sore wa sore de
James Daughtry
yet I can't seem to translate anything meaningful out of it. Could
someone explain what "sore wa sore de" means please? I'm trying to
make sense of Japanese without the help of someone who knows it, so
please excuse the simple question.
Curt Fischer
I said it is like an emphasized version of "de wa" or "sore ja" or
expressions like that. I think I hear it as almost kind of a filler,
when people are still thinking about the implications of whatever "sore"
is and trying to decide what to say next. It also makes me think of
"soshitara". Hopefully a NSoJ could advise me whether that association
is valid or not.
All the most fluent English speakers I know report that their biggest
difficulty is properly using connective words like "however",
"therefore", "thus", "on the other hand" etc. It's a big pain for me,
as a Japanese learner, too.
(That means much or all of what I told you about "sore wa sore de" might
be totally wrong.)
--
Curt Fischer
Cindy
Please give us a sentence or a whole paragraph containing "sore wa sore
de". I suspect it is not simple as you think. The first "sore" must be
an idea that will contradict or be against the idea which comes second.
Curt Fischer
Curt Fischer wrote:
> I said it is like an emphasized version of "de wa" or "sore ja" or
> expressions like that.
"I said..."?? That's not what I meant. Oopsie. But the keys s-a-i-d
aren't really near t-h-i-n-k, so I'd better keep my mouth shut.
--
Curt Fischer
Daniel Giaimo
news:3EA6B527...@aol.com...
I can give you an example of "kore ha kore de", which has been
confusing me for a while, but I don't know if it means the same thing
as "sore ha sore de". The example is the following scene from a four
box manga called "Azumanga Daiou":
Box 1:
Osaka: Sensei...
Kimura-sensei: Nani ka na?
Box 2:
Osaka: Jokokousei suki tte Chiyo-chan ha dou nan desu ka?
Box 3:
(Kimura-sensei looks at Chiyo who seems very surprised/shocked.)
Box 4:
Kimura-sensei: Kore ha kore de.
Osaka: Naru hodo.
BTW, this dialogue makes more sense if you know that (1) Chiyo is a
ten-year-old female first-year high school student, (2) Kimura-sensei is
a very strange teacher who stated previously "JOKOKOUSEI TOKA SUKI
DAKARA!" when asked why he had become a high school teacher, and (3)
Osaka is another female first-year high school student who is always
coming out with very strange statements/questions. But even knowing
that I still can't figure out what that "kore ha kore de" means. Any
ideas?
--
Daniel Giaimo
Bart Mathias
Until I saw Cindy's response, I was all set to say this is a
subject-changer, like "sore-wa sate oki" or "be that as it may."
But I guess it's just a figment of our imaginations. Not the first
time, for me.
Bart
Cindy
> I can give you an example of "kore ha kore de", which has been
> confusing me for a while, but I don't know if it means the same thing
> as "sore ha sore de". The example is the following scene from a four
> box manga called "Azumanga Daiou":
There are more than one way to solve the problems, sure! Let's take a
look at one by one.
> Box 1:
> Osaka: Sensei...
> Kimura-sensei: Nani ka na?
>
> Box 2:
> Osaka: Jokokousei suki tte Chiyo-chan ha dou nan desu ka?
>
> Box 3:
> (Kimura-sensei looks at Chiyo who seems very surprised/shocked.)
>
> Box 4:
> Kimura-sensei: Kore ha kore de.
> Osaka: Naru hodo.
>
> BTW, this dialogue makes more sense if you know that (1) Chiyo is a
> ten-year-old female first-year high school student, (2) Kimura-sensei is
> a very strange teacher who stated previously "JOKOKOUSEI TOKA SUKI
> DAKARA!" when asked why he had become a high school teacher, and (3)
> Osaka is another female first-year high school student who is always
> coming out with very strange statements/questions. But even knowing
> that I still can't figure out what that "kore ha kore de" means. Any
> ideas?
So Kimura-sensei is making an excuse by saying "Kore ha kore ...
probably followed by something like:
1. betsu mondai dayo
2. iito omouyo
3. komatta naa
Would you describe what kind a girl Chiyo-chan is in the manga? I have
a feeling that Chiyo likes him very much or is very un-jokoukousei like.
In this case, "kore ha kore de..." is used to evade the conversation, I
think. But not final yet.
Carcall
Actually, I'd guess that's how it is, having all 26 episodes of the
Azumanga anime. This reminds me of a physical-exam-scene where Kagura
(the sporty type) comes out of the office, with Kimura waiting
(hungrily) outside. Kimura asks "How was it?", and gets back something
like "none of your business". Then Osaka comes out, Kimura adjusts his
glasses, and walks away muttering some similar comment. Osaka is
flatter than a snowboard, as you'll probably guess.
Frej Bjon - -
James Daughtry
> de". I suspect it is not simple as you think. The first "sore" must be
> an idea that will contradict or be against the idea which comes second.
I have no doubt there are subtle nuances that are completely beyond me
at this point. The sentence that confuses me is:
Sore wa sore de omoshiroi.
Cindy
> Actually, I'd guess that's how it is, having all 26 episodes of the
> Azumanga anime. This reminds me of a physical-exam-scene where Kagura
> (the sporty type) comes out of the office, with Kimura waiting
> (hungrily) outside. Kimura asks "How was it?", and gets back something
> like "none of your business". Then Osaka comes out, Kimura adjusts his
> glasses, and walks away muttering some similar comment. Osaka is
> flatter than a snowboard, as you'll probably guess.
I did some google research on Azumanga anime.
http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~pia/
I got Chiyo-chan's info as follows:
１０歳で高校生になった天才少女。
中身の成長はともかく、体の発育の遅さを気にしている節がある（ぉ
豪邸に住むお嬢様だったりするのだが、弁当は自分でつくるし、
夕食(朝食)の調理も当番制だったりする、
アットホームで小市民的なノリの家庭で毎日を過ごしているようだ。
普段はそんな素振りは見せないが、結構な負けず嫌い。
昨年の別荘に遊びに行ったとき、ゆかり先生に車に対するトラウマをつけられた。
So Kimura-sensei likes general mid teenage high school girls but
Chiyo-chan is a bit off his object (can you say that?).
That's why he couldn't give Osaka a straight answer. Well, it is
obvious that he doesn't think Chiyo is attractive to him. She is
probably too young.
Sore ha sore de sorenari ni... (or Kore ha kore de kore nari ni...) and
let the listener figure out the following sentence. It is effective
when you don't want to answer straight. You got to know this phrase if
you want to be a politician.
I couldn't find Osaka, though. What kind a girl is she?
Kevin Wayne Williams
Was this actually a reply to the message before it? If so, how?
KWW
Daniel Giaimo
> I did some google research on Azumanga anime.
>
> http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~pia/
>
> I got Chiyo-chan's info as follows:
>
> So Kimura-sensei likes general mid teenage high school girls but
> Chiyo-chan is a bit off his object (can you say that?).
That's sort of what I thought he meant, but I wasn't sure.
> That's why he couldn't give Osaka a straight answer. Well, it is
> obvious that he doesn't think Chiyo is attractive to him. She is
> probably too young.
>
> Sore ha sore de sorenari ni... (or Kore ha kore de kore nari ni...)
and
> let the listener figure out the following sentence. It is effective
> when you don't want to answer straight. You got to know this phrase
if
> you want to be a politician.
>
> I couldn't find Osaka, though. What kind a girl is she?
You couldn't find Osaka because the website above lists her
under her real name, 春日歩 (Kasuga Ayumu). This is somewhat
strange because she is almost never referred to as either "Kasuga"
or "Ayumu". She is almost always referred to by her nickname,
"Osaka".
--
Daniel Giaimo
Cindy
> Sore wa sore de omoshiroi.
It is not (adjective) but it is funny alone...
Picture we regular members have started a new thread. We have some
rules that poster must write something funny to this thread and
follow-ups have to be reflecting the previous article -- in other words,
you have to be on topic.
As usual, King of off-topic, Sean posts totally off-topic post(s). Some
people get upset and complain to him for being off-topic. On the other
hand, some people are highly amused by his post(s) because he has missed
the point and they are so funny. (mm? Is "very" better? )
Then you may say: Sean no kiji wa itsumono youni ofu topikku dakedo,
sore wa sore de omoshiroi.
Don't relax yet. This is only a beginning.
Cindy
>>So Kimura-sensei likes general mid teenage high school girls but
>>Chiyo-chan is a bit off his object (can you say that?).
>
>
> That's sort of what I thought he meant, but I wasn't sure.
Glad we agree.
> You couldn't find Osaka because the website above lists her
> under her real name, 春日歩 (Kasuga Ayumu). This is somewhat
> strange because she is almost never referred to as either "Kasuga"
> or "Ayumu". She is almost always referred to by her nickname,
> "Osaka".
Ah, thank you for additional info.
About Osaka (Kasuga Ayumu? Ayumi?)
１年生の時に、舞台となる学校に転校してきた和歌山生まれの大阪人。
身の回りのあらゆる物事に疑問を持ち、
常に真理を追い求める女子高生哲学者（ぉ
その過程に於いて飛び出した名言の数々が、我々読者の心を和ませる。
辛いモノと、炭酸系のジュースが苦手。勉強もスポーツも全部苦手（ぉ
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
今年も夏休みにマグネでバイトをしていたが、時給はアップせず。
１０歳のちよちゃんに５０円の差を付けられた（ぉ
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So Osaka has a good reason to be jealous with Chiyo-chan. Osaka must be
satisfied if Kimura-sensei doesn't pay special attention to Chiyo. She
dared to ask him such a question to put down Chiyo.
Gyve Turquoise
"Daniel Giaimo" <dgi...@rgiaimo.net> wrote in message
news:DgApa.195$7J2.28...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> BTW, this dialogue makes more sense if you know that (1) Chiyo is a
> ten-year-old female first-year high school student, (2) Kimura-sensei is
> a very strange teacher who stated previously "JOKOKOUSEI TOKA SUKI
> DAKARA!" when asked why he had become a high school teacher,
With my poor Japanese I can only guess, but I wonder if it isn't "joshi
koosei" = "joshi kookoo sei" "female high school students"? I don't know
"jokokousei".
> and (3)
> Osaka is another female first-year high school student who is always
> coming out with very strange statements/questions. But even knowing
> that I still can't figure out what that "kore ha kore de" means. Any
> ideas?
My first wild guess is that he wants to change the subject. A very literal
translation might be "As for this (kore wa), this is far enough (kore de)".
For example "kore de owari" = "That's all (folks)!".
Sean Holland
4/23/03 4:15 PM:
I...miss...the...point?? I am the King of Off-Topic. You are the Queen of
Miss-the-Point. When it comes to missing the point, I am a mere commoner
beside your august self. Please keep this straight.
Which reminds me. 世界での一番大きい鹿はムースです。
---
http://www.nowhereradio.com/seanholland/singles
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/456/sean_r_holland.html
Cindy
> Which reminds me. 世界での一番大きい鹿はムースです。
それはそれでわかるんだけど、やっぱり、
世界で一番大きい not 世界での・・・
だよね。
残念でした、またどうぞ。
ほんじゃ。
Ross Klatte
>Date: 2003-04-23 20:41 Eastern Daylight Time
>
>I...miss...the...point?? I am the King of Off-Topic. You are the Queen of
>Miss-the-Point. When it comes to missing the point, I am a mere commoner
>beside your august self. Please keep this straight.
We seem to have warped into alt.talk.royalty.attributed
His majesty Sean Holland, the King of Off Topic
Her majesty Cindy, the Queen of Miss the Point
His excellency Bart, the Duke of Deception
His excellency Charles Eicher, the Count of Comics
His excellency Michael Cash, the Viscount of Vulgar
His excellency Kevin Gowen II, the Baron of Boring
Kakka B. Ito, the Tonosama of Some Tunes
Ross
http://www.geocities.com/klatte_ross_a
"We all know that unmastered complexity is at the root of the misery"
-- Edsger W. Dijkstra
Gyve Turquoise
"Ross Klatte" <klatt...@aol.commmm> wrote in message
news:20030424074614...@mb-m11.aol.com...
> His majesty Sean Holland, the King of Off Topic
> Her majesty Cindy, the Queen of Miss the Point
> His excellency Bart, the Duke of Deception
> His excellency Charles Eicher, the Count of Comics
> His excellency Michael Cash, the Viscount of Vulgar
> His excellency Kevin Gowen II, the Baron of Boring
> Kakka B. Ito, the Tonosama of Some Tunes
But what about Prof. Jim Breen, what do his example sentences mean?
And that lad known as Kevin W. Williams, who posts such so very silly ones?
Or how about young Fischer, Curt, whose feelings are easily hurt?
And that fellow known as Paul Blay, whose topics are starting to stray.
Not to mention Sir Travers Naran, the man with a vocabulary plan.
There's also ol' Collin McCulley, he learns Japanese in a hurry.
And there's also that geezer Dave Fossett, his post in the bin you can toss
it.
And finally there's Klatte, Ross, the well-known sci.lang.japan boss.
Let's call him the slj master, although he's heading for disaster.
He's handing out titles a-plenty, but Klatte you will soon repent-y.
These holders of titles so nasty, will turn and become much more ghastly
They'll make posts so exceedingly boring, that everyone else will start
snoring.
And after we all stop reading, these idiots they will start breeding.
Kevin Gowen
>>From: Sean Holland seanh...@telus.net
>>Date: 2003-04-23 20:41 Eastern Daylight Time
>>
>>I...miss...the...point?? I am the King of Off-Topic. You are the Queen of
>>Miss-the-Point. When it comes to missing the point, I am a mere commoner
>>beside your august self. Please keep this straight.
>
>
> We seem to have warped into alt.talk.royalty.attributed
>
> His majesty Sean Holland, the King of Off Topic
> Her majesty Cindy, the Queen of Miss the Point
> His excellency Bart, the Duke of Deception
> His excellency Charles Eicher, the Count of Comics
> His excellency Michael Cash, the Viscount of Vulgar
> His excellency Kevin Gowen II, the Baron of Boring
Here I must disagree. I am clearly not boring. Indeed, the threads
started in my absense that speculated about the reason for my departure
and when I might return are evidence of my dynamic personality. Why, you
were so excited about my return that you started a thread anticipating
my arrival a full week ahead of schedule. You must have missed me the most.
Paul Blay
> Ross Klatte wrote:
>
> > We seem to have warped into alt.talk.royalty.attributed
> >
>
> Here I must disagree. I am clearly not boring.
Besides which, I have prior claim on the attribution of
spurious nobility in this case.
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=aotn3f%24u2%241%40newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk
Kevin Gowen
A much more accurate appellation. We can't blame Ross for faltering.
After all, his next birthday will be his 60th, and the old gray matter
ain't what she used to be.
Hey, remember Phil Healey/Nick Soltano?
- Kevin
Cindy
> And there's also that geezer Dave Fossett, his post in the bin you can toss
> it.
残念ながら反対です。
殆どのデーブさんの記事は短いんですが、デーブさんは日本のユーモアがよく分
かる人の一人だと思います。（３本の指に入るかな）
いつも日本語で冗談を投稿する時、どうせ日本人にしか分かんないだろうなーと
思いつつ投稿しますが、デーブさんがちゃんと分かってそれにぴったりのレスポ
ンスをくれますよ。
Cindy
> Her majesty Cindy, the Queen of Miss the Point
Her majesty Cindy, the Queen of Miss the Point Forgiver, to be exact.
Gyve Turquoise
"Cindy" <cind...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3EA832E...@aol.com...
> Gyve Turquoise wrote:
>
> > And there's also that geezer Dave Fossett, his post in the bin you can
toss
> > it.
>
> 残念ながら反対です。
>
> 殆どのデーブさんの記事は短いんですが、デーブさんは日本のユーモアがよく分
> かる人の一人だと思います。（３本の指に入るかな）
The meaning of the line is that Dave Fossett's posts are all "throwaway
remarks". Anyway, what else rhymes with "Fossett"? I was quite pleased with
this line.
rose
Ross Klatte wrote:
>
> Kakka B. Ito, the Tonosama of Some Tunes
爆！ うけた。。
□■ <:３ ）～
■楽猫 <:３ ）～