from cave art symbols to words

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Franz Gnaedinger

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Dec 20, 2019, 3:45:38 AM12/20/19
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translating cave art symbols into words, four lessons - how can we hope
to not only receive but also decipher messages of an extra-terrestrian
civilization when we don't even understnad the legacy of our ancient
forebears from the Stone Age, the marvel of cave art?


***

You can only transform cave art into words when you know what
a coherent piece of that Stone Age legacy means.

Marie E.P. König identifies the bull of Lascaux as moon bull, the horse
as sun horse, the descending small black horses in the niche at the rear
end of the axial gallery as winter sun horse, the pair of opposing ibices
as midwinter emblem, hence the niche as midwinter symbol.

Having studied menhirs and then the Lascaux cave for years I found an
amazing lunisolar calendar encoded in two ideograms of the midwinter
niche (in early 2005), and this calendar turned the axial gallery with
the midwinter niche (König) and the rotunda (logical counterpart) into
the representation of a year.

The Lascaux horse is not a common horse but a mythological creature
of the sky. What could have been the word for sky?

Richard Fester compiled a map of the Guyenne and Lower Rhône Valley
with about two hundred dots for villages whose names end on -ac or -acq,
for example Rouffignac and Cognac. He proposed AC or ACQ as word for
water.

I adopted AC for an expanse of land with water, more generally for Earth.
Inverse CA may then have named the sky, Old Latin ca(elum) and English
he(aven).

Is there a word for the horse beginning on CA ? Yes, Spanish caballo
French cheval from Latin caballus (of unexplained etymology, says my
Latin dictionary. What can -ballo mean? Richard Fester compiled words
that vary BAL for heat and BEL for warm. So we have CA BAL meaning
sky CA hot BAL that became Latin caballus and survives in Spanish
caballo and French cheval. CA BAL would have named the red mare of
the early midsummer morning rising above the horizon of the ledge
in the glorious rotunda of Lascaux.

Inverse forms have related meanings (first law of Magdalenian). The inverse
of BAL for hot is then LAB for cold. CA LAB meaning sky CA cold LAB would
thus be the winter sun horse, evoking gallop, and German Klepper for an
old and tired horse - the descending line of horses in the midwinter niche.

What about the lovely pair of 'Chinese' horses (Prjewalski horses) in the
axial gallery, coming from the midwinter niche, heading for the midsummer
rotunda? Richard Fester mentions Basque BELLE 'warmth'. Hence we get
CA BEL meaning sky CA warm BEL for the spring sun horse. This was confirmed
one year later (in 2006) when I found the development ABelios AFelios
Helios, the Greek sun god with a quadriga of horses (probably in one of
the Proceedings of the Annual UCLA Indo-European Conference). We have
then CA.BEL ABelios AFelios Helios indicating an alternative longer name
for the spring sun horse, CA BEL IAS, the warm spring sun healing IAS
ailments of a long and harsh winter, the inverse of IAS being SAI for life.

***

By the side of the red mare of the early midsummer morning runs a proud
white bull symbolizing a full moon coinciding with the summer solstice
(our June 21), ideal start of an eight-year cycle in the lunisolar
calendar of Lascaux.

The summer sun horse would have been called CA BAL meaning sky CA
hot BAL, and the full moon CA LUN, sky CA of the full round form LUN,
Latin luna 'moon' and Greek selaenae 'moon'. The inverse form LUN CA
might perhaps account for Finnish lenkki 'ring, loop', and LUN for Latin
plenus 'full', LUN -len- also present in English plenty.

And then we have the calendar, from Latin Calendae naming the first day
of each month, when taxes were due. A month had originally been a lunar
period of time, a lunation or synodic month counted in the 30 29 30 mode.

Yes, we can find words for symbols in cave art - provided we know what they
mean.

CA LAB winter sun horse
CA BEL spring sun horse CA BEL IAS
CA BAL summer sun horse
CA LUN full moon

CA LAB meaning sky CA cold LAB
naming the winter sun horse,
accounting for gallop, and German Klepper
for an old and tired horse

CA BEL or CA BEL IAS
meaning sky CA warm BEL healing IAS,
naming the lovely spring sun horse,
the warm sun of spring healing
ailments of a long and harsh winter

CA BAL meaning sky CA hot BAL
naming the summer sun horse,
accounting for Latin caballus 'horse'
(etymology unexplained says my dictionary)

CA LUN meaning
sky CA of the full round form LUN,
naming the bull of the full moon

Hear them run

CA LAB CA LAB CA LAB CA LAB ...

CA BEL CA BEL CA BEL CA BEL ...

CA BAL CA BAL CA BAL CA BAL ...

CA LUN CA LUN CA LUN CA LUN ...

***

Another prominent animal in the Lascaux cave is the stag.

A big roaring stag appears in the axial gallery, near the rotunda, calling
out to the pair of approaching spring sun horses. He may symbolize the
astronomer and calendar shaman. Latin cervus French cerf 'stag' and the
Celtic god Cernunnos wearing stag antlers indicate CER for stag and shaman,
also hind and shamaness.

Megaceroi (giant stags) would have represented wandering arch shamans and
arch shamanesses holding together the Magdalenian Proto-society.

Five swimming stags crossing a river drawn in the nave symbolize (in my
opinion) shamans from all over the Guyenne meeting in the region of
Montignac on the occasion of the midsummer festival celebrated every eighth
year when a long calendar cycle was completed and a new one began.

Further stags can be seen before the red mare of the midsummer sun rising
above the horizon of the ledge and the white bull of a full moon by her
side. These have been Divine Stags guarding the exits from (and entrances
to) the Underworld passed by the sun horse and moon bull.

Their large antlers evoke trees. Oak trees branch in a similar way as
stag antlers, nearly at a right angle. So the oak tree may have been
the emblematic tree of the Divine Stag, patron of astronomer shamans.
Latin quercus 'oak tree' and Gaulish érkos 'oak forest' may indicate
CER KOS for the cosmic stag. His antlers may have been seen in in the
summer constellations we know as Sagittarius and Scorpio.

Sagittarius 'Archer' goes along with hunting signs, in the Lascaux cave
ideograms of astronomical observation.

Present-day astronomers are *hunting* planets. Within ten years the
satellite Kepler found some 2,500 planets, and the satellite Cheops
- a marvel of Swiss precision, launched on December 17, 2019 -
shall examine 300 specific planets, discern between gas and stone
planes, identify planets in the habitable zone, and in the best case
detect chemical markers of conditions that make life possible.

***

Now for a more demanding lesson involving several Magdalenian words
that can't be explained here.

Across the sky from the summer constellations of Sagittarius and Scorpio
- seen as antlers of the cosmic stag - is the winter constellation ORE EON
Orion, she on the beautiful ORE bank or shore EON of the heavenly CA
stream or lake LAK overformed by Galaxy 'Milky Way'. She was the Orion
Woman, her characteristic hourglass figure indicated by the arcs of the
horns and heads of the opposing ibices in the niche at the rear end of the
axial gallery, identified as midwinter emblem and niche by Marie E.P. König.

The alter ego of the Orion Woman was the Divine Hind of Altamira, a large
beautiful hind licking the horns of a small bison under her

http://www.seshat.ch/home/hind1.JPG

She called life into existence, also moon bulls, thus creating time,
lunations or synodic months, periods of 30 29 30 29 30 29 30 29 30 29 30 ...
days, represented by the compact and often rounded bulls painted on the
walls and ceilings of the Altamira cave.

Her name could have been CER -: I -: or CER LIL (pronounce the lip lick
-: by touching both lips with the tip of the tongue). Derivatives of
CER -: I -: are cow-eyed Hera, wife of Zeus, and NW Proto-Indo-European
*kerdeh- 'herd, series'. Derivatives of -: I -: alone are a call of Celtic
herdsmen surviving in the locally famous lyoba call of herdsmen in
the Swiss Canton of Fribourg; German Leben Liebe English love life;
Latin libido 'desire'; lip (licking the lips would once have been a sign
of desire, still indicates appetite); Ugaritic dd 'loved (by)', Phoenician
Dido 'Beloved One'; Ukrainian lyalka 'doll'; the female given name Lily
and the flower lily; German Laub 'foliage' and Laube 'arbor, bowery'
(some of the Altamira bulls have tails in the shape of fir twiglets,
indicating arbors made from fir branches in honor of the goddess);
and maybe also articles that call the subsequent nouns into existence.

The Divine Stag CER KOS and and his consort CER -: I -: would have been
a couple of Magdalenian mythology and cosmology.

***



Franz Gnaedinger

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Dec 20, 2019, 3:49:42 AM12/20/19
to
My stalker of nearly fourteen years made me change my posting style.
I develop ideas in several threads, from time to time starting a new
thread, seeing that some people, ever the same, must drag away the
discussion from a given topic. So I gather the relevant messages
and post them in a new thread. Plus a corrected version in my
Magdalenian publishing thread.

Hope the scatologist will stay away.

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 20, 2019, 5:03:39 AM12/20/19
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coucou ! coucou ! coucou !

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 20, 2019, 5:15:24 AM12/20/19
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Le vendredi 20 décembre 2019 09:45:38 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
> translating cave art symbols into words, four lessons - how can we hope
> to not only receive but also decipher messages of an extra-terrestrian
> civilization when we don't even understnad the legacy of our ancient
> forebears from the Stone Age, the marvel of cave art?
>
>
> ***
>
> You can only transform cave art into words when you know what
> a coherent piece of that Stone Age legacy means.
>
> Marie E.P. König identifies the bull of Lascaux as moon bull, the horse
> as sun horse, the descending small black horses in the niche at the rear
> end of the axial gallery as winter sun horse, the pair of opposing ibices
> as midwinter emblem, hence the niche as midwinter symbol.
>
> Having studied menhirs and then the Lascaux cave for years I found an
> amazing lunisolar calendar encoded in two ideograms of the midwinter
> niche (in early 2005), and this calendar turned the axial gallery with
> the midwinter niche (König) and the rotunda (logical counterpart) into
> the representation of a year.
>
> The Lascaux horse is not a common horse but a mythological creature
> of the sky.

The Lascaux horse is a European prehistoric horse, indeed not a common horse of Siberian origin.


>
> Richard Fester compiled a map of the Guyenne and Lower Rhône Valley
> with about two hundred dots for villages whose names end on -ac or -acq,
> for example Rouffignac and Cognac. He proposed AC or ACQ as word for
> water.

you dern idiot, -ac is a well-known Gallo-Roman suffix -iac-us, variant of -i-cus.
Who is that Richard Fester?? How can he be that ignorant and stupid?
Tagadak tagadak tagadak !

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Dec 20, 2019, 5:37:48 AM12/20/19
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On 2019-12-20 10:15:22 +0000, Arnaud Fournet said:

> Le vendredi 20 décembre 2019 09:45:38 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
>> translating cave art symbols into words, four lessons - how can we hope
>> to not only receive but also decipher messages of an extra-terrestrian
>> civilization when we don't even understnad the legacy of our ancient
>> forebears from the Stone Age, the marvel of cave art?
>>
>>
>> ***
>>
>> You can only transform cave art into words when you know what
>> a coherent piece of that Stone Age legacy means.
>>
>> Marie E.P. König identifies the bull of Lascaux as moon bull, the horse
>> as sun horse, the descending small black horses in the niche at the rear
>> end of the axial gallery as winter sun horse, the pair of opposing ibices
>> as midwinter emblem, hence the niche as midwinter symbol.
>>
>> Having studied menhirs and then the Lascaux cave for years I found an
>> amazing lunisolar calendar encoded in two ideograms of the midwinter
>> niche (in early 2005), and this calendar turned the axial gallery with
>> the midwinter niche (König) and the rotunda (logical counterpart) into
>> the representation of a year.
>>
>> The Lascaux horse is not a common horse but a mythological creature
>> of the sky.
> The Lascaux horse is a European prehistoric horse, indeed not a common
> horse of Siberian origin.

Franz probably hasn't realized that "common" horses have changed quite
a lot since the time of the Lascaux paintings -- partly by natural
selection, but more by human selection.
>>
>> Richard Fester compiled a map of the Guyenne and Lower Rhône Valley
>> with about two hundred dots for villages whose names end on -ac or -acq,
>> for example Rouffignac and Cognac. He proposed AC or ACQ as word for
>> water.
>
> you dern idiot, -ac is a well-known Gallo-Roman suffix -iac-us, variant
> of -i-cus.
> Who is that Richard Fester?? How can he be that ignorant and stupid?

Apparently he was a German historian who died in 1945.
>
>>
>> I adopted AC for an expanse of land with water,

Interesting just as further evidence that "Magdalenian" is just stuff
Franz invented.


>> --
athel

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 20, 2019, 6:52:30 AM12/20/19
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https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Fester_(Linguist)
Apparently that incompetent idiot (mis-described as a linguist) is the place where Franz takes his inspiration...

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Dec 20, 2019, 7:11:57 AM12/20/19
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Yes, you seem to have the right one. When I searched for "Richard
Fester linguistics" (without quotes) I just got lots of pages about the
wrong one.


--
athel

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 20, 2019, 7:47:38 AM12/20/19
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If you look at the "Diskussion" page, there's a paragraph about Pseudo-Science (Pseudo-Wissenschaft)...

Peter T. Daniels

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Dec 20, 2019, 11:39:37 AM12/20/19
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He was a something who published an article in whichever volume of the
Journal of Indo-European Studies Monograph Series was Franz's bible
before he discovered M&A.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Dec 21, 2019, 4:00:45 AM12/21/19
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I was told time and again that cave art can't be translated into words.
In the previous thread I wrote four messages on how it can be done, but
nobody cared. So I started a new thread with those four messages, and
what happens is ever the same: endless meta-blabla, barren-minded boring
meta-babble. The sci.langers are proud of their blinders. Making sense
forbidden. Only 'hors sol' sound algebra allowed. Richard Fester was
a professor of geology who proposed five ur-words, among them ACQ for
water, referring to some 200 place names ending on -ac or -acq in the
Guyenne, and many more on -ach in Germany, also for example Aachen,
as far as I know in Franken, where the French came from, the Franken
having been a Germanic tribe, the Burgundians. Makes the scatologist
a Hun. Richard Fester was not a linguist but had friends in linguistic
departments who helped him compile long word lists. I said it many times.
The lovely 'Chinese horses' in the axial gallery of Lascaux resemble
Prjewalski horses. But they were not ordinary horses, they were the symbols of the spring sun, the horse of Lascaux in general the sun horse (Marie E.P.
König). As Michel Lorblanchet (French expert on cave art who convincingly
demonstrated how it was done) said (relying on Ferdinand de Saussure)
if a an element in cave art stands for something else we have a case of language, visual language (that does not exist in the catechism of sci.lang,
courtesy Peter The Dogmatician). Glad that there are at least some real
French scholars around - not in sci.lang but in Gallia omnia.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Dec 21, 2019, 4:08:54 AM12/21/19
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What does it say about linguistics that outsiders like Richard Fester and
Marie E.P. König provided impulses on language and reasoning in the Stone
Age? Daniel Europaeus who 'truly launched the Indo-Uralic hypothesis'
called the linguistic departments of his time 'ossified' and never
graduated. And Linear B was deciphered by an architect.

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 21, 2019, 12:21:55 PM12/21/19
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Basically, with such a post, you are officially acknowledging that you are an incompetent outsider to linguistics.
Sorry, but as an incompetent outsider, nothing warrants you can deliver any interesting insight on the field.

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 21, 2019, 12:23:25 PM12/21/19
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Le samedi 21 décembre 2019 10:08:54 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
Note that Ventris was a speaker of Greek and he worked in close relationship with a competent scholar, Chadwick.
Being an architect is irrelevant.

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 21, 2019, 12:25:54 PM12/21/19
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Le samedi 21 décembre 2019 10:00:45 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
> On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 9:49:42 AM UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> > My stalker of nearly fourteen years made me change my posting style.
> > I develop ideas in several threads, from time to time starting a new
> > thread, seeing that some people, ever the same, must drag away the
> > discussion from a given topic. So I gather the relevant messages
> > and post them in a new thread. Plus a corrected version in my
> > Magdalenian publishing thread.
> >
> > Hope the scatologist will stay away.
>
>
> I was told time and again that cave art can't be translated into words.
> In the previous thread I wrote four messages on how it can be done, but
> nobody cared. So I started a new thread with those four messages, and
> what happens is ever the same: endless meta-blabla, barren-minded boring
> meta-babble. The sci.langers are proud of their blinders. Making sense
> forbidden. Only 'hors sol' sound algebra allowed. Richard Fester was
> a professor of geology who proposed five ur-words, among them ACQ for
> water, referring to some 200 place names ending on -ac or -acq in the
> Guyenne,

This is beyond idiocy.
I can't even believe that somebody can claim such crap.
It deserves the gold medal of Magdalenian idiocy.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Dec 21, 2019, 12:53:20 PM12/21/19
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On 2019-12-21 17:25:52 +0000, Arnaud Fournet said:

> Le samedi 21 décembre 2019 10:00:45 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
>> On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 9:49:42 AM UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
>>> My stalker of nearly fourteen years made me change my posting style.
>>> I develop ideas in several threads, from time to time starting a new
>>> thread, seeing that some people, ever the same, must drag away the
>>> discussion from a given topic. So I gather the relevant messages
>>> and post them in a new thread. Plus a corrected version in my
>>> Magdalenian publishing thread.> >> > Hope the scatologist will stay away.
>>
>>
>> I was told time and again that cave art can't be translated into words.
>> In the previous thread I wrote four messages on how it can be done,
>> but> nobody cared. So I started a new thread with those four messages,
>> and
>> what happens is ever the same: endless meta-blabla, barren-minded boring
>> meta-babble. The sci.langers are proud of their blinders. Making sense
>> forbidden. Only 'hors sol' sound algebra allowed. Richard Fester was
>> a professor of geology who proposed five ur-words, among them ACQ for
>> water, referring to some 200 place names ending on -ac or -acq in the
>> Guyenne,
> This is beyond idiocy.
> I can't even believe that somebody can claim such crap.
> It deserves the gold medal of Magdalenian idiocy.

I'm hoping he's going to reveal the Magdalenian origin of the -ange
suffix so common in Lorraine and Luxemburg.

> and many more on -ach in Germany, also for example Aachen,
>> as far as I know in Franken, where the French came from, the Franken
>> having been a Germanic tribe, the Burgundians. Makes the scatologist
>> a Hun. Richard Fester was not a linguist but had friends in linguistic
>> departments who helped him compile long word lists. I said it many times.
>> The lovely 'Chinese horses' in the axial gallery of Lascaux resemble
>> Prjewalski horses. But they were not ordinary horses, they were the
>> symbols of the spring sun, the horse of Lascaux in general the sun
>> horse (Marie E.P.
>> König). As Michel Lorblanchet (French expert on cave art who convincingly
>> demonstrated how it was done) said (relying on Ferdinand de Saussure)
>> if a an element in cave art stands for something else we have a case of
>> language, visual language (that does not exist in the catechism of
>> sci.lang,
>> courtesy Peter The Dogmatician). Glad that there are at least some real
>> French scholars around - not in sci.lang but in Gallia omnia.


--
athel

Peter T. Daniels

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Dec 21, 2019, 1:04:57 PM12/21/19
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a speaker?

> and he worked in close relationship with a competent scholar, Chadwick.
> Being an architect is irrelevant.

The gruntwork had been done by Alice Kober.

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 21, 2019, 1:27:22 PM12/21/19
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My guess: -ange is a prenasalized variant of -ac ...
Just luminous, isn't it?

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Dec 21, 2019, 2:49:37 PM12/21/19
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When driving in that region I've hoped to find a sign to Vidange or
Marie-Ange. No luck, so far.


--
athel

Ruud Harmsen

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Dec 21, 2019, 3:08:15 PM12/21/19
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Sat, 21 Dec 2019 18:53:15 +0100: Athel Cornish-Bowden
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:

>> I can't even believe that somebody can claim such crap.
>> It deserves the gold medal of Magdalenian idiocy.
>
>I'm hoping he's going to reveal the Magdalenian origin of the -ange
>suffix so common in Lorraine and Luxemburg.

Yeah, interested, me too!

Is it, of should it be, pronounced [daN@] (German) or [dA~Z@]
(French)? I tried some research but never really found an answer yet.

>> and many more on -ach in Germany, also for example Aachen,
>>> as far as I know in Franken, where the French came from, the Franken
>>> having been a Germanic tribe, the Burgundians. Makes the scatologist
>>> a Hun. Richard Fester was not a linguist but had friends in linguistic
>>> departments who helped him compile long word lists. I said it many times.


--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com

Ruud Harmsen

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Dec 21, 2019, 3:08:39 PM12/21/19
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Sat, 21 Dec 2019 10:27:21 -0800 (PST): Arnaud Fournet
<fournet...@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:
Guess?

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 21, 2019, 4:42:56 PM12/21/19
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Le samedi 21 décembre 2019 21:08:15 UTC+1, Ruud Harmsen a écrit :
> Sat, 21 Dec 2019 18:53:15 +0100: Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> scribeva:
>
> >> I can't even believe that somebody can claim such crap.
> >> It deserves the gold medal of Magdalenian idiocy.
> >
> >I'm hoping he's going to reveal the Magdalenian origin of the -ange
> >suffix so common in Lorraine and Luxemburg.
>
> Yeah, interested, me too!
>
> Is it, of should it be, pronounced [daN@] (German) or [dA~Z@]
> (French)? I tried some research but never really found an answer yet.

It's always pronounced like French word *ange* = angel

Ruud Harmsen

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Dec 22, 2019, 4:28:53 AM12/22/19
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Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:55 -0800 (PST): Arnaud Fournet
<fournet...@wanadoo.fr> scribeva:
Then why is the Lëtzebuergesch variant -deng?

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differdange
"Differdange (Luxemburgs: Déifferdeng; Duits: Differdingen)"

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 22, 2019, 5:44:31 AM12/22/19
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No idea.
In all cases, -ange derives from -anc-ia, itself a variant of Gallo-Roman -iacus, in the Lorraine region.
It's possible the suffix -anc-ia was felt to be close to Germanic suffix -ingen, whence the replacement or the phonetic interferences.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Dec 28, 2019, 3:41:18 AM12/28/19
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On Saturday, December 21, 2019 at 10:08:54 AM UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
>
> What does it say about linguistics that outsiders like Richard Fester and
> Marie E.P. König provided impulses on language and reasoning in the Stone
> Age? Daniel Europaeus who 'truly launched the Indo-Uralic hypothesis'
> called the linguistic departments of his time 'ossified' and never
> graduated. And Linear B was deciphered by an architect.


Place names in the Lorraine and Luxembourg ending on -ange might perhaps
vary our -ingen village founded by a settler and his people, for example
Wolfilo the settler, Wulfilinga his group of people, Wulfilingen their
village, modern Wülflingen. If AC for an expanse of land with water is
present in -ange -ingen, then the settler owned and distributed the water
of the region.

My hometown of Zurich was named for the Roman castel Turicum on a modest
hill in the center of the old town, only the basic walls left. On the same
hill have been discovered traces of a some 5,000 years old settlement.
By then the hill was in the middle of a river of many arms leaving the lake.
The ancient name could have been TYR AC of a double meaning: the river as
overcomer TYR of the wide plain, and the dwellers on the hill as overcomers
of the watery land AC. So we have TYR.AC Turicum Zürich Zurich. Meanwhile
the rivers were reduced to the broad Limmat and to the quiet Fröschen-
graben 'Frog Ditch' along a part of the medieval city wall, while the
swamps have long been drained.

Then there was a Gallo-Roman Cossiniacum on Lake Lucerne in Central
Switzerland. Celtic -akos Romance -acus -acum indicate possession,
in the given case the estate of one Cossinius. I see in -ak- -ac-
the presence of AC for an expanse of land with water. Cossiniacum
locally Cossiniaco became Cussenacho (before 849) Chüsnach (1064)
Chussenacho (1190) Chiussenacho (1253) and finally Küssnacht
'Kissing Night' ...

Franz Gnaedinger

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Dec 28, 2019, 3:49:34 AM12/28/19
to

> Place names in the Lorraine and Luxembourg ending on -ange might perhaps
> vary our -ingen village founded by a settler and his people, for example
> Wolfilo the settler, Wulfilinga his group of people, Wulfilingen their
> village, modern Wülflingen. If AC for an expanse of land with water is
> present in -ange -ingen, then the settler owned and distributed the water
> of the region.
>
> My hometown of Zurich was named for the Roman castel Turicum on a modest
> hill in the center of the old town, only the basic walls left. On the same
> hill have been discovered traces of a some 5,000 years old settlement.
> By then the hill was in the middle of a river of many arms leaving the lake.
> The ancient name could have been TYR AC of a double meaning: the river as
> overcomer TYR of the wide plain, and the dwellers on the hill as overcomers
> of the watery land AC. So we have TYR.AC Turicum Zürich Zurich. Meanwhile
> the rivers were reduced to the broad Limmat and to the quiet Fröschen-
> graben 'Frog Ditch' along a part of the medieval city wall, while the
> swamps have long been drained.
>
> Then there was a Gallo-Roman Cossiniacum on Lake Lucerne in Central
> Switzerland. Celtic -akos Romance -acus -acum indicate possession,
> in the given case the estate of one Cossinius. I see in -ak- -ac-
> the presence of AC for an expanse of land with water. Cossiniacum
> locally Cossiniaco became Cussenacho (before 849) Chüsnach (1064)
> Chussenacho (1190) Chiussenacho (1253) and finally Küssnacht
> 'Kissing Night' ...

AC for an expanse of land with water is present in many more place names,
for example Liège / Lüttich, Rivage, and Loèche-les-Bains / Leukerbad
in the Swiss Valais, district of Loèche / Leuk.

Goethe

Gestaltung Umgestaltung
Des ewigen Sinnes ewige Unterhaltung

Creation and variation, eternal entertainment of the eternal Mind
(literally Sense, in the case of Cossiniacum Küssnacht 'Kissing Night'
also funny nonsense).

Franz Gnaedinger

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Dec 28, 2019, 4:19:44 AM12/28/19
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My hunch was right, Harlange in NW Luxembourg is called Harlingen in German

Harlange - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Harlange
Diese Seite übersetzen
Harlange (Luxembourgish: Harel, German: Harlingen) is a small town in the commune of Lac de la Haute-Sûre, in north-western Luxembourg. As of 2005, the ...

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 28, 2019, 4:27:42 AM12/28/19
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Le samedi 28 décembre 2019 09:41:18 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
> On Saturday, December 21, 2019 at 10:08:54 AM UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> >
> > What does it say about linguistics that outsiders like Richard Fester and
> > Marie E.P. König provided impulses on language and reasoning in the Stone
> > Age? Daniel Europaeus who 'truly launched the Indo-Uralic hypothesis'
> > called the linguistic departments of his time 'ossified' and never
> > graduated. And Linear B was deciphered by an architect.
>
>
> Place names in the Lorraine and Luxembourg ending on -ange might perhaps
> vary our -ingen village founded by a settler and his people, for example
> Wolfilo the settler, Wulfilinga his group of people, Wulfilingen their
> village, modern Wülflingen. If AC for an expanse of land with water is
> present in -ange -ingen, then the settler owned and distributed the water
> of the region.
>
> My hometown of Zurich was named for the Roman castel Turicum on a modest
> hill in the center of the old town, only the basic walls left. On the same
> hill have been discovered traces of a some 5,000 years old settlement.
> By then the hill was in the middle of a river of many arms leaving the lake.
> The ancient name could have been TYR AC of a double meaning: the river as
> overcomer TYR of the wide plain, and the dwellers on the hill as overcomers
> of the watery land AC. So we have TYR.AC Turicum Zürich Zurich.

You have the "Brittanicus = Hebrew Baratanac" syndrome, that was denounced in the 1600-1700s.
Good etymology requires good segmentation.
Turicum obviously has to be segmented Tur- plus a suffix -icum.

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 28, 2019, 4:28:39 AM12/28/19
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Le samedi 28 décembre 2019 09:41:18 UTC+1, Franz Gnaedinger a écrit :
You're 100% wrong.

Arnaud Fournet

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Dec 28, 2019, 4:29:54 AM12/28/19
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Where is -ac- in these place-names, Möngi?

Daud Deden

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Dec 29, 2019, 5:26:01 PM12/29/19
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Franz, do you have any opinion or analysis of the 44ka Sulawesi cave paintings of hunting scenes showing wild pig, buffalo and disguised hunters?


shoes small toe bones 40ka- China
camou clothing 44ka- Sulawesi
Oldest bark canoes 44-24ka- Papua

Franz Gnaedinger

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Dec 30, 2019, 3:32:50 AM12/30/19
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No, I haven't seen those paintings, but will try to find them online.
Could either be a realistic scene, or a mythological one.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Dec 30, 2019, 3:56:30 AM12/30/19
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> My hunch was right, Harlange in NW Luxembourg is called Harlingen in German
>
> Harlange - Wikipedia
> https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Harlange
> Diese Seite übersetzen
> Harlange (Luxembourgish: Harel, German: Harlingen) is a small town in the commune of Lac de la Haute-Sûre, in north-western Luxembourg. As of 2005, the ...


From a book on names in Central Switzerland: Ing had been an old fertility
god, accounting for the given name Inco Ingo, for the family names Ingold
Ingli, and for place names like Ingenwilare Ingwile Inwil, Inchwile Ancwile
Inkwil, Inkenberg, Ingenbohl.

Ancwile is close to AC for an expanse of land with water - AC AnC AnCwile
... Ingwile ...

Ing may also be present in the ending -inga for a group of people
(Wulfilo and his Wulfil-inga) and their village -ingen (Wulfil-ingen),
invoking fertility for the settlers and their fields.

AC for an expanse of land with water and inverse CA for sky, Old Latin
caelum 'sky', yield together AC CA for the Goebekli Tepe, naming the large
hill as place where the earth AC and sky CA are meeting (or where they had
been separated from each other in the beginning), personified by the Indo
European earth goddess akka (a stammered name according to Pokorny,
a meaningful name in the light of Magdalenian) and by Hebrew Hawwa 'mother
of all life' English Eve, also possibly by the Egyptian earth god Aker,
while inverse CA AC named the Greek earth goddess Gaia.

Further derivatives of AC CA are Latin aqua 'water' obtained via an exchange
between earth and sky - prayers for rain and the smoke of sacrificial fires
imploring rain, falling rain rewarding the prayers and sacrificial fires -
and German Acker 'field', made fertile by the heavenly gifts of rain and
sunshine, with the help of certain deities, among them Ing.

Ing may have personified an expanse of land with water AC

AC AnC ink ing -ingen French -ange

Further derivatives of AC are Au Aue 'rich pasture, meadow, water course'
and Aa, flowing water, brooks and small rivers, frequent in Central and
NE Switzerland, also occurring in the form of Eu. All these names are
oscillating. I see their origin in AC and AC CA.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Dec 30, 2019, 4:07:37 AM12/30/19
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Found them online. Some hunters are partly shown as animals, with a beak
or a tail. This indicates to me a mythological scene. Apparently there
are many more painted caves on Sulawesi. Comparisons between them might
one day reveal more.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Dec 30, 2019, 4:18:24 AM12/30/19
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Ad hoc interpretation: the hunters with animal symbols might represent
tribal leaders, the hand negatives claim a second life in the beyond
for worthy ones, and the animals heavenly hunting grounds for them.
(just a hunch)

Daud Deden

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Dec 30, 2019, 4:25:57 AM12/30/19
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Thanks. Note that many non-modern hunters there and in nearby islands wear porcupine quills, pig teeth or other things penetrating through the nasal septum and ear lobes. I don't think the painting was mythical, being so naturalistic, but not sure.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Jan 6, 2020, 4:27:27 AM1/6/20
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Thank you for the additional information. Hand impressions and negatives
in European cave art claim a second life in the heavenly beyond in
European cave art (my hypothesis) and the same might hold for Indonesian
cave art. One particular feature confirms my opinion. Some hand impressions
and negatives in European cave art are stroked out, and the same in
Indonesian cave art. I have no other explanation than ostracism: This
tribal leader (whose hand we see here) was an unworthy ruler and does not
deserve a second life in the heavenly beyond!

Then there is the size of the hunted animals. The Sulawesi hunters caught
porcupine and mini-buffaloes, not the giant sized animals shown in the
paintings. We have a drawing of a small hunter facing a huge buffalo in the
French cave Le Gabillou, in what I call attention perspective - the focused
attention increased by fear makes the buffalo way bigger than he is. Yet
this was a big buffalo, no mini-buffalo. This makes me think that the really
giant animals are the promise of eternal food in the heavenly beyond for
the worthy tribal leaders born again in the sky.

Michael Janda, eminent expert on Proto-Indo-European and the Rig Veda
sees evidence for a Stone Age belief in a second life somewhere on the
Milky Way in the heavenly beyond in the Sanskrit verses.

Michael Rappenglück identified the falling birdman and wounded bison
and sinking bird on a pole in the pit of Lascaux with the constellations
of Cygnus and Lyra and Aquila respectively, as appearing 17,000 thousand
years ago. I'd say that these are tribal leaders who might be born again
in the region of those constellations, eye of the birdman - Deneb in Cygnus,
eye of the bison - Vega in Lyra, eye of the bird on a pole - Atair in Aquila.

Can they also be located on earth? Yes, via the birdman who appears to be
a river map of the Guyenne http://www.seshat.ch/home/menhir6i.GIF
From this I conclude that the birdman represents tribal leaders of the
Guyenne, the bison tribal leaders (bull mem) of the Lower Rhone Valley,
and the bird on a pole tribal leaders of the Pyrénées.

Modern technology allows fabulous reconstructions of half vanished cave
paintings. Once we have such pictures from the Sulawesi paintings one might
look out whether there is a parallel of the hunters and old constellations,
and whether the hunters can be located on the island.

This my longer answer I could not deliver before Christmas. Wishing you
a good year. Franz

Franz Gnaedinger

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Jan 7, 2020, 3:44:23 AM1/7/20
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AC CA hieroglyphs / Akkad / Acca Larentia

AC CA would have named the Goebekli Tepe as mythological hill where the
earth AC and sky CA are meeting (or where they had been separated from
each other in the beginning), personified by the the Indo-European earth
goddess akka mentioned by Pokorny) and Hebrew Hawwa 'mother of all life'
English Eve, while inverse CA AC named the Greek earth goddess Gaia.

AC CA was rendered by a pair of Goebekli Tepe hieroglyphs, 1) a ring,
the ring itself the primeval earth and the hollow the sky, exemplified
by the head of the sky god shown ex negativo by the big limestone ring,
and 2) by the lying H whose lower horizontal bar indicates the earth AC
and whose upper horizontal bar the sky CA while the slim vertical bar stands
for exchanges between them, especially prayers for rain and the rising
smoke of sacrificial fires imploring rain (snakes heading upward) and
falling rain rewarding the prayers and sacrificial fires (snakes heading
downward) http://www.seshat.ch/home/tablets.GIF (consider the bottom line)


Klaus Schmidt, late excavator of the Goebekli Tepe, identified the sacred
Du-ku mountain of Sumerian mythology where the first gods and goddesses
came from with that large hill in southeastern Anatolia. Magdalenian DhAG
means able, good in the sense of able, and accounts for Du-ku, for Sumerian
dingir announcing a deity, for Greek theos and Latin deus (well compatible
in Magdalenian), and for the name of the supreme Celtic god Dagda, the
good god in the sense of the able god (Barry Cunliffe), from the emphatic
doubling DhAG DhAG able able. The Goebekli Tepe was then the hill where
the able ones came from, early gods and goddesses.

The most famous ziqqurat was the one of the god Marduk in Babylon called
Etemenanki 'House of the foundation of sky and earth'. Herodot reported
a ceremonial marriage between a priestess and the god (probably represented
by the king) on this artificial hill that secured the wealth of the country.
We may imagine and older mythological union between the earth AC personified
by a goddess and the sky CA personified by a god which produced a variety
of divine beings, able ones DhAG - a mytho of origin summarized in the
formula AC CA DhAG shortened to Akkad.

Acca Larentia, originally a Sabinian earth goddess, had been adopted by
the Romans and became the goddess of open fields. Her title was Larum mater,
mother of the Lares. The Lares were housegods; keepers of the flame in the
hearth; guards of estates, gardens and groves; protectors of roads, forks
of roads and crossroads; deified souls of the deceased; and public Lares,
protectors of the nation, among them Romulus and Remus who had been raised
by Acca Larentia, a Lar herself.

The Lares were the most worshiped deities of Rome.

Old Latin had Lases that later on became Lares. Magdalenian LAS means
mountain. Acca Larentia came from the Sabinian mountain land north of Rome.
She might originally have been worshiped on hills - on earth AC under the
sky CA, an emanation of the Indo-European earth goddess akka.




Daud Deden

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Jan 7, 2020, 7:21:35 AM1/7/20
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Can you tell me where you got the idea that they were hunting porcupine?

Today Sulawesi has no porcupine, (though it does have porcupine puffer fish), I don't think they were native there. Thanks.

Arnaud Fournet

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Jan 7, 2020, 8:14:41 AM1/7/20
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Seems like Reality has suddenly intruded in your fancies...

Daud Deden

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Jan 7, 2020, 8:46:44 PM1/7/20
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Franz has impeccable fancies, while AF has 'garbage'.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Jan 8, 2020, 2:30:56 AM1/8/20
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On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 1:21:35 PM UTC+1, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> Today Sulawesi has no porcupine, (though it does have porcupine puffer fish), I don't think they were native there. Thanks.

Here is a link:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141008-cave-art-sulawesi-hand-science/

Scroll down to the pig-deer in a Sulawesi cave, a hoglike animal.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Jan 8, 2020, 2:54:59 AM1/8/20
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Egyptian life symbol Ankh

The Goebekli Tepe had been the center of what is now called Neolithic I
12,000 years ago. And 10,000 years ago early Mesopotamian farmers wandered
southward and reached northwestern Africa (for the latter see: David Reich,
Who We Are and How We Got Here, Oxford 2019).

You certainly know the Egyptian life symbol Ankh. It may be read in
different ways, for example as memory of an ancient myth of how the Nile
was created. The Orion goddess filled her Sirius gourd at an eastern well,
then wandered westward, stumbled over the cliffs at Deir el-Bahari, the
Sirus gourd fell from her head, the water flew out and created the first
River Nile ... A lucky mishap visualized in the night sky

http://www.seshat.ch/home/orion2.GIF

Or it may show the Sacral Knot of her priestess.

Or then the goddess herself, her head of a bird indicating the sky,
her outstretched arms the surface of the earth, and her body the fertile
depth of the earth.

Consider the elegant goddess from El-Mamaryia. Her bird-head indicates
the sky, her eyes moon and sun, her raised arms the slopes of the eastern
and western mountains, her hands the stars rising from the eastern mountain
and setting on the western mountain, her breasts a promise of nourishment
we find on the surface of the earth, and her lower body in the shape of
a carrot the fertile earth. (Her pose, combined with other depictions
from the Mediterranean, suggests a dance of creation: her hands on her womb
- on her brests - on her head - opening the circle of arms - and spreading
the fingers ...)

At an antiquity fair I saw a beautiful 'violin idol' of translucent white
marble from the Cyclades: the body of the goddess a disc, diameter some
five centimeters, her breasts and at the same time arms two lateral
protrudings, her head a smaller disc, diameter some three centimeters,
appearing like the shining full moon when held against light ...

So we have her body as earth AC and her head as sky CA, together AC.CA
An.kA Ankh ??

An Egyptian papyrus mentions a Syrian province by the name of aqa - maybe
the region of the Goebekli Tepe in southeastern Anatolia and northwestern
Syria?



Daud Deden

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Jan 8, 2020, 5:33:52 AM1/8/20
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Yes, the warty pig and the babirusa pig-deer live in Sulawesi. I see I had mentioned to you porcupine quills, those are worn in other parts of SE Asia & Australasia.

Papua: curled tusks
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/844987948810595322/

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 8, 2020, 10:28:12 AM1/8/20
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On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 2:54:59 AM UTC-5, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:

> The Goebekli Tepe had been the center of what is now called Neolithic

This is the fallacy of discovery.

Even so great an authority as Lilian Jeffrey stated that the alphabet
was transmitted from Phoenician to Greek at Al-Mina -- and the only
reason for the choice of that particular site was that it happened
to be the first one where evidence of interaction between the two
seafaring groups (at the right time) was discovered.

Franz has no idea whether some other site 20 km or 1000 km away might
be a better candidate, which just hasn't been discovered (or of which
no trace has survived).

Arnaud Fournet

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Jan 8, 2020, 2:40:28 PM1/8/20
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Franz does not care about reality.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Jan 10, 2020, 2:50:53 AM1/10/20
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You can't even quote a complete line: The Goebekli Tepe had been the
center of what is now called Neolithic I --- Neolithic One. Before the
discovery of the Goebekli Tepe, the Neolithic began 6,000 years ago,
since then the Neolithic began 12,000 years ago, and so one speaks of
the Neolithic I, Neolithic One. The Goebekli Tepe region is larger
than Switzerland, and many more pillars with snake reliefs have been
discovered in that region, but none as impressive as the Goebekli Tepe.
So, for the time being, the Goebekli Tepe was the center of the Neolithic I.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Jan 10, 2020, 3:07:54 AM1/10/20
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Sorry for the typo, I did not mean porcupine but pigs French porcs. Now
for the meaning of hand silhouettes. The Ominin myth of West New Guinea
says that the ancestors of the natives came from the sun, reached the
earth, groped along the rock walls and thus left shining hand silhouettes.

A younger drawing, maybe around one thousand years old, shows the contour
of a leguan and is explained by natives via a rite of initiation: every
year young males who are ready to be initiated must catch a living
crocodile, whereupon they are accepted among the men.

Hand silhouettes can have different meanings. One should neither jump
to conclusions, nor prematurely narrow down the the range of possible
meanings.

The oldest Sulawesi rock paintings could also honor merited hunters
whoe were 'immortalized' with a hand silhouette: able hunters who might
overcome way bigger animals, are swift like a legendary bird (hunter
with a beak) or a mythological feline (hunter with a tail). Or the
hunter with the beak might have coordinated the group of hunters,
and so tell us about cooperation, and how it makes a group of small
people achieving a big task. Many possibilities.

But also my first hunch remains a possibility, supreme tribal leaders
claiming a second life in a heavenly beyond - turned around in the
above Ominin myth, where the ancestors came from the sky.

PS Certain people define reality as what is found in textbooks.
Linguistic textbooks rarely speak of cave art and rock art and
visual language, ergo these do not exist.

Daud Deden

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Jan 10, 2020, 4:17:23 AM1/10/20
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The Toraja people of south Sulawesi entomb their dead in caves. That is rather unique in SEAsia, Papua & Australia, so I suspect a link to the cave paintings.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/londa-burial-caves

I've long suspected that Papua & Australia was first settled from the northeast from Philippines-Borneo, rather than from the west, due to the prevailing currents.

Also, 10 new bird taxa have been found on Sulawesi, showing its remoteness and unique fauna, as the 19th C naturalist Wallace often remarked upon.

The New York Times
Trove of New Bird Species Found on Remote Indonesian Islands
Researchers found 10 new species and subspecies of songbirds off the coast of Sulawesi, with distinct songs and genetics from known birds.

A Togian jungle-flycatcher, one of several new bird species found in the Wallacean islands off Indonesia’s east coast.

By Karen Weintraub
Jan. 9, 2020
One day in 2009, Frank Rheindt was wandering up a forested mountainside on an Indonesian island when the skies opened up. He had spent months planning this trip, days finding a charter boat that would carry him to this remote place, and hours plodding uphill, but the local tour guides insisted that the rain would make the search impossible.

Reluctantly, Dr. Rheindt agreed to head to lower ground.

But on the way down, even with the deluge, he was startled by the sight of a thrush sitting on a log. Dr. Rheindt, an ornithologist, knew that a thrush shouldn’t have been on that island, and that the species normally would seek shelter from the rain.

A little farther along, he heard the distinctive call of a grasshopper warbler, an endangered bird that’s normally hard to spot. “I could tell from the sound that it was a grasshopper warbler, but different than I was used to,” he said. “That’s when I knew I was going to come up again.”

Listen to the new species, Taliabu-Grasshopper Warbler
Researchers identified 10 new birds on the remote islands of Indonesia.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Jan 11, 2020, 4:09:45 AM1/11/20
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Magdalenian CA for sky would go back to a much older word I postulate
for South Africa in the time of the Blombos cave, 75,000 years ago,
KA for what is beyond, in the sky, inside rock, in the depth of a lake,
also deep inside ourselves, accessible to a shaman or shamaness in
a trance induced by a special breathing technique.

A most productive compound had been AAR RAA NOS for the sky god, he of
äir AAR and light RAA with a mind NOS of his own, visualized ex negativo
by the big limestone ring on the Goebekli Tepe

http://www.seshat.ch/home/ouranos.JPG

his eyes moon and sun (indicated by a contemporary stone tablet), accounting
for the Greek sky god Ouranos and the sky ouranos; for Varuna, the old sky
god of the Indus Valley, later relegated to the Underworld; then for the
Sumerian sky god An and the Hurrian sky god Anu

AAR RAA NOS A...N An A...Nu Anu

and the Hurri bull of the night sky

AAR RAA (NOS) huR Ri Hurri

relegated from the day sky that was taken over by TYR SsEYR (Sseus Zeus)
in the form of the Serri bull.

A variation of the name is AAR RAA CA, he of air AAR and light RAA in the
sky CA, naming Uruk that was protected from above, Uruk of the cattle
enclosure in the Gilgamesh epic, Erech and the ark in the Bible (founded
by the southern NOS AAR RAA Noah who followed the mind NOS of the one of
air AAR and light RAA, while the northern Noah and his people settled in
the plain of Armenia, from AAR RAA MAN Armenia, land of those who carried
out the will of the god with their right hand MAN).

AAR RAA CA also named the Egyptian Horus falcon whose eyes were moon and
sun, while AAR RAA AC named Horakhty, the Horus falcon on the horizon,
CA meaning sky, inverse AC earth. And RAA alone became Ra, supreme god
appearing in the solar disc.

AAR RAA AD DA named Harappa, the god protecting this town on a river that
flows toward AD the Arabic Sea while coming from DA the Himalayas (Arab
from AAR RAA BRA, he who carries out the will of the god with his right
arm BRA).

A most important variant is AAR RAA ) or AAR RAA L for the god who has
the say ) or L, surviving in Aral Sea and Ural. ) or L alone, in a longer
form )OG or LOG, named a variety of gods, Ugaritic Ilu, Canaanite El,
Hebrew El and Elohim, Hurrian Alalu, Arabic Allah, and Greek logos -
'in the beginning was the word logos, and the word logos was with God,
and the word logos was God (John 1:1 in the Bible).

There have been numerous or better innumerable cosmogonies and cosmologies,
a caledidoscope of ideas, models, variations and combinations, among them
perhaps also the sky of three layers proposed by Arnaud Fournet that could
have been mirrored in layers of the Underworld, Tartaros having been the
lowest one. Even ten correlated spheres of heaven and hell are found in
Dante Alighieri's Divina Commedia. Why comedy? the cheeky poet equated
the first ring of hell with our planet from the equator to about the
northern polar circle in his cosmological-moralic dream vision.




Daud Deden

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Jan 11, 2020, 4:22:23 AM1/11/20
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That auranos stone ring could have been metaphorical?

At 17.51 minutes in this video on primitive technology, the guy makes a stone ring and ceramic rings for fire drilling, wood drilling.

https://youtu.be/-cgQUrdBoaM

Celtic/Slavic fire churn, giant fire drills used for ritual fire starting

Franz Gnaedinger

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Jan 13, 2020, 2:53:39 AM1/13/20
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Arnaud Fournet places Jupiter, Zeus and the Hurrian storm god Teshshub
in the Lower Sky. These and many more supreme sky and weather gods were
named by a double formula

ShA PAD TYR AS CA
DhAG PAD TYR AS CA

The ruler ShA goes ahead (activity of feet) PAD
and overcomes in the double sense of rule and give TYR
up above (upward) AS in the sky CA
The able one DhAG (repetition)

ShA PAD TYR Iuppiter Iupiter Jupiter Iovis Giove; DhAG PAD TYR Dis pater,
byname of Jupiter. TYR emphatic Middle Helladic SsEYR (Phaistos Disc,
Derk Ohlenroth) Doric Sseus (Wilhelm Larfeld) Homeric Zeus. ShA...CA
DhAG...CA JHWH Jahwe, ruler ShA in the sky CA, able one DhAG in the sky
CA, rider of clouds from Mount Seir (!) in the Negev. Consider also the
Serri bull of the Hurrians adopted by the Hittites; the Serri bull took
over the day sky from the Hurri bull. DhAG AAR RAA NOS named the cereal
god Dagan(u) of Ugarit, a combination of the new and old sky god. TYR and
inverse RYT meaning spear thrower, archer, named the sun archer Tir of
the Armenian Bronze Age, man and woman at the same time. Then there is
a Norse god by the name of Tyr. TYR CA named the Turk peoples as worshipers
of the god in the sky. TYR AS named the ruler of the first Indo-Europeans
on the middle course of the Amu Darya in Central Asia, maybe 6,500 years
ago, as worshiper of TYR (SsEYR Sseus Zeus) up above AS (in the sky),
Tiras in the Bible (Genesis 10:2). TYR AS in the form of AS TYR might have
named Assur; AS TYR DhAG Astarte Ugaritic Atiratu. DhAG ShA PAD named the
Hurrian storm god Teshshub, Urartian Taiseba, Kassitic DhAG ShA PAD CA
Tishpak. ShA PAD Shiva and the TYR CA Durga emanation of his wife ...

DhAG meaning able, good in the sense of able, is present in Sumerian dingir
(and in the sacred Du-ku mountain of Sumerian mythology where the first
gods and goddesses came from, identified as the Goebekli Tepe by Klaus
Schmidt, so the large hill was the hill or mountain of the able ones),
in Greek theos and Latin deus (well compatible in Magdalenian), and in
the name of the supreme Celtic god Dagda, the good god in the sense of
the able god (Barry Cunliffe), from DhAG DhAG able able.

DhAG PAD TYR as a formula is present in Latin Dis pater, Illyrian Dei-
patrous, Greek Zeus pataer (DhAG blended with TYR), Sanskrit dyaus pita.

DhAG has many derivatives, among them day in the sense of the sky god
being the 'father of day' which overformed the original meaning of DhAG
PAD TYR, the able one goes ahead and overcomes in the double sense of
rule and give - he also overcomes the night personified by Nyx, a powerful
goddess feared even by Zeus.

The whole line ShA PAD TYR AS CA may have named Giubiasco by Bellinzona
in the Swiss Canton of Ticino, where Neolithic traders coming from the
lovely South and heading from the grim Alps implored good weather from
Iupiter Iovis Giove, while others who came from the North and had safely
climbed over the alpine barrier thanked him for the luck they had. Plenty
votive gifts were and are still found in the depth of the river bed,
buried under fifteen meters of slowly accumulated gravel.

Next time: Chaos, Ouranos, Kronos, Zeus

Franz Gnaedinger

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Jan 13, 2020, 3:26:18 AM1/13/20
to
On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 10:17:23 AM UTC+1, Daud Deden wrote:
>
> The Toraja people of south Sulawesi entomb their dead in caves. That is rather unique in SEAsia, Papua & Australia, so I suspect a link to the cave paintings.
>
> https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/londa-burial-caves

If the Sulawesi people buried their dead in caves, then we might well
assume that some of the cave paintings invoked a second life in the beyond.

> I've long suspected that Papua & Australia was first settled from the northeast from Philippines-Borneo, rather than from the west, due to the prevailing currents.

Homo Erectus traversed the Wallace Line / Huxley's Line - a water strait
never less than seventeen kilometers wide above a deep sea trench - on
bamboo rafts already 800,000 years ago.

> Also, 10 new bird taxa have been found on Sulawesi, showing its remoteness and unique fauna, as the 19th C naturalist Wallace often remarked upon.
>
> The New York Times
> Trove of New Bird Species Found on Remote Indonesian Islands
> Researchers found 10 new species and subspecies of songbirds off the coast of Sulawesi, with distinct songs and genetics from known birds.
>
> A Togian jungle-flycatcher, one of several new bird species found in the Wallacean islands off Indonesia’s east coast.
>
> By Karen Weintraub
> Jan. 9, 2020
> One day in 2009, Frank Rheindt was wandering up a forested mountainside on an Indonesian island when the skies opened up. He had spent months planning this trip, days finding a charter boat that would carry him to this remote place, and hours plodding uphill, but the local tour guides insisted that the rain would make the search impossible.
>
> Reluctantly, Dr. Rheindt agreed to head to lower ground.
>
> But on the way down, even with the deluge, he was startled by the sight of a thrush sitting on a log. Dr. Rheindt, an ornithologist, knew that a thrush shouldn’t have been on that island, and that the species normally would seek shelter from the rain.
>
> A little farther along, he heard the distinctive call of a grasshopper warbler, an endangered bird that’s normally hard to spot. “I could tell from the sound that it was a grasshopper warbler, but different than I was used to,” he said. “That’s when I knew I was going to come up again.”
>
> Listen to the new species, Taliabu-Grasshopper Warbler
> Researchers identified 10 new birds on the remote islands of Indonesia.

I heard Frank Rheindt give an interview on Swiss radio past Saturday
(yes, we are well informed in our small country, owing to public service
that we call by the French term 'service publique'). He said that the sea
level was 120 meters lower in the Ice Age, so that animals such as the
tiger could enter for example Borneo, while other islands across the
Wallace Line have endemic species. Then he spoke about the five new
species of birds, and that they are menaced by the climate change,
climbing ever higher in the rain forest, but how long can this go on?
the mountains have a limited height.

Arnaud Fournet

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Jan 13, 2020, 4:45:27 AM1/13/20
to
If you read more carefully what I wrote, I said that Jupiter and Zeus mixes features of the Storm-god belonging to the Lower-Sky with the Master of daylight belonging to the Middle-Sky.
The names Ju-piter (father of daylight!) and Zeus are from *deyw-, but these theonyms refers to a thunder-god.
Similar issues exist with Indra, a war-god that has features belonging to the thunder-god.

Daud Deden

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Jan 13, 2020, 8:00:16 AM1/13/20
to
On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 3:26:18 AM UTC-5, Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
> On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 10:17:23 AM UTC+1, Daud Deden wrote:
> >
> > The Toraja people of south Sulawesi entomb their dead in caves. That is rather unique in SEAsia, Papua & Australia, so I suspect a link to the cave paintings.
> >
> > https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/londa-burial-caves
>
> If the Sulawesi people buried their dead in caves, then we might well
> assume that some of the cave paintings invoked a second life in the beyond.

So far, I'm not aware of prehistorical Toraja cave burials, so I don't know if the custom dates back before a thousand years.

> > I've long suspected that Papua & Australia was first settled from the northeast from Philippines-Borneo, rather than from the west, due to the prevailing currents.
>
> Homo Erectus traversed the Wallace Line / Huxley's Line - a water strait
> never less than seventeen kilometers wide above a deep sea trench - on
> bamboo rafts already 800,000 years ago.

Speculatively. Could have been an occasional storm that washed away a few survivors towards another island, rather than any intentional voyaging. There's no evidence of H erectus travel beyond nearby neighboring islands, while 44ka Hs left physical traces all over, indicating deliberate & capable oceanic travel.

I am reading now the story of The Last Whalers, by Doug Bock Clark, about the Lamahera whale harpooners, who originated on Sulawesi but island hopped towards Flores escaping tsunami and war. They carve & paint prow faces on their tenã boats, but caves aren't mentioned.


> > Also, 10 new bird taxa have been found on Sulawesi, showing its remoteness and unique fauna, as the 19th C naturalist Wallace often remarked upon.
> >
> > The New York Times
> > Trove of New Bird Species Found on Remote Indonesian Islands
> > Researchers found 10 new species and subspecies of songbirds off the coast of Sulawesi, with distinct songs and genetics from known birds.
> >
> > A Togian jungle-flycatcher, one of several new bird species found in the Wallacean islands off Indonesia’s east coast.
> >
> > By Karen Weintraub
> > Jan. 9, 2020
> > One day in 2009, Frank Rheindt was wandering up a forested mountainside on an Indonesian island when the skies opened up. He had spent months planning this trip, days finding a charter boat that would carry him to this remote place, and hours plodding uphill, but the local tour guides insisted that the rain would make the search impossible.
> >
> > Reluctantly, Dr. Rheindt agreed to head to lower ground.
> >
> > But on the way down, even with the deluge, he was startled by the sight of a thrush sitting on a log. Dr. Rheindt, an ornithologist, knew that a thrush shouldn’t have been on that island, and that the species normally would seek shelter from the rain.
> >
> > A little farther along, he heard the distinctive call of a grasshopper warbler, an endangered bird that’s normally hard to spot. “I could tell from the sound that it was a grasshopper warbler, but different than I was used to,” he said. “That’s when I knew I was going to come up again.”
> >
> > Listen to the new species, Taliabu-Grasshopper Warbler
> > Researchers identified 10 new birds on the remote islands of Indonesia.
>
> I heard Frank Rheindt give an interview on Swiss radio past Saturday
> (yes, we are well informed in our small country, owing to public service
> that we call by the French term 'service publique'). He said that the sea
> level was 120 meters lower in the Ice Age, so that animals such as the
> tiger could enter for example Borneo, while other islands across the
> Wallace Line have endemic species. Then he spoke about the five new
> species of birds, and that they are menaced by the climate change,
> climbing ever higher in the rain forest, but how long can this go on?
> the mountains have a limited height.

The mountains are greening due to CO2 & greenhouse effects, even on Mt. Everest, per recent news articles. It is human hyper-population & eco-destruction that concerns me most.

Franz Gnaedinger

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Jan 14, 2020, 4:04:50 AM1/14/20
to
Chaos, Ouranos, Kronos, Zeus (part 1)

CA NOS meaning sky CA mind NOS may have accounted for Chaos, naming mere
potential, maybe comparable to the empty circle wu of Chinese philosophy

CA CwA wA wu ??

that may perhaps have a correspondence in the energy of empty space
in modern astrophysics, a 'danse' of emerging and disappearing virtual
particles.

Now for the cosmology of the Goebekli Tepe, as encoded in the hieroglyphs
on the necks of the female and male central pillars of temple D, in my
opinion the temple of creation http://www.seshat.ch/home/gt01.GIF

The fire giver PIR GID who had the say called out to her sisters, the fur
giver BIR GID and fertility giver BRI GID. BIR GID took her cosmic fur
and scooped the primeval hill out of the primeval sea. BRI GID formed the
hill into a ring and planted the seeds of life. In the hollow of the ring
appeared the head of the sky god http://www.seshat.ch/home/ouranos.JPG
His eyes were moon and sun. PIR GID lit up the solar eye, and the warm
sunshine made the seeds of life germinate ...

The sky god was called AAR RAA NOS, he of air AAR and light RAA with
a mind NOS of his own. GIS BAL CA MmOS GISh.BIL.GA.MISh Gilgamesh,
the gesturing GIS hot(headed) BAL heavenly CA offspring MmOS broke up
the ring, flattened the earth AC and sky CA, whereupon AD DA MAN
Adam dug rivers beds that made the water flow toward AD the sea
while coming from DA hills and mountains, and dug them with horns
held in his right hand MAN ...

AAR RAA NOS was implored for rain, mediated by snakes, most frequent
symbol in the Goebekli Tepe iconography: snakes heading upward symbolize
prayers for rain and the rising smoke of sacrificial fires imploring rain,
snakes heading downward falling rain, and snakes undulating horizontally
rivers, on pillar 33 of temple D the Euphrates and Tigris, also a grid
of irrigation channels on a stone tablet from Jerf el-Ahmar.

The air AAR containing water is denoted by derivatives meaning rain,
for example Avestan var and Sanskrit var(i), turning AAR RAA NOS into
the sky god Varuna of the Indus Valley.

(If the PIE sky of three layers proposed by Arnaud Fournet holds,
Ouranos would have been elevated to the Upper Sky maybe around 6,500
years ago, whereas Varuna had later been relegated to the Underworld.)

AAR RAA NOS accounts not only for Ouranos and Varuna (and an early Italian
equivalent providing rain that filled the river Arno), but also for Greek
hora (with omega) 'period of time; season; spring; harvest; climate; year;
daytime, day, hour; moment; age or phase (of life); youth'.

The god had a calendar of his own. A year counted 12 months of 30 days,
in all a basic year of 360 days, ideally represented by a circle of a dozen
poles. Add 5 and occasionally 6 more days and you get a regular year of 365
and an occasional leap year of 366 days, the additional days represented
by the space between two larger central poles in the middle of the circle
of a dozen poles. 63 continuous periods of 30 days are 1,890 days and
correspond to 64 lunations or synodic months; mistake less than one minute
per lunation, or half a day in a lifetime.

A calendar of these numbers in a more complex design - the ideal circle
of a dozen poles replaced by a double loop of stone pillars, the year
combined with the life and career of a supreme tribal leader - is encoded
in temple B on the Goebekli Tepe http://www.seshat.cH/home/goebekli.GIF

Next time: part 2

Franz Gnaedinger

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Jan 15, 2020, 2:17:45 AM1/15/20
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Chaos, Ouranos, Kronos, Zeus (part 2)

The large hill Goebekli Tepe - only five per cent excavated so far,
religious center of an area larger than Switzerland - was carefully
filled up with rubble and abandoned between 9,500 and 9,000 years ago.
A new age began, the time of CRE NOS Kronos.

Magdalenian CER means stag or hind, also shaman or shamaness. And the
permutation CRE means to rule, Greek kreion 'ruler'. NOS means mind,
Greek nous. CRE NOS Kronos had been the Ruling Mind.

The Greek myth of Kronos castrating Ouranos refers to an astronomical
revolution that involved the abandoning of calendar poles and pillars.

Astronomy of AAR RAA NOS, Goebekli Tepe, 12,000 years ago - lunations
were counted in the 30 29 30 mode. 15 and 17 lunations yield 443 and
502 days respectively, together 945 days for 32 lunations, doubled
1,890 days for 64 lunations.

Astronomy of CRE NOS, for example Tell Halaf in Syria, 9,000 years ago
- 17 15 17 15 17 lunations yield 502 945 1447 1890 2392 days for 17 32
49 64 81 lunations, while an additive sequence allows to calculate the
number of days in years

365/1 (plus 1461/4) 1826/5 3287/9 4748/13 6209/17

7670/21 9131/25

25 regular years of 365 days are 9,125 days. Add 6 leap days and you get
9,131 days for 25 years (exactly 9,131.049... days). I believe that a
decorative bowl from Tell Halaf, about 9,000 years old, alluded to this
formula.

Next time: part 3


Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Jan 15, 2020, 4:28:25 AM1/15/20
to
On 2020-01-15 07:17:43 +0000, Franz Gnaedinger said:

>>
>> [ … ]

>>
> Next time: part 3

More musings that no one will read, let alone study.


--
athel

Franz Gnaedinger

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Jan 16, 2020, 2:15:07 AM1/16/20
to
On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 10:28:25 AM UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> More musings that no one will read, let alone study.

Meta-babble, endless barren boring meta-babble.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Jan 16, 2020, 2:18:36 AM1/16/20