Origin of "Igirisu"
nishikawa
or in older days it was "Egeresu" エゲレス．What is the original
language for this? I think doitsu ドイツ comes from
Deutschland. Only "Igirisu" is mysterious. Has it changed as time
passed from "Ingurando" to "Egeresu" and then to "Igirisu"? Or is it
french Anglais. My dictionary (German-Japanese) has "Engelland", (古）
エゲレス.
--
Nishikawa
Nishikawa Trade GmbH nish...@t-online.de
ドイツの高級洋食器 カトラリー／リモージュ（Limoges）の高級洋食器販売
Dave Fossett
news:7mup8r$m3v$1...@news02.btx.dtag.de...
> Is there anyone who has studied why it is "Igirisu" イギリス
> or in older days it was "Egeresu" エゲレス．What is the original
> language for this? I think doitsu ドイツ comes from
> Deutschland. Only "Igirisu" is mysterious. Has it changed as time
> passed from "Ingurando" to "Egeresu" and then to "Igirisu"? Or is it
> french Anglais. My dictionary (German-Japanese) has "Engelland", (古）
> エゲレス.
My Koujirin dictionary says "Igirisu" comes from the Portuguese "Inglez".
"Doitsu" is attributed to both the Dutch "Duitsland" and German "Deutschland".
--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, JAPAN
Jim Breen
The Inglez -> イギリス, Duitsland -> ドイツ sounds rather suspect to me,
especially since the adjectives English/Deutsch map so nicely to the
gairaigo.
To repeat what I said a couple of months ago, I don't particularly
care that イギリス is the common Japanese term for the UK/Great
Britain. What annoys me the practice of back-translating it as "England".
--
Jim Breen School of Computer Science & Software Engineering
Email: j.b...@csse.monash.edu.au Monash University
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/ Clayton VIC 3168 Australia
P: +61 3 9905 3298 F: 9905 3574 ジム・ブリーン@モナシュ大学
nishikawa
Dave Fossett <dajf@REMOVE_THISpo.teleway.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:7muq9u$64p$1...@news.telewaynet.ad.jp...
> nishikawa <nish...@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:7mup8r$m3v$1...@news02.btx.dtag.de...
> > Is there anyone who has studied why it is "Igirisu" イギリス
> > or in older days it was "Egeresu" エゲレス．What is the original
> > language for this? I think doitsu ドイツ comes from
> > Deutschland. Only "Igirisu" is mysterious. Has it changed as time
> > passed from "Ingurando" to "Egeresu" and then to "Igirisu"? Or is
it
> > french Anglais. My dictionary (German-Japanese) has "Engelland",
(古）
> > エゲレス.
>
> My Koujirin dictionary says "Igirisu" comes from the Portuguese
"Inglez".
> "Doitsu" is attributed to both the Dutch "Duitsland" and German
"Deutschland".
>
easy trip. What a strange word "Igirisu" is, if this one is its
origin.
Sean Holland
> Oh really. From "Inglez" to "Igirisu" seems not to be an short and
> easy trip. What a strange word "Igirisu" is, if this one is its
> origin.
>
I've always believed the Portuguese origin. I figure it's just one of those
*old* loanwords, from back in the days of first contact with Europeans, the
days that saw the introduction of "tempura" (look at the twistings of meaning
that ocurred with that word) . I picture some samurai-types squinting in
concentration as the Portuguese sea-captain warns them not to trust the
dreaded Ingerese who would be showing up sooner or later, the dogs. "Who?
What? What's he saying? Oh, he's pointing at a picture of some other
barbarian. What's he saying? Ogeeroosu? I...I...gi something. Can you make
out anything?" "Sounds like Igirisu or something like that." "Igirisu? What's
that, some kind of food?" "Maybe it's the name of the guy in the picture.."
nishikawa
Sean Holland <seho...@islandnet.com> wrote in message
news:3792C9E2...@islandnet.com...
Hahahaha( big laugh ). BTY have you studied the Japanese history.
Although I don't remember completely, I think the first contact with
the Europeans was when a ship of Portugal wrecked at Tanegashima.
Through them matchlocks
(hinawajyu) were introduced. Is this ship or other ship of Portugal
on which two men from "England", William Adams and Yan Yorsten, were
aboard. They are the men who taught Oda Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, and
Tokugawa Ieyasu, how to make matchlocks, where and how Eueope is and
even on American continent. Returning back to the subject, is there
possibility that they William Adams and Yan Yorsten taught Japanese
people that it was "Igirisu".
Have you heard that Yan Yorsten lived in Tokyo, Yaesu. And William
Adams lived in Itoh of Izu. They became both samurai.
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> Hahahaha( big laugh ). BTY have you studied the Japanese history.
> Although I don't remember completely, I think the first contact with
> the Europeans was when a ship of Portugal wrecked at Tanegashima.
> Through them matchlocks
> (hinawajyu) were introduced. Is this ship or other ship of Portugal
> on which two men from "England", William Adams and Yan Yorsten, were
> aboard. They are the men who taught Oda Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, and
You're seriously conflating history. It was actually a Chinese ship, on
which were three Portuguese men -- Fernand Mendes Pinto, Diego Zeimoto
and Christopher Borrello. Their ship was unable to make the planned
landing in the Ryukyu islands and were blown to Tanegashima in 1542, and
landed SAFELY at the port of Nishimura.
Willaim Adams landed in the DUTCH ship "Erasmus" in Bungo in April of
1600. To my understanding of history, he could not have met Nobunaga or
Hideyoshi.
> Tokugawa Ieyasu, how to make matchlocks, where and how Eueope is and
> even on American continent. Returning back to the subject, is there
> possibility that they William Adams and Yan Yorsten taught Japanese
> people that it was "Igirisu".
I doubt it. Adams would have taught "Ingurando" I don't know Dutch, so I
can't suggest what Yorsten would have suggested.
We've always been taught it was from the Portuguese, albeit a
mispronunciation.
> Have you heard that Yan Yorsten lived in Tokyo, Yaesu. And William
> Adams lived in Itoh of Izu. They became both samurai.
Yup.
Tony
nishikawa
nishikawa <nish...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:7mup8r$m3v$1...@news02.btx.dtag.de...
> Is there anyone who has studied why it is "Igirisu" イギリス
> or in older days it was "Egeresu" エゲレス．What is the original
> language for this? I think doitsu ドイツ comes from
> Deutschland. Only "Igirisu" is mysterious. Has it changed as time
> passed from "Ingurando" to "Egeresu" and then to "Igirisu"? Or is it
> french Anglais. My dictionary (German-Japanese) has "Engelland",
(古）
> エゲレス.
Excuse me a bit, but where dose "England" come from. Angelsachse ?
"Angeln" has two meanings, a tribe of "Germane", and Fisher.
Doug Wickstrom
<nish...@t-online.de> excited the ether to say:
>Hahahaha( big laugh ). BTY have you studied the Japanese history.
>Although I don't remember completely, I think the first contact with
>the Europeans was when a ship of Portugal wrecked at Tanegashima.
>Through them matchlocks
>(hinawajyu) were introduced.
So far so good. This was in 1542.
>Is this ship or other ship of Portugal
>on which two men from "England", William Adams and Yan Yorsten, were
>aboard.
No. Dutch ship "Der Liefde," landed in 1600.
> They are the men who taught Oda Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, and
>Tokugawa Ieyasu, how to make matchlocks,
No. The first Japanese-made firearms were made on Tanegashima in
1543, which was before these particular Europeans were born.
>where and how Eueope is and
>even on American continent.
No.
>Returning back to the subject, is there
>possibility that they William Adams and Yan Yorsten taught Japanese
>people that it was "Igirisu".
>Have you heard that Yan Yorsten lived in Tokyo, Yaesu.
No, he returned to Holland aboard "Der Liefde," which was _not_
wrecked.
>And William
>Adams lived in Itoh of Izu. They became both samurai.
Adams perhaps, though not much of a samurai if so, as he married
the daughter of a merchant.
--
Doug Wickstrom
"It's like an Alcatraz around my neck."
--Boston Mayor Thomas Menino on the shortage of city parking spaces
Doug Wickstrom
<ajbr...@indiana.edu> excited the ether to say:
>Willaim Adams landed in the DUTCH ship "Erasmus" in Bungo in April of
>1600
Not Erasmus. The ship had been renamed years earlier to "Der
Liefde."
--
Doug Wickstrom
"Saying something intelligent, as opposed to saying something, is very
difficult even for me. I can imagine how it must be for most people."
--Isaac Asimov
nishikawa
Anthony J. Bryant <ajbr...@indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:379370...@indiana.edu...
> nishikawa wrote:
> >
>
> > Hahahaha( big laugh ). BTY have you studied the Japanese history.
> > Although I don't remember completely, I think the first contact
with
> > the Europeans was when a ship of Portugal wrecked at Tanegashima.
> > Through them matchlocks
Portugal
> > on which two men from "England", William Adams and Yan Yorsten,
were
>
>
> You're seriously conflating history. It was actually a Chinese ship,
on
> which were three Portuguese men -- Fernand Mendes Pinto, Diego
Zeimoto
> and Christopher Borrello. Their ship was unable to make the planned
> landing in the Ryukyu islands and were blown to Tanegashima in 1542,
and
> landed SAFELY at the port of Nishimura.
Thank you for your correction, Tony. Yes, that is the fact.
>
> Willaim Adams landed in the DUTCH ship "Erasmus" in Bungo in April
of
> 1600. To my understanding of history, he could not have met Nobunaga
or
> Hideyoshi.
Yes. They were not any more.
>
>
> > Tokugawa Ieyasu, how to make matchlocks, where and how Eueope is
and
> > even on American continent. Returning back to the subject, is
there
> > possibility that they William Adams and Yan Yorsten taught
Japanese
> > people that it was "Igirisu".
>
> I doubt it. Adams would have taught "Ingurando" I don't know Dutch,
so I
> can't suggest what Yorsten would have suggested.
Yes, that is a natural inference, if Adams were from England. If Adams
didn't like "Igirisu", he could have corrected it. Yorsten could have
taught it in Dutch.
>
> We've always been taught it was from the Portuguese, albeit a
> mispronunciation.
Yes, it is a deviation in this case. And the Portuguese were not in
Japan for a long time.
>
> > Have you heard that Yan Yorsten lived in Tokyo, Yaesu. And William
> > Adams lived in Itoh of Izu. They became both samurai.
>
> Yup.
>
> Tony
John W.
derivation from English, as pronounced at the time it entered into
Japanese. Actually, just <in-gi-ri-shu> bears a resemblance.
John
In article <7mup8r$m3v$1...@news02.btx.dtag.de>,
"nishikawa" <nish...@t-online.de> wrote:
> Is there anyone who has studied why it is "Igirisu" イギリス
> or in older days it was "Egeresu" エゲレス．What is the original
> language for this? I think doitsu ドイツ comes from
> Deutschland. Only "Igirisu" is mysterious. Has it changed as time
> passed from "Ingurando" to "Egeresu" and then to "Igirisu"? Or is it
> french Anglais. My dictionary (German-Japanese) has "Engelland", (古）
> エゲレス.
>
> --
>
> Nishikawa
> Nishikawa Trade GmbH nish...@t-online.de
> ドイツの高級洋食器 カトラリ・踉察織螢癲・・ジュ（Limoges）の高級洋食器販売
>
>
--
The world is as large or small as our minds
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:37:15 -0600, "Anthony J. Bryant"
> <ajbr...@indiana.edu> excited the ether to say:
>
>
> Not Erasmus. The ship had been renamed years earlier to "Der
> Liefde."
Ah, but it's supposed to be bad luck to rename a ship...
But you're right. I was typing "Erasmus" and thinking "That can't be
right..."
Tony
Anthony J. Bryant
> Yes, it is a deviation in this case. And the Portuguese were not in
> Japan for a long time.
Nevertheless, they gave Japan the origins of the *now* Japanese words
manchira, konpeito, karuta, tenpura, bateren, pan....
It's not HOW LONG they were there, but WHAT EFFECT they had.
Tony
H. Takahashi
>
> Dave Fossett <dajf@REMOVE_THISpo.teleway.ne.jp> wrote in message
> news:7muq9u$64p$1...@news.telewaynet.ad.jp...
> >
> "Inglez".
> > "Doitsu" is attributed to both the Dutch "Duitsland" and German
> "Deutschland".
> >
> easy trip. What a strange word "Igirisu" is, if this one is its
> origin.
Shorter and easier than from "Perry" to "Peruri," I suppose.
Hiro Takahashi,
Doug Wickstrom
<ajbr...@indiana.edu> excited the ether to say:
>Doug Wickstrom wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:37:15 -0600, "Anthony J. Bryant"
>> <ajbr...@indiana.edu> excited the ether to say:
>>
>> >Willaim Adams landed in the DUTCH ship "Erasmus" in Bungo in April of
>> >1600
>>
>> Not Erasmus. The ship had been renamed years earlier to "Der
>> Liefde."
>
>Ah, but it's supposed to be bad luck to rename a ship...
I suppose it depends on whether you're a Reformation Protestant
getting rid of saints.
>But you're right. I was typing "Erasmus" and thinking "That can't be
>right..."
--
Doug Wickstrom
"I have nothing else to say. We - we did - if - the - I - I -
the stories are just as they have been said." --Bill Clinton
Jim Breen
>>On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:05:34 -0600, "Anthony J. Bryant"
>><ajbr...@indiana.edu> excited the ether to say:
>>>> Not Erasmus. The ship had been renamed years earlier to "Der
>>>> Liefde."
>>>
>>>Ah, but it's supposed to be bad luck to rename a ship...
>>I suppose it depends on whether you're a Reformation Protestant
>>getting rid of saints.
Erasmus? A saint? (Very interesting character, and certainly someone who
expanded the theological envelope, so to speak. At one stage his books
were on the Spanish Inquisition's list of heretical texts, at the
same time that the Pope was offering him a cardinal's hat. But a saint ....)
Anyway, that old superstition wasn't applied too often. In the late
18th/early 19th centuries, a large proportion of the ships in the
Royal Navy had been captured from either the French or the Dutch, and
most of them were renamed.
Doug Wickstrom
<j...@nexus.dgs.monash.edu.au> excited the ether to say:
>Doug Wickstrom <nims...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:05:34 -0600, "Anthony J. Bryant"
>>><ajbr...@indiana.edu> excited the ether to say:
>
>>>>> Not Erasmus. The ship had been renamed years earlier to "Der
>>>>> Liefde."
>>>>
>>>>Ah, but it's supposed to be bad luck to rename a ship...
>
>>>I suppose it depends on whether you're a Reformation Protestant
>>>getting rid of saints.
>
>Erasmus? A saint? (Very interesting character, and certainly someone who
>expanded the theological envelope, so to speak. At one stage his books
>were on the Spanish Inquisition's list of heretical texts, at the
>same time that the Pope was offering him a cardinal's hat. But a saint ....)
Different Erasmus. This one was the Bishop of Formiae and was
martyred during the reign of the Emperor Diocletian. Perhaps you
know him as "St. Elmo."
--
Doug Wickstrom
"The bomb will never go off. I speak as an expert in explosives."
--Admiral William Leahy
Jim Breen
>>On 20 Jul 1999 06:31:45 GMT, Jim Breen
>><j...@nexus.dgs.monash.edu.au> excited the ether to say:
>>>Erasmus? A saint? (Very interesting character, and certainly someone who
>>>expanded the theological envelope, so to speak. At one stage his books
>>>were on the Spanish Inquisition's list of heretical texts, at the
>>>same time that the Pope was offering him a cardinal's hat. But a saint ....)
>>Different Erasmus. This one was the Bishop of Formiae and was
>>martyred during the reign of the Emperor Diocletian. Perhaps you
>>know him as "St. Elmo."
Well, we haven't actually been introduced .....
Anyway, if a Dutch ship in the late 16th/early 17th century were to
be called "Erasmus", I suspect it was named after their famous
scholar.
Sean Holland
> Different Erasmus. This one was the Bishop of Formiae and was
> martyred during the reign of the Emperor Diocletian. Perhaps you
> know him as "St. Elmo."
>
> --
Man, you could cut the erudition in here with a knife.
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> >> Not Erasmus. The ship had been renamed years earlier to "Der
> >> Liefde."
> >
> >Ah, but it's supposed to be bad luck to rename a ship...
>
> I suppose it depends on whether you're a Reformation Protestant
> getting rid of saints.
Well, seeing as I'm Russian Orthodox.... <G>
Tony
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> >>I suppose it depends on whether you're a Reformation Protestant
> >>getting rid of saints.
>
> expanded the theological envelope, so to speak. At one stage his books
> were on the Spanish Inquisition's list of heretical texts, at the
> same time that the Pope was offering him a cardinal's hat. But a saint ....)
No, Erasmus was the Reformation Protestant.
> Anyway, that old superstition wasn't applied too often. In the late
> 18th/early 19th centuries, a large proportion of the ships in the
> Royal Navy had been captured from either the French or the Dutch, and
> most of them were renamed.
Navies are an exception... For some reason, they aren't surprised when
Bad Things Happen to their ships. <G>
Tony
nishikawa
Jim Breen <j...@nexus.dgs.monash.edu.au> wrote in message
news:7n17en$nuu$1...@towncrier.cc.monash.edu.au...
> Doug Wickstrom <nims...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>On 20 Jul 1999 06:31:45 GMT, Jim Breen
> >><j...@nexus.dgs.monash.edu.au> excited the ether to say:
>
someone who
> >>>expanded the theological envelope, so to speak. At one stage his
books
> >>>were on the Spanish Inquisition's list of heretical texts, at the
> >>>same time that the Pope was offering him a cardinal's hat. But a
saint ....)
>
> >>martyred during the reign of the Emperor Diocletian. Perhaps you
> >>know him as "St. Elmo."
>
>
> Anyway, if a Dutch ship in the late 16th/early 17th century were to
> be called "Erasmus", I suspect it was named after their famous
> scholar.
>
300)
and Erasmus von Rotterdam (philosopher).
As in Santa Maria of Columbus's flag ship it wood seem *much safer* to
name after the saint's name?
--
Nishikawa
Nishikawa Trade GmbH nish...@t-online.de
ドイツの高級洋食器 カトラリー／リモージュ（Limoges）の高級洋食器販売
nishikawa
Yes sir. I would like to thank again all these Baterens who made our
language rich, and for introducing tenpura. We like tenpura and
kastera very
much.
nishikawa
John W. <worth...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7n027d$7ba$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Total, uneducated guess based on what little I know: Could be a
> derivation from English, as pronounced at the time it entered into
> Japanese. Actually, just <in-gi-ri-shu> bears a resemblance.
>
> John
>
ソニックナイト(Sonic Night)
>> derivation from English, as pronounced at the time it entered into
>> Japanese. Actually, just <in-gi-ri-shu> bears a resemblance.
>>
>
And Let's take a closer look
English (in gli sh) --> (I N GU RI SU) -->(people speaking carelessly)
--> IGIRISU!!
?? maybe?
What struck me was all the japanese homepages with 'engrish' versions..
engrish? iglis?
---
Sonic Night..
Gerald B Mathias
: Jim Breen <j...@nexus.dgs.monash.edu.au> wrote:
: > The Inglez -> イギリス, Duitsland -> ドイツ sounds rather suspect to me,
: > especially since the adjectives English/Deutsch map so nicely to the
: > gairaigo.
: Well I don't find `igirisu' sounds like `english' to me. If a
: Japanese person had heard `english' they would have probably said
: `ingurisi'. I don't see why the `sh' would become a `su' on the end.
I don't see "igirisu" that far off (maybe a less toohokuben "igirishi"
would be closer, though).
Certainly a Japanese "g" for "ng" is no worse than Swift's "Nangasaque"
for Nagasaki.
Bart
John W.
Anyone know the pronunciation of English as used several hundred years
ago? Probably not exactly old English, but close I'd imagine.
John
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> Yes sir. I would like to thank again all these Baterens who made our
> language rich, and for introducing tenpura. We like tenpura and
> kastera very
> much.
Oooohhhh.... kasutera.... how could I forget? Mmmmm....
Actually, I'm particularly fond of taiyaki, which I doubt the Portuguese
had anything to do with. <G>
Tony
Don Kirkman
<7n17en$nuu$1...@towncrier.cc.monash.edu.au>:
>Doug Wickstrom <nims...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>On 20 Jul 1999 06:31:45 GMT, Jim Breen
>>><j...@nexus.dgs.monash.edu.au> excited the ether to say:
>>>>Erasmus? A saint? (Very interesting character, and certainly someone who
>>>>expanded the theological envelope, so to speak. At one stage his books
>>>>were on the Spanish Inquisition's list of heretical texts, at the
>>>>same time that the Pope was offering him a cardinal's hat. But a saint ....)
>>>Different Erasmus. This one was the Bishop of Formiae and was
>>>martyred during the reign of the Emperor Diocletian. Perhaps you
>>>know him as "St. Elmo."
Famous for his fire and for being the patron saint of sailors . . .
>Well, we haven't actually been introduced .....
>Anyway, if a Dutch ship in the late 16th/early 17th century were to
>be called "Erasmus", I suspect it was named after their famous
>scholar.
. . . but ISTM not as likely (being a Roman Catholic patron saint and an
ancient and all) to be the source of a Dutch ship's name as a celebrated
Dutchman who lived only a matter of years before the ship Erasmus was
floated. Sans more evidence, I'd vote with Jim on this one.
--
Don
Sean Holland
> Anyone know the pronunciation of English as used several hundred years
> ago? Probably not exactly old English, but close I'd imagine.
>
Well, if you write "old English", that could be what your grandpa speaks, I
suppose. But if you write Old English you're going waaaay back. From about
1600 (Shakespeare on) it is called "Modern English" by certain wizened
scholarly types. You've got your early Modern English, your late Middle
English and so on. You can't just fling the term "Old English" around without
drawing fire from certain quarters.
nishikawa
> In article <7n2lh0$k...@news.Hawaii.Edu>,
> mat...@Hawaii.Edu (Gerald B Mathias) wrote:
> > Ben Bullock (b...@hayamasa.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> > : Jim Breen <j...@nexus.dgs.monash.edu.au> wrote:
> >
> > : > The Inglez -> イギリス, Duitsland -> ドイツ sounds rather
suspect
> to me,
> > : > especially since the adjectives English/Deutsch map so nicely
to
> the
> > : > gairaigo.
> >
> > : Well I don't find `igirisu' sounds like `english' to me. If a
> > : Japanese person had heard `english' they would have probably
said
> > : `ingurisi'. I don't see why the `sh' would become a `su' on the
> end.
> >
> > I don't see "igirisu" that far off (maybe a less toohokuben
"igirishi"
> > would be closer, though).
> >
> > Certainly a Japanese "g" for "ng" is no worse than
> Swift's "Nangasaque"
> > for Nagasaki.
> >
> > Bart
>
years
> ago? Probably not exactly old English, but close I'd imagine.
>
Good question. It has been studied that the Vikings spoke a language
very similar to the language spoken in Germany and the Netherlands at
the time (800-1000) they landed and settled in Britain, and that
they had no problems understanding the language of their cousins the
Anglo-Saxons. So it was "Angeln" because it is the original word of
Anglo. Angeln changed afterwards to English and England. May be at 16C
and 17C it was already English and England and pronounced as we
pronounce them now, because there is only a small pronounciation
variation.
Jim Breen
>>Jim Breen wrote:
>>> >>I suppose it depends on whether you're a Reformation Protestant
>>> >>getting rid of saints.
>>>
>>> expanded the theological envelope, so to speak. At one stage his books
>>> were on the Spanish Inquisition's list of heretical texts, at the
>>> same time that the Pope was offering him a cardinal's hat. But a saint ....)
>>No, Erasmus was the Reformation Protestant.
Hmmm. Erasmus kept himself pretty neutral during those early turbulent years
of the Reformation, with the result that he was claimed by both sides. He
left Basel when it was "reformed", but later returned and died there.
There is no evidence that he ever abandoned Catholicism, although many
scholars suspect he went over at the end.
For a good biographical sketch, see:
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/e/erasmus.htm
Doug Wickstrom
<j...@nexus.dgs.monash.edu.au> excited the ether to say:
>Doug Wickstrom <nims...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>On 20 Jul 1999 06:31:45 GMT, Jim Breen
>>><j...@nexus.dgs.monash.edu.au> excited the ether to say:
>
>>>>Erasmus? A saint? (Very interesting character, and certainly someone who
>>>>expanded the theological envelope, so to speak. At one stage his books
>>>>were on the Spanish Inquisition's list of heretical texts, at the
>>>>same time that the Pope was offering him a cardinal's hat. But a saint ....)
>
>>>Different Erasmus. This one was the Bishop of Formiae and was
>>>martyred during the reign of the Emperor Diocletian. Perhaps you
>>>know him as "St. Elmo."
>
>Well, we haven't actually been introduced .....
>
>Anyway, if a Dutch ship in the late 16th/early 17th century were to
>be called "Erasmus", I suspect it was named after their famous
>scholar.
It would have been a reasonable assumption, if the transom
carving hadn't been a representation of the martyrdom of St.
Erasmus.
--
Doug Wickstrom
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
--Benjamin Franklin
Doug Wickstrom
<ajbr...@indiana.edu> excited the ether to say:
>Jim Breen wrote:
>>
>> >>I suppose it depends on whether you're a Reformation Protestant
>> >>getting rid of saints.
>>
>> Erasmus? A saint? (Very interesting character, and certainly someone who
>> expanded the theological envelope, so to speak. At one stage his books
>> were on the Spanish Inquisition's list of heretical texts, at the
>> same time that the Pope was offering him a cardinal's hat. But a saint ....)
>
>No, Erasmus was the Reformation Protestant.
_That_ Erasmus was a pre-Reformation Catholic reformer.
--
Doug Wickstrom
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates
in the country." --Marion Barry
nishikawa
Anthony J. Bryant <ajbr...@indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:379523...@indiana.edu...
Hahaha people called "Edokko" particulary like to eat taiyaki. It's a
Japanese invention and is quite syominteki 庶民的. Kasutera still
keeps a foreign image and called still Nagasaki kasutera.
muchan
>
> >
> > Anyone know the pronunciation of English as used several hundred
> years
> > ago? Probably not exactly old English, but close I'd imagine.
> >
> > John
> Good question. It has been studied that the Vikings spoke a language
> very similar to the language spoken in Germany and the Netherlands at
> the time (800-1000) they landed and settled in Britain, and that
> they had no problems understanding the language of their cousins the
> Anglo-Saxons. So it was "Angeln" because it is the original word of
> Anglo. Angeln changed afterwards to English and England. May be at 16C
> and 17C it was already English and England and pronounced as we
> pronounce them now, because there is only a small pronounciation
> variation.
>
Wasn't "A" umlauted?
muchan
Sean Holland
wrong with your encoding? I have my browser set for Japanese (Auto-detect).
nishikawa wrote:
> Hahaha people called "Edokko" particulary like to eat taiyaki. It's a
> Japanese invention and is quite syominteki 蠎ｶ豌醍噪.縲 �asutera still
> keeps a foreign image and called still Nagasaki kasutera.
>
> Nishikawa縲����
�礼鼈蜍癡�夸痲�剥眸��鉗鼈蜍癡畧�闔跚鈬���繝峨う繝��鬮倡ｴ壽ｴ矩｣溷勣 繧ｫ繝医Λ繝ｪ繝ｼ�上Μ繝｢繝ｼ繧ｸ繝･��imoges�峨�鬮倡ｴ壽ｴ矩｣溷勣雋ｩ螢ｲ
nishikawa
muchan <muc...@promikra.si> wrote in message
news:3795A69C...@promikra.si...
No, it wasn't. I do believe that it was always Angeln for the German
language as it was Anglais for French.
Anthony J. Bryant
>
> Hahaha people called "Edokko" particulary like to eat taiyaki. It's a
> keeps a foreign image and called still Nagasaki kasutera.
I prefer taiyaki myself.
Oraaa.... Nihonbiki de na. <G>
Tony
nishikawa
Sean Holland <seho...@islandnet.com> wrote in message
news:379576A2...@islandnet.com...
> I get bake moji from the Japanese part of the following. Is there
something
> wrong with your encoding? I have my browser set for Japanese
(Auto-detect).
>
>
> > Hahaha people called "Edokko" particulary like to eat taiyaki.
It's a
still
> > keeps a foreign image and called still Nagasaki kasutera.
My OE 5 displays the said post perfectly without bakemoji.
It was set automatically for Auto-Select and
Unicode(UTF-8). I have noticed that my OE 5 is selecting either
Japanese Auto-select or Unicode(UTF-8) to encode the answers depending
on the post to be answered. i.e. if it is to Muchann and Tony the
answer posts will sometimes use Unicode(UTF-8), and when it is to Mr.
Breen it will always use Japanese Auto-Select.
I've checked your post to see how my OE 5 would be set automatically,
and it was set for Auto-select and Japanese Auto-Select with bakemoji
as you have claimed.
Please try to select Auto-Select and Unicode(UTF-8) to display this
post without bakemoji.
---------
test test テスト てすと
Hahaha people called "Edokko" particulary like to eat taiyaki. It's a
Japanese invention and is quite syominteki 庶民的. Kasutera still
keeps a foreign image and called still Nagasaki kasutera.
--