Jabberwocky : why Tumtum tree --> l'arbre Té-Té ?

[Hen Hanna]

Té (with the accent) means the letter T or the [T-square].



http://www76.pair.com/keithlim/jabberwocky/translations/french1.html

re: Jabberwocky --> Le Jaseroque

Was this French tr. considered very good? (The German tr. is great.)

Why did the translator change Tumtum tree into l'arbre Té-Té ?

In German, it's just Tumtum Baum or Tumtumbaum

If TTT was important in TumTumTree,
For the German, maybe this is better: Bumbum Baum.


I personally think [ l'arbre Tumtum ] would've been fine.
(Note that "vorpal" is left unchanged.)

I see that in French "Tumtum" would require the U-umlaut vowel.
Maybe "Tumtum" is highly unlikely for baby-talk in French?

I have another guess.

_________________

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought--
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

http://www76.pair.com/keithlim/jabberwocky/translations/french1.html

Son glaive vorpal en main il va-
T-à la recherche du fauve manscant;
Puis arrivé à l'arbre Té-Té,
Il y reste, réfléchissant.

HH

[Evertjan.]

Hen Hanna <henh...@gmail.com> wrote on 03 Mar 2017 in sci.lang.translation:

> Why did the translator change Tumtum tree into

Not "changed", but "translated"

> l'arbre Té-Té ?

Did you ask him? He would be the only one who knows.

> I personally think [ l'arbre Tumtum ] would've been fine.

Well, but you are not the transator in question.

The poem is a nonsensical poem, so the translator is free to mirror that.

> I see that in French "Tumtum" would require the U-umlaut vowel.

You see wrongly! French has no U-umlaut.

> Maybe "Tumtum" is highly unlikely for baby-talk in French?

Maybe the moon is a square.

===========================

I would say: "Puis arrivé ... à l'arbre TéTé"

... is a beautiful alliteration by itself

Or maybe "arbre TéTé" is a rhyming reflection on:

"Maître Corbeau, sur un arbre perché,
Tenait en son bec un fromage."

=============================

<http://www.newyorker.com/contributors/frank-l-warrin/all>
<http://www76.pair.com/keithlim/jabberwocky/translations/french1.html>
<https://books.google.nl/books?id=9tJBa2_6xG0C&pg=PA108>

... all attribute the translation to Frank L Warrin in 1931, btw.

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

[Hen Hanna]

On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 12:17:01 AM UTC-8, Evertjan. wrote:

Thanks for the (crummy and) great comments.


TumTum also sounds like an Onomatopoeia for a baby drinking milk
-- is this true in any language?
What is the Onomatopoeia for a baby drinking milk?
Glug, glug? Slurp? Suckle, suckle?


[ ‘Tum-tum’ apparantly was Victorian slang for the sound of a stringed
instrument, when monotonously strummed. ]

and this is (prob.) how a translator got Dudel, as in
http://www76.pair.com/keithlim/jabberwocky/translations/german3.html
Er zückt' sein scharfgebifftes Schwert,
den Feind zu futzen ohne Saum,
und lehnt' sich an den Dudelbaum
und stand da lang in sich gekehrt.

HH

[Hen Hanna]

l'arbre Tété -- a tree that gives milk ?

l'arbre Té-Té

arbre perché,

arbre pêcher (pecher)

(moku - gyo) 木魚: wooden fish (a Buddhist wooden percussion instrument)

> ... all attribute the translation to Frank L Warrin in 1931, btw.

On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 12:17:01 AM UTC-8, Evertjan. wrote:

> Hen Hanna <...> wrote on 03 Mar 2017 in sci.lang.translation:
>
> > Why did the translator change Tumtum tree into
>
> Not "changed", but "translated"
>
> > l'arbre Té-Té ?
>
> Did you ask him? He would be the only one who knows.

No, and no. He prob. died before I was born.

Thanks for the (crummy and) great comments.

and so quick too --

esp. for a semi-dead group like this one.

_______________

Logic, Meaning, and Conversation: Semantical Underdeterminacy, ...

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0195133005

Jay David Atlas - 2005

... “translations,” a French “translation,” and a German “translation,” but it is possible to judge their relative quality. In my view the German “translation” by Robert Scott is better than the French one by Frank Warrin: Il brilgue: les tôves lubricilleux ...

[Sh.Mandrake]

Le 03/03/2017 à 00:16, Hen Hanna a écrit :
>
> Té (with the accent) means the letter T or the [T-square].
>
>
>
> http://www76.pair.com/keithlim/jabberwocky/translations/french1.html
>
> re: Jabberwocky --> Le Jaseroque
>
> Was this French tr. considered very good?

Imho, it is an excellent translation.

(The German tr. is great.)
>
> Why did the translator change Tumtum tree into l'arbre Té-Té ?

Because "Tumtum" does not mean anything in French.
Whereas "Té-Té" is close to "tèter"(to suck).

> In German, it's just Tumtum Baum or Tumtumbaum
>
> If TTT was important in TumTumTree,
> For the German, maybe this is better: Bumbum Baum.
>
>
> I personally think [ l'arbre Tumtum ] would've been fine.
> (Note that "vorpal" is left unchanged.)
>
> I see that in French "Tumtum" would require the U-umlaut vowel.

Why??

[...]

--
Ubuntou,

Le Magicien