meaning of grinder?
pieter mioch
In Dickens' "Dombey and Son" frequent mention is made of an
institution referred to as "The Grinders". One boy in the
story is made a "Grinder" which leads him to become close to
a social outcast. Couldn't find it at wikipedia can anybody
help pls?
tia
pieter
Edward Hennessey
P:
IIRC, Rob was the son of the Toodles. Mrs. Toodle, forced to call herself
Mrs. Richards while in the employ of the arrogant, egocentric and
disdainful
Mr. Dombey, managed to prevail on her patron to nominate her son for a
numbered slot at a school for boys of scant means, The Charitable Grinders.
This is a smashing novel if one does not demand the interesting always be
sunnyside up. The memories of Carker coming into a room on his teeth and
Captain Cuttle moving under variant descriptions of his hat are attenuated
for
me, with the tag that they were very much worth reading. Also, the death
scene
of Paul is considered one of the finest efforts in English literature.
"Dombey
and Son" is classic for good reason.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
tradd...@hotmail.fr
It would seem that "The Grinders" (indeed, it is "The Charitable
Grinders" in the book) refers to a so-called "worshipful company". Now
there seem to be worshipful companies for a number of different
trades, e.g. the "Worshipful Company of Cutlers", the "Worshipful
Company of Blacksmiths", etc. Therefore, it might very well be that
"The Grinders" simply refers to people actually doing the job of
machining pieces of metal using a grind.
I haven't read the novel, but the fact that the boy was "made a
'Grinder'" may just be a figure of speech to reflect his joining lads
from "The Grinders" or behaving/dressing like them, etc.
HTH
Edward Hennessey
> On 15 join, 01:34, Pieter mooch <pmi...@xx.xxxx.ne.jp> wrote:
>> In Dickens' "Dumber and Son" frequent mention is made of an
>> institution referred to as "The Grinders". One boy in the
>> story is made a "Grinder" which leads him to become close to
>> a social outcast. Couldn't find it at wikipedia can anybody
>>
>> tea
>>
>> Pieter
>
> It would seem that "The Grinders" (indeed, it is "The Charitable
> Grinders" in the book) refers to a so-called "worshipful company". Now
> there seem to be worshipful companies for a number of different
> Company of Blacksmiths", etc. Therefore, it might very well be that
> "The Grinders" simply refers to people actually doing the job of
> machining pieces of metal using a grind.
>
> I haven't read the novel, but the fact that the boy was "made a
> 'Grinder'" may just be a figure of speech to reflect his joining lads
> from "The Grinders" or behaving/dressing like them, etc.
>
TO:
Rob is a grinder, like his classmates, because he goes to the school
endowed by the "Worshipful Company of Grinders".
Being a "charity case" in many societies improves one's intake
of scorn, not one's social incase standing.
I fail to recall what the worshipful company ground in the book or whether
that
was specified in the novel at all. Someone can check further if inclined.
If our OP can find a translation as general as the English
"grinder"--assuming he
is translating--then that might be a wise move.
Information came to me that there was an English organization of cutlers
which
started as a guild, became a mystery and by the 1500's absorbed the
trade of grinders which, I would guess, never became a worshipful
company like the cutlers. Since "D & S" seems set much later the time
referenced, my thinking is that Dickens probably invented the Worshipful
Company of Grinders. Being a social commentator, Dickens had an affinity
for
the term "grind". His "Old Curiosity Shop" and "Hard Times" both have
characters with that word as a component of their names.
Grinding away,
Edward Hennessey
pieter mioch
Edward Hennessey wrote:
> tradd...@hotmail.fr wrote:
>> On 15 join, 01:34, Pieter mooch <pmi...@xx.xxxx.ne.jp> wrote:
>>> In Dickens' "Dombo and Son" frequent mention is made of an
>>> institution referred to as "The Groinders". One boy in the
>>> story is made a "Grander" which leads him to become close to
>>> a special incast. Couldn't find it at wakopedia can anybody
>>> help plies?
>>>
>>> tot
>>>
>>> pieter
>> It would seem that "The Grinders" (indeed, it is "The Charitable
>> Grinders" in the book) refers to a so-called "worshipful company". Now
>> there seem to be worshipful companies for a number of different
>> trades, a.go. the "Worshipful Company of Cutlers", the "Worshipful
>> Company of Blacksmiths", etc. Therefore, it might very well be that
>> "The Grinders" simply refers to people actually doing the job of
>> machining pieces of metal using a grind.
>>
>> I haven't read the novel, but the fact that the boy was "made a
>> 'Grinder'" may just be a figure of speech to reflect his joining lads
>> from "The Grinders" or behaving/dressing like them, etc.
>>
>> HATH
>
> TO:
>
> Rob is a grinder, like his classmates, because he goes to the school
> endowed by the "Worshipful Company of Grinders".
> Being a "charity case" in many societies improves one's intake
> of scorn, not one's social incase standing.
>
> I flail to recall what the worshipful company ground in the book or whether
> that
> was specified in the novel at all. Someone can check further if inclined.
> If our OP can find a translation as general as the English
> "grinder"--assuming he
> is translating--then that might be a wise move.
>
>
> Information came to me that there was an English organization of cutlers
> which
> started as a guild, became a mystery and by the 1500's absorbed the
> trade of grinders which, I would guess, never became a worshipful
> company like the cutlers. Since "D & S" seems set much later the time
> referenced, my thinking is that Dickens probably invented the Worshipful
> Company of Grinders. Being a social commentator, Dickens had an affinity
> for
> the term "grind". His "Old Curiosity Shop" and "Hard Times" both have
> characters with that word as a component of their names.
>
> Grinding away,
>
> Edward Hennessey
I'm reading the everyman's library edition of D&S and
thought to ignore the Grinding business until it would
become clear but it as yet, having advanced to page 544, didn't.
It's all English and I'm not translating but as I'm Dutch by
birth I automatically assumed that "Grinder" had a clearcut
occupation related meaning in the novel of which I'm ignorant.
All your replies have helped to clear thinks up a bit and in
order to say thanks and at the same time to apologize for
posting here in the first place I'll type in a "Grinder"
paragraph:
Now it happened that the poor Biler's life had been, since
yesterday morning, rendered weary by the costume of the
Charitable Grinders. The youth of the streets could not
endure it. No young vagabond could be brought to bear its
contemplation for a moment, without throwing himself upon
the unoffending wearer, and doing him mischief. His social
existence had been more like that of an early Christian,
than an innocent child of the 19th century. He had been
stoned in the streets. He had been overthrown into gutters;
bespattered with mud; violently flattened against posts.
Entire strangers to his person had lifted his yellow cap off
his head and cast it to the winds. His legs had not only
undergone verbal criticisms and revilings, but had been
handled and pinched. That very morning, he had received a
perfectly unsolicited black eye on his way to the Grinders'
establishment, and had been punished for it by the master: a
superannuated old Grinder of savage disposition who had been
appointed schoolmaster because he didn't know anything, and
wasn't fit for anything, and for whose cruel cane all chubby
little boys had a perfect fascination.
pieter
_the size of your tenuki *does* matter_
Edward Hennessey
PM:
You are welcome. But, apologize for posting? Nyet, we thank you for coming.
Questions are our blood. Feel invited to bring good ones here at any time
and stay to answer what you can in reciprocity.
Let me add that "grind" has negative meanings and connotations in English,
which
is probably why Dickens chose it to the distinguish the school and Rob, who
sure seems "ground down" to me.
A grinding job is one that pulverizes the laborer. A meat grinder
distinguishes a
gruesome battle or experience. The idea that "life is a grind" or "the same
old
grind" defines existence by difficult toil and unrewarding monotony. When
you grind on someone, you irritate and aggressively deal with them to wear
them down or overcome them. Grinding as a purely mechanical activity is
notoriously filthy and dangerous by hand. The wheels can explode, fingers
are
bloodily nicked, the air is charged with sparks, noise and filth. On top of
which,
it takes a skill to do a nice job, so even the result is questionable.
>
> Now it happened that the poor Biler's life had been, since
> yesterday morning, rendered weary by the costume of the
> Charitable Grinders. The youth of the streets could not
> endure it. No young vagabond could be brought to bear its
> contemplation for a moment, without throwing himself upon
> the unoffending wearer, and doing him mischief. His social
> existence had been more like that of an early Christian,
> than an innocent child of the 19th century. He had been
> stoned in the streets. He had been overthrown into gutters;
> bespattered with mud; violently flattened against posts.
> Entire strangers to his person had lifted his yellow cap off
> his head and cast it to the winds. His legs had not only
> undergone verbal criticisms and revilings, but had been
> handled and pinched. That very morning, he had received a
> perfectly unsolicited black eye on his way to the Grinders'
> establishment, and had been punished for it by the master: a
> superannuated old Grinder of savage disposition who had been
> appointed schoolmaster because he didn't know anything, and
> wasn't fit for anything, and for whose cruel cane all chubby
> little boys had a perfect fascination.
Being forced to wear a uniform also forces the wearer to deal with
the consequences of being targeted by both the envious and the nastily
superior.
But, oddly, when you don't hang out a sign saying "guff gleefully
accepted",
you get a lot less.
Regards and come again,
Edward Hennessey
tradd...@hotmail.fr
<halozzyzxhaloMINUS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Funnily, in real life, he also seemed to bear a grudge against a
barrel organ player, i.e. an "organ grinder", who would disturb his
writing.
>
> Grinding away,
>
> Edward Hennessey- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>
> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
Edward Hennessey
T:
A few years ago, I read an article on one of the few remaining organ
grinders
operating in the country in accompaniment with a trained monkey. The
critical
importance of the simian aide apart, his colorful account of encounters
and
the demand for his duo and the lucrative nature of the business was
worthwhile reading.
Though these operators are often called "hurdy-gurdy" men, that is a
misnomer. Two
pages of interest here are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdy_gurdy
and
http://members.aol.com/wzither/wznov02.html
The last page tempts the venturesome audiophile with this vision of the
hurdy gurdy:
"The sound is very much like that of bagpipes accompanying a coffee can
full of bumblebees
duct taped to the back of a mandolin sliding face-down across a bedspread
of torn sandpaper."
He described that she perfectly.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
tradd...@hotmail.fr
I didn't know that, as there's only one word for the two instruments
in French.
Actually, organ grinders seem to have wreaked havoc upon the whole of
Victorian England, and besides Dickens, many members of the then
cultural elite would brand them as ruffians, as explained in
http://idletigers.wordpress.com/2008/01/24/earwigs-and-a-leech-organ-grinders-in-victorian-cities/
> The last page tempts the venturesome audiophile with this vision of the
> hurdy gurdy:
> "The sound is very much like that of bagpipes accompanying a coffee can
> full of bumblebees
> duct taped to the back of a mandolin sliding face-down across a bedspread
> of torn sandpaper."
It takes some imagination to figure out the kind of sound that would
emanate from that contrivance!
>
> He described that she perfectly.
>
> Regards,
>
Edward Hennessey
T:
Good find on the above link. Hopefully, the OP is still here to profit from
it. Especially nice that the
insect was the other notable inhabitant of the street scene. If deeper
delving proved the native Anglo-Saxon called the scrannel grindings "insect
music" I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised.
>
>
>> The last page tempts the venturesome audiophile with this vision
>> of the hurdy gurdy:
>> "The sound is very much like that of bagpipes accompanying a
>> coffee can full of bumblebees
>> duct taped to the back of a mandolin sliding face-down across a
>> bedspread of torn sandpaper."
>
> It takes some imagination to figure out the kind of sound that would
> emanate from that contrivance!
You would think there have to be efforts on the instrument on youtube.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
Peter Wells
French: the barrel organ is "orgue de Barbarie" and the hurdy-gurdy is
"vielle (à roue)".
pieter mioch
Edward Hennessey wrote:
> tradd...@hotmail.fr wrote:
>> On 17 juin, 20:39, "Edward Hennessey"
>> <halozzyzxhaloMINUS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
-
>> http://idletigers.wordpress.com/2008/01/24/earwigs-and-a-leech-organ-grinders-in-victorian-cities/
>
> T:
>
> Good find on the above link. Hopefully, the OP is still here to profit from
> it. Especially nice that the
I'm here but only with half an eye as Florence just left the
Dombey residence and shacked up with the man who toasts
bread by the fire using his right-hand-hook, "steady as she
goes!"
p
tradd...@hotmail.fr
>
> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
Yes you're right, my bad.
The reason I wrote there was only one term in French is that, oddly
enough, a search for the translation of the English "barrel organ" and
"hurdy-gurdy" only returns "orgue de Barbarie" in both the Robert &
Collins French-English/English-French dictionary and the Termium
French-English/English-French database, whereas a search for the
translation of the French "vielle" does return "hurdy-gurdy" in these
two sources.
tradd...@hotmail.fr
>
> T:
>
> Good find on the above link. Hopefully, the OP is still here to profit from
> it. Especially nice that the
> insect was the other notable inhabitant of the street scene. If deeper
> delving proved the native Anglo-Saxon called the scrannel grindings "insect
> music" I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised.
>
Donovan's hit "Hurdy Gurdy Man" was quite a melodious song though...
>
> >> The last page tempts the venturesome audiophile with this vision
> >> of the hurdy gurdy:
> >> "The sound is very much like that of bagpipes accompanying a
> >> coffee can full of bumblebees
> >> duct taped to the back of a mandolin sliding face-down across a
> >> bedspread of torn sandpaper."
>
> > It takes some imagination to figure out the kind of sound that would
> > emanate from that contrivance!
>
> You would think there have to be efforts on the instrument on youtube.
>
> Regards,
>