Op 30/09/2019 om 20:23 schreef Christian Weisgerber:
I took it...
> is misleading) asserted significant influence on French (langue
... we knew that (about speaking of "Dutch" for o.Frankish).
> Mireille Huchon, _Histoire de la langue française_ mentions:
> Pronunciation of aspirated h, reintroduction of [w], shift of [u]
> to [y], reinforced stress accent leading to the loss of final vowels;
> word order and lexicon with the contribution of more than a thousand
> words, suffixes
Yes, these are the 'obvious' influences.
> Features like V2 word order and final devoicing in Old French reek
> of Germanic influence.
>> My first reaction was, the pronouns were necessary due to loss of
>> markers in the verb form itself, due to general loss of final vowels
>> (and consonants -s , -t, -z, -nt...).
> Yup. Subject pronouns became more common and eventually mandatory
> over the course of late Old French and Middle French. This was a
> drawn-out process. As ambiguity creeps in, speakers bit by bit
Yes, but the contingency of the counterpart evolution (mandatory pronoun
as done by adoptive speakers of another language that has this feature,
causing loss of verb ends) cannot be excluded entirely, methinks.
> BTW, googling for <null subject in germanic> will bring up various
> papers that mention that there is some controversy whether the old
> germanic languages themselves were pro-drop. Specifically, the
> authors discuss "referential null subjects" since "pro-drop" itself
> seems to be a problematic term.
> A tangential question would be whether colloquial French "faut que ..."
> instead of formal "il faut que ..." is actually an elision or instead
> a relict from back when impersonal expressions didn't require a
> subject pronoun.
I think it's hardly a relic, more a modism.
Some features may pop up again after ages.
Take ergative-ish expressions, like "methinks" above.
In Dutch, "me dunkt dat...", "het lijkt me dat...". Those are relics.
But then we have also:
Dat boek leest als een trein. That book "reads" like a train (fast).
Die stoel zit lekker. That chair "sits" comfy.
Dat type asfalt rijdt stil. That type of asphalt "drives" smoothly.
Those are not relics, but modern ways of "ergativism".
> (Are lone surviving forms "relics" or "relicts"?)
My old dico gives "widow" for "relict" ("rarely = relic").