Do itashimashite
Piphanz
I am not a native japanese speaker, but I'm learning (I think). I have
learned the expression "Do itashimashite" as "you're welcome", but I
have read somewhere else that only dorks in Japan say this :). This
sounds right, because saying "itashimashite" draws attention to the
fact that you have done something you consider worthy of
acknowledgement - that ain't very Japanese.
What would a real Japanese speaker reply if someone said "Arigatou"
after recieving directions or a favour, for example? Something along
the lines of "I have done nothing; I am a louse beneath your shoe,
please squash me and put me out of my misery".
muchan
>
> Hi,
>
> I am not a native japanese speaker, but I'm learning (I think). I have
> learned the expression "Do itashimashite" as "you're welcome", but I
> have read somewhere else that only dorks in Japan say this :). This
> sounds right, because saying "itashimashite" draws attention to the
> fact that you have done something you consider worthy of
> acknowledgement - that ain't very Japanese.
>
Doesn't simply accept the "thankfullness" of other also very "okuyukashii koto"?
I think, you misinterprete the nuance of "doo itashimashite" when I say it,
it's more like "(for your "thank you") how should I react?",
"it's not worth much appreciation.", etc.
> What would a real Japanese speaker reply if someone said "Arigatou"
> after recieving directions or a favour, for example? Something along
> the lines of "I have done nothing; I am a louse beneath your shoe,
> please squash me and put me out of my misery".
What would a real Japanese speaker reply if someone said "Arigarou"?
Doo itashimashite. :)
or I'd say,
Ie, ie, doo itashimashite.
ie, ie, doomo, doomo.
doomo, doomo.
depends on the context/situation.
muchan (a real Japanese, I think... or am I "dork"? I don't know what it means. ;)
Piphanz
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am not a native japanese speaker, but I'm learning (I think). I have
>> learned the expression "Do itashimashite" as "you're welcome", but I
>> have read somewhere else that only dorks in Japan say this :). This
>> sounds right, because saying "itashimashite" draws attention to the
>> fact that you have done something you consider worthy of
>> acknowledgement - that ain't very Japanese.
>>
>
>Doesn't simply accept the "thankfullness" of other also very "okuyukashii koto"?
>
What does okuyukashii koto mean? I'm only a month into my studies so
mada jouzu ja arimasen.
>I think, you misinterprete the nuance of "doo itashimashite" when I say it,
>it's more like "(for your "thank you") how should I react?",
> "it's not worth much appreciation.", etc.
Hm, ok.
>muchan (a real Japanese, I think... or am I "dork"? I don't know what it means. ;)
No, no - a dork is, well, an arrogant idiot :) I quote my source:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/8201/soapbox.html
but, as I say, I'm not a native Japanese speaker, so I have to go with
what people tell me. If you say that doo itashimashite isn't so bad,
I'll say it anyway. I'll probably never speak to a real live japanese
person anyway, so it's pretty academic :)
Tim
----------
Tim/Piphanz
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/piphanz_music.htm
mc
wrote:
>On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:47:56 +0200, muchan <muc...@promikra.si> wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am not a native japanese speaker, but I'm learning (I think). I have
>>> learned the expression "Do itashimashite" as "you're welcome", but I
>>> have read somewhere else that only dorks in Japan say this :). This
>>> sounds right, because saying "itashimashite" draws attention to the
>>> fact that you have done something you consider worthy of
>>> acknowledgement - that ain't very Japanese.
>>>
>>
>>Doesn't simply accept the "thankfullness" of other also very "okuyukashii koto"?
>>
>
>What does okuyukashii koto mean? I'm only a month into my studies so
>mada jouzu ja arimasen.
"refined"
>>I think, you misinterprete the nuance of "doo itashimashite" when I say it,
>>it's more like "(for your "thank you") how should I react?",
>> "it's not worth much appreciation.", etc.
>
>Hm, ok.
>
>
>>muchan (a real Japanese, I think... or am I "dork"? I don't know what it means. ;)
>
>No, no - a dork is, well, an arrogant idiot :) I quote my source:
>
>http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/8201/soapbox.html
>
>but, as I say, I'm not a native Japanese speaker, so I have to go with
>what people tell me. If you say that doo itashimashite isn't so bad,
>I'll say it anyway. I'll probably never speak to a real live japanese
>person anyway, so it's pretty academic :)
I think the main thing is matching the formality. If somebody
just says "thanks" (domo) to you and you reply with a formal, "you're
so very welcome" (doo itashimashite) it just sounds kind of strange.
I'm not sure I would trust the word of somebody claims to have
become so fluent after five months in Japan that natives could
not "distinguish him from [his] Japanese roommate."
mc
Piphanz
>>What does okuyukashii koto mean? I'm only a month into my studies so
>>mada jouzu ja arimasen.
>
>"refined"
Huh? Am I saying something that sounds distinctly un-japanese again?
Do-oh. OK, how would you say "I'm not good at it yet"?
>I think the main thing is matching the formality. If somebody
>just says "thanks" (domo) to you and you reply with a formal, "you're
>so very welcome" (doo itashimashite) it just sounds kind of strange.
That sounds quite right. How would you respond to someone saying
"doomo"? Is this used more often than "arigatou"?
>
>I'm not sure I would trust the word of somebody claims to have
>become so fluent after five months in Japan that natives could
>not "distinguish him from [his] Japanese roommate."
Maybe his Japanese room mate was 2 years old with a very deep voice.
Who knows? :) Anyway, I haven't seen any other reference as to "doo
itashimashite" being a big no-no, so he's probably just full of geri,
huh? But matching politeness is useful, if not vital, in speaking
Japanese, I should think.
----------
Tim/Piphanz
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/piphanz_music.htm
muchan
Piphanz wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I am not a native japanese speaker, but I'm learning (I think). I have
> >> learned the expression "Do itashimashite" as "you're welcome", but I
> >> have read somewhere else that only dorks in Japan say this :). This
> >> sounds right, because saying "itashimashite" draws attention to the
> >> fact that you have done something you consider worthy of
> >> acknowledgement - that ain't very Japanese.
> >>
> >
> >Doesn't simply accept the "thankfullness" of other also very "okuyukashii koto"?
> >
>
> What does okuyukashii koto mean? I'm only a month into my studies so
> mada jouzu ja arimasen.
>
"okuyukashii" means "refined", "graceful" according to my dictionary on the table.
> >I think, you misinterprete the nuance of "doo itashimashite" when I say it,
> >it's more like "(for your "thank you") how should I react?",
> > "it's not worth much appreciation.", etc.
>
> Hm, ok.
>
Really I never thought of the origin, or literal meaning of "doo itashiashite",
but thinking about it, it is "how should I", in humble form.
> >muchan (a real Japanese, I think... or am I "dork"? I don't know what it means. ;)
>
> No, no - a dork is, well, an arrogant idiot :) I quote my source:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/8201/soapbox.html
>
> but, as I say, I'm not a native Japanese speaker, so I have to go with
> what people tell me. If you say that doo itashimashite isn't so bad,
> I'll say it anyway. I'll probably never speak to a real live japanese
> person anyway, so it's pretty academic :)
>
> Tim
>
I wrote "doomo doomo", but sometimes, or more often, I reply to "thank you" by just
raising a hand just a little, as more casual expression of "you're welcome" or
"that's nothing".
(But I don't know if it's "Japanese language" or not. ;)
probably, "doo itashimashite" is the formal answer for formal "arigatou gozaimasu".
If people say less formal form of "than you", reply with less formal "welcome" is
appropriate. That's what your friend tells, I think.
(but please don't pronounce "doo" of your "Do itashimashite" like "to do" in
English. Even Japanese dork never says /duu itashimashite/. 8)
muchan
Piphanz
>I wrote "doomo doomo", but sometimes, or more often, I reply to "thank you" by just
>raising a hand just a little, as more casual expression of "you're welcome" or
>"that's nothing".
>(But I don't know if it's "Japanese language" or not. ;)
It certainly is. :)
>probably, "doo itashimashite" is the formal answer for formal "arigatou gozaimasu".
>If people say less formal form of "than you", reply with less formal "welcome" is
>appropriate. That's what your friend tells, I think.
OK, thanks a lot for your help - it really is useful to get a 'real'
angle on the stylized language course-version of Japanese you tend to
find.
> (but please don't pronounce "doo" of your "Do itashimashite" like "to do" in
> English. Even Japanese dork never says /duu itashimashite/. 8)
LOL. Don't worry. I say something like "Doh itash'mash'te", with the
'doh' sounding somewhat like 'door' without the 'r'.
Lei Tanabe
"mc" <nos...@home.com> wrote
>
> I think the main thing is matching the formality. If somebody
> just says "thanks" (domo) to you and you reply with a formal, "you're
> so very welcome" (doo itashimashite) it just sounds kind of strange.
Yes, it's the same as English "You're welcome."
We don't always say so as an answer to "Thank you", do we?
"No problem", "My pleasure", etc. sometimes no words but a smile.
Lei
Bart Mathias
> I think the main thing is matching the formality. If somebody just
> says "thanks" (domo) to you and you reply with a formal, "you're so
> very welcome" (doo itashimashite) it just sounds kind of strange.
You don't always want to "match formality," unless you mean to match
it with your relative social station.
If your boss says, "Doomo," I wouldn't recommend responding with,
"Iya, iya."
Bart
Bart Mathias
> Really I never thought of the origin, or literal meaning of "doo
> itashiashite", but thinking about it, it is "how should I", in
> humble form.
It sounds to me like a humble "how come?" (dooshite).
In other words, "For my doing what?"
Bart
Bart Mathias
> LOL. Don't worry. I say something like "Doh itash'mash'te", with
> the 'doh' sounding somewhat like 'door' without the 'r'.
You might want to make the "i" clearer in the "...shima..." part, and
*think* it in the "...shite."
Japanese "sh" is rather different from the English variety; an
"itash'mash'te" might sound more like "itashumashite." You'd be
understood, but sound funny.
Bart
Trinker
If I may be permitted to overclarify, in English, "sh" tends to
be a shushing noise, but in Japanese, that's more of a hissing 'sh'.
Closer to Hs than SH, I think.
chance kim
"Bart Mathias" <mat...@hawaii.edu> wrote in message
news:G2.s0.tI21F2...@hawaii.edu...
Japanese don't say, 'Watashiwa nanio itashimashoka' [to himself].
But they can say 'Anatawa nanio itashimasu?'
'Dooitashimashite''s actor is not 'me' but 'you'.
"Dooitashimashite' is 'How kind you are to say 'thank you'
to me, who do not know how to respond to your kindness!'
tia
kim chang-su
seoul
south korea
>
> Bart
Bart Mathias
> "Bart Mathias" <mat...@hawaii.edu> wrote in message
> > "muchan" writes:
> > > Really I never thought of the origin, or literal meaning of
> > > "doo itashiashite", but thinking about it, it is "how should
> > > I", in humble form.
> > It sounds to me like a humble "how come?" (dooshite).
> > In other words, "For my doing what?"
> Japanese don't say, 'Watashiwa nanio itashimashoka' [to himself].
> But they can say 'Anatawa nanio itashimasu?'
> 'Dooitashimashite''s actor is not 'me' but 'you'.
> "Dooitashimashite' is 'How kind you are to say 'thank you'
Musun mal-i-yeyo?
Morunun kes-e tayhaye mal haki anhun phyen-i cohkessciyo!
Bart
muchan
chance kim wrote:
> >
> > > Really I never thought of the origin, or literal meaning of "doo
> > > itashiashite", but thinking about it, it is "how should I", in
> > > humble form.
> >
> > It sounds to me like a humble "how come?" (dooshite).
> >
> > In other words, "For my doing what?"
>
> Japanese don't say, 'Watashiwa nanio itashimashoka' [to himself].
> But they can say 'Anatawa nanio itashimasu?'
> 'Dooitashimashite''s actor is not 'me' but 'you'.
> "Dooitashimashite' is 'How kind you are to say 'thank you'
> to me, who do not know how to respond to your kindness!'
>
> tia
>
> kim chang-su
But... "itasu" is a kenjoo-go, humble form of verb", isn't it?
("nasaru" is sonkee-go, respectful form.)
"Doo itashimashite"'s actor is "me", not "you"...
"watashi-wa nani-o itashimashooka" is natural to me.
"Doo nasaimashita?"'s actor is "you".
muchan
chance kim
"muchan" <muc...@promikra.si> wrote in message
news:3CAEEA9F...@promikra.si...
'Watashiwa nanio itashimashoka' is natural as far as it is used
when the speaker asks someone supposedly superior to him
what he should do, but it is not natural when it is used
when the speaker asks 'himself' or someone supposedly inferior
to him what he should do. Isn't it?
tia
kim chang-su
seoul
south korea
> "Doo nasaimashita?"'s actor is "you".
>
>
> muchan
muchan
chance kim wrote:
>
> > But... "itasu" is a kenjoo-go, humble form of verb", isn't it?
> > ("nasaru" is sonkee-go, respectful form.)
> >
> > "Doo itashimashite"'s actor is "me", not "you"...
> >
> > "watashi-wa nani-o itashimashooka" is natural to me.
>
> 'Watashiwa nanio itashimashoka' is natural as far as it is used
> when the speaker asks someone supposedly superior to him
> what he should do, but it is not natural when it is used
> when the speaker asks 'himself' or someone supposedly inferior
> to him what he should do. Isn't it?
>
When the speaker asks 'himself' in mind, he wouldn't think in humble form,
but when he says in front of someone, he would show humbleness..
and there is no bad thing to use humble form in front of someone supposedly
inferior to him, since behaving "superior" in front of "inferior" people is
indeed showing allogance. Well, some people do, some people don't...
In my interpretation of "doo itashimashite", "how should I (humblely) react
(to your saying me thank you)?", "itasu" is natural, and refering "me".
humbly' yours
muchan
chance kim
In my humble opinion, 'Doitashimashite' is 'How can you be so kind as to say
'thank you' to me, who, overwhelmed by the kindness shown by someone
the expression is addressed to, don't know how to respond?' To this point,
you and I seem to agree. But who 'itasu' whatever is the question on which
we disagree, you thinking the speaker, me thinking the some other.
Who do you think that did what made the speaker feel overwhelmed
by the kindness? The some other? Or the speaker?
tia
kim chang-su
seoul, south korea
>
>
> humbly' yours
>
> muchan
Lei Tanabe
"chance kim" <live...@edunet4u.net> wrote
>
> In my humble opinion, 'Doitashimashite' is 'How can you be so kind as to
say
> 'thank you' to me, who, overwhelmed by the kindness shown by someone
> the expression is addressed to, don't know how to respond?' To this point,
> you and I seem to agree. But who 'itasu' whatever is the question on which
> we disagree, you thinking the speaker, me thinking the some other.
> Who do you think that did what made the speaker feel overwhelmed
> by the kindness? The some other? Or the speaker?
I think you twiddle around the phrase too much.
As muchan said, "itasu" is a humble form of "suru", so the subject should be
the first person.
Lei
chance kim
"Lei Tanabe" <l...@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:3cb0...@clear.net.nz...
Should the subject of the humble form of a verb be always the first person?
tia
kim chang-su
seoul, south korea
>
> Lei
>
>
>
David Fossett
> Should the subject of the humble form of a verb be always the first
person?
Not always. It could be used with a third-person subject if talking
about someone in your family (or company) to someone outside the family
(or company). For example: "Ima chichi ha orimasen."
I can't see how humble forms could ever be used with second-person
subjects, though.
--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, JAPAN
chance kim
"David Fossett" <re...@via.newsgroup> wrote in message
news:%aZr8.4198$TR4.1...@news1.dion.ne.jp...
What about the following hypothetical scene?
At a restaurant.
Waiter: Okyakusankara so onegaio itashimashite oagemashita.
Customer: Sodeshitaka?
Waiter: Onegai itashimasukedo bonyari shinaide kudasai.
The subjects of the verb 'itasu' in the 'humble' form are
firstly a second person and secondly the first person.
tia
kim chang-su
seoul, south korea
>
chance kim
"chance kim" <live...@edunet4u.net> wrote in message
news:m3%r8.67526$PC3.5...@news.bora.net...
'itasu' should have been 'suru'.
Further to the above dialogue,
Customer: Sumimasendeshita.
Waiter: Doitashimashite. Sarani gochumon itashite kudasareba
iidesukedo doitashimashoka?
Customer: Iya. Korede kekkodesu.
Obviously, the subject of the 'doitashimashite' above is the customer,
here hearer, not the waiter, here the speaker.
The subject of 'itashite kudasareba' is the customer,
here the second person, and that of 'doitashimashoka'
is the waiter, here the first person.
Sean Holland
live...@edunet4u.net wrote on 4/7/02 7:48 AM:
I'd say yes, the first person or someone who is equivalent, such as a family
member (when you're speaking with someone outside the family).
David Fossett
> What about the following hypothetical scene?
>
> At a restaurant.
>
> Waiter: Okyakusankara so onegaio itashimashite oagemashita.
>
> Customer: Sodeshitaka?
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say here, but if the waiter
is talking about something the customer did, he wouldn't use "itasu".
Surely it would be something like "Okyakusan kara
onegai wo itadakimashita".
mc
wrote:
>>I think the main thing is matching the formality. If somebody
>>just says "thanks" (domo) to you and you reply with a formal, "you're
>>so very welcome" (doo itashimashite) it just sounds kind of strange.
>
>That sounds quite right. How would you respond to someone saying
>"doomo"? Is this used more often than "arigatou"?
doomo is a very common, casual way of saying thanks. I can't say
that it's necessarily used more often. Also as somebody mentioned,
besides matching formality is, matching social situation is an
important part of the language. So even if you somebody gave you
a casual "thanks," if that person is higher in social stature than
you (a customer, for example), you'll want to reply in a
politer manner.
>Maybe his Japanese room mate was 2 years old with a very deep voice.
>Who knows? :) Anyway, I haven't seen any other reference as to "doo
>itashimashite" being a big no-no, so he's probably just full of geri,
>huh? But matching politeness is useful, if not vital, in speaking
>Japanese, I should think.
Full of geri? Could be. Could also be full of unchi. :)
Yes, of course. The more you know the more you have a chance
of fooling guy on the enjo-kosai line that you're a native
Japanese and get him to send a girl out to your place. ;)
mc
