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Tussenvoegsel NL-EN

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Jehannes

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Dec 30, 2002, 4:19:36 AM12/30/02
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Hello,
What is the English word for 'tussenvoegsel', e.g. the 'van' in a name like
'van Dijk'? In Dutch this is not part of the 'real' name and not used in
sorting names alphabetically. Van Dale has 'insertion'.
Thanks in advance,
Jehannes


--
John Degen
dee...@xs4allWITHOUTTHIS.nl

= =
Sane sicut lux seipsam, & tenebras manifestat, sic veritas norma sui, &
falsi est.
-Spinoza-
= =

Frank Lekens

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Dec 30, 2002, 4:55:04 AM12/30/02
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In article <3e100fa7$0$147$e4fe...@dreader7.news.xs4all.nl>,
dee...@xs4allWITHOUTTHIS.nl says...

> Hello,
> What is the English word for 'tussenvoegsel', e.g. the 'van' in a name like
> 'van Dijk'? In Dutch this is not part of the 'real' name and not used in
> sorting names alphabetically. Van Dale has 'insertion'.

Actually, Van Dale has 'infix' for the *linguistic* meaning of
tussenvoegsel. But a tussenvoegsel/infix is something else: it's an
affix that is inserted *into* the word and thus becomes part of it. (As
in un-bloody-believable... ? :-)

The Dutch additions to names like 'van' or 'van de', if spelled
separately (because 'Vandenboogaard' and 'van den Boogaard' are *both*
possible [and different] names), are more like ordinary function words
rather than affixes.

Maybe there is a grammatical label for these type of words in this
context, but I don't know of one. Maybe the blanket term particle will
do (also depending on what you need the term for)?
--
Frank Lekens
operamail.com is where it's really @

Jehannes

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Dec 30, 2002, 5:00:18 AM12/30/02
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Frank Lekens <kraz...@operamail.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.187a36638...@news.xs4all.nl:

Thank you.:-) I need the word for a translation of a web form (Initials,
Last name etc.). So particle is too vague, I think (although better than
the other meanings Van Dale has). Any other idea?

Frank Lekens

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Dec 30, 2002, 5:10:22 AM12/30/02
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In article <3e101932$0$137$e4fe...@dreader5.news.xs4all.nl>,
dee...@xs4allWITHOUTTHIS.nl says...

> > Maybe there is a grammatical label for these type of words in this
> > context, but I don't know of one. Maybe the blanket term particle will
> > do (also depending on what you need the term for)?
>
> Thank you.:-) I need the word for a translation of a web form (Initials,
> Last name etc.). So particle is too vague, I think (although better than
> the other meanings Van Dale has). Any other idea?

For a web form, I would just leave it out. Do Dutch forms actually
reserve a separate space for these thingies? Off the top of my head,
I'd say they don't. I just looked at a web form on the Postbank site,
and they even have only one field for "Voorletters en naam".

And if some forms do and some don't have a separate field for this, I
think you never miss it when it's not there. You just add the particles
to the 'last name' field when you fill in the form.

(Not that I have any actual experience with such linguisting appendages
myself, of course...)

Frank Lekens

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Dec 30, 2002, 5:11:07 AM12/30/02
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In article <MPG.187a39f6e...@news.xs4all.nl>,
kraz...@operamail.invalid says...

> (Not that I have any actual experience with such linguisting

Sigh. LinguistiC, I mean.

Evertjan.

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Dec 30, 2002, 5:26:00 AM12/30/02
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Frank Lekens wrote on 30 Dec 2002 in sci.lang.translation:
> For a web form, I would just leave it out. Do Dutch forms actually
> reserve a separate space for these thingies? Off the top of my head,
> I'd say they don't.

If you want to sort automaticly on family names the Dutch way:

"Jan van Mook"

precedes:

"Piet de Vries Lentz"

because Mook precedes Vries.

[Please see a Dutch telephone directory]

That is the mean reason for having a seperate computer form entry.

======================

btw: I would call it a "voorvoegsel", English: "prefix",
of the family name.

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

Toby OCM

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Dec 30, 2002, 5:38:45 AM12/30/02
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In article <Xns92F47450...@213.51.144.65>,
exjxw.ha...@interxnl.net says...

>
> [Please see a Dutch telephone directory]
>
> That is the mean reason for having a seperate computer form entry.
>
> ======================
>
> btw: I would call it a "voorvoegsel", English: "prefix",
> of the family name.
>


The English phonebook calls them 'prefixes' too. But there is no formal
system for voorvoegsels in the UK, because they are far less common. The
only native forms of 'van' are the Irish O' and the Scottish and Irish
Mac/Mc, and they are incorporated in the surname. I would omit a
separate voorvoegsels section for Anglo-Saxon countries.

--
Regards

Toby
--

Christmas presence? www.e-iota.co.uk

Everything turns out right in the end. If it's not right, it's not the
end yet.

Jehannes

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Dec 30, 2002, 6:51:38 AM12/30/02
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Toby OCM <to...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
news:MPG.187a3290c...@news.cis.dfn.de:

> In article <Xns92F47450...@213.51.144.65>,
> exjxw.ha...@interxnl.net says...
>
>>
>> [Please see a Dutch telephone directory]
>>
>> That is the mean reason for having a seperate computer form entry.
>>
>> ======================
>>
>> btw: I would call it a "voorvoegsel", English: "prefix",
>> of the family name.
>>
>
>
> The English phonebook calls them 'prefixes' too. But there is no
> formal system for voorvoegsels in the UK, because they are far less
> common. The only native forms of 'van' are the Irish O' and the
> Scottish and Irish Mac/Mc, and they are incorporated in the surname.
> I would omit a separate voorvoegsels section for Anglo-Saxon
> countries.
>

Thanks everyone, I'll advice the client to leave the field out of the
English form.

Regards

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