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Attn: Tad Perry (my kanji progress)
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Robert Crandal
Jan 19, 2012, 6:15:16 AM1/19/12
to
Hello Tad Perry,
I apologize, but I haven't been reading this newsgroup for awhile, so I
missed your
original post that was submitted in November of 2011. Thanks for showing
interest in my progress. 8)
So, in response to your question.........
I am currently using a kanji dictionary that lists 2000 of the most
"frequently used" or
"most important" characters. The characters in this dictionary are
"systematically
arranged in order of usage frequency and/or importance". The first kanji in
this
dictionary is "nichi" (日). The last kanji, at number 2000, is "shun" (峻)
I decided that I would start at kanji number 1 (日), and slowly follow the
kanji in
this book in order until I reached kanji #2000. Thus far, I have
thoroughly
mastered the first 821 kanji in this book. My bookmark is currently located
at
kanji #821, and I do currently have 821 index cards that I have diligently
worked
through and memorized. Each index card contains the on-yomi, kun-yomis, and
any
associated verbal readings. (I even wrote a few Henshall mnemonics on some
cards.)
As an example, my index card for the word "weak" (弱) contains the reading of
JAKU at the top. Below that I wrote the english words "weak; feeble;
weaken;
young". Below that, I have four different readings: yowa(i), yowa(ru),
yowa(maru), and yowa(meru). (just to give you a general idea)
I remember that other people here gave me lots of alternative methods for
learning
kanji, but I decided this was how I wanted to do it. My ultimate goal is to
become
proficient enough so that I can read novels thoroughly without referring to
a dictionary
or a computer to help me. I figure, if a native Japanese people can read
novels without
constantly referring to a dictionary, why can't I do it myself? I know that
I do have
a LONG ways to go, because at the moment I have to refer to a dictionary for
EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE that I read in a Japanese novel! Wow, huh?
It seems like every sentence I read contains a kanji that is outside of the
first 821 that
I have learned up to this point.
I know that my current method might not be the best way to develop reading
proficiency, but the fact is that I really love kanji. Even if I never
fully become able
to read novels without a dictionary, I'd still be satisfied knowing that I
had basic
knowledge of ANY and ALL 2000 kanji in this book. I'm sure my internal
brain
cells might get fried after squeezing 2000 kanji in my head, but I feel it
would be
worth it.
Just so you know, I'm pacing myself so that I learn 10 new kanji every three
to
four weeks approximately. In addition to memorizing 10 new kanji, I do
spend
LOTS of time writing each new kanji on paper repetetively, just to help me
memorize the stroke order. I also practice writing the new kanji I learn
using
compounds (jukugo) associated with any previous kanji that I have learned.
So........ 821 kanji down, and 1179 to go!!!! 8)
> How's your kanji studying going?
>
> I'm sure you're probably making headway and was interested in your
> progress.
>
> I hope you take my recommendation regarding the flash cards and to study
> from the angle of native verbs, adjectives and nouns.
>
> Learn the Chinese readings by including Chinese compound words on the
> back.
> An ideal deck would include a list of all compound words marked with a (P)
> in E-jdict.) Require yourself to name at least one of the Chinese compound
> words when you test the card. For instance, your card is "kaku" (to
> write).
> You read have to read it, say what it means, say it's on-yomi, and name at
> least one compound (such as "toshokan") listed on the back to pass.
>
> Also, put sample sentences on the back. Idioms using the word are useful
> inclusions. I also recommend putting a mnemonic that allows you to recall
> every consituent part of the kanji on the back, too.
>
> When all these associations become tied into one knot, you have a lot of
> information hanging off of things words like "moteasobu," "hagesumu,"
> "omomuku," which have meanings with psycholinguist connections to the
> sounds, allowing a strong connection to be made between the front and back
> sides of the card. The on-yomi part of the language becomes a sort of an
> aside, but you will be able to read nearly all of the words you come in
> contact with.
>
> I estimate a really motivated learner could soar to JPLT1 level
> proficiency
> (regarding kanji and vocabulary) in six months to a year using this
> method.
>
> tvp
>
I apologize, but I haven't been reading this newsgroup for awhile, so I
missed your
original post that was submitted in November of 2011. Thanks for showing
interest in my progress. 8)
So, in response to your question.........
I am currently using a kanji dictionary that lists 2000 of the most
"frequently used" or
"most important" characters. The characters in this dictionary are
"systematically
arranged in order of usage frequency and/or importance". The first kanji in
this
dictionary is "nichi" (日). The last kanji, at number 2000, is "shun" (峻)
I decided that I would start at kanji number 1 (日), and slowly follow the
kanji in
this book in order until I reached kanji #2000. Thus far, I have
thoroughly
mastered the first 821 kanji in this book. My bookmark is currently located
at
kanji #821, and I do currently have 821 index cards that I have diligently
worked
through and memorized. Each index card contains the on-yomi, kun-yomis, and
any
associated verbal readings. (I even wrote a few Henshall mnemonics on some
cards.)
As an example, my index card for the word "weak" (弱) contains the reading of
JAKU at the top. Below that I wrote the english words "weak; feeble;
weaken;
young". Below that, I have four different readings: yowa(i), yowa(ru),
yowa(maru), and yowa(meru). (just to give you a general idea)
I remember that other people here gave me lots of alternative methods for
learning
kanji, but I decided this was how I wanted to do it. My ultimate goal is to
become
proficient enough so that I can read novels thoroughly without referring to
a dictionary
or a computer to help me. I figure, if a native Japanese people can read
novels without
constantly referring to a dictionary, why can't I do it myself? I know that
I do have
a LONG ways to go, because at the moment I have to refer to a dictionary for
EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE that I read in a Japanese novel! Wow, huh?
It seems like every sentence I read contains a kanji that is outside of the
first 821 that
I have learned up to this point.
I know that my current method might not be the best way to develop reading
proficiency, but the fact is that I really love kanji. Even if I never
fully become able
to read novels without a dictionary, I'd still be satisfied knowing that I
had basic
knowledge of ANY and ALL 2000 kanji in this book. I'm sure my internal
brain
cells might get fried after squeezing 2000 kanji in my head, but I feel it
would be
worth it.
Just so you know, I'm pacing myself so that I learn 10 new kanji every three
to
four weeks approximately. In addition to memorizing 10 new kanji, I do
spend
LOTS of time writing each new kanji on paper repetetively, just to help me
memorize the stroke order. I also practice writing the new kanji I learn
using
compounds (jukugo) associated with any previous kanji that I have learned.
So........ 821 kanji down, and 1179 to go!!!! 8)
> How's your kanji studying going?
>
> I'm sure you're probably making headway and was interested in your
> progress.
>
> I hope you take my recommendation regarding the flash cards and to study
> from the angle of native verbs, adjectives and nouns.
>
> Learn the Chinese readings by including Chinese compound words on the
> back.
> An ideal deck would include a list of all compound words marked with a (P)
> in E-jdict.) Require yourself to name at least one of the Chinese compound
> words when you test the card. For instance, your card is "kaku" (to
> write).
> You read have to read it, say what it means, say it's on-yomi, and name at
> least one compound (such as "toshokan") listed on the back to pass.
>
> Also, put sample sentences on the back. Idioms using the word are useful
> inclusions. I also recommend putting a mnemonic that allows you to recall
> every consituent part of the kanji on the back, too.
>
> When all these associations become tied into one knot, you have a lot of
> information hanging off of things words like "moteasobu," "hagesumu,"
> "omomuku," which have meanings with psycholinguist connections to the
> sounds, allowing a strong connection to be made between the front and back
> sides of the card. The on-yomi part of the language becomes a sort of an
> aside, but you will be able to read nearly all of the words you come in
> contact with.
>
> I estimate a really motivated learner could soar to JPLT1 level
> proficiency
> (regarding kanji and vocabulary) in six months to a year using this
> method.
>
> tvp
>
Tad Perry
Jan 19, 2012, 8:12:48 AM1/19/12
to
I usually don't top post, but once top-posting starts, it's best to continue
with it.
If you like I can send you an ANKI deck of flash cards for the Japanese
verbs that works in the way I described.
(I.e. there is a verb on one side, and on the back the reading for that
verb, other on-yomi and kun-yomi readings if there are any, the English
definition (cut-and-pasted out of Edict, but often edited for a bit more
brevity), a sample sentence, and then a list of common on-yomi compounds
that include that kanji.
Example.
Front:
汚す
Back:
*****
【よごす】 よご.れる きたな.い オ
to soil, dirty, stain (e.g. one's clothes with actual dirt)
その本を汚さないように扱ってくれるなら、貸してあげるよ。
【けがす】 けが.れる けが.らわしい オ
to disgrace, defile, dishonor, stain (e.g. one's reputation)
あんな行動は彼の体面を汚すものだ。
Note: よごす is used literally. けがす is used figuratively.
汚濁 おだく pollution; contamination; corruption; graft
貪汚 たんお greed; corruption
汚点 おてん stain; blot; flaw; disgrace
汚染 おせん pollution; contamination
汚職 おしょく corruption
汚辱 おじょく disgrace; humiliation; insult
汚水 おすい filthy water; sewage
汚名 おめい stigma; dishonour; dishonor; infamy
汚行 おこう scandalous conduct
汚泥 おでい dirty mud
*****
There are currently 826 entries. Simple, first year level verbs like 書く, 話す,
and 聞く are not included. (The deck was compiled long after mastering those.)
In this example, the verb has two ambiguous readings that can only be told
apart by context. There are actually quite a few verbs in Japanese like this
where the reading changes depending on whether it is being used literally or
figuratively. (e.g. 鈍る niburu/namaru - to be dull either mentally or in the
way a knife can be dull.)
I found it much easier to pick up the meaning of kanji by memorizing them
from the kun-yomi angle (as I've been stating). The simpler kanji (the first
996 learned in elementary school) aren't so bad to learn in isolation, but
it starts getting harder.
If you're not interested, I understand, but when combined with your
approach, you may find you learn much faster.
I also have decks for adjectives (pure adjectivals as well as kun-yomi -na
adectivals), single-kanji kun-yomi nouns, and on-yomi kanji compounds.
The offer is, of course, open to anyone else that may be insterested.
Your goal to be able to read a novel in Japanese without looking in a
dictionary is quite noble. I'm reading the novel 1Q84 and I need to look up
at least 4 or 5 words on every page. However, that's following a strict
standard because I want to be able to read it and state it's meaning. Often
I know what the word must mean, but the problem is I cannot state the
reading with certainty. Being sure of the reading and having a good idea of
the meaning are far different standards. I'd say I need to look up about 1
word per page due to having absolutely no idea what the word means. (The
fact kanji act as a sort of immediate dictionary, but have multiple
readings, causes this discrepency.)
tvp
"Robert Crandal" <rcranz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:VNCdnf2NI7HaZorS...@giganews.com...
with it.
If you like I can send you an ANKI deck of flash cards for the Japanese
verbs that works in the way I described.
(I.e. there is a verb on one side, and on the back the reading for that
verb, other on-yomi and kun-yomi readings if there are any, the English
definition (cut-and-pasted out of Edict, but often edited for a bit more
brevity), a sample sentence, and then a list of common on-yomi compounds
that include that kanji.
Example.
Front:
汚す
Back:
*****
【よごす】 よご.れる きたな.い オ
to soil, dirty, stain (e.g. one's clothes with actual dirt)
その本を汚さないように扱ってくれるなら、貸してあげるよ。
【けがす】 けが.れる けが.らわしい オ
to disgrace, defile, dishonor, stain (e.g. one's reputation)
あんな行動は彼の体面を汚すものだ。
Note: よごす is used literally. けがす is used figuratively.
汚濁 おだく pollution; contamination; corruption; graft
貪汚 たんお greed; corruption
汚点 おてん stain; blot; flaw; disgrace
汚染 おせん pollution; contamination
汚職 おしょく corruption
汚辱 おじょく disgrace; humiliation; insult
汚水 おすい filthy water; sewage
汚名 おめい stigma; dishonour; dishonor; infamy
汚行 おこう scandalous conduct
汚泥 おでい dirty mud
*****
There are currently 826 entries. Simple, first year level verbs like 書く, 話す,
and 聞く are not included. (The deck was compiled long after mastering those.)
In this example, the verb has two ambiguous readings that can only be told
apart by context. There are actually quite a few verbs in Japanese like this
where the reading changes depending on whether it is being used literally or
figuratively. (e.g. 鈍る niburu/namaru - to be dull either mentally or in the
way a knife can be dull.)
I found it much easier to pick up the meaning of kanji by memorizing them
from the kun-yomi angle (as I've been stating). The simpler kanji (the first
996 learned in elementary school) aren't so bad to learn in isolation, but
it starts getting harder.
If you're not interested, I understand, but when combined with your
approach, you may find you learn much faster.
I also have decks for adjectives (pure adjectivals as well as kun-yomi -na
adectivals), single-kanji kun-yomi nouns, and on-yomi kanji compounds.
The offer is, of course, open to anyone else that may be insterested.
Your goal to be able to read a novel in Japanese without looking in a
dictionary is quite noble. I'm reading the novel 1Q84 and I need to look up
at least 4 or 5 words on every page. However, that's following a strict
standard because I want to be able to read it and state it's meaning. Often
I know what the word must mean, but the problem is I cannot state the
reading with certainty. Being sure of the reading and having a good idea of
the meaning are far different standards. I'd say I need to look up about 1
word per page due to having absolutely no idea what the word means. (The
fact kanji act as a sort of immediate dictionary, but have multiple
readings, causes this discrepency.)
tvp
"Robert Crandal" <rcranz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:VNCdnf2NI7HaZorS...@giganews.com...
Robert Crandal
Jan 19, 2012, 2:33:48 PM1/19/12
to
Hey, I think I would definitely be interested in those ANKI flashcards.
I thought about using ANKI long ago, but by that time I had already
manually created more than 600 flashcards on paper index cards, and I
didn't want to spend more time transfering all my cards onto the computer.
Eventually it would be nice if I could study kanji flashcards on a portable
device, such as an iPad (once I can afford one) - this seems more
efficient that carrying all my index cards wherever I go. 8)
Would I need to give you my e-mail address for the ANKI flashcards?
Thanks so much. These will be very useful for my goal. I should have
been at the 1000 kanji mark already, but I took a break from my kanji
studies all throughout the holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, etcetera...
Time to start studying again.
"Tad Perry" <tadp...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jf94se$p0$1...@dont-email.me...
I thought about using ANKI long ago, but by that time I had already
manually created more than 600 flashcards on paper index cards, and I
didn't want to spend more time transfering all my cards onto the computer.
Eventually it would be nice if I could study kanji flashcards on a portable
device, such as an iPad (once I can afford one) - this seems more
efficient that carrying all my index cards wherever I go. 8)
Would I need to give you my e-mail address for the ANKI flashcards?
Thanks so much. These will be very useful for my goal. I should have
been at the 1000 kanji mark already, but I took a break from my kanji
studies all throughout the holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, etcetera...
Time to start studying again.
"Tad Perry" <tadp...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jf94se$p0$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>
>
> There are currently 826 entries. Simple, first year level verbs like 書く,
> 話す, and 聞く are not included. (The deck was compiled long after mastering
> those.)
>
>
>
>
> There are currently 826 entries. Simple, first year level verbs like 書く,
> 話す, and 聞く are not included. (The deck was compiled long after mastering
> those.)
>
>
Tad Perry
Jan 19, 2012, 6:26:36 PM1/19/12
to
I tried your rcranz...@gmail.com but it aborted for some reason.
If you have another email address that can accept attachments, but don't
want it known,
e-mail me from that address at tadp...@comcast.net and I'll send them to
you.
tvp
"Robert Crandal" <rcranz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:VNCdnf2NI7HaZorS...@giganews.com...
If you have another email address that can accept attachments, but don't
want it known,
e-mail me from that address at tadp...@comcast.net and I'll send them to
you.
tvp
"Robert Crandal" <rcranz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:VNCdnf2NI7HaZorS...@giganews.com...
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