Translation or "Teitelbaum"
Strandkruier
Somebody here who kwows what the word "Teitelbaum" means?
Obviously, it's some kind of tree (baum). But what kind of tree is it?
I know it's a German word and it also exists in my own language
(Dutch) where it is pronounced as "turtelboom" or "tortelboom".
But I don't really know what a turtelboom could mean!.. It must be
some old etymology, I guess..
Norbert
clicl...@freenet.de
Strandkruier schrieb:
I don't think this word exists in modern German except as a Jewish
family name.
Such names (like Yiddish words in general) often roughly preserve old
(roughly Middle High German) spellings, the modern equivalent in this
case is "Dattelbaum", which tree we now usually call a "Dattelpalme" =
date palm.
Compare <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teitelbaum>.
Latin "dactylus" (from Greek "dáctylos", presumably of semitic origin,
cf. arabic "daqal", and then associated in Greek with the word for
"finger") gave rise to Old High German "dahtil[boum]" and Middle High
German "datel[boum]".
The Dutch spelling is (and was) "dadel"; I think there is no relation
to your "turtel" or "tortel".
Compare <http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dadelpalm>.
Martin.
mb
> case is "Dattelbaum", which tree we now usually call a "Dattelpalme" =
> date palm.
Yup. Raises a question, though: How come relatively many people in
snow-swept countries were named after it, where no one surely had ever
seen a palm tree, to say nothing of a Teitelbaum?
Evertjan.
> On Jul 4, 1:19 pm, "cliclic...@freenet.de"
>
>> case is "Dattelbaum", which tree we now usually call a "Dattelpalme"
>> date palm.
>
> Yup. Raises a question, though: How come relatively many people in
> snow-swept countries were named after it, where no one surely had ever
> seen a palm tree, to say nothing of a Teitelbaum?
Teytlboym?
Are you sure it is not one single family, originating from:
Rabbi Moshe Teitelbaum (1759-1841), also known as the Yismach Moshe, was
the Rebbe of Ujhel in Hungary. According to Löw, he signed his name
"Tamar", this being the equivalent of Teitelbaum, which is the Yiddish for
"palm-tree" (compare German "Dattelbaum").
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teitelbaum>
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
clicl...@freenet.de
mb schrieb:
> On Jul 4, 1:19?pm, "cliclic...@freenet.de"
People in the middle ages probably first learned about southern fruits
from the Bible. Towards the end of mediaeval times, trade in such
fruits had already become established in Central Europe. I imagine
those goods to have been dates, figs, etc. that were suitably
preserved - how long does a fresh lemon last without modern chemicals?
It should be reasonable to assume that Jewish businessmen (itinerant
or not) figured in this trade.
Martin.
Edward Hennessey
cc:
The simple one is the name is inherited in families displaced from the
circumstances in which a name originated. Though geophysical or
biogeographical
disparities figure here along with the Jewish Diaspora and mentions in
their
holy books, many more immigrants flung into other societies with diverging
cultures
or languages often forget the intrinsic meaning of their distinctive names
and the traditional
mechanisms of their assignment within a few generations. For instance, I
have never met
someone with my surname who could explain its significance even though a
little research
makes that readily available.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
mb
wrote:
> mb schrieb:
>
> > On Jul 4, 1:19?pm, "cliclic...@freenet.de"
>
> > > case is "Dattelbaum", which tree we now usually call a "Dattelpalme" =
> > > date palm.
>
> > Yup. Raises a question, though: How come relatively many people in
> > snow-swept countries were named after it, where no one surely had ever
> > seen a palm tree, to say nothing of a Teitelbaum?
>
> People in the middle ages probably first learned about southern fruits
> from the Bible. Towards the end of mediaeval times, trade in such
> fruits had already become established in Central Europe.
Thanks.
> I imagine
> those goods to have been dates, figs, etc. that were suitably
> preserved - how long does a fresh lemon last without modern chemicals?
No chemicals needed for preserving dates and figs. They dry
beautifully and keep for years.
Strandkruier
<strand...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for all your replies, folks. You were all very helpful!
Norbert
mashpe...@gmail.com
Evertjan.
> Teitelbaum means Palm tree!
Specificly a date-palm tree [Phoenix dactylifera]
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%98%D7%99%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%91%D7%95%
D7%99%D7%9D>
were Yiddish 'teytl' comes from German 'Dattel' [= date],
and Yiddish 'boym' from German 'Baum' [= tree].
gag...@gmail.com
Evertjan.
> It's Hebrew. "Teitel" is a derivative of the Hebrew "Dekel"
Well no, not directly from Hebrew in to Yiddish.
"Teitel" is
from German "dattel"
from Middle-High_German "dactel"
from Latin "dactylus"
Greek "daktulos" [ = "finger"]
1 as "Dates" look like fingers
or maybe [also]
2 from Semitic like
2a Arabic "daqal"
2b Hebrew "deqel"
<https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Dattel>
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/date>