quite

[Arnaud F.]

I have a question for native speakers:

Let's take: That was quite [a party].

Is it possible to say: That quite was [a party]?
Is this acceptable?

Thx

A.

[benl...@ihug.co.nz]

No.
"Quite" is part of the noun phrase.
He made quite a fuss.
He awoke with quite a hangover.

[Arnaud F.]

Le samedi 29 septembre 2012 13:24:27 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
> On Sep 29, 11:06 pm, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
>
> > Is it possible to say: That quite was [a party]?
>
> > Is this acceptable?

***

>
>
>
> No.
>
> "Quite" is part of the noun phrase.
>
> He made quite a fuss.
>
> He awoke with quite a hangover.

***
Thanks,

Is this true for all speakers?

Are there other items that can be substituted to quite (with presumably other meanings)?

A.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 29, 7:30 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Le samedi 29 septembre 2012 13:24:27 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
>
> > On Sep 29, 11:06 pm, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> > > Is it possible to say: That quite was [a party]?
>
> > > Is this acceptable?
>
> ***
>
>
>
> > No.
>
> > "Quite" is part of the noun phrase.
>
> > He made quite a fuss.
>
> > He awoke with quite a hangover.
>
> ***
> Thanks,
>
> Is this true for all speakers?

Yes

> Are there other items that can be substituted to quite (with presumably other meanings)?

that was a hell of a party

that was a bummer of a party

that was a humdinger of a rocket launch

(but no others with modifier-type things rather than nouns?)

Perhaps they're like the "pride of lions" / "exaltation of larks"
group.

[Arnaud F.]

Le samedi 29 septembre 2012 15:06:43 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :
> On Sep 29, 7:30 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> > Le samedi 29 septembre 2012 13:24:27 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
>
> >
>
> > > On Sep 29, 11:06 pm, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > > Is it possible to say: That quite was [a party]?
>
> >
>
> > > > Is this acceptable?
>
> >
>
> > ***
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > No.
>
> >
>
> > > "Quite" is part of the noun phrase.
>
> >
>
> > > He made quite a fuss.
>
> >
>
> > > He awoke with quite a hangover.
>
> >
>
> > ***
>
> > Thanks,
>
> >
>
> > Is this true for all speakers?
>
>
>
> Yes
>

***

ok,
Let's admit it's indeed the case.

Is it possible to use quite without an article?
like in "That was quite winter/summertime"?

A.
***

[Yusuf B Gursey]

> ***-

I am not a native speaker but I have been in the US a considerable
time including pre-college, so I would say definitely "no".

[Bart Mathias]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 15:36:33 -0700 (PDT)
Yusuf B Gursey <ygu...@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

> >
> > Is it possible to use quite without an article?
> > like in "That was quite winter/summertime"?
> >
> > A.
> > ***-
>
> I am not a native speaker but I have been in the US a considerable
> time including pre-college, so I would say definitely "no".

But there's quite two questions there.

The answer to the first is "Yes." It's quite possible and quite correct.
--
Bart Mathias <mat...@hawaii.edu>

[Yusuf B Gursey]

good point. I missed that.

> --
> Bart Mathias <math...@hawaii.edu>

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sep 29, 7:49 pm, Bart Mathias <math...@hawaii.edu> wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 15:36:33 -0700 (PDT)
> Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> > > Is it possible to use quite without an article?
> > > like in "That was quite winter/summertime"?
>
> > > A.
> > > ***-
>
> > I am not a native speaker but I have been in the US a considerable
> > time including pre-college, so I would say definitely "no".
>
> But there's quite two questions there.

I can't say that -- just "quite a question."

> The answer to the first is "Yes." It's quite possible and quite correct.

"Quite" is now modifying an adjective and not a noun.

You're quite the syntactician!

[DKleinecke]

Would the example of
That was never a party
That never was a party
help?

[Arnaud F.]

***

Not exactly,

"That was quite a party" is alleged to be an example of an adverbe modifying a noun: i.e "a party",
so I wonder whether "quite a" could not be alternatively analyzed as a compound noun-determiner instead of an adverb,
and the other issue is to determine whether "quite + noun" without article is possible.

A.

[Peter T. Daniels]

> help?-

It doesn't modify the noun. You can't say "That was a never party."

[benl...@ihug.co.nz]

On Sep 30, 10:05 pm, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Le dimanche 30 septembre 2012 06:25:30 UTC+2, DKleinecke a écrit :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 29, 4:30 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> > > Le samedi 29 septembre 2012 13:24:27 UTC+2, benl...@ihug.co.nz a écrit :
>
> > > > On Sep 29, 11:06 pm, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> > > > > Is it possible to say: That quite was [a party]?
>
> > > > > Is this acceptable?
>
> > > ***
>
> > > > No.
>
> > > > "Quite" is part of the noun phrase.
>
> > > > He made quite a fuss.
>
> > > > He awoke with quite a hangover.
>
> > > ***
>
> > > Thanks,
>
> > > Is this true for all speakers?
>
> > > Are there other items that can be substituted to quite (with presumably other meanings)?
>
> > > A.
>
> > Would the example of
>
> >      That was never a party
>
> >      That never was a party
>
> > help?
>
> ***
>
> Not exactly,
>
> "That was quite a party" is alleged to be an example of an adverbe modifying a noun: i.e "a party",

I think this was its origin. An intensifying adverb, actually
modifying a nominal predicate, rather than a noun. We still have it
with some other kinds of predicates

He is quite intelligent (fairly)
That is quite out of the question. (totally)

> so I wonder whether "quite a" could not be alternatively analyzed as a compound noun-determiner instead of an adverb,

This sounds like the right idea for the present situation.

> and the other issue is to determine whether "quite + noun" without article is possible.
>
> A.

Not for me.

[Arnaud F.]

Le dimanche 30 septembre 2012 14:32:57 UTC+2, Peter T. Daniels a écrit :

>
> It doesn't modify the noun. You can't say "That was a never party."

***

A never-never party?

A.

[Arnaud F.]

***

So you mean that in the sentence "That was quite x y"

x must be the article "a"

and y must be a countable noun?

*That was quite beer
*That was quite holidays
etc
=> status= not acceptable, right?

A.

[Peter T. Daniels]

No. "Never-Never-Land" is a proper name, invented by J. M. Barrie in
*Peter Pan*.

[DKleinecke]

Of course. But what was Arnaud originally asking? He had brackets
around "a party" as though it was not part of the question.

[DKleinecke]

"quite + adjective" is accepted. All you have to do is use a noun as
adjective.
"That was quite navy". Most English nouns can be used this way but it
is commonest with proper names "That was quite LA". Pedants will
surely insist that an invisible noun to adjective derivation has been
made.

[Bart Mathias]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 20:16:31 -0700 (PDT)
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Sep 29, 7:49 pm, Bart Mathias <math...@hawaii.edu> wrote:
> > On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 15:36:33 -0700 (PDT)
> > Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >
> >
> > > > Is it possible to use quite without an article?
> > > > like in "That was quite winter/summertime"?
> >
> > > > A.
> > > > ***-
> >
> > > I am not a native speaker but I have been in the US a considerable
> > > time including pre-college, so I would say definitely "no".
> >
> > But there's quite two questions there.
>
> I can't say that -- just "quite a question."

Not easy for me, either, but borderline. I've been speaking English quite a bit longer than you.

> > The answer to the first is "Yes." It's quite possible and quite correct.
>
> "Quite" is now modifying an adjective and not a noun.

Yes, I see I was thinking about what he said, rather than what he meant.
Some of my friends consider me to literal-minded.

> You're quite the syntactician!

Thanks! I'll save that out of context, where it assumes a literal meaning, and
tell my friends, look what Peter Daniels said about me!

[Arnaud F.]

***

Just to make sure I perfectly understood you,

the sentences: "That was quite navy" and "That was quite LA" are acceptable for native speakers, right!?

Is it possible to say: "that was quite her"?
I suppose "that was quite she" would be the acme of pedantism...

A.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Oct 1, 3:26 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Le lundi 1 octobre 2012 01:33:04 UTC+2, DKleinecke a écrit :
>
> > On Sep 30, 2:05 am, "Arnaud F." <fournet.arn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> > "quite + adjective" is accepted. All you have to do is use a noun as
>
> > adjective.
>
> > "That was quite navy". Most English nouns can be used this way but it
>
> > is commonest with proper names "That was quite LA".
>
> ***
>
> Just to make sure I perfectly understood you,
>
> the sentences: "That was quite navy" and "That was quite LA" are acceptable for native speakers, right!?
>
> Is it possible to say: "that was quite her"?

yes.

> I suppose "that was quite she" would be the acme of pedantism...
>
> A.

those would be acceptable for native speakers in informal conversation
particularly I would say for somewhat younger people or those that
feel confortable in the idiom of those of their generation. I for one,
who is somewhat of a foreigner and not confortable in fashionable
colloquialisms and dwell in a rather bookish crowd would not use them.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

BTW, directed at the native English speakers, how would one explain
"cool" ("kwel") to someone who is learning English in America (real
situation)?

I understand it but I rarely use it.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

On Oct 1, 3:51 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:

put it this way: those that use "that was quite she" in my experience
might also say "let us do lunch"

[Peter T. Daniels]

> might also say "let us do lunch"-

I've never heard the former, the latter is quite common.

[DKleinecke]

In context. "That was quite her" requires a lot of context to make
sense - but is acceptable to me at least. In enough context almost
anything can fill the slot in "That was quite _____ ". There ought to
be a word for this situation but I don't know what its is.

It is interesting how much context one would need for "It is quite
she" - the functional equivalent of a novel or at least a long short
story. The linguistic point, in my opinion, is how the slot got
universally open..

[DKleinecke]

I don't see the parallel. "Let's do lunch" is common - more in some
circles than others and probably not with the younger generation. To
me it sounds like an affectation - the kind of thing I would expect in
"Mad Man". On the order of "Let's run it the flagpole and see who
salutes".

[Yusuf B Gursey]

I don't think the slot is so universally open, as I don't go around in
circles that use that expression.

[Paul Madarasz]

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 16:14:51 -1000, Bart Mathias <mat...@hawaii.edu>
wrote, perhaps among other things:

There's "That was quite something!"
--

"One thing happened after another, and before
we knew it, we were dead"
-- Michael O'Donoghue