Elizabeth = Isabel in Spanish?
Curieux
I was asked by a friend why the Queen of England "Elizabeth II" was called
"Isabel II" in Spain.
Confessing my ignorance, I checked on Google how another famous Elisabeth,
the mother of John the Baptist, was called in Spanish and it seems she is
Isabel too.
I was told that the name "Elisabeth" had no translation in Spanish, is it
true and is it the only reason?
And why Isabel for Elisabeth??
Thanks in advance!
Thomas
Evertjan.
<http://www.worldzone.net/art/alternika/alias/e.html> shows:
Authorised New Testament spelling of the Biblical name for the mother of
John The Baptist (Luke 1:60), derived from Hebrew eli+sheva/sheba - "God
is my oath" "oath of God" - the final syllable under influence of Hebrew
shabbath - "sabbath" - etymologically equivalent to Elisheba. Other
sources have suggested her name may be derived from Hebrew eli+beth -
"house of God" but this is not as likely. Elisabeth is the Authorise New
Testament form of the name, and is popular as a royal family name
throughout Europe; in England and Western countries, the spelling
Elizabeth has become popular due to the successful reign of Queen
Elizabeth I (the Virgin Queen - 1533-1603) and in the 20th century due to
the Queen Elizabeth II (1926).
Elisabeth
Elizabeth (English)
Alzbeta (Czech), Ealasaid (Scottish Gaelic), Eilís (Irish Gaelic),
Elisabet (Scandinavian), Elisabetta (Italian), Elzbieta (Polish),
Erzsébet (Hungarian), Isabel (Spanish), Yelizaveta (Russian)
Isabel: Isabella (18th Century Latinate), Isabelle (French), Iseabail
(Scottish Gaelic), Ishbel (Anglicised Scottish), Isibéal, Sibéal (Irish
Gaelic), Isobel, Isbel (English)
Short: Bet, Bess, Beth, Eliza, Elsa, Liza, Lisa, Lisbet, Liz (English),
Ela (Polish), Élise, Lise (French), Elsa, Else, Ilse, Liese (German),
Elsa, Else, Lisa, Lise, Lis (Scandinavian), Elspeth (Scottish and English
contraction)
Alzbeta: Beta (Czech)
Isabel: Sabella (English)
Elsa: Else (Danish)
Lisa - Leesa (Modern)
Pet: Bessie, Bessy, Betty, Betsy, Tetty, Libby, Lizzie, Lizzy (English),
Beth (English), Elli, Lili, Lilli (German), Lisette (French)
Alzbeta: Betka, Betuska (Czech)
Isabel: Beileag (Scottish Gaelic), Izzie, Izzy (English)
Elspeth: Elspie (Scottish and English): Elsie (English)
Beth: Bethan (Welsh)
Lili, Lilli - Lillian, Lilian (16th century English)
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
John Woodgate
(in <405df9bf$0$282$626a...@news.free.fr>) about 'Elizabeth = Isabel in
Spanish?', on Sun, 21 Mar 2004:
>I was asked by a friend why the Queen of England "Elizabeth II" was
>called "Isabel II" in Spain. Confessing my ignorance, I checked on
>Google how another famous Elisabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, was
>called in Spanish and it seems she is Isabel too. I was told that the
>name "Elisabeth" had no translation in Spanish, is it
>true and is it the only reason?
No, it is not true. The translation is 'Isabel'.
>And why Isabel for Elisabeth??
They are fundamentally the same name, changed by transmission along
different routes to the present day.
You might as well ask why the name 'John' doesn't exist in German. It
does, but it's 'Hans'. It also exists in numerous other languages, but
not spelt 'John'. The same applies to many other names.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
Murgi
> Elizabeth (English)
> Alzbeta (Czech), Ealasaid (Scottish Gaelic), Eil﨎 (Irish Gaelic),
> Elisabet (Scandinavian), Elisabetta (Italian), Elzbieta (Polish),
Can you please tell us the Internet source where you got all these names
from. I don't assume that you have collected them from various sources and
the compiled here yourself.
Murgi
Hanna Burdon
news:7116f088a270a67d...@news.secureusenet.com...
> Can you please tell us the Internet source where you got all these names
> from.
http://www.worldzone.net/art/alternika/alias/e.html
Hania
Evertjan.
Please re-read my posting, the source is shown.
Murgi
> > names from. I don't assume that you have collected them from various
> > sources and the compiled here yourself.
>
> Please re-read my posting, the source is shown.
Ooops, I missed it since it was mentioned on the first line!:-)
João Luiz
John Woodgate schrieb:
> You might as well ask why the name 'John' doesn't exist in German. It
> does, but it's 'Hans'.
Or Johann or Johannes (from which Hans was shortened).
> It also exists in numerous other languages, but
> not spelt 'John'. The same applies to many other names.
And some don't have even the minimal resemblance: James = Tiago
JL
Haluk Skywalker
news:c3m66o$kic$1...@piggy.rz.tu-ilmenau.de...
Or John = Yahya (Turkish)...
Fernando Moreiras (Rosetta)
is "Isabel". We call the English Queen Isabel II.
Curiously, the only two reigning queens in Spanish history were both called
Isabel, one in the 15th century (Isabel I de Castilla) and other in the 19th
century (Isabel II de Borbón).
I've recently heard that this change comes probably from the false idea some
Medieval writers had that "El" was the article... "El-isabeth" > "Isabeth"
>"Isabel". Yes, true, it's a feminine name and a masculine article, but
Medieval Iberian texts are full of gender changes. It's commonplace to find
that a troubador calls his beloved lady "mía señor"...
FM
"Curieux" <Cur...@nospam.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:405df9bf$0$282$626a...@news.free.fr...
Yusuf B Gursey
which is from muslim arabic yaHya" (pre-classical *yaHyay, *yaHyai,
consonantal skeleton yHyy), in turn (best explanation) from a Hebrew
(?) diminutive form yoHyai , attetsted in amn early 1st. millenium
syrian,
pre-islamic inscription (C. Rabin "Ancient West Arabian").
Yusuf B Gursey
> Curieux wrote on 21 mrt 2004 in sci.lang.translation:
>
> > I was asked by a friend why the Queen of England "Elizabeth II" was
> > called "Isabel II" in Spain.
> > Confessing my ignorance, I checked on Google how another famous
> > Elisabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, was called in Spanish and
> > it seems she is Isabel too.
> > I was told that the name "Elisabeth" had no translation in Spanish, is
> > it true and is it the only reason?
> > And why Isabel for Elisabeth??
> >
>
> <http://www.worldzone.net/art/alternika/alias/e.html> shows:
>
> Authorised New Testament spelling of the Biblical name for the mother of
greek Elisabet
Yusuf B Gursey
: which is from muslim arabic yaHya" (pre-classical *yaHyay, *yaHyai,
: consonantal skeleton yHyy), in turn (best explanation) from a Hebrew
: (?) diminutive form yoHyai , attetsted in amn early 1st. millenium
sorry, yoHai
: syrian,
Yusuf B Gursey
interesting.
Yusuf B Gursey
> In sci.lang Yusuf B Gursey <y...@theworld.com> wrote in <222ae656.04032...@posting.google.com>:
>
> : which is from muslim arabic yaHya" (pre-classical *yaHyay, *yaHyai,
christian arabic uses yu:Hanna: (Gr. Io:anne:s) for the Baptist, and
as a proper name, and arabic general for foreign John, such as for
Popes.
yu:Hanna:n or yu:Ha:na:n for the OT Johanan (Heb. yo:HAnAn LXX Ioanan)
Tsu Dho Nimh
>Hello all,
>
>I was asked by a friend why the Queen of England "Elizabeth II" was called
>"Isabel II" in Spain.
Spanish writers habitually translate non-Spanish names into the
Spanish equivalent wherever possible. Elizabeth = Isabel
English tends to not translate foreign names, otherwise we would
have King Peter of Castile and John Charles of Spain.
Tsu Dho Nimh
--
When businesses invoke the "protection of consumers," it's a lot like
politicians invoking morality and children - grab your wallet and/or
your kid and run for your life.
Alan Crozier
news:405df9bf$0$282$626a...@news.free.fr...
> Hello all,
>
> I was asked by a friend why the Queen of England "Elizabeth II" was called
> "Isabel II" in Spain.
> Confessing my ignorance, I checked on Google how another famous Elisabeth,
> the mother of John the Baptist, was called in Spanish and it seems she is
> Isabel too.
> I was told that the name "Elisabeth" had no translation in Spanish, is it
> true and is it the only reason?
I'm sure Spanish history books will tell you that her father was Enrique
VIII and that she was succeeded by Jacobo I of England and VI of Scotland,
whose son Carlos I was beheaded.
In English we do similar things to the names of foreign rulers. Or do you
really think the pope calls himself John Paul?
Alan
John Woodgate
<alan.c...@telia.com> wrote (in <dVa8c.53335$mU6.2...@newsb.telia.n
et>) about 'Elizabeth = Isabel in Spanish?', on Wed, 24 Mar 2004:
>In English we do similar things to the names of foreign rulers. Or do
>you really think the pope calls himself John Paul?
>
I think popes are an exception. We don't translate the names of foreign
nobility. It might give the impression that they are English gentlemen.
(;-)
Alan Crozier
news:GWZ0j9CR...@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
> I read in sci.lang.translation that Alan Crozier
> <alan.c...@telia.com> wrote (in <dVa8c.53335$mU6.2...@newsb.telia.n
> et>) about 'Elizabeth = Isabel in Spanish?', on Wed, 24 Mar 2004:
>
> >In English we do similar things to the names of foreign rulers. Or do
> >you really think the pope calls himself John Paul?
>
> >
> I think popes are an exception. We don't translate the names of foreign
> nobility. It might give the impression that they are English gentlemen.
> (;-)
Not living nobility at least, but names of historical figures, especially
kings, tend to be translated. Gustavus Adolphus is the normal English name
for Gustav II Adolf, but no one would call the present king Charles
Gustavus.
Alan
Yusuf B Gursey
: I read in sci.lang.translation that Alan Crozier
: <alan.c...@telia.com> wrote (in <dVa8c.53335$mU6.2...@newsb.telia.n
: et>) about 'Elizabeth = Isabel in Spanish?', on Wed, 24 Mar 2004:
:>In English we do similar things to the names of foreign rulers. Or do
:>you really think the pope calls himself John Paul?
:>
: I think popes are an exception. We don't translate the names of foreign
I guess because they are supposed to be above ethnic groupings.
: nobility. It might give the impression that they are English gentlemen.
: (;-)
Fernando Moreiras (Rosetta)
"Juan Sebastián Bach" or "Carlos Dickens"). Now that usage is changing, and
we leave the original name ("Johann Sebastian Bach", "Charles Dickens"),
EXCEPT for kings and prominent historical figures (Juan Pablo II, Isabel II
de Inglaterra, Guillermo de Orange, Mahoma... but George Bush, Tony Blair,
Jacques Chirac, Sergei Bubka...). The old usage comes from the autarchy
years of Franco's regime, when all things foreing were devilish...
FM
Harlan Messinger
>"Curieux" <Cur...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I was asked by a friend why the Queen of England "Elizabeth II" was called
>>"Isabel II" in Spain.
>
>Spanish writers habitually translate non-Spanish names into the
>Spanish equivalent wherever possible. Elizabeth = Isabel
>
>English tends to not translate foreign names, otherwise we would
>have King Peter of Castile and John Charles of Spain.
But we have a few, such as William of Orange, William the Conqueror,
Archduke Francis Ferdinand, the Russian tsars and empresses (Peter the
Great, Catherine the Great, Nicholas I and II), and Christopher
Columbus. Not to mention, again, all the popes.
--
Harlan Messinger
Remove the first dot from my e-mail address.
Veuillez ôter le premier point de mon adresse de courriel.
Anthony J. Bryant
> English tends to not translate foreign names, otherwise we would
> have King Peter of Castile and John Charles of Spain.
I beg to differ -- at least in the historical milieu... sometimes... My history
books and encyclopedia are full of references to "Emperor Henry" and Johns and
so on. Actually, though, it's very schizophrenically done. There's no
consistency, and while we talk about "Henry at Canossa" we also talk about
Wilhelm the kaiser.
Sigh.
Tony
Edgar De Blieck
: I beg to differ -- at least in the historical milieu...
sometimes... My history
: books and encyclopedia are full of references to "Emperor
Henry" and Johns and
: so on. Actually, though, it's very schizophrenically done.
There's no
: consistency, and while we talk about "Henry at Canossa" we also
talk about
: Wilhelm the kaiser.
:
I'm writing a thesis on fifteenth century Burgundy, and although
I translate the names of the dukes (Philip the Good for Philippe
le Bon, Charles the Bold for Charles le Hardi), I leave the
courtiers alone. At least, I do when they're in French - if they
were predominantly Francophone, that is. But if they were rulers
of a Dutch or German speaking area, I'll sometimes use their
Dutch name, as the one that appears most often in the documents,
unless a more commonly cited French version appears in other
people's indexes. I change titles to English equivalents: Marquis
for Margrave; Duke for Duc/Hertoghe, etc. However, if I'm citing
or quoting someone else's rendering of a name, I'll leave it in
the form they used, and add footnotes if needed. If it is an
original archival document, I leave the name and the spelling as
I find it. This leads to interesting onomastic variations. For
instance Waleran lord of Wavrin wrote his own name Walleran
seigneur de Wavrin, but other clerks wrote it Vavrin, Vaulverin,
Waurin etc. When I come across Latin, I translate, except where
I can't work out what the name would be. But I don't always
translate into English. Thus Leonii becomes Loenys, for the canon
of Saint Gudule Church, Walter Loenys. He also called himself
Gautier Lounis. Go figure.
EDEB.
John Woodgate
<Debl...@btopenworld.com> wrote (in <c5uh1k$ekn$1...@titan.btinternet.com>
) about 'Elizabeth = Isabel in Spanish?', on Sun, 18 Apr 2004:
>I'm writing a thesis on fifteenth century Burgundy,
Surely it's not still drinkable? (;-)
> But I don't always
>translate into English. Thus Leonii becomes Loenys, for the canon
>of Saint Gudule Church, Walter Loenys. He also called himself
>Gautier Lounis. Go figure.
Did 'Leonii' become 'Loenys' or 'Leonys'? Or has the Latin form the
transposed vowels?
Edgar De Blieck
:
: Did 'Leonii' become 'Loenys' or 'Leonys'? Or has the Latin
form the
: transposed vowels?
: --
Loenys is a name still current in Dutch onomastics. Latinists did
strange things.
EDEB.