ぶわっと

[Jim Breen]

I have a question especially for the native Japanese speakers.

In Takemiya Yuyuko's book, "Golden Time 3", page 33,
there is a sentence:
振り向いた香子の長い髪が、ギャルい洋楽のＰＶみたいにぶわっと激しく吹き上がる。

What does the "ぶわっと" mean?

It's been submitted as a dictionary entry for JMdict,
and we are having some problems with both whether it's
a term common enough for inclusion, and what it
actually means.

One thought is that it means "with a whoosh".
Another is that it's an emphatic form of ふわっと.

Comments/advice most welcome.

TIA

Jim

[Chance]

ぶわっと is if anything a mediated form
of ふわっと. Anyway both denote an adverbial
as for rising, as in case of dough swells, wave billows,
wind puffs, feather floats and so on.

CK

[muchan]

On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 8:27:08 AM UTC+2, Jim Breen wrote:
>
> 振り向いた香子の長い髪が、ギャルい洋楽のＰＶみたいにぶわっと激しく吹き上がる。
>
> What does the "ぶわっと" mean?
>
> It's been submitted as a dictionary entry for JMdict,
> and we are having some problems with both whether it's
> a term common enough for inclusion, and what it
> actually means.
>
> One thought is that it means "with a whoosh".
>
> Another is that it's an emphatic form of ふわっと.
>

First, I don't think it's common enough for inclusion.
Anyway, it's a onomatopoeia the authors can use (create?) freely.

ふわっと and 激しく does not fit well.
I feel it's explosive, voluminous movement of mass, but not very fast.
(In "ぶ" part, you observe something is rising slowly,
then "わっ" part it's expands outside...)

muchan

[Chance]

ふわふわ may be the root word for the words in question.
ふわふわ is a description of movement as in the case
of 'fluffy dandelion seeds float in the air.'
Eg. 黄色いたんぽぽが真っ白な綿毛になってふわふわと
飛んでいく。

CK

[Jim Breen]

On Wednesday, 8 May 2013 22:04:31 UTC+10, muchan wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 8:27:08 AM UTC+2, Jim Breen wrote:

> > What does the "ぶわっと" mean?

> First, I don't think it's common enough for inclusion.
> Anyway, it's a onomatopoeia the authors can use (create?) freely.
>
> ふわっと and 激しく does not fit well.
>
> I feel it's explosive, voluminous movement of mass, but not very fast.
> (In "ぶ" part, you observe something is rising slowly,
> then "わっ" part it's expands outside...)

Hmmm. Probably best left out, or at most added to the
ふわっと entry as a more emphatic form.

Thanks, muchan & Chance.

Jim

[Andreas Rusterholz]

2013年5月9日木曜日 9時40分46秒 UTC+9 Jim Breen:

I don't think that is has something to do with ふわふわ、ふわと or ふわっと。
In 広辞苑、日本国語大辞典 (but not yet in WWWJDIC) you find the word ぶわぶわ　（しまりがなく、ふくらんでいるさまを表す）。

The use in your example and in the sentence below makes me think that ぶわっと is a derivation of ぶわぶわ。

In 冬の海 by 宮本百合子(1899-1951) you find:

「どてら」の様なブワッとしたものを着た

The whole sentence is:
まだ三日がすまないので、漁船は皆浜に上って居て、胴の間に船じるしの「のぼり」と松が立ててあるその下で、「あさぎ地」に赤で、裾模様のある、あの漁師特有の「どてら」の様なブワッとしたものを着た、色のまっ黒な男が、「あみ」をつくろったり、立ち話しをしたりして居る。
(see:http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/000311/files/7924_34417.html)

Andreas Rusterholz

[Tad Perry]

Imagine a Venn diagram where "fast," "sudden," "loud" and "brash" all
converge. "Whoosh" is very close.

Separately, are you going to add ギャルい to JDICT? (It's quite
interesting.)

What would be good glosses for it? "Sexy?" "Glamorous?" It's that, but feels
like more.

I think the music video industry has a word for videos that feature sexy
models, but the term is not coming to mind.

Quick stab at it: "Haruko turned her head, long hair rising in a 'whoosh'
just like you see in sexy music videos."

I might come back and improve that later, but it's a good start.

tvp

[Jim Breen]

On Monday, 13 May 2013 09:07:43 UTC+10, Tad Perry wrote:
> Jim Breen wrote:
> > I have a question especially for the native Japanese speakers.
>
> > In Takemiya Yuyuko's book, "Golden Time 3", page 33,
> > there is a sentence:
> > 振り向いた香子の長い髪が、ギャルい洋楽のＰＶみたいにぶわっと激しく吹き上がる。
>
> > What does the "ぶわっと" mean?
> > It's been submitted as a dictionary entry for JMdict,
> > and we are having some problems with both whether it's
> > a term common enough for inclusion, and what it
> > actually means.
>
> > One thought is that it means "with a whoosh".
> > Another is that it's an emphatic form of ふわっと.
> > Comments/advice most welcome.

> Imagine a Venn diagram where "fast," "sudden," "loud" and "brash" all
> converge. "Whoosh" is very close.
>
> Separately, are you going to add ギャルい to JDICT? (It's quite
> interesting.)

I look forward to it being submitted...

> What would be good glosses for it? "Sexy?" "Glamorous?" It's that, but feels
> like more.

Getting the nuances of these sorts of terms can be quite
a challenge.

> I think the music video industry has a word for videos that feature sexy
> models, but the term is not coming to mind.
>
> Quick stab at it: "Haruko turned her head, long hair rising in a 'whoosh'
> just like you see in sexy music videos."
>
> I might come back and improve that later, but it's a good start.

I had rejected the proposed ぶわっと
entry, but it can be revived if there is
good grounds for it. Muchan said it wasn't
really common enough.

Jim

[Bart Mathias]

On Wed, 8 May 2013 21:29:33 -0700 (PDT)
Andreas Rusterholz <ruste...@infoseek.jp> wrote:

> ...

> I don't think that is has something to do with ふわふわ、ふわと or ふわっと。
> In 広辞苑、日本国語大辞典 (but not yet in WWWJDIC) you find the word ぶわぶわ　（しまりがなく、ふくらんでいるさまを表す）。
>
> The use in your example and in the sentence below makes me think that ぶわっと is a derivation of ぶわぶわ。

No question about that, but isn't ぶわぶわ a derivation of ふわふわ, I wonder.

In regular Japanese, words that start with a nigori are probably always
derived from a non-nigori counterpart, with added negative connotation likely.

I wonder if giseigo are different in that respect.
__________
Bart Mathias <mat...@hawaii.edu>

[Tad Perry]

Jim Breen wrote:
> On Monday, 13 May 2013 09:07:43 UTC+10, Tad Perry wrote:
>> Jim Breen wrote:
>>> I have a question especially for the native Japanese speakers.
>>
>>> In Takemiya Yuyuko's book, "Golden Time 3", page 33,
>>> there is a sentence:
>>> 振り向いた香子の長い髪が、ギャルい洋楽のＰＶみたいにぶわっと激しく吹き上がる。
>>
>>> What does the "ぶわっと" mean?
>>> It's been submitted as a dictionary entry for JMdict,
>>> and we are having some problems with both whether it's
>>> a term common enough for inclusion, and what it
>>> actually means.
>>
>>> One thought is that it means "with a whoosh".
>>> Another is that it's an emphatic form of ふわっと.
>>> Comments/advice most welcome.
>
>> Imagine a Venn diagram where "fast," "sudden," "loud" and "brash" all
>> converge. "Whoosh" is very close.
>>
>> Separately, are you going to add ギャルい to JDICT? (It's quite
>> interesting.)
>
> I look forward to it being submitted...

I would if I could get more of a feel for it from some native speakers. If
"sexy" and "glamorous" is good enough, I'd go with that, but I'm hesitant on
this one.

>> What would be good glosses for it? "Sexy?" "Glamorous?" It's that,
>> but feels like more.
>
> Getting the nuances of these sorts of terms can be quite
> a challenge.
>
>> I think the music video industry has a word for videos that feature
>> sexy models, but the term is not coming to mind.
>>
>> Quick stab at it: "Haruko turned her head, long hair rising in a
>> 'whoosh' just like you see in sexy music videos."
>>
>> I might come back and improve that later, but it's a good start.
>
> I had rejected the proposed ぶわっと
> entry, but it can be revived if there is
> good grounds for it. Muchan said it wasn't
> really common enough.

My impression is that Japanese people use this phrase relatively frequently
in conversation. I see it on Japanese TV enough to be familiar with it.

To Muchan: Why do you consider this rare? Am I mistaken?

Regardless, I think a comprehensive dictionary like JDICT should be the
repository anything and everything as long as it can be confirmed to be a
real expression, and this is definitely real.

tvp

[muchan]

>
> My impression is that Japanese people use this phrase relatively
> frequently in conversation. I see it on Japanese TV enough to be
> familiar with it.
>
> To Muchan: Why do you consider this rare? Am I mistaken?
>
> Regardless, I think a comprehensive dictionary like JDICT should be
> the repository anything and everything as long as it can be confirmed
> to be a real expression, and this is definitely real.
>

We create, use and reuse onomatopoeia (擬音語・擬態語) quite freely
without clear definition or meaning but just vague nuance or feeling.
I don't think a dictionary (unless it's dictionary of onomatopoeia)
should have all these expressions. That's the reason.

That said, I googled ぶわっと to see how many hits it gets.
About 3,610,000 results, and first entries are about tear fills
the eye, some about odor, about fire, then hair...
It's hard to describe but common nuance is "slow at first, but
then exposive and can not control". I don't see much relation to
ふわっと (that was my pov from my first post).

So, if you consider 3,610,000 hits to be frequently enough, I don't
oppose to inclde in edict.

muchan

[Tad Perry]

Well, like I said, I'm not sure frequency should be the determining factor.
I do agree with you that despite hearing this all the time, it's a fairly
ill-defined, general-purpose onomatopoeia with a broad range of possible
meaning.

tvp