-chau/-chaimasu - what is it? / 「ーちゃう・ーちゃいます」って、なに ？
David Nettles
しちゃいます / shichaimasu
as opposed to saying:
します / shimasu
--
David Nettles
email: tetsuo...@hotmail.com
web: http://www.miteyo.org
Chris S.
>
> しちゃいます / shichaimasu
[te form] + shimaimasu/shimau refers to when something is done or completed.
Usually, there's an implication of regret that it happened. Note there are
contractions.:
shichaimasu < shite + shimaimasu
nonjatta < nonde + shimatta
Here's a couple of examples from the top of my head....When you're running
really late in the morning and you see the bus coming, you say:
バスが来ちゃう。 basu ga kichau!
Or if you're telling your friend what happened to your homework:
犬が宿題を食べちゃった。
HTH, :)
--Chris
HONYAKUKA
しちゃいます / shichaimasu
> as opposed to saying:
します / shimasu
First of all, this is the colloquial form of "V-te shimau" (e.g., shite
shimau/shite shimaimasu). This will be easier to find in dictionaries and
grammar books.
"-te shimau" adds a sense of finality to the verb. It can either imply
simple completion or have a more emotional nuance (often negative). Examples
from my Shogakukan dictionary:
Shukudai wo yatte shimatta. I have finished my homework.
Shinsha wo tsui katte shimatta. I bought a new car in spite of myself. (Or,
[I set out just to look over the possibilities but] I ended up buying a new
car.)
Jay
David Nettles
ビールを飲みました。
I drank the beer.
and
ビールを飲みちゃいました。
[Ugh!] I drank the beer. [ :( ]
--
David Nettles
email: tetsuo...@hotmail.com
web: http://www.miteyo.org
"Chris S." <vanis...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010907034549...@mb-mc.aol.com...
Kevin Gowen
<tetsuo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>So, it is the difference between:
>
> $B%S!<%k$r0{$_$^$7$?!# (B
> I drank the beer.
>
>and
>
> $B%S!<%k$r0{$_$A$c$$$^$7$?!# (B
> [Ugh!] I drank the beer. [ :( ]
There is not always a negative connotation to -shimau/-chau.
Have you never heard a Japanese woman say "itchatta!"?
>--
>David Nettles
>email: tetsuo...@hotmail.com
>web: http://www.miteyo.org
>
>
>"Chris S." <vanis...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20010907034549...@mb-mc.aol.com...
>> >That's the question. What does it mean when someones says:
>> >
>> > $B$7$A$c$$$^$9 (B / shichaimasu
>>
>> [te form] + shimaimasu/shimau refers to when something is done or
>completed.
>> Usually, there's an implication of regret that it happened. Note there are
>> contractions.:
>>
>> shichaimasu < shite + shimaimasu
>> nonjatta < nonde + shimatta
>>
>> Here's a couple of examples from the top of my head....When you're running
>> really late in the morning and you see the bus coming, you say:
>> $B%P%9$,Mh$A$c$&!# (B basu ga kichau!
>>
>> Or if you're telling your friend what happened to your homework:
>> $B8$$,=IBj$r?)$Y$A$c$C$?!# (B
>>
>> HTH, :)
>>
>> --Chris
>>
>>
>
Kevin R. Gowen, II
Florida State University College of Law
•§èÓ—¢’B B—§‘åŠw–@Šw•”
Blessed be the LORD, my rock, who trains my hands for war,
and my fingers for battle- Psalms 144:1
My opinions are mine own and may not be interpreted as
representing Florida State University or any of its schools.
Hirofumi Nagamura
>
> So, it is the difference between:
>
> ビールを飲みました。
> I drank the beer.
>
> and
>
> ビールを飲みちゃいました。
> [Ugh!] I drank the beer. [ :( ]
That ought to be ビールを飲んじゃいました. "-te shimau" --> "-chau",
but "-de shimau" --> "-jau".
Cheers,
--
Hirofumi Nagamura
Freelance technical translator
Kobe, Japan
David Nettles
What does it mean?
--
David Nettles
email: tetsuo...@hotmail.com
web: http://www.miteyo.org
"Kevin Gowen" <kevin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b9920bb...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2001 18:37:50 GMT, "David Nettles"
> <tetsuo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >So, it is the difference between:
> >
> > ビールを飲みました。
> > I drank the beer.
> >
> >and
> >
> > ビールを飲みちゃいました。
> > [Ugh!] I drank the beer. [ :( ]
>
> There is not always a negative connotation to -shimau/-chau.
>
> Have you never heard a Japanese woman say "itchatta!"?
>
> >--
> >David Nettles
> >email: tetsuo...@hotmail.com
> >web: http://www.miteyo.org
> >
> >
> >"Chris S." <vanis...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20010907034549...@mb-mc.aol.com...
> >> >That's the question. What does it mean when someones says:
> >> >
> >> > しちゃいます / shichaimasu
> >>
> >> [te form] + shimaimasu/shimau refers to when something is done or
> >completed.
> >> Usually, there's an implication of regret that it happened. Note there
are
> >> contractions.:
> >>
> >> shichaimasu < shite + shimaimasu
> >> nonjatta < nonde + shimatta
> >>
> >> Here's a couple of examples from the top of my head....When you're
running
> >> really late in the morning and you see the bus coming, you say:
> >> バスが来ちゃう。 basu ga kichau!
> >>
> >> Or if you're telling your friend what happened to your homework:
> >> 犬が宿題を食べちゃった。
> >>
> >> HTH, :)
> >>
> >> --Chris
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> Kevin R. Gowen, II
> Florida State University College of Law
> 仏勒里達州立大学法学部
Kevin Gowen
<tetsuo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Not really.... In what kind've situation would I have heard this said?
>
>What does it mean?
I perhaps wasn't clear enough. Usually, the woman will say "itchau"
first, then "itchatta".
Does this help?
>--
>David Nettles
>email: tetsuo...@hotmail.com
>web: http://www.miteyo.org
>
>
>"Kevin Gowen" <kevin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3b9920bb...@news.cis.dfn.de...
>> On Fri, 07 Sep 2001 18:37:50 GMT, "David Nettles"
>> <tetsuo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >So, it is the difference between:
>> >
>> > $B%S!<%k$r0{$_$^$7$?!# (B
>> > I drank the beer.
>> >
>> >and
>> >
>> > $B%S!<%k$r0{$_$A$c$$$^$7$?!# (B
>> > [Ugh!] I drank the beer. [ :( ]
>>
>> There is not always a negative connotation to -shimau/-chau.
>>
>> Have you never heard a Japanese woman say "itchatta!"?
>>
>> >--
>> >David Nettles
>> >email: tetsuo...@hotmail.com
>> >web: http://www.miteyo.org
>> >
>> >
>> >"Chris S." <vanis...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >news:20010907034549...@mb-mc.aol.com...
>> >> >That's the question. What does it mean when someones says:
>> >> >
>> >> > $B$7$A$c$$$^$9 (B / shichaimasu
>> >>
>> >> [te form] + shimaimasu/shimau refers to when something is done or
>> >completed.
>> >> Usually, there's an implication of regret that it happened. Note there
>are
>> >> contractions.:
>> >>
>> >> shichaimasu < shite + shimaimasu
>> >> nonjatta < nonde + shimatta
>> >>
>> >> Here's a couple of examples from the top of my head....When you're
>running
>> >> really late in the morning and you see the bus coming, you say:
>> >> $B%P%9$,Mh$A$c$&!# (B basu ga kichau!
>> >>
>> >> Or if you're telling your friend what happened to your homework:
>> >> $B8$$,=IBj$r?)$Y$A$c$C$?!# (B
>> >>
>> >> HTH, :)
>> >>
>> >> --Chris
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> Kevin R. Gowen, II
>> Florida State University College of Law
>> $BJ)pUN$C#=#N)Bg3XK!3XIt (B
>> Blessed be the LORD, my rock, who trains my hands for war,
>> and my fingers for battle- Psalms 144:1
>> My opinions are mine own and may not be interpreted as
>> representing Florida State University or any of its schools.
>
Kevin R. Gowen, II
Florida State University College of Law
•§èÓ—¢’B B—§‘åŠw–@Šw•”
Ken Nicolson
wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Sep 2001 03:58:07 GMT, "David Nettles"
><tetsuo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Not really.... In what kind've situation would I have heard this said?
>>
>>What does it mean?
>
>I perhaps wasn't clear enough. Usually, the woman will say "itchau"
>first, then "itchatta".
>
>Does this help?
I've only heard "mou hairichau?" and "honmani hairichatta?"
Ken
David Nettles
--
David Nettles
email: tetsuo...@hotmail.com
web: http://www.miteyo.org
"Ken Nicolson" <knic...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:eukjpt013oi10pl9b...@4ax.com...
Kevin Gowen
wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Sep 2001 05:05:18 GMT, kevin...@hotmail.com (Kevin Gowen)
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 08 Sep 2001 03:58:07 GMT, "David Nettles"
>><tetsuo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Not really.... In what kind've situation would I have heard this said?
>>>
>>>What does it mean?
>>
>>I perhaps wasn't clear enough. Usually, the woman will say "itchau"
>>first, then "itchatta".
>>
>>Does this help?
>
>I've only heard "mou hairichau?" and
>"honmani hairichatta?"
If you've been asked this, doesn't this tell you that there is
something very wrong with this picture?
>Ken
Kevin R. Gowen, II
Florida State University College of Law
仏勒里達州立大学法学部
Kevin Gowen
<tetsuo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> $B$"$C!#$=$&$G$9!# (B
Does that mean you got it? Of course, if you were getting it you
wouldn't hav eto ask what these expression mean. :)
Kevin R. Gowen, II
Florida State University College of Law
仏勒里達州立大学法学部
Bart Mathias
HN> David Nettles wrote:
HN> > ビールを飲みちゃいました。
HN> > [Ugh!] I drank the beer. [ :( ]
HN> That ought to be ビールを飲んじゃいました. "-te shimau"
HN> --> "-chau", but "-de shimau" --> "-jau".
Picky, picky! I suppose you're not going to like his "hairichau"
either.
Bart
Kevin Gowen
>"HN" == "Hirofumi Nagamura" writes:
>
>HN> David Nettles wrote:
>HN> > $B%S!<%k$r0{$_$A$c$$$^$7$?!# (B
>HN> > [Ugh!] I drank the beer. [ :( ]
>
>HN> That ought to be $B%S!<%k$r0{$s$8$c$$$^$7$? (B. "-te shimau"
>HN> --> "-chau", but "-de shimau" --> "-jau".
>
>Picky, picky! I suppose you're not going to like his "hairichau"
>either.
How was he being picky?
>Bart
David Nettles
(Doh!)
--
David Nettles
email: tetsuo...@hotmail.com
web: http://www.miteyo.org
"Kevin Gowen" <kevin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b9a31b3...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> On Sat, 08 Sep 2001 17:23:06 +0900, Ken Nicolson <knic...@pobox.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 08 Sep 2001 05:05:18 GMT, kevin...@hotmail.com (Kevin Gowen)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>On Sat, 08 Sep 2001 03:58:07 GMT, "David Nettles"
> >><tetsuo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Not really.... In what kind've situation would I have heard this said?
> >>>
> >>>What does it mean?
> >>
> >>I perhaps wasn't clear enough. Usually, the woman will say "itchau"
> >>first, then "itchatta".
> >>
> >>Does this help?
> >
> >I've only heard "mou hairichau?" and
>
> >"honmani hairichatta?"
>
> If you've been asked this, doesn't this tell you that there is
> something very wrong with this picture?
>
> >Ken
>
> Kevin R. Gowen, II
> Florida State University College of Law
> .§eO-￠'B?B-§'aSw-@Sw."
David Nettles
ビールを飲んでしまいます。==> ビールを飲みちゃいます。
--
David Nettles
email: tetsuo...@hotmail.com
web: http://www.miteyo.org
"Hirofumi Nagamura" <naga...@kh.rim.or.jp> wrote in message
news:3B99620D...@kh.rim.or.jp...
Trinker
David Nettles wrote:
>
> Therefore:
>
> ビールを飲んでしまいます。==> ビールを飲みちゃいます。
I don't think that "nomichaimasu" is valid.
"nonjatta", "nomechatta" (I was able to drink it!)
Lei Tanabe
"David Nettles" <tetsuo...@hotmail.com> wrote
> So, it is the difference between:
>
> [Ugh!] I drank the beer. [ :( ]
ビールをたくさん飲ん*じゃ*いました。（飲ん*で*しまいました）
いい気持ちで寝*ちゃ*いました。（寝*て*しまいました）
Lei
Lei Tanabe
"Ken Nicolson" <knic...@pobox.com> wrote
> I've only heard "mou hairichau?" and "honmani hairichatta?"
"mou hai*re*chau"?
Lei
Dave Fossett
> "mou hai*re*chau"?
Shouldn't it be "irechau"?
--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, JAPAN
Kevin Gowen
wrote:
>"Lei Tanabe" wrote...
>
>> "mou hai*re*chau"?
>
>Shouldn't it be "irechau"?
Both hairu/ireru will work. I speak from experience on this one.
>--
>Dave Fossett
>Saitama, JAPAN
>
>
Kevin R. Gowen, II
Florida State University College of Law
仏勒里達州立大学法学部
AlterNETiv
You know, i've never had a problem with someone needing to ask that question.
>I speak from experience on this one.
So do i.
-dr.jonz-
Lei Tanabe
"Kevin Gowen" <kevin...@hotmail.com> wrote
> Both hairu/ireru will work. I speak from experience on this one.
Well, kids often say "kowarechatta", but actually "kowashichatta". :)
Lei
Kevin Gowen
wrote:
>
>"Kevin Gowen" <kevin...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>
>> Both hairu/ireru will work. I speak from experience on this one.
>
>Well, kids often say "kowarechatta", but actually "kowashichatta". :)
I'm not a Japanese man, so I have never heard children say hairu/ireru
in this context.
>Lei
Bart Mathias
LT> Well, kids often say "kowarechatta", but actually
LT> "kowashichatta". :)
In English (or at least in the US) we tell strangers, "(Excuse me),
you dropped your handkerchief."
So the first time I heard someone at an eki tell someone else
"hankechi ochimashita-yo," I felt I had received a great insight into
Japanese culture.
But maybe kid culture is universal.
Bart
Dave Fossett
> In English (or at least in the US) we tell strangers, "(Excuse me),
> you dropped your handkerchief."
>
> So the first time I heard someone at an eki tell someone else
> "hankechi ochimashita-yo," I felt I had received a great insight into
> Japanese culture.
Isn't this similar to the way a Japanese person might say, "両親を亡くし
ています"?
I presume this is perfectly correct Japanese, but to me, it always
conjures up images of the parents having been poisoned and thrown into a
river.
Lei Tanabe
"Bart Mathias" <mat...@hawaii.edu> wrote
> "LT" == "Lei Tanabe" writes:
>
> LT> Well, kids often say "kowarechatta", but actually
> LT> "kowashichatta". :)
>
> In English (or at least in the US) we tell strangers, "(Excuse me),
> you dropped your handkerchief."
>
> So the first time I heard someone at an eki tell someone else
> "hankechi ochimashita-yo," I felt I had received a great insight into
> Japanese culture.
It's up to how it's seen.
When you see a handkerchief falling down, you say "ochimashita-yo."
When you see someone dropped his handkerchief, you say "otoshimashita-yo."
And "lost property" is "otoshi-mono", not "ochi-mono". ;)
Saying like this I also think "-su" verbs have a nuance "intentionally do"
from the structure.
In order to avoid this confusion, people often use intransitive forms
instead and/or add "-te shimau/chau" implying "out of my control".
Lei
Bart Mathias
[I wrote about once being impressed by a Japanese telling another
what would "literally" be "Your handkerchief fell!"]
LT> It's up to how it's seen.
LT> When you see a handkerchief falling down, you say
LT> "ochimashita-yo." When you see someone dropped his handkerchief,
LT> you say "otoshimashita-yo." And "lost property" is "otoshi-mono",
LT> not "ochi-mono". ;)
The fact remains that we have essentially one way to say it in
English.
LT> Saying like this I also think "-su" verbs have a nuance
LT> "intentionally do" from the structure.
You can extend that observation to tadooshi in general. But your own
examples show that it isn't any 100% thing. Would you say
"otoshimashita" if you really believe someone dropped something on
purpose? (Why wouldn't she know already?)
And presumably "otoshimono" is, as you say, "*lost* property," not
really "*discarded* property."
Bart
Lei Tanabe
"Bart Mathias" <mat...@hawaii.edu> wrote
> "LT" == "Lei Tanabe" writes:
>
> [I wrote about once being impressed by a Japanese telling another
> what would "literally" be "Your handkerchief fell!"]
>
> LT> It's up to how it's seen.
> LT> When you see a handkerchief falling down, you say
> LT> "ochimashita-yo." When you see someone dropped his handkerchief,
> LT> you say "otoshimashita-yo." And "lost property" is "otoshi-mono",
> LT> not "ochi-mono". ;)
>
> The fact remains that we have essentially one way to say it in
> English.
It might be a Japanese tendency to express things with how they appear
rather than how they happen?
> LT> Saying like this I also think "-su" verbs have a nuance
> LT> "intentionally do" from the structure.
>
> You can extend that observation to tadooshi in general. But your own
> examples show that it isn't any 100% thing. Would you say
> "otoshimashita" if you really believe someone dropped something on
> purpose? (Why wouldn't she know already?)
"Otoshimashita-yo."
"iinda-yo, wazato otoshitanda-kara."
I'd say intentional or accidental is contextual.
So, there's actually no confusion in the above case.
When stating someone's own wrong-doing, he tends use intransitive verbs
and/or with "te shimau/chau", to avoid responsibility, I suppose.
> And presumably "otoshimono" is, as you say, "*lost* property," not
> really "*discarded* property."
Unintentionally discarded property? :)
Thanks for your intentional satire for my unintentional satire.
Lei