Translation of calligraphy on Japanese silk painting needed
Dieter Gaffrey
is there anyone who could help with translating calligraphic writing on
a Japanese silk painting (18th/19th ? century).
On the back stick two pieces of paper (one of it probably of recent date)
where, I assume, information is given about the painting.
Here is the URL with the three highly resolved images: http://www.japan.gaffrey.de
Many thanks for any help!!
Dieter
ueshiba
news:3BF24669...@gaffrey.de...
>
> On the back stick two pieces of paper (one of it probably of recent date)
> where, I assume, information is given about the painting.
No, there is no information about the painting.
The first picture reads as follows :
日かす（日数）ふる 旅のうさをも わすれけり
都にて見ぬ 富士のけしきに
余り上手な歌ではないような・・・
（「都にて見ぬ」、意味はわかるんだけれど、もう少し
別の言い方もあるのでは・・・）
The second picture :
此ノ富士画掛物由来
当時大正十一年旧二月廿三日発見シ思フニ同日
富士山ヲ夢ニ見シ事アリ。画賛ノ和歌ノ意、面
白キ処アリ。最モ好ミ嬉シキ画ナルモ、一見廃物同様
之古画ニテ価ヒ甚タ（だ）廉少ニ買得ヌ（？）。其外同日ハ
彼岸中日、春季皇霊祭日、難有（ありがたき）日也。
漢字は常用漢字に直してあります。
極めて俗っぽい文章で、中途半端な教養（めかしたもの）が
却って品を悪くしている というべきか。
The third picture :
（裏返しになっていて読めません。まあ、たいしたことも
書かれていないでしょうが・・・）
上 柴 公 二
Dieter Gaffrey
many thanks for your help - but now I need technical help!!!
I don't know how to correctly decode your characters.
See the result below!!
>
> The first picture reads as follows :
>
> 日かす（日数）ふる 旅のうさをも わすれけり
> 都にて見ぬ 富士のけしきに
>
I am not so firm: I am using Netscape Messanger (V. 4.7).
Which are the correct settings?
Dieter
Wayne Bartlett
need to go to regional settings in the control panel and add japanese to you
languages. If you are not using win2k, i'm sure there is Japanese language
support software out there, maybe someone else can help with that.
naart
"Dieter Gaffrey" <die...@gaffrey.de> wrote in message
news:3BF4E255...@gaffrey.de...
Keiji
Subject: Re: Translation of calligraphy on Japanese silk painting needed
Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:16:07 +0900 from ueshiba
<9t059a$a12$1...@bgsv5906.tk.mesh.ad.jp>
> "Dieter Gaffrey" <die...@gaffrey.de> wrote in message
> news:3BF24669...@gaffrey.de...
> >
> > On the back stick two pieces of paper (one of it probably of recent date)
> > where, I assume, information is given about the painting.
>
> No, there is no information about the painting.
>
> The first picture reads as follows :
>
> 日かす（日数）ふる 旅のうさをも わすれけり
> 都にて見ぬ 富士のけしきに
hikazu furu, tabi no usa womo, wasure keri
miyako nite minu, Fuji no keshiki ni
My tiredness of days of trip has gone
when I saw this view of Fuji in the capital
(snip)
> The second picture :
>
> 此ノ富士画掛物由来
> 当時大正十一年旧二月廿三日発見シ思フニ同日
> 富士山ヲ夢ニ見シ事アリ。画賛ノ和歌ノ意、面
> 白キ処アリ。最モ好ミ嬉シキ画ナルモ、一見廃物同様
> 之古画ニテ価ヒ甚タ（だ）廉少ニ買得ヌ（？）。其外同日ハ
> 彼岸中日、春季皇霊祭日、難有（ありがたき）日也。
The Source Of This Picture Of Fuji
I found this on old calendar Feb 23 in 1922 which day I remember I
dreamt of Mt. Fuji. The poem admiring this picture is something
interesting.
This picture is my most favorite but it looks like so trashy old
picture that I could get it at very cheep price.
And the day was the middle day of the vernal equinox week and Spring
Imperial holyday, happy day.
(snip)
> The third picture :
>
> （裏返しになっていて読めません。
(snip)
It is turned over so cannot be read.
Ken Masuyama
> I'm not a good translater, anyway I'll try it.
>
> Subject: Re: Translation of calligraphy on Japanese silk painting needed
> Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:16:07 +0900 from ueshiba
> <9t059a$a12$1...@bgsv5906.tk.mesh.ad.jp>
> > "Dieter Gaffrey" <die...@gaffrey.de> wrote in message
> > news:3BF24669...@gaffrey.de...
> > >
> > > On the back stick two pieces of paper (one of it probably of recent date)
> > > where, I assume, information is given about the painting.
> >
> > No, there is no information about the painting.
> >
> > The first picture reads as follows :
> >
> > 日かす（日数）ふる 旅のうさをも わすれけり
> > 都にて見ぬ 富士のけしきに
>
> hikazu furu, tabi no usa womo, wasure keri
> miyako nite minu, Fuji no keshiki ni
>
> My tiredness of days of trip has gone
> when I saw this view of Fuji in the capital
"miyako nite minu" = "I have not seen in the capital"
> (snip)
>
> > The second picture :
> >
> > 此ノ富士画掛物由来
> > 当時大正十一年旧二月廿三日発見シ思フニ同日
> > 富士山ヲ夢ニ見シ事アリ。画賛ノ和歌ノ意、面
> > 白キ処アリ。最モ好ミ嬉シキ画ナルモ、一見廃物同様
> > 之古画ニテ価ヒ甚タ（だ）廉少ニ買得ヌ（？）。其外同日ハ
Maybe 買得ス "baitoku su" ?
> > 彼岸中日、春季皇霊祭日、難有（ありがたき）日也。
>
> The Source Of This Picture Of Fuji
> I found this on old calendar Feb 23 in 1922 which day I remember I
2/23 of lunar calendar = Mar 21.
> dreamt of Mt. Fuji. The poem admiring this picture is something
> interesting.
> This picture is my most favorite but it looks like so trashy old
> picture that I could get it at very cheep price.
> And the day was the middle day of the vernal equinox week and Spring
> Imperial holyday, happy day.
Apparently this guy who wrote this comment had no idea who drew the
picture, etc. :-)
>
> (snip)
>
> > The third picture :
> >
> > （裏返しになっていて読めません。
> (snip)
>
> It is turned over so cannot be read.
--
massangeana (Ken Masuyama)
Louise Bremner
> > The third picture :
> >
> > （裏返しになっていて読めません。
> (snip)
>
> It is turned over so cannot be read.
I think this is just a scrap of old paper that was pasted onto the back
as stiffening. There was writing on it, so the paster carefully pasted
it writing-side-down. It's possible that the writing didn't show through
at the time.
________________________________________________________________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
Keiji
<u66869...@asahi-net.or.jp>
> Keiji <us...@mail.goo.ne.jp> writes:
>
> > I'm not a good translater, anyway I'll try it.
> >
> > Subject: Re: Translation of calligraphy on Japanese silk painting needed
> > Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:16:07 +0900 from ueshiba
> > <9t059a$a12$1...@bgsv5906.tk.mesh.ad.jp>
> > > "Dieter Gaffrey" <die...@gaffrey.de> wrote in message
> > > news:3BF24669...@gaffrey.de...
> > > >
> > > > On the back stick two pieces of paper (one of it probably of recent
> date)
> > > > where, I assume, information is given about the painting.
> > >
> > > No, there is no information about the painting.
> > >
> > > The first picture reads as follows :
> > >
> > > 日かす（日数）ふる 旅のうさをも わすれけり
> > > 都にて見ぬ 富士のけしきに
> >
> > hikazu furu, tabi no usa womo, wasure keri
> > miyako nite minu, Fuji no keshiki ni
> >
> > My tiredness of days of trip has gone
> > when I saw this view of Fuji in the capital
>
> "miyako nite minu" = "I have not seen in the capital"
I was misunderstanding "nu" is like that of "kaze tachi nu".
"nuru" may be fit in my case.
Though, I knew Fuji couldn't be seen in the capital at that
time, maybe in Kyoto.
Then my translation should be one of the following;
My tiredness of days of trip has gone
When I viewed Mt. Fuji that I have never seen in the capital
(if this is written on the same side to the picture and the writer is
the painter lived in Kyoto)
or
When I viewed this (painted) Fuji never seen here in the capital
(if this is written on a different side to the picture)
or
When I viewed Mt. Fuji from the capital (Tokyo)
(if on the same side and "nu" is not "not")
or my first translation
(if on a different side and "nu" is not "not").
> > (snip)
> >
> > > The second picture :
> > >
> > > 此ノ富士画掛物由来
> > > 当時大正十一年旧二月廿三日発見シ思フニ同日
> > > 富士山ヲ夢ニ見シ事アリ。画賛ノ和歌ノ意、面
> > > 白キ処アリ。最モ好ミ嬉シキ画ナルモ、一見廃物同様
> > > 之古画ニテ価ヒ甚タ（だ）廉少ニ買得ヌ（？）。其外同日ハ
>
> Maybe 買得ス "baitoku su" ?
I thought as "kai e nu" or "kai e, mata...".
> > > 彼岸中日、春季皇霊祭日、難有（ありがたき）日也。
> >
> > The Source Of This Picture Of Fuji
> > I found this on old calendar Feb 23 in 1922 which day I remember I
>
> 2/23 of lunar calendar = Mar 21.
>
> > dreamt of Mt. Fuji. The poem admiring this picture is something
> > interesting.
> > This picture is my most favorite but it looks like so trashy old
> > picture that I could get it at very cheep price.
> > And the day was the middle day of the vernal equinox week and Spring
> > Imperial holyday, happy day.
>
> Apparently this guy who wrote this comment had no idea who drew the
> picture, etc. :-)
Yes, he just added his history to own it.
How about adding your own history on the picture, Dieter? :)
Lei Tanabe
"Ken Masuyama" <ez3k...@asahi-net.or.jp> wrote
> Keiji <us...@mail.goo.ne.jp> writes:
> > Subject: Re: Translation of calligraphy on Japanese silk painting needed
> > Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:16:07 +0900 from ueshiba
> > >
> > > 都にて見ぬ 富士のけしきに
> >
> > hikazu furu, tabi no usa womo, wasure keri
> > miyako nite minu, Fuji no keshiki ni
> >
> > My tiredness of days of trip has gone
> > when I saw this view of Fuji in the capital
>
> "miyako nite minu" = "I have not seen in the capital"
Grammatically you are right, but if "nu" is a negative aux. verb, the
context doesn't make sense.
And I suspect the writing isn't that old when the capital was in Kyoto.
A mistake for "minuru" or simply "miru"?
> > > The second picture :
> > >
> > > 此ノ富士画掛物由来
> > > 当時大正十一年旧二月廿三日発見シ思フニ同日
> > > 富士山ヲ夢ニ見シ事アリ。画賛ノ和歌ノ意、面
> > > 白キ処アリ。最モ好ミ嬉シキ画ナルモ、一見廃物同様
> > > 之古画ニテ価ヒ甚タ（だ）廉少ニ買得ヌ（？）。其外同日ハ
>
> Maybe 買得ス "baitoku su" ?
I think 買得ヌ is right.
"ata(h)i hanahada renshouni kaienu", i.e. was able to but it fairly cheap.
Lei
Dieter Gaffrey
> My tiredness of days of trip has gone
> When I viewed Mt. Fuji that I have never seen in the capital
> (if this is written on the same side to the picture and the writer is
> the painter lived in Kyoto)
>
> or
>
> When I viewed this (painted) Fuji never seen here in the capital
> (if this is written on a different side to the picture)
>
> or
>
> When I viewed Mt. Fuji from the capital (Tokyo)
> (if on the same side and "nu" is not "not")
>
> or my first translation
> (if on a different side and "nu" is not "not").
Though it might never be known what the author exactly had had in his mind
(whether living in Kyoto/Tokyo and being able to see the Fuji, or not),
I think, the saying itself is a very nice one.
> > > The Source Of This Picture Of Fuji
> > > I found this on old calendar Feb 23 in 1922 which day I remember I
> >
> > 2/23 of lunar calendar = Mar 21.
> >
> > > dreamt of Mt. Fuji. The poem admiring this picture is something
> > > interesting.
> > > This picture is my most favorite but it looks like so trashy old
> > > picture that I could get it at very cheep price.
> > > And the day was the middle day of the vernal equinox week and Spring
> > > Imperial holyday, happy day.
I am interested in some historical background of Japan.
"Spring Imperial holiday" = Which empire period was it? Who was the emperor in 1922?
Does this holiday still exist in Japan (but having a different name)?
> > Apparently this guy who wrote this comment had no idea who drew the
> > picture, etc. :-)
>
> Yes, he just added his history to own it.
> How about adding your own history on the picture, Dieter? :)
>
I you want:
I was the lucky one to buy it at an auction in Lindau (Bavaria, Germany) in autumn this year.
As it "looked like so trashy old" I could get it at a relatively low price.
(Next weekend I will take a photo of it and place on the same homepage.)
It's my first Japanese painting and it reminds me of my stay in Japan a few years ago.
In the auctioneer's catalogue, only the information was given that the painting
is dated to the Meiji period.
Again I need help: When did it start and end?
> > >
> > > It is turned over so cannot be read.
I have mirrored the image.
Now it must be readable, if at all there is anything to be read.
Image3.jpg on http://www.japan.gaffrey.de/
Dieter
Dieter Gaffrey
Because of the great interest, next Monday I will present an image
of the painting itself.
Dieter
Bart Mathias
poem reading
hikazu huru / tabi-no usa-wo-mo / wasurekeri miyako-ni-te minu /
huzi-no kesiki-ni
> > My tiredness of days of trip has gone When I viewed Mt. Fuji that
> > I have never seen in the capital (if this is written on the same
> > side to the picture and the writer is the painter lived in Kyoto)
> > or
> > When I viewed this (painted) Fuji never seen here in the capital
> > (if this is written on a different side to the picture)
> > or
> > When I viewed Mt. Fuji from the capital (Tokyo) (if on the same
> > side and "nu" is not "not")
> > or my first translation
> > (if on a different side and "nu" is not "not").
Is someone trying to shake my confidence in my ability to read bungo?
I see no way of reading "minu" as negative in the above poem, no
matter where it's written, upside down or whatever.
I will confess that I'm not absolutely sure whether "huru" is "pass,
elapse" (but if not, what?) or that "keshiki-ni" kakarus onto
"wasure..." Any chance of a double meaning with the "huru"?
Bart
Bart Mathias
> ...
> hikazu huru / tabi-no usa-wo-mo / wasurekeri miyako-ni-te minu /
> huzi-no kesiki-ni
> Is someone trying to shake my confidence in my ability to read
> bungo? I see no way of reading "minu" as negative in the above
> poem, no matter where it's written, upside down or whatever.
Scratch that, or rather insert "anything but" between "as" and
"negative."
"Miyako-ni-te minu" can't stand alone here; it's the start of the
inverted first line of the poem the proper end of which is the second
line, and it HAS to modify "huzi."
Incredibly, I meant what I wrote when I wrote it, though!
Bart
ueshiba
news:J2.12.jG2l7q...@hawaii.edu...
>>> 日かす（日数）ふる 旅のうさをも わすれけり
>>> 都にて見ぬ 富士のけしきに
> Some person not identified in the only post I saw this in wrote, of a
> poem reading
>
> hikazu huru / tabi-no usa-wo-mo / wasurekeri miyako-ni-te minu /
> huzi-no kesiki-ni
>
> Is someone trying to shake my confidence in my ability to read bungo?
まあ、そう大げさに考えなくっても ：－）
> I see no way of reading "minu" as negative in the above poem, no
> matter where it's written, upside down or whatever.
しかし、連体形の「ぬ」となると、否定の「ぬ」しかないわけ
で、どうしようもないのでは？？
とは言うものの、本当は、否定の「ぬ」でも落ち着きが悪く、
「都にて見ぬ」を
> > I have never seen in the capital
と「見たことがない」と経験の形に理解するのもやはり無理
がありそうです。（従って、バートの直感は正しいわけで
to shake my confidence in my ability なんてことは決して
ございません ：－）
最初投稿した際に
>>> 余り上手な歌ではないような・・・
>>> （「都にて見ぬ」、意味はわかるんだけれど、もう少し
>>> 別の言い方もあるのでは・・・）
と書いたように、この歌そのものが変だということなんでは？
上 柴 公 二
Ken Masuyama
(snip)
> > > > And the day was the middle day of the vernal equinox week and Spring
> > > > Imperial holyday, happy day.
>
> I am interested in some historical background of Japan.
>
> "Spring Imperial holiday" = Which empire period was it? Who was the emperor in 1922?
Taisho Tenno (Yoshihito).
Litterally "Shunki Kourei Sai" = spring imperial-sprit ceremony.
People go to clean cemetary and remember their ancestors on vernal
equinox week and Autumnal equinox week (Higan). Tenno also does so.
Major imperial festival days were national holidays before 1948.
> Does this holiday still exist in Japan (but having a different name)?
Yes, but the name has been changed to "Shunbun no hi" (vernal equinox day).
--
massangeana (Ken Masuyama)
Ken Masuyama
> "Ken Masuyama" <ez3k...@asahi-net.or.jp> wrote
> > Keiji <us...@mail.goo.ne.jp> writes:
> > > Subject: Re: Translation of calligraphy on Japanese silk painting needed
> > > Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:16:07 +0900 from ueshiba
> > > >
> > > > 日かす（日数）ふる 旅のうさをも わすれけり
> > > > 都にて見ぬ 富士のけしきに
> > >
> > > hikazu furu, tabi no usa womo, wasure keri
> > > miyako nite minu, Fuji no keshiki ni
> > >
> > > My tiredness of days of trip has gone
> > > when I saw this view of Fuji in the capital
> >
> > "miyako nite minu" = "I have not seen in the capital"
>
> Grammatically you are right, but if "nu" is a negative aux. verb, the
> context doesn't make sense.
> And I suspect the writing isn't that old when the capital was in Kyoto.
> A mistake for "minuru" or simply "miru"?
東都だとして, 「都で遠くから見たちっぽけな富士からは想像もつかない威容
に, 駿河までの旅の疲れも吹きとぶ心地がした」という意味だとすれば, 否定
で別に構わないのでは?
> > Maybe 買得ス "baitoku su" ?
>
> I think 買得ヌ is right.
> "ata(h)i hanahada renshouni kaienu", i.e. was able to but it fairly cheap.
意味はいいかもしれませんが, もとの字が「ヌ」に見えないんですが……
--
massangeana (Ken Masuyama)
Keiji
<uk7wi9...@asahi-net.or.jp>
> "Lei Tanabe" <l...@clear.net.nz> writes:
>
> > "Ken Masuyama" <ez3k...@asahi-net.or.jp> wrote
> > > Keiji <us...@mail.goo.ne.jp> writes:
> > > > Subject: Re: Translation of calligraphy on Japanese silk painting needed
> > > > Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:16:07 +0900 from ueshiba
> > > > >
> > > > > 日かす（日数）ふる 旅のうさをも わすれけり
> > > > > 都にて見ぬ 富士のけしきに
> > > >
> > > > hikazu furu, tabi no usa womo, wasure keri
> > > > miyako nite minu, Fuji no keshiki ni
> > > >
> > > > My tiredness of days of trip has gone
> > > > when I saw this view of Fuji in the capital
> > >
> > > "miyako nite minu" = "I have not seen in the capital"
> >
> > Grammatically you are right, but if "nu" is a negative aux. verb, the
> > context doesn't make sense.
> > And I suspect the writing isn't that old when the capital was in Kyoto.
> > A mistake for "minuru" or simply "miru"?
>
> 東都だとして, 「都で遠くから見たちっぽけな富士からは想像もつかない威容
> に, 駿河までの旅の疲れも吹きとぶ心地がした」という意味だとすれば, 否定
> で別に構わないのでは?
それだ！
すみません、到らぬばっかりにいろいろ混乱させてしまいまして。
どなたか、この５番目の英語訳をしていただけませんか？
見てのとおり、私は英語力あやしいですから。
（日本語も、か）
ところで東京から駿河までは徒歩で何日くらいでしょう？
> > > Maybe 買得ス "baitoku su" ?
> >
> > I think 買得ヌ is right.
> > "ata(h)i hanahada renshouni kaienu", i.e. was able to but it fairly cheap.
>
> 意味はいいかもしれませんが, もとの字が「ヌ」に見えないんですが……
ってことは「マタ（又）」もダメですかぁ。
ueshiba
news:3bfd5bb8.3948%us...@mail.goo.ne.jp...
> 23 Nov 2001 01:43:29 +0900 from Ken Masuyama
> <uk7wi9...@asahi-net.or.jp>
> >
> > 東都だとして, 「都で遠くから見たちっぽけな富士から
>> は想像もつかない威容に, 駿河までの旅の疲れも吹き
>> とぶ心地がした」という意味だとすれば, 否定
> > で別に構わないのでは?
>
> ところで東京から駿河までは徒歩で何日くらいでしょう？
駿河と言っても結構範囲が広く、宿場で言うと三島を
越えると駿河に入り、島田までが駿河の範囲になり
ます。
川路左衛門尉聖謨は天保9年（1838年）
4月22日昼過ぎ、江戸を発ち
4月23日、川崎を発ち
4月24日、藤沢を発ち
4月25日、小田原を発ち
4月26日、三島を発って駿河に入り
4月27日、由井を発ち
4月28日、岡部を発ち、昼頃、島田の先で大井川を
渡り（ここで駿河は終わる）、掛川に止宿。
従って、江戸を発って5日目から7日目が駿河に相当
します。
また、清河八郎（例の新撰組の前身を組織した）は
安政2年（1855年）、*母親連れ* で逆方向に進み
7月21日の朝、掛川を発ち、大井川を越えた所で駿河に
入り（距離からすると午前中）
7月22日の朝、府中を発ち
7月2３日の朝、吉原を発ち、沼津を越えて駿河を後にし
箱根さえ越えて湯元（相模）に泊まってい
ます。
7月24日の朝遅く、湯元を発ち
7月25日の朝、藤沢を発ち
7月26日の朝、戸塚を発ち、この日の夕方馬喰町着
従って、江戸から沼津までだと4日から5日、島田でさえ
6日から7日で着きますので、「日数ふる」にしては近き
に過ぎるように思えないでもありません。
上 柴 公 二
Bart Mathias
ueshiba] into English.
Unfortunately, I've let the other (four?) versions escape from my
computer, so I'm not entirely sure this is a new one, but how about:
"The doldrums of a journey of many days quite erased from my mind By
a view of Fuji one doesn't see from the capital."
The English ain't hardly poetry, but it seems to be what the original
means.
Bart
ueshiba
news:9tkss0$lpv$1...@bgsv5906.tk.mesh.ad.jp...
前の投稿を補足する意味で・・・。
『東海道中膝栗毛』における、弥次北の暢気旅でも
1日目 神田八丁堀を出て戸塚に泊まり
2日目 戸塚を発ち
3日目 小田原を発ち
4日目 箱根を発ち
5日目 三島を発って、すぐ駿河に入り
原と吉原の間の柏原で、「・・・富士の山正面に
見へてすそ野第一の絶景なり・・・」
6日目 蒲原を発って、江尻の手前で「名におふ田子の
浦」を通り過ぎています。
これ以降は富士より遠ざかりますので、富士を詠むと
すれば5日目か6日目であり、まだまだ旅の始まりなの
ではないでしょうか。
なお、前回書き忘れましたが、
川路聖謨の日程は、日本史籍協会叢書の『川路聖謨文書』
その1に収められた『濃役紀行』に、
清河八郎のそれは、岩波文庫『西遊草』に、依っています。
上 柴 公 二