"Tottemo" vs. "Totemo"
NEStevens
group.
Lately I've been hearing, seeing, and using TOTTEMO in place of the
standard (I assume) TOTEMO, which my Japanese (host) family uses. Which
one is right? Is there a big difference between them, or is it just a
question of dialect and accent?
Thank you!
--------------------------------------------------------------
Nora E. Stevens "When I get a little money, I buy books;
Clinton Twp., MI if any is left, I buy food and clothes."
nest...@aol.com -- Desiderius Erasmus
--------------------------------------------------------------
Hiroshi KIMURA
rites:
In my opinion, "Totemo" is basic, traditional pronaunciation. However,
we also use "Tottemo" to show emphasis. For example, when I cook some-
thing for my friend, my friend probably says,
"Totemo oishikatta" or "Tottemo oishikatta".
I feel more happy if my friend says later one (Tottemo...).
//--from----------------------------------------------------------------------
//
// Hiroshi KIMURA : jl6...@dfw.net
//
// 1291 Enclave cir. #1903 fax:+1-817-277-9399 Ma ta ne!
// Arlington, TX 76011 USA (\@_@/) (^_^;) (^_^)/~~ (See you later!)
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MATSUYAMA Iwao
> In my opinion, "Totemo" is basic, traditional pronaunciation. However,
> we also use "Tottemo" to show emphasis.
I agree. In addition, "Tottemo" has a little bit colloquial flavor
than "Totemo," especially when "Tottemo" is used in a written
sentence.
--
/~~ matu...@e.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Iwao MATSUYAMA)~~~~~~~~~~/
/ Majoring in library and information science at /
/ Graduate School at Faculty of Education, /
/______________________________the University of Tokyo__/
NEStevens
Thanks so much to all who've responded! I'm glad I wasn't wrong, using
TOTTEMO for so long. I guess I just like emphasis. =)
Thanks again!
Nora
MATTHEW R GUTHAUS
sugoi? I saw something about this earlier, but I can't find the post.
Matt
NEStevens (nest...@aol.com) wrote:
:>Hello!
NEStevens
wrote:
> This is not really related, but what is the difference between totemo
and
> sugoi? I saw something about this earlier, but I can't find the post.
Hello!
TOTEMO means "really" or "quite" or even "how", as in "Totemo benri!" (How
convenient!) or, as previously posted, "Totemo oishikatta!" (It was really
delicious!). SUGOI just means "great", "super", "fantastic", "cool", etc.
Ostensibly, one could say, "Totemo sugoi!"
BTW, I'm going to U of M this fall!
i...@htk.hitachi-cable.co.jp
> In message <3mtplb$e...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> - nest...@aol.com (NEStevens) w
> rites:
> >Lately I've been hearing, seeing, and using TOTTEMO in place of the
> >standard (I assume) TOTEMO, which my Japanese (host) family uses. Which
> >one is right? Is there a big difference between them, or is it just a
> >question of dialect and accent?
>
> In my opinion, "Totemo" is basic, traditional pronaunciation. However,
> we also use "Tottemo" to show emphasis. For example, when I cook some-
> thing for my friend, my friend probably says,
>
> "Totemo oishikatta" or "Tottemo oishikatta".
>
> I feel more happy if my friend says later one (Tottemo...).
I would like to give some cases of pronunciation change similar to the above.
Original Emphasized
---------- ----------
yahari yappari
dekai dekkai
ookii okkii
ahare(*) appare
Nihon(**) Nippon
(*) The original form "ahare", which is the origin of "aware", is not
used in modern Japanese.
(**) I am not confident in saying "Nihon" is original and "Nippon" is
emphasized.
--
日立電線（株）情報管理室 伊藤一光
(EMAIL i...@htk.hitachi-cable.co.jp TEL 0294-42-3151 (2596))
Mitsuha Sonozaki
NEStevens <nest...@aol.com> wrote:
>On 18 April 1995, mgut...@news-server.engin.umich.edu (MATTHEW R GUTHAUS)
>wrote:
>> This is not really related, but what is the difference between totemo
>> and sugoi? I saw something about this earlier, but I can't find the post.
>convenient!) or, as previously posted, "Totemo oishikatta!" (It was really
>delicious!). SUGOI just means "great", "super", "fantastic", "cool", etc.
> Ostensibly, one could say, "Totemo sugoi!"
Your explanation is grammatically correct.
sugoi---adj., wonderful, terrible, awful, etc.
tet(t)emo---adv., really, quite, etc.
However, nowadays especially among the younger people, sugoi is used as adv.,
too. (There is an adv. form of sugoi, "sugoku", but they use the adj. form.)
ex) Sugoi kawaii! (How cute!)
Sugoi oishii (It's quite delicious.)
When sugoi is used in this context, the following formality hierarchy exists:
hijou ni formal (TV casters use this)
taihen formal
totemo normal
sugoku normal/casual
tottemo exaggerated, casual
sugoi casual
Other such words are:
monosugoku(monosugoi) exaggerated, casual
mechamecha/muchakucha very casual
cho super-casual
Wei-Hwa Huang
>In article <3n17b7$6...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
>NEStevens <nest...@aol.com> wrote:
>>On 18 April 1995, mgut...@news-server.engin.umich.edu (MATTHEW R GUTHAUS)
>>wrote:
>>> This is not really related, but what is the difference between totemo
>>> and sugoi? I saw something about this earlier, but I can't find the post.
>>TOTEMO means "really" or "quite" or even "how", as in "Totemo benri!" (How
>>convenient!) or, as previously posted, "Totemo oishikatta!" (It was really
>>delicious!). SUGOI just means "great", "super", "fantastic", "cool", etc.
>> Ostensibly, one could say, "Totemo sugoi!"
>Your explanation is grammatically correct.
> sugoi---adj., wonderful, terrible, awful, etc.
> tet(t)emo---adv., really, quite, etc.
>However, nowadays especially among the younger people, sugoi is used as adv.,
>too. (There is an adv. form of sugoi, "sugoku", but they use the adj. form.)
I once heard that "sugoi" can be generally translated as "pretty," as in
"pretty good", "pretty bad", "pretty convenient." On the other hand,
"totemo" is just "very".
Onizuka KENTARO
>>TOTEMO means "really" or "quite" or even "how", as in "Totemo benri!" (How
>>convenient!) or, as previously posted, "Totemo oishikatta!" (It was really
>>delicious!). SUGOI just means "great", "super", "fantastic", "cool", etc.
>> Ostensibly, one could say, "Totemo sugoi!"
>>
>>BTW, I'm going to U of M this fall!
>>
>>Nora
Originally "totemo/tottemo" can only be used in negative sentence.
Watashi ha totemo sonna koto ha dekinai. I can't do that.
watashi niha totemo totemo muridesu. I am not such that can do that.
Young people began to use "totemo/tottemo" to enphasize the sentence.
Kentaro
Jason Coyne
>This is not really related, but what is the difference between totemo and
>sugoi? I saw something about this earlier, but I can't find the post.
>Matt
tetemo means very,
sugoii means awesome, terrible etc.
ie:
kobe no shishin wa sugokata da ne? = the kobe earthquake was teriblle
wasn't it?
or
micheal jordan-san wa suhoii da yo. = micheal jordan is awesome.
Hope that helps..
Dai F Toyama
> On 18 April 1995, mgut...@news-server.engin.umich.edu (MATTHEW R GUTHAUS)
> wrote:
>
> > This is not really related, but what is the difference between totemo
> and
> > sugoi? I saw something about this earlier, but I can't find the post.
>
> TOTEMO means "really" or "quite" or even "how", as in "Totemo benri!" (How
> convenient!) or, as previously posted, "Totemo oishikatta!" (It was really
> delicious!). SUGOI just means "great", "super", "fantastic", "cool", etc.
> Ostensibly, one could say, "Totemo sugoi!"
>
Nora:
Actually you can use 'sugoi' in place of 'tot(t)emo' in colloquial
Japanese. In fact, 'sugoi' is probably a lot more common than 'tottemo'
among the youngsters.
A good example would be: 'Sugoi oishii!' vs 'Totemo oishii!'. The latter
sounds way too formal when you're talking with friends. Personally I
hardly ever use 'tot(t)emo' in conversations.
Hope this helps.
Dai
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| DAI F TOYAMA Computer Science |
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Satoru Miyazaki
> On 18 Apr 1995, NEStevens wrote:
> Actually you can use 'sugoi' in place of 'tot(t)emo' in colloquial
> Japanese. In fact, 'sugoi' is probably a lot more common than 'tottemo'
> among the youngsters.
>
> A good example would be: 'Sugoi oishii!' vs 'Totemo oishii!'. The latter
> sounds way too formal when you're talking with friends. Personally I
> hardly ever use 'tot(t)emo' in conversations.
by the contemporary Japanese (like "ra-less" verbs or ranuki kotoba)? The
correct usage is "sugoku oiishii".
-
------------------------------------------------------------
Satoru Miyazaki 米国
Pesticide Research Center ミシガン州立大学
Michigan State University 農薬研究所
U.S.A. 宮崎覚
miya...@pilot.msu.edu
Dai F Toyama
> Originally "totemo/tottemo" can only be used in negative sentence.
>
How long ago was it? Ever since I was a kid, I've been taught to use it
as 'really', 'very', etc. By your logic, words like 'zettai' shouldn't
be used the way it actually is in modern Japanese, huh?
> Young people began to use "totemo/tottemo" to enphasize the sentence.
>
So? Just one of those changes that inevitably occur to languages. Let's
not be so prescriptive.
Dai F Toyama
> "Dai F Toyama <bo...@paul.spu.edu>" says:
> >
> > Actually you can use 'sugoi' in place of 'tot(t)emo' in colloquial
> > Japanese. In fact, 'sugoi' is probably a lot more common than '
> > 'tottemo' among the youngsters.
> >
> > A good example would be: 'Sugoi oishii!' vs 'Totemo oishii!'. The
> > latter sounds way too formal when you're talking with friends.
> > Personally I hardly ever use 'tot(t)emo' in conversations.
>
> As an old timer, should I lament an improper grammer of "sugoi oishii"
> used by the contemporary Japanese (like "ra-less" verbs or ranuki
> kotoba)? The correct usage is "sugoku oiishii".
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What do you mean by 'correct usage'? I'd understand it if you mean
'traditionally accepted usage'. If you're one of the prescriptionists
who believe in the 'correctness' of language, well I would say language
changes as long as it's actively used. What was considered 'incorrect'
50 years ago may not be so anymore.
BTW, you spelt 'grammar' incorrectly.
Onizuka KENTARO
>>Hello! I tried to post this before, but I don't think it made it to the
>>group.
>>
>>Lately I've been hearing, seeing, and using TOTTEMO in place of the
>>standard (I assume) TOTEMO, which my Japanese (host) family uses. Which
>>one is right? Is there a big difference between them, or is it just a
>>question of dialect and accent?
I think the difference between TOTEMO and TOTTEMO is due to the accent
and stress. the indefinit article "a" is usually pronounced "a" and
sometimes pronounced "ai." Almost the same thing. And also the level
of formality may influence the pronunciation.
formal informal
totemo -> tottemo
# note that interms of formal grammar, "tottemo" should be used in
# negative sentence.
yahari -> yappari -> yappa but still
-> yappashi
daga -> dakeredomo -> dakedo -> kedo however (but)
-to-iu -> -tteiu -> -ttsuu say that ...
kentaro
Onizuka KENTARO
>>This is not really related, but what is the difference between totemo and
>>sugoi? I saw something about this earlier, but I can't find the post.
>>Matt
As I posted before, "Totemo" is grammatically, only permitted in the
negative sentence.
Sonna koto totemo dekimasen.
I cannot do that. I don't have the capability to do that.
Watashi ha korega totemo suki. (Grammatically incorrect)
Watashi ha korega sugoku suki. (correct but not GOOD)
Watashi ha korega taihen suki. (GOOD)
I like this very much.
"Sugoi" means "terrible."
Since the original meaning is different, the usage is also affected by
the original meaning.
Kentaro
Gerald B Mathias
: > A good example would be: 'Sugoi oishii!' vs 'Totemo oishii!'. The latter
: > sounds way too formal when you're talking with friends. Personally I
: > hardly ever use 'tot(t)emo' in conversations.
: As an old timer, should I lament an improper grammer of "sugoi oishii" used
: by the contemporary Japanese (like "ra-less" verbs or ranuki kotoba)? The
: correct usage is "sugoku oiishii".
My word! How old a timer are you? 'Sugoi kirei' and the like was already
pretty common when I first began learning Japanese in 1956.
On the other hand, I am quite familiar with 'yagate' written in kanji;
apparently that makes me an old-timer too!
Bart Mathias
Nori Aruga
Dai F Toyama <bo...@paul.spu.edu> writes:
> On 19 Apr 1995, Onizuka KENTARO wrote:
>
> > Originally "totemo/tottemo" can only be used in negative sentence.
>
> How long ago was it? Ever since I was a kid, I've been taught to use it
> as 'really', 'very', etc. By your logic, words like 'zettai' shouldn't
> be used the way it actually is in modern Japanese, huh?
>
> > Young people began to use "totemo/tottemo" to enphasize the sentence.
>
> So? Just one of those changes that inevitably occur to languages. Let's
> not be so prescriptive.
The usage of _totemo/tottemo_ in negative constructions is still a
valid one. People often say things like "... wa totemo kangaerarenai",
which means that something is beyond the scope of one's imagination.
I don't know about when they started using _totemo_ to modify another
adjective or adverb, but I, thirty-something, don't feel anything odd
about this usage, either; I use it all the time.
There seems to be a tendency for these adverbs like _totemo_ that were
originally used mainly with a negative predicate to come to be used to
emphasize something that follows them. _mattaku_ is one. _zenzen_ is
yet another, although older generations would feel appalled to hear
people say things like "_zenzen_ sugoi" (terribly awesome).
--
_ _
nOrI Aruga <no...@LogoVista.co.jp>
=/ Tokyo, Japan
Dai F Toyama
> Dai F Toyama <bo...@paul.spu.edu> writes:
>
> > On 19 Apr 1995, Onizuka KENTARO wrote:
> >
> > > Originally "totemo/tottemo" can only be used in negative sentence.
> >
> > How long ago was it? Ever since I was a kid, I've been taught to use it
> > as 'really', 'very', etc. By your logic, words like 'zettai' shouldn't
> > be used the way it actually is in modern Japanese, huh?
> >
> > > Young people began to use "totemo/tottemo" to enphasize the sentence.
> >
> > So? Just one of those changes that inevitably occur to languages.
> > Let's not be so prescriptive.
>
> The usage of _totemo/tottemo_ in negative constructions is still a
> valid one. People often say things like "... wa totemo kangaerarenai",
> which means that something is beyond the scope of one's imagination.
> I don't know about when they started using _totemo_ to modify another
> adjective or adverb, but I, thirty-something, don't feel anything odd
> about this usage, either; I use it all the time.
>
I've never argued against the original usage of 'tot(t)emo'. I am aware
of the example you showed above. I myself use it that way too. I'm just
saying that it's not the only 'grammatically correct' structure anymore.
OTOH, Mr Onizuka seems quite reluctant to admit it.
> There seems to be a tendency for these adverbs like _totemo_ that were
> originally used mainly with a negative predicate to come to be used to
> emphasize something that follows them. _mattaku_ is one. _zenzen_ is
> yet another, although older generations would feel appalled to hear
> people say things like "_zenzen_ sugoi" (terribly awesome).
> --
I agree. What makes perfect sense in your opinions is that you say such
verbs 'were originally used mainly with a negative predicate' instead of
insisting that it be the only permissible form today. If you ask me, I
still feel strange when I hear someone say 'zenzen sugoi'. But hey,
there's nothing we can do about the change...
Dai
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| DAI F TOYAMA Computer Science |
| Seattle Pacific University |
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Drycactus
zenzen sugoi or better, zenzen ki ni shiteru!!!!!