Re: Paleo-etymology and ancient cave-shelters

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Daud Deden

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Jun 24, 2019, 5:13:39 PM6/24/19
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On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 4:40:30 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Fikir@Mly(sounds Arb): think
> Fikiran@Mly: mind
>
> Also pronounced pikir.an
>
> (T/P)hi(n)kyr? ~ tinker/metalwork/mentalwork?

Tinker/fix/finagle/affix ~ attach-haft a stone\metal blade to a handle or spear\pike\pale\pole

Daud Deden

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Jun 24, 2019, 7:16:08 PM6/24/19
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apex? apical?

Anyone agree that the words above derive from the action of attaching a blade to a wooden stick, making a compound tool of 2 simple ones?

Daud Deden

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Jun 24, 2019, 7:25:15 PM6/24/19
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apical might relate to api@Mly: fire, apa@Mbuti: fire, ape@Ainu: fire, apo@Indic: fire; as the fire-drill tip, ember-timber-tinder-tletl@Azt:firedrill.

From Latin apex (“point, tip, summit”), from apō (“fasten, attach”).

Latin Wikipedia has an article on:
apex
Etymology
From Proto-Indo-European *h₂ep- (“to join, fit”). Cognate with Latin apō.

Pronunciation
(Classical) IPA(key): /ˈa.peks/, [ˈa.pɛks]
Noun
apex m (genitive apicis); third declension

summit
top
cap of a priest (flamen)[flametip-filament?? DD]; hat, helmet, crown
-
(cf topi, tophat, tipi, tip, cap)





Daud Deden

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Jun 24, 2019, 11:18:15 PM6/24/19
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Humans & fruit bats neuronally synchronize conversation

Humans, apes & fruit bats all synchronize their brains during social conversation. Why? Arboreal ancestors moved vertically & laterally through foliage leaving no chemical scent trail, sound exchange replaced scent exchange, thus leaving Hominins with no vomeronasal olfactory organ but very modified vocal anatomy and neuronal modifications and telecommunication & social-synchronization.

I have claimed that human language evolved due to living in groups in dome huts on the rainforest floor but the requisite precursor to language resulted from ancestral great ape arboreal habitat nesting individually which precluded scent trails from informing group members of social hierarchy.

Journal References:

Wujie Zhang, Michael M. Yartsev. Correlated Neural Activity across the Brains of Socially Interacting Bats. Cell, 2019; DOI: 10.1016/j.cell.2019.05.023

Daud Deden

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Jun 25, 2019, 8:39:01 PM6/25/19
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Plausible link between fertile female & fertile farmland:

http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2019/06/sowing.html?m=1

Daud Deden

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Jun 25, 2019, 8:42:26 PM6/25/19
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http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2019/06/live-fire.html?m=1

Links fire(2 sticks) to fertile woman/farmland

benl...@ihug.co.nz

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Jun 25, 2019, 9:59:33 PM6/25/19
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On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 12:39:01 PM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:
> Plausible link between fertile female & fertile farmland:
>
> http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2019/06/sowing.html?m=1

Not exactly a new discovery. Semen, seed, sow (and season) all from PIE *sē (*seH1).

benl...@ihug.co.nz

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Jun 25, 2019, 10:04:17 PM6/25/19
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On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 12:42:26 PM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:
> http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2019/06/live-fire.html?m=1
>
> Links fire(2 sticks) to fertile woman/farmland

Well, links it to sex anyway.
The Oceanic verb for making fire this way is *sika, which
in some Polynesian languages becomes a word for female genitals.

Daud Deden

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Jun 26, 2019, 3:46:21 AM6/26/19
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Sika ~ fric(t)ion, apparition(smokey)
Sex
Fire plow/trough/saw a non-spinning method of ember making

Afyre/apa

Se- ~ Ke.mt(Ancient Egypt) ~ K.Ham@Bantu: rich(black) farmland

Fuerte@Spn ~ fire, to burn dead to renew/fertilize land (vegetative Christ)

Daud Deden

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Jun 26, 2019, 7:01:44 PM6/26/19
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Senior, senator, (in)sert
Cereal

Yusuf B Gursey

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Jun 26, 2019, 7:57:23 PM6/26/19
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On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:01:44 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:

Are you in "Free association" therapy?

Daud Deden

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Jun 26, 2019, 10:07:39 PM6/26/19
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On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 9:59:33 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
All from *Xyua(mbuatlachyah)
Xyua siev.ings, seventh-shabbat, shower of, shovels of
Lluvia@Spn: shower
Lopa(r/t)@Croat: paddle/spatula/shovel

Daud Deden

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Jun 26, 2019, 10:11:52 PM6/26/19
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On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:57:23 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:01:44 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> Are you in "Free association" therapy?

Yusuf, can't you hear the patterns?

Semolina...cement...et ce.tera

Daud Deden

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Jun 26, 2019, 11:09:44 PM6/26/19
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Ce as counter, as 1 (cent, sen, single, ce@Azt: a/an/one, se@Mly: a/an/one) or 100 (centum/satem) PIE.

Yusuf B Gursey

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Jun 27, 2019, 2:08:05 PM6/27/19
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On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 10:11:52 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:57:23 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:01:44 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> >
> > Are you in "Free association" therapy?
>
> Yusuf, can't you hear the patterns?
>
> Semolina...cement...et ce.tera
>

That's what psychologists call "free association", it's not linguistics.

Humans are genetically programmed to find patterns even if they are false positives. Failure to discern the panther in bushes means ending up as cat food at a very early age. Mistaking the shadows in the bushes for a panther means having children.

benl...@ihug.co.nz

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Jun 27, 2019, 7:50:01 PM6/27/19
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Up to a point. You could put your Azt. together with PAN *-sa, and PIE *sem-
(which you get in "single") and you'd be on your way, Ruhlen-fashion, to
reconstructing a proto-world word for 'one'. Or one of them, anyway --
remember I pointed out a long time ago that there will be dozens. (Doesn't
Ruhlen think it was *tik? But then they all come form *xyua..., so what
the hell.)

But as for "cent" and "sen", lovely sounds, but...forget it. "Cent" is
from PIE *kmtóm 'hundred'. No part of it means 'one'. And for "sen",
I don't have a proto-form, but the Mandarin cognate is qián, which refers
to a coin, or money in general.

Daud Deden

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Jun 27, 2019, 11:30:54 PM6/27/19
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On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 2:08:05 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 10:11:52 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:57:23 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:01:44 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > >
> > > Are you in "Free association" therapy?
> >
> > Yusuf, can't you hear the patterns?
> >

No answer.

Let's try again, shall we?

Yusuf, can't you hear the patterns?

If you can't hear the patterns, you must dismiss them.

We do not dismiss sound patterns in Paleo-etymology, they are absolutely critical, as are multiple samples from long-distance dialects. We do however have the option to dismiss various Linguist opinions unversed in Paleo-etymology.

No real Psychologist would confuse the two, but a few amateur net-psychs have made claims about free association. Can't stop'em.

> Semolina...cement...et ce.tera
> >
>
> That's what psychologists call "free association", it's not linguistics.

It's also not free association.

> Humans are genetically programmed to find patterns even if they are false positives. Failure to discern the panther in bushes means ending up as cat food at a very early age. Mistaking the shadows in the bushes for a panther means having children.

And being killed by a bear.

Linguist's arguments waste precious time and are better served in Philosophy class.

Daud Deden

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Jun 27, 2019, 11:41:51 PM6/27/19
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On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 7:50:01 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 3:09:44 PM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 10:11:52 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:57:23 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:01:44 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Are you in "Free association" therapy?
> > >
> > > Yusuf, can't you hear the patterns?
> > >
> > > Semolina...cement...et ce.tera
> > >
> > > > > On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 9:59:33 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 12:39:01 PM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > Plausible link between fertile female & fertile farmland:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2019/06/sowing.html?m=1
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not exactly a new discovery. Semen, seed, sow (and season) all from PIE *sē (*seH1).
> > > > >
> > > > > Senior, senator, (in)sert
> > > > > Cereal
> >
> > Ce as counter, as 1 (cent, sen, single, ce@Azt: a/an/one, se@Mly: a/an/one) or 100 (centum/satem) PIE.
>
> Up to a point. You could put your Azt. together with PAN *-sa, and PIE *sem-
> (which you get in "single") and you'd be on your way, Ruhlen-fashion, to
> reconstructing a proto-world word for 'one'.

Which I am not doing, since that is irrelevant in Paleo-etymology, numbers being late constructs. Seeds are portable calculator digits without number.



Or one of them, anyway --
> remember I pointed out a long time ago that there will be dozens. (Doesn't
> Ruhlen think it was *tik? But then they all come form *xyua..., so what
> the hell.)

Sieve/shower/seeds

>
> But as for "cent" and "sen", lovely sounds, but...forget it. "Cent" is
> from PIE *kmtóm 'hundred'.

PIE has some funny numbers, dozens became 10's or so.

Se- ~ Ce ~ ke- ~ SUM, Xyuam(b).

No part of it means 'one'.

A sum is also a thing, one thing, isn't it?

And for "sen",
> I don't have a proto-form, but the Mandarin cognate is qián, which refers
> to a coin, or money in general.

Cashier@SriLanka, beads/\seeds = !hxaro, exchange...


Daud Deden

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Jun 27, 2019, 11:56:43 PM6/27/19
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benl...@ihug.co.nz

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Jun 28, 2019, 6:31:47 AM6/28/19
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On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 3:41:51 PM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 7:50:01 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 3:09:44 PM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 10:11:52 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:57:23 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:01:44 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you in "Free association" therapy?
> > > >
> > > > Yusuf, can't you hear the patterns?
> > > >
> > > > Semolina...cement...et ce.tera
> > > >
> > > > > > On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 9:59:33 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 12:39:01 PM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > > > > Plausible link between fertile female & fertile farmland:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2019/06/sowing.html?m=1
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not exactly a new discovery. Semen, seed, sow (and season) all from PIE *sē (*seH1).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Senior, senator, (in)sert
> > > > > > Cereal
> > >
> > > Ce as counter, as 1 (cent, sen, single, ce@Azt: a/an/one, se@Mly: a/an/one) or 100 (centum/satem) PIE.
> >
> > Up to a point. You could put your Azt. together with PAN *-sa, and PIE *sem-
> > (which you get in "single") and you'd be on your way, Ruhlen-fashion, to
> > reconstructing a proto-world word for 'one'.
>
> Which I am not doing, since that is irrelevant in Paleo-etymology, numbers being late constructs. Seeds are portable calculator digits without number.

So why would you need a word? And what is it exactly that you _are_ doing?

> Or one of them, anyway --
> > remember I pointed out a long time ago that there will be dozens. (Doesn't
> > Ruhlen think it was *tik? But then they all come form *xyua..., so what
> > the hell.)
>
> Sieve/shower/seeds
>
> >
> > But as for "cent" and "sen", lovely sounds, but...forget it. "Cent" is
> > from PIE *kmtóm 'hundred'.
>
> PIE has some funny numbers, dozens became 10's or so.

??

>
> Se- ~ Ce ~ ke- ~ SUM, Xyuam(b).
>
> No part of it means 'one'.
>
> A sum is also a thing, one thing, isn't it?

As is a child, a marshmallow, a doorknob...

>
> And for "sen",
> > I don't have a proto-form, but the Mandarin cognate is qián, which refers
> > to a coin, or money in general.
>
> Cashier@SriLanka, beads/\seeds = !hxaro, exchange...

I don't know if the above means you think that "sen"
is actually something else, or that it's still a "counter" or a word for
'one', or maybe all of those.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jun 28, 2019, 8:33:25 AM6/28/19
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And thus cannot belong to any PAN (or later) stage of development. There
are no ancient words for things that didn't exist in their societies.

Yusuf B Gursey

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Jun 28, 2019, 11:03:22 AM6/28/19
to
On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 11:30:54 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 2:08:05 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 10:11:52 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:57:23 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:01:44 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Are you in "Free association" therapy?
> > >
> > > Yusuf, can't you hear the patterns?
> > >
>
> No answer.
>
> Let's try again, shall we?
>
> Yusuf, can't you hear the patterns?
>
> If you can't hear the patterns, you must dismiss them.
>
> We do not dismiss sound patterns in Paleo-etymology, they are absolutely critical, as are multiple samples from long-distance dialects. We do however have the option to dismiss various Linguist opinions unversed in Paleo-etymology.
>
> No real Psychologist would confuse the two, but a few amateur net-psychs have made claims about free association. Can't stop'em.
>
> > Semolina...cement...et ce.tera
> > >
> >
> > That's what psychologists call "free association", it's not linguistics.
>
> It's also not free association.
>
> > Humans are genetically programmed to find patterns even if they are false positives. Failure to discern the panther in bushes means ending up as cat food at a very early age. Mistaking the shadows in the bushes for a panther means having children.
>
> And being killed by a bear.
>
> Linguist's arguments waste precious time and are better served in Philosophy class.
>

That's what happens when discussing with people who present claims without presenting a methodology as to how they arrived them.

Daud Deden

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Jun 28, 2019, 3:58:57 PM6/28/19
to
On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 11:03:22 AM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 11:30:54 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 2:08:05 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 10:11:52 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:57:23 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:01:44 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you in "Free association" therapy?
> > > >
> > > > Yusuf, can't you hear the patterns?
> > > >
> >
> > No answer.
> >
> > Let's try again, shall we?
> >
> > Yusuf, can't you hear the patterns?
> >
> > If you can't hear the patterns, you must dismiss them.
> >
> > We do not dismiss sound patterns in Paleo-etymology, they are absolutely critical, as are multiple samples from long-distance dialects. We do however have the option to dismiss various Linguist opinions unversed in Paleo-etymology.
> >
> > No real Psychologist would confuse the two, but a few amateur net-psychs have made claims about free association. Can't stop'em.
> >
> > > Semolina...cement...et ce.tera
> > > >
> > >
> > > That's what psychologists call "free association", it's not linguistics.
> >
> > It's also not free association.
> >
> > > Humans are genetically programmed to find patterns even if they are false positives. Failure to discern the panther in bushes means ending up as cat food at a very early age. Mistaking the shadows in the bushes for a panther means having children.
> >
> > And being killed by a bear.
> >
> > Linguist's arguments waste precious time and are better served in Philosophy class.
> >
>
> That's what happens when discussing with people who present claims without presenting a methodology as to how they arrived them.

Again, can't you hear the sound patterns?

Methodology is irrelevant if one has no data.

Daud Deden

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Jun 28, 2019, 4:07:26 PM6/28/19
to
I don't get your point.
Holed ostrich shell beads were exchanged in South Africa & China after 70ka, Chinese coins were similarly holed, on strings or abacus.

Daud Deden

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Jun 28, 2019, 4:14:41 PM6/28/19
to
On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 3:58:57 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 11:03:22 AM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 11:30:54 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 2:08:05 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 10:11:52 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:57:23 PM UTC-4, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 7:01:44 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you in "Free association" therapy?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yusuf, can't you hear the patterns?
> > > > >
> > >
> > > No answer.
> > >
> > > Let's try again, shall we?
> > >
> > > Yusuf, can't you hear the patterns?
> > >
> > > If you can't hear the patterns, you must dismiss them.
> > >
> > > We do not dismiss sound patterns in Paleo-etymology, they are absolutely critical, as are multiple samples from long-distance dialects. We do however have the option to dismiss various Linguist opinions unversed in Paleo-etymology.
> > >
> > > No real Psychologist would confuse the two, but a few amateur net-psychs have made claims about free association. Can't stop'em.
> > >
> > > > Semolina...cement...et ce.tera
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > That's what psychologists call "free association", it's not linguistics.
> > >
> > > It's also not free association.
> > >
> > > > Humans are genetically programmed to find patterns even if they are false positives. Failure to discern the panther in bushes means ending up as cat food at a very early age. Mistaking the shadows in the bushes for a panther means having children.
> > >
> > > And being killed by a bear.
> > >
> > > Linguist's arguments waste precious time and are better served in Philosophy class.

I meant specifically as applied to this Paleo-etymology thread. I have no criticism of Linguist's opinions, but within Paleo-etymology, their opinions are based on Neo-etymology, more distractive than constructive.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jun 28, 2019, 4:22:15 PM6/28/19
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You have no idea what the function of "holed beads" was. Most people use
such artifacts for adornment.

Chinese coins were not in existence in PAN times, and the PANfolk weren't
in China anyway. (They were in Taiwan, and Chinese wasn't.)

Also, I just noticed, you misused the term "cognate" up there.

Daud Deden

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Jun 28, 2019, 7:32:48 PM6/28/19
to
None of which were called Xyua(mbua)/!hXaro. Sum is a mass of sievables, such as poppy seeds, or wheat.

> >
> > And for "sen",
> > > I don't have a proto-form, but the Mandarin cognate is qián, which refers
> > > to a coin, or money in general.
> >
> > Cashier@SriLanka, beads/\seeds = !hxaro, exchange...
>
> I don't know if the above means you think that "sen"
> is actually something else, or that it's still a "counter" or a word for
> 'one', or maybe all of those.

Ostrich eggshell beads => coins of exchange, assurance.

Daud Deden

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Jun 28, 2019, 7:37:34 PM6/28/19
to
I don't know when PAN began. Taiwan was physically part of China before 20ka LGM, there were Aboriginals in Taiwan then.

Daud Deden

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Jun 28, 2019, 7:46:43 PM6/28/19
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On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 4:22:15 PM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 4:07:26 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 8:33:25 AM UTC-4, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 7:50:01 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 3:09:44 PM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> > > > But as for "cent" and "sen", lovely sounds, but...forget it. "Cent" is
> > > > from PIE *kmtóm 'hundred'. No part of it means 'one'. And for "sen",
> > > > I don't have a proto-form, but the Mandarin cognate is qián, which refers
> > > > to a coin, or money in general.
> > > And thus cannot belong to any PAN (or later) stage of development. There
> > > are no ancient words for things that didn't exist in their societies.
> >
> > I don't get your point.
> > Holed ostrich shell beads were exchanged in South Africa & China after 70ka, Chinese coins were similarly holed, on strings or abacus.
>
> You have no idea what the function of "holed beads" was.

Stop lying.

Most people use
> such artifacts for adornment.

Which resulted from displaying the beads.

Daud Deden

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Jun 28, 2019, 8:11:49 PM6/28/19
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Ross: "don't have a proto-form, but the Mandarin cognate is qián, which refers

benl...@ihug.co.nz

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Jun 28, 2019, 9:31:51 PM6/28/19
to
Guess I'll have to take your word for that.

>Sum is a mass of sievables, such as poppy seeds, or wheat.

Is that a statement about some language, or what?

> > >
> > > And for "sen",
> > > > I don't have a proto-form, but the Mandarin cognate is qián, which refers
> > > > to a coin, or money in general.
> > >
> > > Cashier@SriLanka, beads/\seeds = !hxaro, exchange...
> >
> > I don't know if the above means you think that "sen"
> > is actually something else, or that it's still a "counter" or a word for
> > 'one', or maybe all of those.
>
> Ostrich eggshell beads => coins of exchange, assurance.

Maybe so. Still doesn't clarify the preceding.

Daud Deden

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Jun 29, 2019, 12:18:22 AM6/29/19
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Xyuam refers to both UNit/(xy)U(a)M and to SWARM/XYUAM/SUM, depending on the item being referenced, proto-numeric.


> > > > A sum is also a thing, one thing, isn't it?
> > >
> > > As is a child, a marshmallow, a doorknob...
> >
> > None of which were called Xyua(mbua)/!hXaro.
>
> Guess I'll have to take your word for that.
>
> >Sum is a mass of sievables, such as poppy seeds, or wheat.
>
> Is that a statement about some language, or what?

Rain as droplet: grain, corn/xyuam
Rain in sum: storm/xyuam

Daud Deden

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Jun 29, 2019, 12:23:04 AM6/29/19
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On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 8:11:49 PM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Ross: "don't have a proto-form, but the Mandarin cognate is qián, which refers
> > > > > to a coin, or money in general".

Tian@Chn: celestial, ~ Zion, cyan
Qián@Chn: coin, cash exchange

Daud Deden

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Jun 29, 2019, 12:37:13 PM6/29/19
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Daud Deden

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Daud Deden

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Daud Deden

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Jul 3, 2019, 10:45:21 AM7/3/19
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On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 9:34:19 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> Gray seals speak: social & no scent trails
>
> http://www.sci-news.com/biology/gray-seals-human-speech-songs-07321.html


Humans, apes & fruit bats all synchronize their brains during social conversation. Why? Arboreal ancestors moved vertically & laterally through foliage leaving no chemical scent trail, sound exchange replaced scent exchange, thus leaving Hominins with no functional vomeronasal olfactory organ but very modified vocal anatomy and neuronal modifications and telecommunication & social-synchronization.

Journal References:

Wujie Zhang, Michael M. Yartsev. Correlated Neural Activity across the Brains of Socially Interacting Bats. Cell, 2019; DOI: 10.1016/j.cell.2019.05.023

Daud Deden

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Jul 3, 2019, 4:31:52 PM7/3/19
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Cañada@Spn: ravine, small canyon (c.anal, cane, canister, canata)


From Latin canna (“reed”), from Ancient Greek κάννα (kánna, “reed”), from Akkadian 𒄀 (qanû, “reed”), from Sumerian 𒄀𒈾 (gi.na).

Gyne/guineau/gina/guiné

English Wikipedia has articles on:
Canna

Wikispecies has information on:
Canna
Noun
Edit
canna (plural cannas)

Any member of the genus Canna of tropical plants with large leaves and often showy flowers.
2000, JG Ballard, Super-Cannes, Fourth Estate 2011, p. 7:
A palisade of Canary palms formed an honour guard along the verges, while beds of golden cannas flamed from the central reservation.
2007 January 18, Anne Raver, “Is It Spring? Winter? What’s a Flower to Think?”, in New York Times‎[1]:
Still, some of Mr. Cooper’s tender salvias are wintering over, and he plans to leave a few clumps of cannas in the ground next fall.
Etymology 2
Edit
Borrowed from Scots cannae.

Verb
Edit
canna

(Scotland, Jamaica) Contraction of can not; cannot.
1966 -- Star Trek: The Naked Time (wikiquote)
Scotty: I canna' change the laws of physics.
Translations
Edit
cannot — see cannot
Etymology 3
Edit
Borrowed from Italian canna.

Noun
Edit
canna (plural cannas)

(historical) A measure of length in Italy, varying from six to seven feet.
French
Edit
Pronunciation
Edit
Homophones: cannas, cannât
Verb
Edit
canna

third-person singular past historic of canner
Irish
Edit
Etymology
Edit
From Middle Irish cann, canna (“can, vessel”), borrowed from Old English canne.

Noun
Edit
canna m (genitive singular canna, nominative plural cannaí)

can
Declension
Edit
[show ▼]Declension of canna
Derived terms
Edit
(bheith, dul) ar na cannaí (“(to be, to get) ‘canned’, drunk”)
canna bainne (“can of milk; milk-can”)
canna bealaithe (“oiler”)
canna breosla (“jerrycan”)
canna cláir, canna adhmaid (“wooden pail”)
canna ola (“oil can”)
canna spraeála (“spray can”)
canna spréite (“watering can”)
canna stáin (“tin can”)
canna tae (“can of tea; billy-can”)
canna uisce (“water-can”)
rud a cur i gcanna, i gcannaí (“to can something”)
Mutation
Edit
Irish mutation
Radical Lenition Eclipsis
canna channa gcanna
Note: Some of these forms may be hypothetical. Not every possible mutated form of every word actually occurs.
References
Edit
"canna" in Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla, An Gúm, 1977, by Niall Ó Dónaill.
C. Marstrander, E. G. Quin et al., editors (1913–76), “cann”, in Dictionary of the Irish Language: Based Mainly on Old and Middle Irish Materials, Dublin: Royal Irish Academy, →ISBN
Entries containing “canna” in English-Irish Dictionary, An Gúm, 1959, by Tomás de Bhaldraithe.
Entries containing “canna” in New English-Irish Dictionary by Foras na Gaeilge.
Italian
Edit
Etymology
Edit
From Latin canna, from Ancient Greek κάννα (kánna, “reed”), from Akkadian 𒄀 (qanû, “reed”), from Sumerian 𒄀𒈾 (gi.na).

Pronunciation
Edit
IPA(key): /ˈkan.na/, [ˈkän̺n̺ä]
Rhymes: -anna
Hyphenation: càn‧na
Noun
Edit
canna f (plural canne)


Italian Wikipedia has articles on:
Canna
cane
barrel (of a gun)
canna cilidrica ― (please add an English translation of this usage example)
(fishing) rod
canna da pesca ― (please add an English translation of this usage example)
tube, pipe (on a pump organ or a trachea)
canne dell'organo ― (please add an English translation of this usage example)
chute
(slang) joint
Synonym: spinello
(historical) traditional unit of measure
Derived terms
Edit
canna da pesca (“fishing rod”)
canna fumaria (“flue, chimney”)
canna metrica (“measuring rod”)
cannone

Daud Deden

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Jul 3, 2019, 7:55:59 PM7/3/19
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Ch...@Egl.US: "shaps" leather leggings protecting legs from chaparral/chaparro@Spn: scrub oak, from tshapar@Basque
Chinks: shorter chaps

Daud Deden

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Jul 4, 2019, 8:40:09 AM7/4/19
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Por.que@Spn: for what, why
Ken.apa@Mly: to.what, why
Apa.kah@Indon: what (is/of/?)

Daud Deden

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Jul 4, 2019, 9:37:04 PM7/4/19
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Daud Deden

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Jul 6, 2019, 6:08:20 AM7/6/19
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Regarding Fernando Pooh island, now Bioko: was it the cradle of humankind?

A paradigm for the evolution of human features: Apes
trapped on barren volcanic islands
Allan G. Krill
Department of Geoscience
Norwegian University of Science and Technology (NTNU)
Trondheim, Norway
allan...@ntnu.no July 2019

Abstract:
The aquatic ape hypothesis for human evolution can account for all the traits that distinguish humans from
chimpanzees. This scientific paradigm has been considered impossible. It would require that human
ancestors maintained a semiaquatic lifestyle for millions of years, whereas hominin fossils indicate
relatively dry terrestrial environments. Here we propose a marine aquatic evolution that is speculative, but
compatible with all the fossil and genetic evidence. In this hypothesis, hominins evolved from
chimpanzee-like apes that became stranded on proto-Bioko — new volcanic islands with no terrestrial
foods available. The apes were forced to eat shellfish and seaweed. From wading in water on two legs to
obtain food, their bodies evolved to become bipedal. Naked skin, blubber, and protruding noses were also
aquatic adaptations. Brain-size increase resulted from marine fatty acid DHA. Some of these hominins
escaped to mainland Africa and their bipedal descendents are recorded at the famous fossil sites. The
volcanic islands grew and evolved into Bioko, and the hominins that remained there evolved into Homo
sapiens. They gave up their marine diet and semiaquatic habitat after food became available on the
evolving island. Then, during one of the low sea-level stands in the Pleistocene epoch, humans walked to
the mainland on the emergent Bioko land bridge.
Why did humans evolve to be so different from all other primates?
Genetic evidence shows that the last common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees lived
about 6 million years ago (Lewin and Foley 2004). It was presumably arboreal, eating
and sleeping mostly in trees, and no more human-like than modern apes. There are no
unequivocal fossils of this ancestor, and no scientific name ascribed to it. It may have
been Pan troglodytes, the chimpanzee.
A divergence resulted in two evolutionary branches: panins, that includes chimpanzees and
bonobos, and hominins, that includes humans and extinct fossil species. Humans acquired
many features that are unique among primates, such as two-legged running, large brain,
naked body, and fat cells beneath the skin that are capable of producing a thick layer of
blubber.

Daud Deden

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Jul 6, 2019, 2:32:36 PM7/6/19
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Basque & Old Hittite words for eagle, cf Trask Hawaiian & Greek words for eagle similar. All coincidentally?

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-Old-Hittite-and-Basque-words-for-eagle-so-similar

benl...@ihug.co.nz

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Jul 6, 2019, 5:20:09 PM7/6/19
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On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 6:32:36 AM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:
> Basque & Old Hittite words for eagle, cf Trask Hawaiian & Greek words for eagle similar. All coincidentally?
>
> https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-Old-Hittite-and-Basque-words-for-eagle-so-similar

I thought I explained long ago that the Hawaiian word was a missionary
loanword from Greek. There are no eagles in Hawaii, but there are in
the Bible.

Daud Deden

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Jul 6, 2019, 6:31:08 PM7/6/19
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That might be here:


Trask eagle
Posts Groups
Basque related to Caucasus languages?
arrano "eagle", PB *aRaNo [or *aRno?], [PPB *har[an]no], cf. Nostr. *Hur(n)- " eagle, bird", Hitt. haran-, etc. begi "eye", PB *begi, [PPB *bek-i], cf. Nostr.
3/21/98 by Miguel Carrasquer Vidal - 79 posts - 37 authors
Re: Paleo-etymology and ancient cave-shelters.
BTW if you got this from the list of 10 Ancient Greek/Hawaiian resemblances > in Trask's textbook, you should know that aeto 'eagle' is also a ...
9/19/17 by Yusuf B Gursey - 234 posts - 13 authors
Re: Paleo-etymology and ancient cave-shelters.
On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 6:32:36 AM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote: > Basque & Old Hittite words for eagle, cf Trask Hawaiian & Greek words for ...
5:20 PM by benl...@ihug.co.nz - 45 posts - 4 authors
Is Basque related to Nostratic?
Nostr. *Hark'- "bright" arrano "eagle", PB *aRaNo, [PPB *haran-no], cf. Nostr. *Hur (n)- "eagle, bird", Hitt. haran-, etc. begi "eye", PB *begi, [PPB *bek-i], ...
11/14/97 by Miguel Carrasquer Vidal - 1 posts - 1 authors

I recall that honey was same in Hawaiian & Greek.

benl...@ihug.co.nz

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Jul 6, 2019, 9:02:40 PM7/6/19
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And for the same reason.

Daud Deden

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Jul 7, 2019, 1:42:57 AM7/7/19
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So no coincidence.

Arnaud Fournet

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Jul 7, 2019, 4:45:01 AM7/7/19
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Le dimanche 7 juillet 2019 00:31:08 UTC+2, Daud Deden a écrit :
> On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 5:20:09 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 6:32:36 AM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > Basque & Old Hittite words for eagle, cf Trask Hawaiian & Greek words for eagle similar. All coincidentally?
> > >
> > > https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-Old-Hittite-and-Basque-words-for-eagle-so-similar
> >
> > I thought I explained long ago that the Hawaiian word was a missionary
> > loanword from Greek. There are no eagles in Hawaii, but there are in
> > the Bible.
>
> That might be here:
>
>
> Trask eagle
> Posts Groups
> Basque related to Caucasus languages?
> arrano "eagle", PB *aRaNo [or *aRno?], [PPB *har[an]no], cf. Nostr. *Hur(n)- " eagle, bird", Hitt. haran-,

Logically Basque arrano derives from (m/h)andh-an-o (with ndh > rr)
the closest thing I can think of is PIE *anHt- "duck"
assuming a generic meaning in Nostratic as "(rather big) bird".
In all cases, Basque has nothing to do with Hittite haran-
Besides, it's not even clear if Hittite is not borrowed from Akkadian.
Conclusion = a false match.

Daud Deden

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Jul 7, 2019, 6:20:58 AM7/7/19
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Thanks Arnaud. I will seek a few other eagle words too.

benl...@ihug.co.nz

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Jul 7, 2019, 7:13:27 AM7/7/19
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Indeed.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jul 7, 2019, 7:34:30 AM7/7/19
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On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 1:42:57 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 9:02:40 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 10:31:08 AM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:
> > > On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 5:20:09 PM UTC-4, benl...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 6:32:36 AM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:

> > > > > Basque & Old Hittite words for eagle, cf Trask Hawaiian & Greek words for eagle similar. All coincidentally?
> > > > > https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-Old-Hittite-and-Basque-words-for-eagle-so-similar
> > > > I thought I explained long ago that the Hawaiian word was a missionary
> > > > loanword from Greek. There are no eagles in Hawaii, but there
> > > > are iin the Bible.
> > > I recall that honey was same in Hawaiian & Greek.
> > And for the same reason.
>
> So no coincidence.

And no "paleo-etymology" in either case.

Daud Deden

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Jul 7, 2019, 8:11:37 AM7/7/19
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A premature ejaculation of sentiment by PTD.

The search has barely begun.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jul 7, 2019, 8:38:11 AM7/7/19
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If you're going to count borrowings as evidence for "paleo-etymology,"
you have even less business pretending to be doing linguistics.

Daud Deden

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Jul 7, 2019, 9:31:37 AM7/7/19
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In Paleo-etymology, we examine words (meaningful utterances) rather than "languages"; words evolve in dialect influenced by non-impermeable cultural boundaries resulting in occasional borrowed words, often modified into native form. This is the science of language that interests me. Not the never-ending claim of "coincidence".

I'll leave the pretense for those who need it.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jul 7, 2019, 9:46:07 AM7/7/19
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Borrowing has nothing to do with coincidence.

It also has nothing to do with age-old descent from a common source.

Daud Deden

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Jul 7, 2019, 9:48:01 AM7/7/19
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https://www.indifferentlanguages.com/words/eagle

Eagle/Aquila/ekara/ukhosi/burgut/ Mikiya/Ugo/nasir/kartal/dogsul/aeto.s

Daud Deden

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Jul 7, 2019, 10:33:25 AM7/7/19
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On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 9:48:01 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> https://www.indifferentlanguages.com/words/eagle
>
> Eagle/Aquila/ekara/ukhosi/.urgut/ .ikiya/Ugo/.asir/.artal/.ogsul/aeto.s

All of these share a similar sound pattern if the initial consonant is not pronounced. I removed the initial consonants above.

.aranno aeto sound similar too.

But I can't yet identify the meaning, or whether it is based on an eagle's scream. I see no link to xyuambuatlachya, except possibly ambuatla ~ taker(?), unlikely, as is link to legal & regal.

Daud Deden

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Jul 7, 2019, 10:34:46 AM7/7/19
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Correct.

Daud Deden

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Jul 7, 2019, 11:09:51 AM7/7/19
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Daud Deden

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Jul 7, 2019, 3:45:31 PM7/7/19
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Ambuatlachya
Ambil@Mly: take
Tlaca@Aztec: take(?)
Toca@Azt: touch
Talon, rap.tor/rep.tile(?)
Lact/Leche@Spn: milk, sustenance, food
Lack, tackle, tactile
Tik/digit/tine/dig
(Food) taker?

*eaghara(n/l)? Dunno.

benl...@ihug.co.nz

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Jul 7, 2019, 6:21:05 PM7/7/19
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On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 2:33:25 AM UTC+12, Daud Deden wrote:
> On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 9:48:01 AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
> > https://www.indifferentlanguages.com/words/eagle
> >
> > Eagle/Aquila/ekara/ukhosi/.urgut/ .ikiya/Ugo/.asir/.artal/.ogsul/aeto.s

I should point out that Maori ekara is another missionary word,
this time from English. Haast's Eagle, the last eagle in NZ, became
extinct several centuries ago. The Maori word for it was (conjecturally)
pouakai.

(What the compilers of this IDL site mean by listing "eagle" as the
word for eagle in Georgian, Lao, Javanese and Malay is anybody's guess.)

>
> All of these share a similar sound pattern if the initial consonant is not pronounced. I removed the initial consonants above.

"Similar" meaning "starts with a vowel, then a k/g, or otherwise a t or s..."

> .aranno aeto sound similar too.

Not much, except for the initial vowels which are your contribution.

Daud Deden

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Jul 7, 2019, 7:26:48 PM7/7/19