Op 4/08/2021 om 22:40 schreef Christian Weisgerber:
> On 2021-08-04, Arnaud Fournet <
fournet...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
>>> English ditransitive verbs allow either object to be promoted to
>>> subject in the passive:
>> That's a tendency also in French, but the construction is not the same:
>> sa famille lui a offert un livre => his family offered him a book
>> un livre lui a été offert => regular inherited passive (with être)
>> il s'est vu offrir un livre => neo-passive with the subject (with se voir)
> German has also developed such a passive where the dative object
> (recipient, beneficiary) is promoted to subject. It largely requires
> the additional presence of an accusative object. The auxiliary is
> one of several verbs with the sense 'to get, to receive', typically
> _bekommen_, but also _erhalten_ or _kriegen_; the choice of auxiliary
> is mostly a register question and indicates that the construction
> isn't fully grammaticalized yet.
>
> Ich sagte der Besatzung die Wahrheit.
> I told the crew<DAT> the truth<ACC>
>
> => Die Besatzung bekam (von mir) die Wahrheit gesagt.
> The crew got (by me) the truth told.
> 'The crew was told the truth (by me).'
Looks a bit like the Italian passive with "venire", but with a regular
direct object (DO) there, not with an IO like here.
In Dutch hardly done and doable, I just wrought a possible example
"De mensen kregen eindelijk de nodige hulp geleverd"
"People got finally provided the necessary help".
But it doesn't 'feel' like an alternative passive.
> The ninth edition of the Duden Grammar, 2016, was rewritten from
> scratch by a new generation of grammarians and includes the
> "bekommen-Passiv".
>
> (German can already passivize clauses without accusative object,
> and the resulting clauses don't have any subject at all:
> with dative object: "mir wird geholfen"
> with genitive object: "seiner wird gedacht"
> intransitive: "heute wird gearbeitet")
Frequent in Dutch, often with the "er" subject replacing particle:
Er wordt me hulp geboden. Mij wordt hulp geboden. ->
Help is being provided to me.
Er wordt van verteld. ->
There's being told of (it).
Er wordt vandaag gewerkt. Vandaag wordt (er) gewerkt. ->
Today they're working; or: Today is to be worked.
With a subject:
Er worden daar veel groenten gegeten. ->
There are many vegetables being eaten there.
... with a new tendency to turn the subject into a DO, in the presence
of "er":
Er wordt daar veel groenten gegeten. ->
There's much eating vegetables there.
Ungrammatical... yet (a DO with a passive).
--
guido wugi