Re: Use of "iru" (to be)
Sean
> Hello,
>
> I have from Jorden's "Reading Japanese"...
> "Ittoosha to futsuusha wa dochira ga imasu ka."
> (First-class car and standard car, which is it?)
>
> I thought "iru" was used to refer to animate beings. Here it is
> used to refer to train cars.
>
> What is going on here?
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> Paul
I believe that sometimes when referring to a thing like a bus or train
car or ship that is understood to contain people, "iru" is used.バスがあ
る。There's a bus, a big chunk of metal, a machine, an inanimate object.
バスがいる。There's a bus with people in it. BIANANS
muchan
> > I thought "iru" was used to refer to animate beings. Here it is
> > used to refer to train cars.
>
> > What is going on here?
>
> car or ship that is understood to contain people, "iru" is used.バスがあ
> る。There's a bus, a big chunk of metal, a machine, an inanimate object.
> バスがいる。There's a bus with people in it. BIANANS
not important if people is in it.
the vehicles, trains, airplane, etc. as "moving" things, they are
treated like like "animated" things, and usually "iru" is used.
Or in other explanation,
"aru" means it exists there.
"iru" means it (something that can move) is (now, still) there.
muchan (don't know if I can post to this nntp server, but I try)
Jim Breen
> muchan (don't know if I can post to this nntp server, but I try)
It worked!
--
Jim Breen http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
Clayton School of Information Technology,
Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia
ジム・ブリーン@モナシュ大学
jg2...@wonder.ocn.ne.jp
> Hello,
>
> I have from Jorden's "Reading Japanese"...
> "Ittoosha to futsuusha wa dochira ga imasu ka."
> (First-class car and standard car, which is it?)
>
> used to refer to train cars.
>
> What is going on here?
>
>
> Paul
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"What's going on here?" is also what I want to utter in another sense.
Muchan's explanations, I think, are very persuasive.
> "Ittoosha to futsuusha wa dochira ga imasu ka."
To me, this example sentence sounds like 'Jorden's
reading between the lines in Japanese.'
Usually in such situation, '....ni imasuka' is used instead of
'.....ga imasuka.'
In case '....... ga imasuka?' is used, the context may mean
either '...... are you in?' or '...... is the train?'
Further in case of '......is the train?', it sounds like a question,
for example, "Is there an ittoosha in the train there?"
or "Which train has an ittoosha?"
--------------------------------------------------------
B. Ito
Sean
Yeah, it worked. And thanks for the info. I guess that the times I've
heard someone say something like "バスがいる", the bus had people in it,
so I formed a theory that it was the people that elicited the いる.
Since having people in them is a very common characteristic of buses,
nothing dissuaded me of my theory.
I wonder how many other things there are in this world that I think I
understand but that are in fact not the way I conceive of them at all,
the problem being that my theories about them are not contradicted by
what is actually the case. A kind of neutral falsehood; a mistake that
it doesn't matter if you make. And the falsehood is never revealed as
such because it works just as well as the truth. Hmmm.
chance
"mirror" <mai...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:6l6c25p1v0l5553ar...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 03 Jun 2009 06:07:24 GMT, Sean <se...@fakemail.com> wrote:
>>I wonder how many other things there are in this world that I think I
>>understand but that are in fact not the way I conceive of them at all,
>>the problem being that my theories about them are not contradicted by
>>what is actually the case. A kind of neutral falsehood; a mistake that
>>it doesn't matter if you make. And the falsehood is never revealed as
>>such because it works just as well as the truth. Hmmm.
>
> I think.
>
> (I also think suspicioun lies behind great science and politics.)
"Ittoosha to futsuusha wa dochira ga imasu ka."
I am sorry to say that the citation doesn't make sense.
muchan
> muchan wrote:
> > muchan (don't know if I can post to this nntp server, but I try)
>
> It worked!
>
Well, it didn't work, so I copy&pasted to google group... 8(
muchan
Tad Perry
news:78mtv3F...@mid.individual.net...
It's definitely an unexpected sort of utterance from a non-native speaker's
view, but Reading Japanese was definitely meticulously checked by native
Japanese speakers, so we can count on it is a legitimate Japanese sentence.
Even beyond the use of "imasu" for vehicles, the use of "dochira" here is
also a bit surprising.
I'd like to hear more what a native speaker like Muchan has to say about it.
The train most definitely has either both first-class and standard cars OR
it has standard cars only. (Otherwise I would think it meant "Does the train
have first-class cars or standard cars?")
But that seems odd because we should expect there to be at least standard
cars no matter what. So this is not really a case where the train has one or
the other.
Why not just ask: "Ittoosha wa imasu ka?"
So what are the full connotations here?
Is the original question more about which cars have open seats available?
I have a feeling this might be it, but that seems odd, too, because a train
car does not cease to exist just because it has no available seats. (Or does
it?)
tvp
chance
"Tad Perry" <tadp...@comcast.net> wrote
>> "Ittoosha to futsuusha wa dochira ga imasu ka."
>>
>> I am sorry to say that the citation doesn't make sense.
>
> It's definitely an unexpected sort of utterance from a non-native speaker's
> view, but Reading Japanese was definitely meticulously checked by native
> Japanese speakers, so we can count on it is a legitimate Japanese sentence.
I don't think so. The citation in question is absolutely nonsense.
Tad Perry
Hopefully, a native speaker will comment further regarding whether the
sentence is natural and the full implications if it is.
tvp
chance
"Tad Perry" <tadp...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:h06iev$713$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
What a pathetic kind of place is this? Is this the place only native speakers
rule? No, I don't think so. Anybody with firm conviction in his own competence
in Japanese can comment on topics relating to the language.
Returning to the subject in question, where on earth is it a legitimate Japanese?
Trifling with nonsense is nonsense of itself. Out loud, I say that it is invalid.
I suspect the OP has made up his own version of Japanese
and added to it his own versions of translation. If not,
how is it that he wavers between two versions of translation,
quite apart from the book, which must have its one translation
along with an example? After all, the sentence in question is
totally nonsense.
chance
"mirror" <mai...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:ngie25dehfdm2m592...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 10:18:07 +0900, "chance" <cinc...@yahoo.co.kr>
> wrote:
>>I suspect the OP has made up his own version of Japanese
>>and added to it his own versions of translation. If not,
>>how is it that he wavers between two versions of translation,
>>quite apart from the book, which must have its one translation
>>along with an example? After all, the sentence in question is
>>totally nonsense.
>
> perceive it. I don't understand Japanese, so I had to translate it,
> since Jorden does not provide much translation in her text. If you
> have the text, the sentence in question is on page 434, question
> number four. The reason I asked the question in the first place is
> because I doubted my translation and wanted help. And that is what
> this group is about.
Would you please kindly confirm whether your quote
of "Ittoosha to futsuusha wa dochira ga imasu ka."
agrees with the sentence in question on page 434
of Jorden's Reading Japaese? The reason I ask
this of you is that I don't have the book myself
and wonder how it can be that Jorden's book
carries such a nonsensical Japanese sentence.
If that is true, her book deserves being thrown
into a trash bin.
chance
"mirror" <mai...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:2bme259tilrmupnf2...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:10:10 +0900, "chance" <cinc...@yahoo.co.kr>
> wrote:
>>Would you please kindly confirm whether your quote
>>of "Ittoosha to futsuusha wa dochira ga imasu ka."
>>agrees with the sentence in question on page 434
>>of Jorden's Reading Japaese?
>
>
>>The reason I ask
>>this of you is that I don't have the book myself
>>and wonder how it can be that Jorden's book
>>carries such a nonsensical Japanese sentence.
>>If that is true, her book deserves being thrown
>>into a trash bin.
>
> classic tutorial trash. It might be a typo. There are typos in this
> book.
Whatever you like.
muchan
second class
train is there, since normally, a train has both, if the first class
wagon is
there. Another possible case is that this is not about train... but
what is
"ittoosha" outside the context of train?
So, not gramatically, but as common sense, I don't think that the
example
sentense makes sense in real life.
muchan
jg2...@wonder.ocn.ne.jp
> On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:10:10 +0900, "chance" <cinci...@yahoo.co.kr>
> wrote:
>
> >Would you please kindly confirm whether your quote
> >of "Ittoosha to futsuusha wa dochira ga imasu ka."
> >agrees with the sentence in question on page 434
> >of Jorden's Reading Japaese?
>
>
> >The reason I ask
> >this of you is that I don't have the book myself
> >and wonder how it can be that Jorden's book
> >carries such a nonsensical Japanese sentence.
> >If that is true, her book deserves being thrown
> >into a trash bin.
>
> classic tutorial trash. It might be a typo. There are typos in this
> book.
Befoe you say simplty that it might be a typo, I think there is such
a tendency in grammar books to handle unrealistic sentences
academically especially in case the book are written by non-native
speakers.
True native speakers never happen to mistake ',,,,,ga' for '......ni',
except the case of a simple 'typo', of course.
And as I wrote in my previous post of June 3. the example sentence
seems to have something to do with author's personal experience in the
past or in some published materials using '......ga' instead of
'......ni' and
Jorden wanted to look into the true nuanace of the Japanese
unrealistic
sentence.
If I happen to write an English grammar book, I want to look into the
true nuance of some English sences like for example, "There is a
book on A desk." instead of "There is a book on the desk."
Bart Mathias
>> and added to it his own versions of translation. If not,
>> how is it that he wavers between two versions of translation,
>> quite apart from the book, which must have its one translation
>> along with an example? After all, the sentence in question is
>> totally nonsense.
>
> perceive it. I don't understand Japanese, so I had to translate it,
> since Jorden does not provide much translation in her text. If you
> have the text, the sentence in question is on page 434, question
> number four. The reason I asked the question in the first place is
> because I doubted my translation and wanted help. And that is what
> this group is about.
Ten years ago, as I was beginning to clear my office on campus, I hadn't
the slightest inkling that I would ever regret not keeping _Reading
Japanese_.
Presumably question number four, and numbers one, two, and three as
well, has a correct answer. What is the question about? Does it follow a
reading text?
Although chain-smoker Jorden's texts are full of _tabako_ and _haizara_,
etc., indicating that she was involved in the subject matter, I'm sure
she was extremely careful about having the Japanese proofread, if not
written, by native speakers. Wasn't Noda much involved in the Reader?
Bart
Tad Perry
>
> "Tad Perry" <tadp...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:h06iev$713$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> > "chance" <cinc...@yahoo.co.kr> wrote in message
> > news:78na6uF...@mid.individual.net...
> >>
> >> "Tad Perry" <tadp...@comcast.net> wrote
> >>
> >> >> "Ittoosha to futsuusha wa dochira ga imasu ka."
> >> >>
> >> >> I am sorry to say that the citation doesn't make sense.
> >> >
> >> > It's definitely an unexpected sort of utterance from a non-native
> > speaker's
> >> > view, but Reading Japanese was definitely meticulously checked by
native
> >> > Japanese speakers, so we can count on it is a legitimate Japanese
> > sentence.
> >>
> >> I don't think so. The citation in question is absolutely nonsense.
> >
> > Hopefully, a native speaker will comment further regarding whether the
> > sentence is natural and the full implications if it is.
>
> What a pathetic kind of place is this? Is this the place only native
speakers
> rule? No, I don't think so. Anybody with firm conviction in his own
competence
> in Japanese can comment on topics relating to the language.
I never said you can't comment or that your comment is unhelpful, but I
always defer to native speakers in matters like this. Certainly you're not
saying that I should stop deferring to what native speakers tell me. And why
even get angry about the issue in the first place?
> Returning to the subject in question, where on earth is it a legitimate
Japanese?
> Trifling with nonsense is nonsense of itself. Out loud, I say that it is
invalid.
Good for you. I couldn't muster that level of confidence in this case.
Although I couldn't see any reason for the question in question when taken
at face value, I wanted a native speaker's opinion out of admission that I
don't know what I don't know. I'm sorry that ruffles your feathers.
> I suspect the OP has made up his own version of Japanese
> and added to it his own versions of translation. If not,
> how is it that he wavers between two versions of translation,
> quite apart from the book, which must have its one translation
> along with an example? After all, the sentence in question is
> totally nonsense.
My faith in Jorden was totally misplaced. Under the assumption that she
wouldn't make such an error without one of her assistants catching it, I
figured there must be something I don't understand going on here.
Apparently, there's nothing unexpected going on and the sentence is indeed
nonsense.
tvp
jg2...@wonder.ocn.ne.jp
> "chance" <cinci...@yahoo.co.kr> wrote in message
>
> news:78olmiF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> > "Tad Perry" <tadpe...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:h06iev$713$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > > "chance" <cinci...@yahoo.co.kr> wrote in message
> > >news:78na6uF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> > >> "Tad Perry" <tadpe...@comcast.net> wrote
>
> - Show quoted text -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense is not what is written in the text but more in the people's
ways
of handling the matter.
Not only in Japanese any seemingly nonsense sentence may sometimes
have some academical meaning in the study of nuances.
>"Ittoosha to futsuusha wa dochira ga imasu ka."
>(First-class car and standard car, which is it?)
Under such a pretext, the above English translation may be possible
as well as another following completely different English
translations
in the nuance:
"Ittoosha to futsuusha wa dochira ga imasu ka."
(First-class car and standard car, which is it that has more
molesters?)
(First-class car and standard car, which is it that has more
cockroaches?)
-------------------------------------
B. Ito
Ben Finney
> "chance" <cinc...@yahoo.co.kr> wrote in message
> news:78olmiF...@mid.individual.net...
> > What a pathetic kind of place is this? Is this the place only native
> speakers
> > rule? No, I don't think so. Anybody with firm conviction in his own
> competence
> > in Japanese can comment on topics relating to the language.
Anyone with firm conviction in his own competence in *any* subject has
no entitlement to expect *others* to have conviction of that competence.
Evidence of such competence is required, mere conviction is not enough.
> I never said you can't comment or that your comment is unhelpful, but
> I always defer to native speakers in matters like this. Certainly
> you're not saying that I should stop deferring to what native speakers
> tell me. And why even get angry about the issue in the first place?
It appears to be a trait of this person. My newsreader's kill file keeps
me blissfully unaware of most of their anger.
--
\ “You know I could rent you out as a decoy for duck hunters?” |
`\ —Groucho Marx |
_o__) |
Ben Finney
Tad Perry
news:h092ik$p3l$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Bart, this is exactly why I was willing to give the question the benefit of
the doubt. Jorden was known for being very meticulous and everything was
proofread by Japanese assistants. The question may still make some sort of
sense in context, but that would require digging up the text.
tvp
chance
"Tad Perry" <tadp...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:h09btc$88j$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
God bless you.
>
> tvp
>
>
chance
"Ben Finney" <bignose+h...@benfinney.id.au> wrote in message news:87vdnbm...@benfinney.id.au...
God damn you.
Bart Mathias
>
> "Ben Finney" <bignose+h...@benfinney.id.au> wrote in message
> news:87vdnbm...@benfinney.id.au...
>> It appears to be a trait of this person. My newsreader's kill file keeps
>> me blissfully unaware of most of their anger.
>
> God damn you.
I bet He won't do it, because you forgot to say "please"!
chance
"Sean" <se...@fakemail.com> wrote in message news:wqoVl.29168$Db2.27407@edtnps83...
> muchan wrote:
>>>> I thought "iru" was used to refer to animate beings. Here it is
>>>> used to refer to train cars.
>>>> What is going on here?
>>> I believe that sometimes when referring to a thing like a bus or train
>>> car or ship that is understood to contain people, "iru" is used.バスがあ
>>> る。There's a bus, a big chunk of metal, a machine, an inanimate object.
>>> バスがいる。There's a bus with people in it. BIANANS
>>
>> not important if people is in it.
>> the vehicles, trains, airplane, etc. as "moving" things, they are
>> treated like like "animated" things, and usually "iru" is used.
>> Or in other explanation,
>> "aru" means it exists there.
>> "iru" means it (something that can move) is (now, still) there.
>>
>> muchan (don't know if I can post to this nntp server, but I try)
>>
>
> Yeah, it worked. And thanks for the info. I guess that the times I've
> heard someone say something like "バスがいる", the bus had people in it,
What a nonsense you are pouring out?
"バスがいる" is 'the bus had people in it'?
Impossibly hopeless. A teacher of Japanese
in North America at that.
> so I formed a theory that it was the people that elicited the いる.
> Since having people in them is a very common characteristic of buses,
> nothing dissuaded me of my theory.
> I wonder how many other things there are in this world that I think I
> understand but that are in fact not the way I conceive of them at all,
> the problem being that my theories about them are not contradicted by
> what is actually the case. A kind of neutral falsehood; a mistake that
> it doesn't matter if you make. And the falsehood is never revealed as
> such because it works just as well as the truth. Hmmm.
You are a fool to the hilt.
Well, a freak that is.
Trying to pick answers at random on a multiple choice test.
chance
"mirror" <mai...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:v9to25l555t2avusf...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:05:07 +0900, "chance" <cinc...@yahoo.co.kr>
> wrote:
>>What a nonsense you are pouring out?
>>"バスがいる" is 'the bus had people in it'?
>>Impossibly hopeless. A teacher of Japanese
>>in North America at that.
>
> NSOJ. My mom's side of the family all are in Tokyo.
>
> My mom was abolutely against the correctness of "iru" here. Only
> "aru" would be proper. The only way "iru" would be proper is if I
> were asking, for example, which car, say, Tanaka-san were in.
>
> To reprise, "Ittoo-sha to futsuu-sha wa, dochira ga imasu ka?"
In that context, the sentence should be,
Ittoo-sha to futsuu-sha, dochira-ni imasu ka.
Sean
Since you clearly cannot understand written English, you should refrain
from commenting on posts written in English. You're embarrassing
yourself. You might find the study of elementary logic useful.
>
>> so I formed a theory that it was the people that elicited the いる.
>> Since having people in them is a very common characteristic of buses,
>> nothing dissuaded me of my theory.
>> I wonder how many other things there are in this world that I think I
>> understand but that are in fact not the way I conceive of them at all,
>> the problem being that my theories about them are not contradicted by
>> what is actually the case. A kind of neutral falsehood; a mistake that
>> it doesn't matter if you make. And the falsehood is never revealed as
>> such because it works just as well as the truth. Hmmm.
>
> You are a fool to the hilt.
> Well, a freak that is. Trying to pick answers at random on a multiple
> choice test.
Hmm, since this little sparring match began, you have demonstrated an
utter inability to understand written English on three separate
occasions, with a concomitant irrational confidence in your misreadings
that gives rise to absurd proclamations. Quite entertaining, actually.
>
chance
"Sean" <se...@fakemail.com> wrote in message news:XU2Xl.29830$Db2.11078@edtnps83...
Should I care about this asininity?
>
>>
Dan Rempel
[major snipping]
> Should I care about this asininity?
Excellent word; I'll be adding that to 'truthicity' in my lexicon.
Dan
--
Dear Emily:
I collected replies to an article I wrote, and now it's time to
summarize. What should I do?
-- Editor
Dear Editor:
Simply concatenate all the articles together into a big file and
post that. On USENET, this is known as a summary. It lets people read
all the replies without annoying newsreaders getting in the way. Do the
same when summarizing a vote.
-- Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette
Bart Mathias
>> chance wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> You are a fool to the hilt.
>>> Well, a freak that is. Trying to pick answers at random on a multiple
>>> choice test.
>>
>> Hmm, since this little sparring match began, you have demonstrated an
>> utter inability to understand written English on three separate
>> occasions, with a concomitant irrational confidence in your misreadings
>> that gives rise to absurd proclamations. Quite entertaining, actually.
>
> Should I care about this asininity?
Well, anyway, nothing like a little flame war to keep a news group active.
Sean
Yes, it has been quite a while since we had one. But "asininity" trumps
any comeback I might have.
chance
"chance" <cinc...@yahoo.co.kr> wrote in message news:793kfgF...@mid.individual.net...
It would be much better if the sentence were
'Ittoo-sha to futsuu-sha no uchi dochiran-ni imasu ka'.
Or it could be, 'Tanaka-san-wa ittoo-sha to futsuu-sha no uchi
dochiran-ni imasu ka'.
chance
"chance" <cinc...@yahoo.co.kr> wrote in message news:7964i8F...@mid.individual.net...
'dochiran' is a typo of dochira.
Bart Mathias
> Hello,
>
> I have from Jorden's "Reading Japanese"...
> "Ittoosha to futsuusha wa dochira ga imasu ka."
>
> used to refer to train cars.
>
> What is going on here?
I was at the book store Barnes & Noble a half hour ago, and lo and
behold, they had a copy of _Reading Japanese_. I didn't feel like
proffering up $35 for it at the moment, but I did spend a few minutes
skimming it, looking for that question.
I remembered that it was somewhere in the 400's, page-wise, and that it
was question 4. It didn't take me long to find a similar sentence, in
questions to a Reading Selection in, I think, Lesson 22:
一等車と普通車はどうちがいますか。
Maybe Paul has an early version with a major typo. I think it was only
the "-ra" that kept us from guessing what it probably was really meant
to say.
Bart
Bungo
あぁ、なぁ～んだ。
「どうちがいますか」、と 「どちらがいますか」のちがいなんですね。
これで皆さん喧嘩する必要がなくなりましたねぇ。
「大山鳴動して泰山となる。」 いやそうじゃなく、「大山鳴動して鼠一匹」とは
このことですね。
バート先生ありがとう。
ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
B. Ito
chance
"Sean" <se...@fakemail.com> wrote
>> What a nonsense you are pouring out?
>> "バスがいる" is 'the bus had people in it'?
>> Impossibly hopeless. A teacher of Japanese in North America at that.
>
> Since you clearly cannot understand written English, you should refrain
> from commenting on posts written in English. You're embarrassing
> yourself. You might find the study of elementary logic useful.
Look! What a ludicrous farce this insolent fraud of Japanese teacher acts out
in which he commits the temerity of concocting up a new nonsensical theory
out of a fundamentally defective premise about Japanese, of which he knows
nothing. Here is his newly－fangled theory about Japanese:
I guess that the times I've
heard someone say something like "バスがいる", the bus had people in it,
so I formed a theory that it was the people that elicited the いる.
Since having people in them is a very common characteristic of buses,
nothing dissuaded me of my theory.
So much for the asininity.
Coming to consternation, nothing like this impostor of Japanese teacher,
who blurts out all the time limp Japanese in his class of a high school
in North America.
Jim Breen
> Coming to consternation, nothing like this impostor of Japanese teacher,
> who blurts out all the time limp Japanese in his class of a high school
> in North America.
So Chance is one of your former students, eh?
--
Jim Breen http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
Clayton School of Information Technology,
Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia
ジム・ブリーン@モナシュ大学
Sean
> chance wrote:
>> Coming to consternation, nothing like this impostor of Japanese teacher,
>> who blurts out all the time limp Japanese in his class of a high school
>> in North America.
>
> So Chance is one of your former students, eh?
>
Hmm. I'm thinking of all the names of human beings I know, and that one
doesn't ring a bell. Of whom do you speak?
chance
"Jim Breen" <jimb...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:naA_l.19540$y61....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> chance wrote:
>> Coming to consternation, nothing like this impostor of Japanese teacher,
>> who blurts out all the time limp Japanese in his class of a high school
>> in North America.
>
> So Chance is one of your former students, eh?
Ok, that's that.
However, coming to lying in broad daylight, nothing like this bastard liar,
who cries out, Since you clearly cannot understand written English,
you should refrain from commenting on posts written in English.
You're embarrassing yourself. You might find the study
of elementary logic useful.
Who do you think this brazen liar is?
Jim Breen
> Ok, that's that.
> However, coming to lying in broad daylight, nothing like this bastard liar,
> who cries out, Since you clearly cannot understand written English, you
> should refrain from commenting on posts written in English. You're
> embarrassing yourself. You might find the study of elementary logic useful.
>
> Who do you think this brazen liar is?
Let me think ..... chance!
(A laugh a minute, this thread....)
Tad Perry
There was no typo. The original guy didn't even confirm that he was reading
the sentence correctly.
Solved: "What's the difference between a first-class car and a regular car?"
"What's the difference," pal; it was: "what's the difference!"
(He just couldn't stuff those little Japanesey characters into his eyes I
guess. For some people, they just don't go.)
tvp
chance
"Jim Breen" <jimb...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:NUE_l.19580$y61....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> chance wrote:
>> Ok, that's that.
>> However, coming to lying in broad daylight, nothing like this bastard liar,
>> who cries out, Since you clearly cannot understand written English, you
>> should refrain from commenting on posts written in English. You're
>> embarrassing yourself. You might find the study of elementary logic useful.
>>
>> Who do you think this brazen liar is?
>
> Let me think ..... chance!
>
> (A laugh a minute, this thread....)
What is it that has evoked so much of laugh?
And what is the sequence following 'this thread'?
Jim Breen
Well, statements like "Since you clearly cannot understand
written English, you should refrain from commenting on posts
written in English." for starters.
> And what is the sequence following 'this thread'?
Four dots. Ellipses are often best left to fertile
imaginations.
muchan
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:33:40 -1000, Bart Mathias
>
> <math...@hawaii.edu> wrote:
> >一等車と普通車はどうちがいますか。
>
> >Maybe Paul has an early version with a major typo. I think it was only
> >the "-ra" that kept us from guessing what it probably was really meant
> >to say.
>
> right. It is time for me to get the eye exam I've been putting off
> and get fitted for glasses.
>
> I apologize to everyone in this group for my misreading. I am
> deeply embarrassed.
>
Probably, the mistake was about う and っ:
一等車と普通車はどうちがいますか。
一等車と普通車はどっちがいますか。
He read as どっち and replaced it to どちら in mind before typing.
muchan
Tad Perry
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:33:40 -1000, Bart Mathias
>
> >一等車と普通車はどうちがいますか。
> >
> >Maybe Paul has an early version with a major typo. I think it was only
> >the "-ra" that kept us from guessing what it probably was really meant
> >to say.
>
> right. It is time for me to get the eye exam I've been putting off
> and get fitted for glasses.
>
> I apologize to everyone in this group for my misreading. I am
> deeply embarrassed.
>
You did set things on fire there for a while. I can't say that I've never
misread
a Japanese sentence, so I guess there's nothing to do except accept your
apology.
However, it does restore my faith in Jorden. I operated on the assumption
that
she was NOT making a mistake, and in the end, she wasn't.
tvp
gtr
> chance wrote:
>> Ok, that's that.
>> However, coming to lying in broad daylight, nothing like this bastard liar,
>> who cries out, Since you clearly cannot understand written English, you
>> should refrain from commenting on posts written in English. You're
>> embarrassing yourself. You might find the study of elementary logic useful.
>>
>> Who do you think this brazen liar is?
>
> Let me think ..... chance!
>
> (A laugh a minute, this thread....)
It certainly is enlightening. I've been trying to follow the subject
and find it an interesting fable of the participants hereabouts.
If anyone can say, is the book in question, "Reading Japanese" by
Jordon, a worthwhile book on the topic? I am in need of such a book
and it is readily available and inexpensive.
--
Thank you and have a nice day.
gtr
> On Thu, 9 Jul 2009 10:46:30 -0700, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>> If anyone can say, is the book in question, "Reading Japanese" by
>> Jordon, a worthwhile book on the topic? I am in need of such a book
>> and it is readily available and inexpensive.
>
> I think it is the best kanji primer I've ever used, plus the
> exercises in the book serve as a terrific review of every major
> point in Japanese grammar.
Excellent. I'll check it out, thanks.
Bart Mathias
It'll work better if you check it out as "Jorden."
gtr
I assumed someone would note that--it's a meticulous crew hereabouts.
I ordered it.
gtr
> Also, I've gone through Jorden's "Japanese, The Written Language,"
> and the Bojinsha kanji series. They just don't match up.
>
> But, expect to be bored.
I already do wear out on this with any number of other volumes. It's
not boredom, though. There's something about the unyielding drudgery of
it that is exhausting. If I start working on it in the afternoon at
2:30, I'm falling asleep by 2:45. When I work at this stuff I do it in
short spates, alternating with other types of study--and walking around
and stuff. And hopefully in the morning with coffee in hand.
> You will learn very much. Very, very much.
> And be very bored. To save yourself, go lateral, and look at the
> kanji in Nelson and in dictionaries. Review the grammar in Makino
> as the examples come up in Jorden. Then come back to Jorden. And go
> back and forth again.
gtr
>>>> If anyone can say, is the book in question, "Reading Japanese" by
>>>> Jordon, a worthwhile book on the topic? I am in need of such a book
>>>> and it is readily available and inexpensive.
>>>
>>> I think it is the best kanji primer I've ever used, plus the
>>> exercises in the book serve as a terrific review of every major
>>> point in Japanese grammar.
>>
>> It'll work better if you check it out as "Jorden."
>
> I assumed someone would note that--it's a meticulous crew hereabouts.
> I ordered it.
Though my skills are crude I find it a delight to work with.