6a7-409b...@x21g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...

> On Nov 6, 10:56 pm, "pauljk" <paul.kr...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" <athel...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:afstal...@mid.individual.net...
>> > On 2012-11-06 15:30:47 +0100, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army
>> > <craoibhi...@gmail.com> said:
>> >> On Nov 6, 9:26 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
>> >>> . I shall begin a new series
>> >>> of messages, further exploring the formula of the
>> >>> equal unequal, probably in my Magdalenian thread.
>>
>> >> Don't bother. Our barren minds won't get it anyway. Find a better
>> >> venue where you will be duly appreciated.
>>
>> > He's not writing for us.
>>
>> If he were genuinely writing for the youngsters who are to discover
>> him in the future he wouldn't keep bickering and arguing with
>> the current contributors, he would ignore everybody's criticism
>> and go on developing his theme without carping on about stalking
>> and so on and so on.
>>
>> BTW, if I remember right, the "future" when he was supposed to
>> be "discovered" was 2011, or was it 2012? Perhaps this is due to
>> some kind of temporal oscillation we are going through right now.
>
> Wasn't it 2005 until his astrologer changed her mind?

Hmm, that rings a bell, how time flies.
The last time (2-5 months ago) when I noticed him mentioning
the astrologer again, the year morphed into 2013.

> Do Swiss
> astrologers follow the supposed Mayan prediction? (Which isn'/t a
> prediction, simply the moment when the cycle starts over at 0.)

Yes, it's a similar kind of prediction as one of mine which says
"BEWARE, in 88 years the year will end in double zero".

pjk

P.S.
This is mindboggling:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2138449/The-end-nigh--Americans-think-world-end-year.html

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Nov 7, 4:56 am, "pauljk" <paul.kr...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" <athel...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

>
> news:afstal...@mid.individual.net...
>
> > On 2012-11-06 15:30:47 +0100, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army

> > <craoibhi...@gmail.com> said:
>
> >> On Nov 6, 9:26 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> >>> . I shall begin a new series
> >>> of messages, further exploring the formula of the
> >>> equal unequal, probably in my Magdalenian thread.
>
> >> Don't bother. Our barren minds won't get it anyway. Find a better
> >> venue where you will be duly appreciated.
>
> > He's not writing for us.
>
> If he were genuinely writing for the youngsters who are to discover
> him in the future he wouldn't keep bickering and arguing with
> the current contributors, he would ignore everybody's criticism
> and go on developing his theme without carping on about stalking
> and so on and so on.
>
> BTW, if I remember right, the "future" when he was supposed to
> be "discovered" was 2011, or was it 2012? Perhaps this is due to
> some kind of temporal oscillation we are going through right now.
>
> pjk
>
> > He's writing for the keen young linguists of the future who will chance upon his
> > publication thread and realize that an unrecognized genius has been walking this
> > earth.
>
> > However, on another matter, LanguageHat today reports the following Irish verb:

> > "sclogtha, a., unable to gasp. Táim sclogtha leis an dtart, I am unable to gasp from

[Franz Gnaedinger]

On Nov 7, 4:56 am, "pauljk" <paul.kr...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>

> If he were genuinely writing for the youngsters who are to discover
> him in the future he wouldn't keep bickering and arguing with
> the current contributors, he would ignore everybody's criticism
> and go on developing his theme without carping on about stalking
> and so on and so on.
>
> BTW, if I remember right, the "future" when he was supposed to
> be "discovered" was 2011, or was it 2012? Perhaps this is due to
> some kind of temporal oscillation we are going through right now.

Sorry for having sent off an empty message, my fingers
were too quick. Ideas can be developed in discussions,
and testing a new idea or hypothesis or theory in a sci.group
is about the hardest test. How many times did I tell the story
of my astrologer? Seems you want to read it again and again.
Well then, here goes.

In the late 1990s I went to my astrologer and asked her
whether anybody will ever be interested in my work?
She lit a candle, drew the curtains, had a long look
into her Fine Magic Crystal Ball (tradem.reg.), sighed,
and said I am a hopeless case. Nobody will be interested
in my work. Not until, perhaps, 2011 or '12 when a young
couple will stumble over it. I should write for them, not
bothering about what other people think or say ... I follow
her advice. Meanwhile the year 2012 is almost over.
Can it be that she was wrong? Note well, she said
'perhaps' in 2011 or '12. And then, astrologers are always
right, also and especially when they are wrong. The aim
of my astrologer was to encourage me, and that she
achieved. I gained confidence and my work gathered
momentum, carrying me on on its own.

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

You haven't told me your address. I'd like to send you a copy of my
new book.

[Arnaud F.]

Le jeudi 8 novembre 2012 11:44:49 UTC+1, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army a écrit :
> You haven't told me your address. I'd like to send you a copy of my
>
> new book.

Who are you talking to?

A.

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

Basically, Franz. He sees me as a barren, improductive mind, but in
all these years he has been preaching his gospel, I have produced two
books in Irish. I think it would be good for his sense of reality to
see one of my books.

[Paul Madarasz]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 20:18:53 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote, perhaps among other things:

This is true. I guess the ancients were into representational art.

[The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army]

On Nov 6, 11:07 pm, The General of the Faceless Anti-Franz Shadow Army

Sorry, I meant to say "eclipsed", not "lenited", and of course, that
it is eclipsed only in Munster Irish in this particular position, i.e.
after simple preposition + definite article. In other positions, such
as after plural definite article, t is regularly eclipsed: tír na
dtréanfhear "the country of the strong men", tiarna na dtailte "the
lord of the lands", fear na dteangacha "the man of the [many]
languages".