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"In Tokugawa Japan it became customary to use the Chinese character for gentleman when writing the word samurai."

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aesthete8

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Feb 10, 2012, 1:25:10 AM2/10/12
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Is that true?

If that author is talking about TSUKAERU, wasn't that kanji used even
before the Tokugawa period for the word SAMURAI?:

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22in+tokugawa+japan+it+became+customary%22

Tad Perry

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Feb 10, 2012, 1:46:22 AM2/10/12
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"aesthete8" <art...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ba37acbb-1ab3-426a...@1g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
I cannot attempt an answer, but it brings up a question of my own for
whoever steps in and knows the answer.

武士 means 侍 and 士 itself has therefore developed a connotation of 侍, but
is/was this kanji ever commonly pronounced さむらい?

tvp

JimBreen

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Feb 10, 2012, 3:09:55 AM2/10/12
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On Feb 10, 5:46 pm, "Tad Perry" <tadpe...@comcast.net> wrote:

> 武士 means 侍 and 士 itself has therefore developed a connotation of 侍, but
> is/was this kanji ever commonly pronounced さむらい?

I can't find any example of 士 being pronounced さむらい.

As a kanji radical, it is called the "samurai radical", but that's all
I can find.

Jim

muchan

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Feb 10, 2012, 5:19:53 PM2/10/12
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On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:09:55 -0800 (PST)
JimBreen <jimb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 武士 means 侍 and 士 itself has therefore developed a connotation
> > of 侍, but is/was this kanji ever commonly pronounced さむらい?
>
> I can't find any example of 士 being pronounced さむらい.
>
> As a kanji radical, it is called the "samurai radical", but that's all
> I can find.
>
> Jim

Not common, but one example is the phrase "西向くさむらい小の月"、
that is, に、し、む、く　being 2, 4, 6, 9, and さむらい being 士
read as 11 ( upper part '十'　and bottom '一')、to remember
二月、四月、六月、九月、十一月 do not have 31 days.

「士」 is not usually read as さむらい、but I thought rather もののふ。
but maybe you read 武士 as もののふ in yamatokotoba.
- checking 岩波国語辞典 at desk, 士 is read as さむらい

「士」 in Chinese does not mean (only) military class, but seems
more generally, "man of value", "man of higher grade" or "man
who should be respected", in various context. (but IANANSCL)...
oops, the thread title gives "Chinese character for gentleman"...

The word "samurai" came from the verb "saburau", when they were hired
to guard the palace... I don't know exactly but I guess around 9th or
10th century.

muchan



JimBreen

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Feb 10, 2012, 8:28:23 PM2/10/12
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On Feb 11, 9:19 am, muchan <mucha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not common, but one example is the phrase "西向くさむらい小の月"、
> that is, に、し、む、く　being 2, 4, 6, 9, and さむらい being 士
> read as 11 ( upper part '十'　and bottom '一')、to remember
> 二月、四月、六月、九月、十一月 do not have 31 days.

Fascinating. I see in Google hits:
西向く士 48,200
西向く侍 70,200
西向くさむらい 3,760

> 「士」 is not usually read as さむらい、but I thought rather もののふ。
> but maybe you read 武士 as もののふ in yamatokotoba.
>  - checking 岩波国語辞典 at desk, 士 is read as さむらい

Yes, I see in its 漢和 part 広辞苑 has さむらい as a reading
of 士, and in its さむらい entry says "「士」とも書く"

Thanks

Jim

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