iwareru

[Robert Crandal]

Someone mentioned a while ago that the meaning
of "iwareru" is "(that) is been said" = "they say (that)".

Can anyone break down this verb into its components so
I understand the meaning better? I'm thinking this is a
form of the verb "iu" or 言う, and that "-reru" is
possibly a verb ending known as the "Potential";

Examples of Potential verb forms:

tabe-(ra)re-ru : can eat
oki-(ra)re-ru : can get up

Am I somewhat correct that "iwareru" is a form of
the "iu" verb mixed with the Potential ending?

[Chance]

Almost.

The 'reru' suffix has been orignally and presently
a passive suffix, which has evolved into a potential suffix.
So, 'iwareru' may be taken as to mean
both 'can be said' as well as 'is said'.

CK

[rbb...@gmail.com]

Look at your verb conjugation tables again. The potential form of "iu" is "ieru". For ichidan verbs (-iru,-eru), the potential and passive forms happen to coincide in form. This is not the case for godan verbs. Also note that not all -iru/-eru verbs are ichidan (shaberu/shabereru/shaberareru).

[Robert Crandal]

<rbb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> of "iwareru" is "(that) is been said" = "they say (that)".
>
>>

>> Look at your verb conjugation tables again. The potential form of "iu" is
>> "ieru". For ichidan verbs (-iru,-eru), the potential >> and passive forms
>> happen to coincide in form. This is not the case for godan verbs. Also
>> note that not all -iru/-eru verbs >> >> are ichidan
>> (shaberu/shabereru/shaberareru).

Right, the potential of "iu" is "ieru".

I still dont understand where the "iwa" comes from in "iwareru".
Is "iwa" the negative "stem" of "iu"???

[rbb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, July 15, 2013 5:17:40 PM UTC-4, Robert Crandal wrote:


> I still dont understand where the "iwa" comes from in "iwareru".
>
> Is "iwa" the negative "stem" of "iu"???

Yes. iu/iwanai, kau/kawanai, sakarau/sakarawanai. I suppose that "-wa" is used as the stem (rather than "-a") for euphony's sake, but I don't know for sure. You would have to ask a cunninger linguist than I about that.

[Robert Crandal]

<rbb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes. iu/iwanai, kau/kawanai, sakarau/sakarawanai. I suppose that "-wa" is
> used as the stem (rather than "-a") for euphony's > sake, but I don't know
> for sure. You would have to ask a cunninger linguist than I about that.
>

Okay, I found out that "iwareru" is the "Passive" form of "iu".

The following website has more information:
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/causepass

[Robert Crandal]

<rbb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes. iu/iwanai, kau/kawanai, sakarau/sakarawanai. I suppose that "-wa" is
> used as the stem (rather than "-a") for euphony's > sake, but I don't know
> for sure. You would have to ask a cunninger linguist than I about that.
>

BTW, Chance mentioned the "passive" form earlier, but I read
his post quickly and failed to notice.

Sorry about that Chance. I wasn't paying attention that you
gave me the answer all along. 8)

[Chance]

You can't ask why the passive and potential suffix of 'iu'
is 'wa' any more than you can't ask why 'spoken' is
the passive form of 'speak'.

However,'iwa' are potential as well as passive and negative
suffixes of 'iu'. That's the way it is.

Even the conditional suffix of 'iu' is 'iwa' in the case of 'iwaba'.

CK

[Chance]

Please ignore this post. For I posted this before reading your post
in which you acknowledged my submission about 'wa' being a passive suffix.

CK

[muchan]

I am not a linguist, but if you consider as if "iu" was historically
"iwu", then "iwa-" fits just in its place.

A true linguist may say that it was not historically "iwu" but rather
(ip-u/if-u)? -> ihw-u (-> ih-u/iw-u) -> iu
but I am not a linguist so I leave it to Bart.


muchan

[Bart Mathias]

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 15:13:42 -0700 (PDT)
rbb...@gmail.com wrote:

The root of the verb is iw-, historically from ip- (until modern times, kanacized in the ha-gyou). This is true of all three verbs mentioned, and all that have "...w-a-nai, ...w-a-reru," etc. The "negative stem" is a hypothetical construct forced on grammarians basing their work on kana, rather than an alphabet. The "a" is there to keep the consonants apart, a requirement of Japanese phonology.

The ichidan verbs are the only ones with roots ending in a vowel.
--
Bart Mathias <mat...@hawaii.edu>