When can you end questions with a 'no?' ?
etr...@adnc.com
asked ending with a 'no'?
Thanks in advance.
BrianMoriguchi
I think a question which ends with "no" is heard in conversation. it's
rare in written sentence.
Compare the following samples:
"taberuno?" [食べるの？]--You, eat this?
"taberuno desuka?" [食べるのですか？] --Are going to eat this?
"tabemasuka?" [たべますか？]--Do you eat this? or Are you going to
eat this?
"meshiagarimasuka?" [めしあがりますか？]--Would you like to eat
this?
There are strict rules for written Japaense, but almost no rule for
conversational Japanese. I think this makes Japanese learners confused a
lot.
I recommend all of you to throw away textbooks and take real life
materials, such as newspaper, magazines, Japanese video, TV program,
films...and talk to native Japanese speakers.
There are so many Japnese materials on internet, too.
--
/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /
Brian Moriguchi InfoWave
b...@infowave1.com Mountain View, California USA
http://www.infowave1.com/
WWW Localization, Nihongo Forum, World.j
¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥ ¥
Reuben Muns
>etr...@adnc.com wrote:
>>
>> Can someone please explain to me what kind of nihongo questions can be
>> asked ending with a 'no'?
>>
The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",
the speaker was female.
Reuben
Michael Fester
: Reuben Muns wrote:
: >> Can someone please explain to me what kind of nihongo questions can be asked ending with a 'no'?
: > The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",the speaker was female.
: I talk to Japanese children (5 to 15) and they used "no" a lot, even the boys. But when they reach
: adulthood, it seemed the boys use "no" less to end their questions.
Less, yes, but they still use it. Sometimes you hear it on the TV dramas.
FWIW, one of my old bosses would sometimes use "kashira", which they taught
us in Japanese class is NEVER used by men.
Mike
Reuben Muns
>Jimmy Hsu (jh...@pacific.net.sg) wrote:
>: Reuben Muns wrote:
>: >> Can someone please explain to me what kind of nihongo questions can be asked ending with a 'no'?
>: > The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",the speaker was female.
Correction: The question was NOT written by me. The answer WAS.
Please be more careful when quoting prior articles.
Reuben
ryan
> the speaker was female.
>
> Reuben
Isn't that statement a little strong? Adult males do on occasion
use "no" to indicate questions, although of course not as often as
adult females or children. There are probably some pragmatic
restrictions on its usage - it would be interesting if anyone knew of
any studies on that.
Could the usage of "no" also be dialectic? I remember a movie
where this ojiisan from the country seemed to end every other sentence
in "no."
OSM1
>Can someone please explain to me what kind of nihongo questions can be
>asked ending with a 'no'?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
You can ask any question you like with 'no'. However, unless you are
female, most Japanese people will think it a bit odd. Usually, 'no' is
used by women in casual conversation or with their children when asking a
question. Theoretically, it is "softer" than using 'ka' and so women use
it more than men do. An interesting note is that if an English speaking
male who is speaking Japanese uses 'no' at the end of a sentence as a
question, Japanese people assume you have a Japanese girlfriend who is
teaching you Japanese.
Jimmy Hsu
>> Can someone please explain to me what kind of nihongo questions can be asked ending with a 'no'?
> The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",the speaker was female.
Minoru Toda
: Can someone please explain to me what kind of nihongo questions can be
: asked ending with a 'no'?
I think you can end with 'no' anytime. There is no rules in how the
question should end. If you speak Japanese enough, you'll start using it
automatically at the right moment.
Minoru Toda
Michael Fester
: mfe...@pge.com (Michael Fester) wrote:
: >Jimmy Hsu (jh...@pacific.net.sg) wrote:
: >: Reuben Muns wrote:
: >: >> Can someone please explain to me what kind of nihongo questions can be asked ending with a 'no'?
: >: > The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",the speaker was female.
: Correction: The question was NOT written by me. The answer WAS.
: Please be more careful when quoting prior articles.
Uh, pretty clearly, there's an extra ">" between Mr Hsu's question and your
answer. I'm not really certain what you're correcting here.
Mike
Jimmy Hsu
>Sometimes you hear it on the TV dramas. FWIW, one of my old bosses >would sometimes use "kashira",
>which they taught us in Japanese class is NEVER used by men.
Very true. I've heard many men end their utterances with a "kashira". I've probably never heard any
genuine female using "ore" or "boku" for I.
Alan Engel
tone of the question. The use of 'no' by either a male or a female is more intimate
than using 'ka'. An alternative for males is 'kai' which is also used within the
family but harks back to teh male-on-top hierarchy.
Michael Fester
: ryan (c...@popbox4.stanford.edu) wrote:
: : > The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",
: : > the speaker was female.
: : >
: : > Reuben
: : Isn't that statement a little strong? Adult males do on occasion
: : use "no" to indicate questions, although of course not as often as
: : adult females or children. There are probably some pragmatic
: : restrictions on its usage - it would be interesting if anyone knew of
: : any studies on that.
: The "no" is usually used by female or when asking question to children
: since adding "no" will make the question have softer sound (or something
: like that). Adult male do not use "no" often since they consider it
: "female's talking".
Uh, yes they do. You even hear it on the TV dramas.
Mike
Minoru Toda
: > The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",
: > the speaker was female.
: >
: > Reuben
: Isn't that statement a little strong? Adult males do on occasion
: use "no" to indicate questions, although of course not as often as
: adult females or children. There are probably some pragmatic
: restrictions on its usage - it would be interesting if anyone knew of
: any studies on that.
The "no" is usually used by female or when asking question to children
since adding "no" will make the question have softer sound (or something
like that). Adult male do not use "no" often since they consider it
"female's talking".
Minoru Toda
to...@craft.camp.clarkson.edu
Michael Fester
: Michael wrote:
: >Sometimes you hear it on the TV dramas. FWIW, one of my old bosses >would sometimes use "kashira",
: >which they taught us in Japanese class is NEVER used by men.
: Very true. I've heard many men end their utterances with a "kashira". I've probably never heard any
: genuine female using "ore" or "boku" for I.
That's rare, but there was one girl at my old office who referred to herself
as "boku". Never heard any other girl do that, though. (Nice girl, actually,
she just always referred to herself in ordinary conversation that way.)
Mike
Michael Fester
: My father-in-law uses 'no' when speaking to his family and when he wants to soften the
: than using 'ka'. An alternative for males is 'kai' which is also used within the
: family but harks back to teh male-on-top hierarchy.
"kai" (and "dai") are most often used by men when speaking to children.
Mike
Nobby Miura
>From: os...@aol.com (OSM1)
>Subject: Re: When can you end questions with a 'no?' ?
>Date: 20 Mar 1996 10:26:54 -0500
>>asked ending with a 'no'?
>>
>>
>>
>
> You can ask any question you like with 'no'. However, unless you are
>female, most Japanese people will think it a bit odd. Usually, 'no' is
>used by women in casual conversation or with their children when asking a
>question. Theoretically, it is "softer" than using 'ka' and so women use
>it more than men do. An interesting note is that if an English speaking
>male who is speaking Japanese uses 'no' at the end of a sentence as a
>question, Japanese people assume you have a Japanese girlfriend who is
Interesting point (underlined by ^^^^^^^). Although men rarely use "no" in
conversations with men, when it comes to conversations with women and/or
children, men use "no" more often. Say, "benkyo shitano?", "mou tabechatta
no?", "ja, dousuru no?" etc.
Nobby Miura
Michael Fester
: In article <4ip83u$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> os...@aol.com (OSM1) writes:
: > You can ask any question you like with 'no'. However, unless you are
: >female, most Japanese people will think it a bit odd. Usually, 'no' is
: >used by women in casual conversation or with their children when asking a
: >question. Theoretically, it is "softer" than using 'ka' and so women use
: >it more than men do. An interesting note is that if an English speaking
: >male who is speaking Japanese uses 'no' at the end of a sentence as a
: >question, Japanese people assume you have a Japanese girlfriend who is
: >teaching you Japanese. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Interesting point (underlined by ^^^^^^^). Although men rarely use "no" in
^^^^^^
: conversations with men, when it comes to conversations with women and/or
: children, men use "no" more often. Say, "benkyo shitano?", "mou tabechatta
: no?", "ja, dousuru no?" etc.
Uh, I wouldn't say "rarely". I say "less often, in general, than women."
Mike
Ryan
> Very true. I've heard many men end their utterances with a "kashira". I've probably never heard any
> genuine female using "ore" or "boku" for I.
I heard female university students using "boku" once in a while
when I was studying in Nagoya. My Japanese friend told me that
females use it as a kind of unisex self-referent.
This was from the same crowd that always said "konbanwa" no
matter what the time of day, so the "boku" thing might have just been
one of those passing fads.
Ryan Ginstrom
c...@leland.stanford.edu
Reuben Muns
>> The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",
>> the speaker was female.
>>
>> Reuben
> Isn't that statement a little strong? Adult males do on occasion
>use "no" to indicate questions, although of course not as often as
>adult females or children.
I didn't intend for it to be strong. I didn't mean to imply that
males never used "no" to indicate a question. I didn't even mean
to imply I had never heard "no" used by a male. What I *did*
intend to imply is that I *don't remember* hearing it from other
than a female. (Of course at my age there are a *lot* of things I
don't remember.)
Reuben
Ben Bullock
> > The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",
> > the speaker was female.
> Isn't that statement a little strong?
No, actually it is rather meaningless, by itself. All he said was
that he doesn't remember hearing a question ending in "no". You have
to make many extra assumptions before you can logically ascribe any
significance to this.
--
Ben Bullock @ KEK (national lab. for high energy physics, Tsukuba, Japan)
e-mail: b...@theory.kek.jp www: http://theory.kek.jp:80/~ben/
Reuben Muns
>ryan (c...@popbox4.stanford.edu) wrote:
>> > The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",
>> > the speaker was female.
>> Isn't that statement a little strong?
>No, actually it is rather meaningless, by itself. All he said was
>that he doesn't remember hearing a question ending in "no". You have
>to make many extra assumptions before you can logically ascribe any
>significance to this.
Precisely. The key word in my original statement is "remember". I
didn't say it doesn't happen. I didn't even say I had never heard
it happen; just that I didn't remember it.
Reuben
Snowshoes
>
> : > The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",the speaker was female.
Use it anytime you want. It is just sloppy short for ..nodesuka.
That means I think what precedes the "no" should modify a noun
LIKE:
Doko ni iku no (desu ka) ?
or
Otenki ga ii no (desu ka) ?
or again
nemui no (desu ka) ?
BUT NOT
anata no namae ga Joe no (??)
Get the idea?
JLee
Daisaku Itasaka
mfe...@pge.com (Michael Fester) writes:
>: I've probably never heard any
>: genuine female using "ore" or "boku" for I.
>
>That's rare, but there was one girl at my old office who referred
>to herself as "boku".
Cool!
I guess she's got a very nice short hair, like Grace Jones.
# Where is she by the way? :-)
--
Daisaku Itasaka
NEC Corporation, Japan
d-it...@nwk.cl.nec.co.jp
Michael Fester
: In article <4is0ql$f...@news02.comp.pge.com>
: mfe...@pge.com (Michael Fester) writes:
: >: I've probably never heard any
: >: genuine female using "ore" or "boku" for I.
: >
: >That's rare, but there was one girl at my old office who referred
: >to herself as "boku".
: Cool!
: I guess she's got a very nice short hair, like Grace Jones.
Nope. Long hair, big eyes, "typical" Japanese beauty :-)
: # Where is she by the way? :-)
Married. Sorry :-)
Mike
Ryan
> >> > The only times I can remember...
>
Ryan wrote:
> >> Isn't that statement a little strong?
>
> >No, actually it is rather meaningless, by itself
> > ascribe any significance to this.
>
> didn't say it doesn't happen. I didn't even say I had never heard
> it happen; just that I didn't remember it.
Reuben:
Please accept my apologies. I did not mean to put words in your
mouth, but that appears to be what I did. I am truly sorry.
Ryan Ginstrom
c...@leland.stanford.edu
John Reeves
Of course - "Joe na no?"
^^
desperately trying to think of a situation in which you might want to say this
BTW I am skeptical of frequent suggestions that "desu" and "-masu" etc are
NORMAL Japanese and that colloquial Japanese is somehow a contraction or
corruption of the full forms. Better, IMHO, to think of these as "devices"
which can be exploited or demanded in certain situations.
john
John Reeves
Often but not always. I've read this in novels and will dredge out the
references if asked. However, all my attempts at experimenting with these
have met with considerable amusement so I have stopped. If anyone can
explain I'd be greatful.
and am I imagining it, or is there also a sentence final question form
"wai"?
john
Steve Frampton
: In article <4is0ql$f...@news02.comp.pge.com>
: mfe...@pge.com (Michael Fester) writes:
: >: I've probably never heard any
: >: genuine female using "ore" or "boku" for I.
: >
: >That's rare, but there was one girl at my old office who referred
: >to herself as "boku".
: Cool!
: I guess she's got a very nice short hair, like Grace Jones.
: # Where is she by the way? :-)
My Japanese sensei said that the young furio girls in middle school
often like to refer to themselves as "boku", as they think it's "cool".
----------------< LINUX: The choice of a GNU generation. >-----------------
Steve Frampton, Computer Services Operator <fram...@mail.flarc.edu.on.ca>
Frontenac-Lennox & Addington County RCSSB Kingston, Ontario CANADA
Mike Fester
: mfe...@pge.com (Michael Fester) wrote:
: >Alan Engel (aen...@netaxs.com) wrote:
: >: My father-in-law uses 'no' when speaking to his family and when he wants to soften the
: >: tone of the question. The use of 'no' by either a male or a female is more intimate
: >: than using 'ka'. An alternative for males is 'kai' which is also used within the
: >: family but harks back to teh male-on-top hierarchy.
: >"kai" (and "dai") are most often used by men when speaking to children.
: Often but not always. I've read this in novels and will dredge out the
: references if asked. However, all my attempts at experimenting with these
: have met with considerable amusement so I have stopped. If anyone can
: explain I'd be greatful.
You will sometimes here shachou say this to very low underlings. We also
had a buchou who used this (and "ore") when speaking to his wife on the
phone. Not common usage, but I, too have heard it. Most commonly,
though, it is used when addressing children.
Mike
Koji Kawakami
> mfe...@pge.com (Michael Fester) wrote:
> >Alan Engel (aen...@netaxs.com) wrote:
> >: My father-in-law uses 'no' when speaking to his family and when he wants to soften the
> >: tone of the question. The use of 'no' by either a male or a female is more intimate
> >: than using 'ka'. An alternative for males is 'kai' which is also used within the
> >: family but harks back to teh male-on-top hierarchy.
> >
> >"kai" (and "dai") are most often used by men when speaking to children.
> Often but not always. I've read this in novels and will dredge out the
> references if asked. However, all my attempts at experimenting with these
> have met with considerable amusement so I have stopped. If anyone can
> explain I'd be greatful.
> and am I imagining it, or is there also a sentence final question form
> "wai"?
> john
"kai" is generally, I think, men's use for questions or doubts to his wife or
normally subordinates (not to superiors in their society/circumstance)
including children.
ex. sou kai? Is that so?
sono manga omoshiroi kai? Fun manga?
omae sore shita kai? Did you do it? (softly to wife)
omae sore shita ka? Did you do it? (harshly to wife)
I personally never heard of "wai" ending of questions, though there are
lots of examples with normal sentences with "wai" ending.
My 2 yen worth. /koji
Bri@JohnWoo'sRecArea.HK_:-]
I know animation is different from real life, but in the anime "Koko
wa Greenwood", one of the main characters in the final episode
[Igarashii?], a female high school rebel-type, refers to herself as
"boku." As she used to belong to a gang, I wonder if using "boku"
makes her image more stronger.
Brian H.
fram...@mail.flarc.edu.on.ca (Steve Frampton) wrote:
>Daisaku Itasaka (d-it...@nwk.cl.nec.co.jp) wrote:
>: In article <4is0ql$f...@news02.comp.pge.com>
>: mfe...@pge.com (Michael Fester) writes:
>: >: I've probably never heard any
>: >: genuine female using "ore" or "boku" for I.
>: >
>: >That's rare, but there was one girl at my old office who referred
>: >to herself as "boku".
>My Japanese sensei said that the young furio girls in middle school
>often like to refer to themselves as "boku", as they think it's "cool".
>----------------< LINUX: The choice of a GNU generation. >-----------------
>Steve Frampton, Computer Services Operator <fram...@mail.flarc.edu.on.ca>
>Frontenac-Lennox & Addington County RCSSB Kingston, Ontario CANADA
---------------------- ****************** -----------------------
Brian
brih...@sfsu.edu
"Win95 no namae ni kimi o ageru!" ^_^
H.L. van Kooten
>BrianMoriguchi <b...@infowave1.com> wrote:
>The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",
>the speaker was female.
>Reuben
This is NOT true. It is true that questions ending on no SOUND more
female, but a lot of Japanese men use no to end their questions...
Loek.
H.L. van Kooten
>Jimmy Hsu (jh...@pacific.net.sg) wrote:
>: Reuben Muns wrote:
>Less, yes, but they still use it. Sometimes you hear it on the TV dramas.
>FWIW, one of my old bosses would sometimes use "kashira", which they taught
>us in Japanese class is NEVER used by men.
>Mike
Did you notice some men also end their sentences on wa (very
occasionally). It indicates 'giving up' on something, or may even
indicate irritation.
H.L. van Kooten
>Michael wrote:
>>Sometimes you hear it on the TV dramas. FWIW, one of my old bosses >would sometimes use "kashira",
>>which they taught us in Japanese class is NEVER used by men.
>Very true. I've heard many men end their utterances with a "kashira". I've probably never heard any
>genuine female using "ore" or "boku" for I.
Some women (very, very few) call themselves boku (I don't know about
ore). I once met one and I directly asked her why she used boku for
herself. She told me she wasn't aware of the fact boku was mostly used
by men. I have to mentionshe was kinda strange though.
Loek.
Reuben Muns
>rm...@primenet.com (Reuben Muns) wrote:
>>The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",
>>the speaker was female.
>This is NOT true. It is true that questions ending on no SOUND more
>female, but a lot of Japanese men use no to end their questions...
It certainly IS TRUE. I did not say males don't use "no". I did
not say I had never heard it. I only said I didn't REMEMBER it.
Reuben
Ben Bullock
> rm...@primenet.com (Reuben Muns) wrote:
>
> >The only times I can remember hearing a question ending in "no",
> >the speaker was female.
>
>
> This is NOT true.
It may or may not be true, but how on earth do you know what is in Mr.
Mun's memory?
Michael Migdol
>Did you notice some men also end their sentences on wa (very
>occasionally). It indicates 'giving up' on something, or may even
>indicate irritation.
I had been planning to start a thread on this issue, so I'm glad you
brought this up. :-) Here in Kansai (or at least where I work...) it
seems to be *very common* for men to end setences with "wa." It is
usually in the context of "Well, OK, I'll do such-and-such" , and
usually comes after -masu form verbs. It also sounds a little
"flatter" than the "feminine emphasis" wa, which has an upward
intonation.
I'll try to post some specific examples later this week...
- Michael
Mark Barton
mmi...@osk.threeweb.or.jp writes:
>Subject: Men using Wa
>From: Michael Migdol, mmi...@osk.threeweb.or.jp
>Date: Sun, 07 Apr 1996 13:02:21 GMT
I'll be interested to see them. I've noticed this quite frequently in
our research group. It seems to be used for emphasis, but not with
the same feeling of "hey, you need to know this" as "yo". I enquired
and the guys in question definitely thought they were saying the "wa"
which is written "ha" (as opposed to the females' "wa" which is
actually written "wa").
Cheers,
Mark B.
Ben Bullock
> I had been planning to start a thread on this issue, so I'm glad you
> brought this up. :-) Here in Kansai (or at least where I work...) it
> seems to be *very common* for men to end setences with "wa."
It's part of the dialect there.
ryan
> I had been planning to start a thread on this issue, so I'm glad you
> brought this up. :-) Here in Kansai (or at least where I work...) it
> seems to be *very common* for men to end setences with "wa."
Men use the "wa" final in Nagoya, too. It seems to be a softener
for them, but the intonation is falling.
H.L. van Kooten
>>I had been planning to start a thread on this issue, so I'm glad you
>>brought this up. :-) Here in Kansai (or at least where I work...) it
>>seems to be *very common* for men to end setences with "wa." It is
>>usually in the context of "Well, OK, I'll do such-and-such" , and
>>usually comes after -masu form verbs. It also sounds a little
>>"flatter" than the "feminine emphasis" wa, which has an upward
>>intonation.
But it explains why guys from Tokyo always say that men from Kansai
sound like females.
Loek.
AKEBONO TRANSLATION SERVICE
Kaiserstraat 18d - 2311 GR LEIDEN - The Netherlands
TEL/FAX/MODEM: (0)71-512 28 60 EMAIL: loek.va...@tip.nl
HOME PAGE: http://www.tip.nl/users/loek.van.kooten
*****************************************
コミュニケーションを洗練して知的に
Yoko
Yoko Okita
University of Hawaii -Manoa
Mark Barton
yok...@hawaii.edu writes:
>Subject: Re: Men using Wa
>From: Yoko, yok...@hawaii.edu
>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 16:38:34 GMT
>>I think when men use "wa" intonation goes down.
Ah! It does fall, doesn't it. I hadn't consciously noticed. Can you
possibly explain what it means? It seems to be a bit like "yo", but
less emphatic. However maybe that's a wrong impression due to the
fact that the intonation falls.
Cheers,
Mark B.
Mike Leon
>University of Hawaii -Manoa
On a bus in Fukuoka the (male) driver was trying to wake up a drunk and
tell him they were at his stop (Tenjin).
The driver said: "Tenjin desu wa!" with a falling intonation trying to
combine politeness with urgency.
Too polite perhaps. He failed to wake his passenger and the bus went on
its way.
Mike Leon
New Zealand Patent Office
Richard
>
>Can someone please explain to me what kind of nihongo questions can be
>asked ending with a 'no'?
'No' is commonly used by female speakers in informal speech instead of
'ka'. eg. doko iku no.
>