Re: Particle "wa" never in a fragment.
Bart Mathias
> Hello,
>
> I've got a notion about the topic-marking particle "wa" that
> occured to me as I am wrapping up a re-read of Jorden's "Reading
> Japanese."
>
> As Jorden introduces and re-introduces characters, she uses full
> sentences and fragments (I think these are simply or elaborately
> modified nouns) as examples. The full sentences end with a period.
> The fragments do not end with a period.
>
> Now comes topic marker "wa." Am I correct in my hunch that this
> "wa" cannot be used in a fragment (that is in a fragment where a
> noun is modified)? Am I correct in my hunch that everywhere in
> Jorden's book, whenever there is a topical "wa," then it must be
> part of a full sentence that includes a predicate and thus must be
> finished with a period, or alternatively, as a fragment that
> implies a predicate but does not imply it modifies a noun?
You won't mind a "yes and no" answer, will you?
If by fragment, you mean something that one might actually say,
expecting to be understood, then no, it doesn't have to be part of a
fully expressed sentence.
If you mean the speaker expects to hearer to understand what a complete
sentence built on that fragment would mean in the context, then yes, it
has to lead to the understanding of a proposition.
Probably a stilted example, but,
きみ、こんな本読む?
いや、ぼくは...
And maybe that's not what your question was supposed to mean.
Bart
Bart Mathias
> Hello,
>
> I've got a notion about the topic-marking particle "wa" that
> occured to me as I am wrapping up a re-read of Jorden's "Reading
> Japanese."
>
> As Jorden introduces and re-introduces characters, she uses full
> sentences and fragments (I think these are simply or elaborately
> modified nouns) as examples. The full sentences end with a period.
> The fragments do not end with a period.
>
> Now comes topic marker "wa." Am I correct in my hunch that this
> "wa" cannot be used in a fragment (that is in a fragment where a
> noun is modified)?
Rereading to see whether I was answering your question, I became more
aware of the above. My example didn't have a modified noun in it (but of
course I could have made it いやあ、そんな本は...).
If Jorden's "fragments" are just examples of modifiers and nouns, not
utterances (no periods), then there is no more or less reason why there
couldn't be a -wa after the noun than a -wo, -ga, -kara, -da, or
whatever. It sounds like she is giving examples of things that could be
in sentences.
Bart again.
Bart Mathias
> On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:47:32 -1000, Bart Mathias
> <mat...@hawaii.edu> wrote:
>> If Jorden's "fragments" are just examples of modifiers and nouns, not
>> utterances (no periods), then there is no more or less reason why there
>> couldn't be a -wa after the noun than a -wo, -ga, -kara, -da, or
>> whatever. It sounds like she is giving examples of things that could be
>> in sentences.
>
> (Modifier) (Noun)
> as in...
> Tabeta sashimi
> or...
> Iya na furui Kewpie mayo
>
> These fragments appear to be subjects or direct objects or indirect
> objects or potential topics.
>
> My question was aimed at determining whether once "wa" is used,
> then what explicitly follows would either be a full predicate or an
> implied full predicate. "Ga," of course, can be used in a fragment,
> as restating the above two...
> Hanako ga tabeta sashimi
> and...
> Takashi-san ga katta iya na furui Kewpie mayo
>
> I could go out on a limb here and declare "wa" and everything
> before it is not part of what follows it, but acts only as prelude.
Sorry, I hadn't attached enough weight to the "in" of "... 'wa' cannot
be used in a fragment."
Now that I see you mean that "hanako-wa tabeta sashimi" could not be a
fragment (in the special sense of the word), I say you are quite correct.
Bruce
> Hello,
>
> I've got a notion about the topic-marking particle "wa" that
> occured to me as I am wrapping up a re-read of Jorden's "Reading
> Japanese."
>
> As Jorden introduces and re-introduces characters, she uses full
> sentences and fragments (I think these are simply or elaborately
> modified nouns) as examples. The full sentences end with a period.
> The fragments do not end with a period.
>
> Now comes topic marker "wa." Am I correct in my hunch that this
> "wa" cannot be used in a fragment (that is in a fragment where a
> Jorden's book, whenever there is a topical "wa," then it must be
> part of a full sentence that includes a predicate and thus must be
> finished with a period, or alternatively, as a fragment that
> implies a predicate but does not imply it modifies a noun?
>
Can you translate this whole message into Japanese, please?
Bruce
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:45:19 -0700 (PDT), Bruce
>
> <leftlateraldecubi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Can you translate this whole message into Japanese, please?
>
I can understand in Japanese better because Japanese is my mother
tongue like your mother.