Re: "rin" honorific?
pef23
> Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
> cuteness?
>
> I just saw it claimed that "rin" is a cute form of "chan", but AFAIK that
> would be "chin". I thought changing a name to end in -rin (the examples
> given being Kaori -> Kaorin and Kimura -> Kimurin was just a cutesy way of
> talking, not any kind of actual honorific.
>
> --
> ______________________________________________
> Today is the first day of the rest of the mess
To start with I have say that I don't know the answer so you can stop
reading now if you think I am going to provide some great info :)
I was fascinated with your question cos I have always just assumed it
was the honourific for a princess but now you got me thinking. Wiki
just lists it as a pet name suffix and no other info is given.
I went through a few dictionaries but they don't even list the pet
name usage.
If I was to make a wild guess I might say that it has something to do
with the counter for flowers (just thinking of other proverb type
things in Japanese that refer to women as flowers - ryoute ni hana ga
iru, etc.). Kanji with an on-yomi of "rin" do seem to deal with
royalty sometimes but no direct relationship.
Anywho, I also look forward to someone giving a conclusive answer
here. If nothing good comes up in the next few days I will ask about
at Uni.
Chur,
Stefan.
B. Ito
"Gordon Freeman" <G...@valve.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns996D8...@213.239.142.64...
> Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
> cuteness?
>
> I just saw it claimed that "rin" is a cute form of "chan", but AFAIK that
> would be "chin". I thought changing a name to end in -rin (the examples
> given being Kaori -> Kaorin and Kimura -> Kimurin was just a cutesy way of
> talking, not any kind of actual honorific.
>
>
>
> --
> ______________________________________________
> Today is the first day of the rest of the mess
--------------------------------------------------------
I didn't think to the point that -rin is used as some honorific usage.
But now I think you can take it so.
In summary, I think, if you put certain suffixes like -chan, -rin, -tan,
-san, -kun, -don and many others, they would sound 'friendly' or you may
call it honorific.
Whereas, other suffixes like -bee, -me, -yarou, -(no)gaki, -(no)bakatare,
-(no)kusotare, -(no)tsurayogoshi etc. are scorful suffixes.
----------------------------
B. Ito
pef23
> pef23 <stefangr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 7 14 , 10:57, Gordon Freeman <G...@valve.invalid> wrote:
> >> Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
> >> cuteness?
>
> > was the honourific for a princess but now you got me thinking. Wiki
> > just lists it as a pet name suffix and no other info is given.
>
> I have seen tend to look rather dubious, reading as if they were mainly
> written by people whose knowledge of Japanese has been gleaned largely from
> watching anime fansubs.
>
> As for the connection of "rin" with princesses, I can't find any kanji
> connected with royalty which has that reading, which kanji did you have in
> mind? The only titles I have heard used with princesses are the obvious
> ones, "hime" and "hime-sama".
The Wiki site I was refering to was a Japanese language one so it was
probably correct in terms of usage, but I think there is scope for
investigating its derivations a little more closely.
The RIN kanji that came to mind was (thread; silk cord) as in:
(rinji - imperial order) (ringen - emperor's word; imperial
mandate). [sorry, I'm not sure if the kanji will make it through here
- I've had encoding problems] But now I think about it more it seems
like too much of a stretch to try and make any connections here.
Stefan
B. Ito
"Gordon Freeman" <G...@valve.invalid> wrote in message
> "B. Ito" <jg2...@wonder.ocn.ne.jp> wrote:
>>
>> I didn't think to the point that -rin is used as some honorific usage.
>> But now I think you can take it so.
>>
>> In summary, I think, if you put certain suffixes like -chan, -rin, -tan,
>> -san, -kun, -don and many others, they would sound 'friendly' or you may
>> call it honorific.
>>
>> Whereas, other suffixes like -bee, -me, -yarou, -(no)gaki, -(no)bakatare,
>> -(no)kusotare, -(no)tsurayogoshi etc. are scorful suffixes.
>
> honorifics and colloquial expressions? It seems that people might replace
> a
> normal honorific with almost any expression, and that some of these
> expressions become so popular that they attain the status of an honorific.
> For instance I have often heard people use "-nobaka", in English this is
> usually translated as "you idiot", but from your list it would appear that
> it is actually considered a sort of scornful honorofic by Japanese
> people.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know if the English "You idiot!" may mean two ways, good and bad
(scornful or honorific), but the Japanese '-nobaka' would mean two ways,
for example "-nobaka, I love you." and "-nobaka, I hate you."
"-nobakatare (or -nokusotare, tsurayogoshi, -nohajishirazu, -noyakkaimono,
-nobakamono etc.) is always followed by "......., I hate you."
Note: I should add that '-bee' may be special, because the suffix may be
used as a formal name of person in old style like 'Yasubee' (or Tokubee,
Masabee, Seebee etc.). As you know there are Nonbee and Sukebe(e),which
could be scornful or friendly address.
--------------------------------------
B. Ito
pef23
> Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
> cuteness?
>
> would be "chin". I thought changing a name to end in -rin (the examples
> given being Kaori -> Kaorin and Kimura -> Kimurin was just a cutesy way of
> talking, not any kind of actual honorific.
>
> --
> ______________________________________________
> Today is the first day of the rest of the mess
I did a bit of asking around at Uni and none of the "experts" seem to
know. In their opinion it is just slang that was started by a female
singer sometime around the early eighties - but don't quote me on
that.
Also the yearly Gendaiyogo dictionaries I looked at didn't have any
entries for that. I think the best way to find out would be to look
through Gendaiyogo's from the eighties.
Chur,
Stefan
massangeana
> Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
> cuteness?
>
> I just saw it claimed that "rin" is a cute form of "chan", but AFAIK that
> would be "chin". I thought changing a name to end in -rin (the examples
> given being Kaori -> Kaorin and Kimura -> Kimurin was just a cutesy way of
> talking, not any kind of actual honorific.
This article says that "-rin" first appeared in 1980s
and possibly comes from English (CatheRINE or MariLYN).
http://kotobakai.seesaa.net/article/8173861.html
>
> --
> ______________________________________________
> Today is the first day of the rest of the mess
massangeana
Ben Finney
> Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond
> random cuteness?
My local NSoJ tells me that's about the limit of it, with no
particular honorific meaning.
I wasn't able to get much of a definite pattern beyond "that sounds
right" or "that doesn't". Best estimate: It only works if it would be
euphonic to add or change the final syllable to become "-rin"; and
it's best if the name is already truncated in a cute way in a similar
way as when one would add "-chan".
So "akiko" can already become "akko", and this can become "akkorin";
or your example of "kimura" becomes "kimurin". But it wouldn't work
for "asuka"; apparently neither "asurin" nor "asukarin" are acceptable
usages.
--
\ "All progress has resulted from people who took unpopular |
`\ positions." -- Adlai Stevenson |
_o__) |
Ben Finney
Gordon Freeman
> Gordon Freeman <G...@valve.invalid> writes:
>
>> Is there such an honorific or suffix for a name as "rin" beyond random
>> cuteness?
>
> My local NSoJ tells me that's about the limit of it, with no
> particular honorific meaning.
>
> I wasn't able to get much of a definite pattern beyond "that sounds
> right" or "that doesn't". Best estimate: It only works if it would be
> euphonic to add or change the final syllable to become "-rin";
Euphonic: that's a good word, I think "euphonic suffix" would be a good
definition that sums up my own feelings about this too.
chance
"massangeana" <ez3k...@asahi-net.or.jp> wrote
> This article says that "-rin" first appeared in 1980s
> and possibly comes from English (CatheRINE or MariLYN).
>
> http://kotobakai.seesaa.net/article/8173861.html
At last, you shed light on what this thread has been all about.
I hadn't had any clue as to what they had been talking about
all along.
Thanks.