List of "true" ateji

[gb345]

Hi! I'm looking for a good list of the most common "true ateji (当て
字)", by which I mean compounds like 風呂 (furo), consisting of
characters chosen solely for phonetic reason, with no regard to
meaning. (To put it briefly: "discordant meanings, concordant
readings".) My online searches have been stymied by the fact that
most lists of so-called "ateji" consist mostly of jukujikun (熟字訓),
which are, in a sense, the *opposite* of ateji ("concordant
meanings, discordant readings").

I realize that "true ateji" are relatively rare these days, and that
most of the ones one may still encounter today geographical
names/abbreviations (e.g. 米 [bei/America], 智利 [chiri/Chile]).
Therefore, I expect that this list won't be terribly long.

Absent such a list, can anyone tell me of any other "true ateji" still
in use today, other than furo and geographical names?

Thanks!

G

[JimBreen]

On Apr 20, 4:51 am, gb345 <gb...@invalid.com> wrote:
> Hi!  I'm looking for a good list of the most common "true ateji (当て
> 字)", by which I mean compounds like 風呂 (furo), consisting of
> characters chosen solely for phonetic reason, with no regard to
> meaning.  (To put it briefly: "discordant meanings, concordant
> readings".)  My online searches have been stymied by the fact that
> most lists of so-called "ateji" consist mostly of jukujikun (熟字訓),
> which are, in a sense, the *opposite* of ateji ("concordant
> meanings, discordant readings").

Yes, many Japanese use "ateji" to mean any
form of irregular kanji usage.

> I realize that "true ateji" are relatively rare these days, and that
> most of the ones one may still encounter today geographical
> names/abbreviations (e.g. 米 [bei/America], 智利 [chiri/Chile]).
> Therefore, I expect that this list won't be terribly long.
>
> Absent such a list, can anyone tell me of any other "true ateji" still
> in use today, other than furo and geographical names?

The EDICT/JMdict file has 118 entries flagged as
containing ateji, e.g.

隠れキリシタン;隠れ切支丹(ateji) [かくれキリシタン] /(n) clandestine Christian (during the
Tokugawa period)/secret Christian/
雲居;雲井(ateji) [くもい] /(n) (1) (arch) sky/(2) cloud/(3) distant place/
high place/(4) imperial court/

AFAIK they are actual ateji. Let be know if any have been
mis-tagged.

Jim

[Ben Bullock]

On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:51:09 +0000, gb345 wrote:

> Hi! I'm looking for a good list of the most common "true ateji (当て
字)",
> by which I mean compounds like 風呂 (furo), consisting of characters
> chosen solely for phonetic reason, with no regard to meaning. (To put
> it briefly: "discordant meanings, concordant readings".) My online
> searches have been stymied by the fact that most lists of so-called
> "ateji" consist mostly of jukujikun (熟字訓), which are, in a sense, the
> *opposite* of ateji ("concordant meanings, discordant readings").

If I wanted to make such a list, I'd start with the lists that you
mentioned and then check whether they corresponded with the readings in a
kanji dictionary, eliminating the ones you don't want. That would
eliminate things like 倶楽部 of course. This could be done by a computer
easily, using Jim Breen's "Kanjidic" to obtain the kanji readings.

> I realize that "true ateji" are relatively rare these days, and that
> most of the ones one may still encounter today geographical
> names/abbreviations (e.g. 米 [bei/America], 智利 [chiri/Chile]).
Therefore,
> I expect that this list won't be terribly long.
>
> Absent such a list, can anyone tell me of any other "true ateji" still
> in use today, other than furo and geographical names?

You couldn't find any at all in all of those lists you rejected?

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