つるめる

[JimBreen]

Greetings,

A proposed new entry has been submitted to the EDICT/JMdict
dictionary: つるめる[v1,vt] [col] to mix together
The submitter commented: "Originally derived from a word used
by criminals in the Edo period. Refers to doing something bad
together."

You can read the full discussion at
http://www.edrdg.org/jmdictdb/cgi-bin/entr.py?svc=jmdict&sid=&e=1057469
or http://tinyurl.com/4trp9rv

The issue is whether this is really a suitable new entry, or
is it just a colloquial transitive form of 連む.

I'd appreciate the advice of the SLJ savants on this.

Cheers

Jim

[muchan]

On Feb 16, 1:25 am, JimBreen <jimbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> A proposed new entry has been submitted to the EDICT/JMdict
> dictionary: つるめる[v1,vt] [col] to mix together
> The submitter commented: "Originally derived from a word used
> by criminals in the Edo period. Refers to doing something bad
> together."
>

> You can read the full discussion athttp://www.edrdg.org/jmdictdb/cgi-bin/entr.py?svc=jmdict&sid=&e=1057469

> or http://tinyurl.com/4trp9rv
>
> The issue is whether this is really a suitable new entry, or
> is it just a colloquial transitive form of 連む.
>
> I'd appreciate the advice of the SLJ savants on this.
>
> Cheers
>
> Jim

I know the word つるむ, but never heard つるめる。

"Doing something bad together" is close but not just right...
It's more about relation, like "form/join/enter the band" to do
something negative.
Maybe they don't do anything negative, but the speaker consider their
band as negative.

I think it's used mostly with と、Someone-と つるむ, sometimes One-と Another-
が つるむ
but I didn't searched the actual usage...

muchan

[JimBreen]

On Feb 16, 7:34 pm, muchan <mucha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 1:25 am, JimBreen <jimbr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > The issue is whether this is really a suitable new entry, or
> > is it just a colloquial transitive form of 連む.

> I know the word つるむ, but never heard つるめる。

>
> "Doing something bad together" is close but not just right...
> It's more about relation, like "form/join/enter the band" to do
> something negative.
> Maybe they don't do anything negative, but the speaker consider their
> band as negative.
>
> I think it's used mostly with と、Someone-と つるむ, sometimes One-と Another-
> が つるむ
> but I didn't searched the actual usage...

Thanks. So you think 連む/つるむ has nuance of doing
something negative?

[muchan]

>
> > "Doing something bad together" is close but not just right...
> > It's more about relation, like "form/join/enter the band" to do
> > something negative.
> > Maybe they don't do anything negative, but the speaker consider their
> > band as negative.
>
> > I think it's used mostly with と、Someone-と つるむ, sometimes One-と Another-
> > が つるむ
> > but I didn't searched the actual usage...
>
> Thanks. So you think 連む/つるむ has nuance of doing
> something negative?

not quite. My point was that the word is not about "doing" something.
It's about making bond, having relation/friendship with someone,
and the speaker making judge that this relation is not good.

I found this link's explanation very acculate:
http://zokugo-dict.com/18tu/turumu.htm

muchan

[JimBreen]

Thanks. We had discussed that 俗語 entry. So it seems that the
meaning has drifted, and whereas it was once mainly used
for people hanging out together for nefarious purposes, now
it is pretty neutral.

I'm not sure how to work that into the entry. Anyway, it doesn't
seem ちるめる needs its own entry.

Many thanks for your help (as ever.)

Cheers

Jim

[chance]

"JimBreen" <jimb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f10f94bb-4974-4bf8...@j9g2000prj.googlegroups.com...

Where did you pick up the word 'chirumeru', sir?
What did you think it possibly mean, if any?
I couldn't find any reference to it anywhere on the web.

Thanks
CK

[JimBreen]

On Feb 18, 6:18 pm, "chance" <cinci...@yahoo.co.kr> wrote:
> "JimBreen" <jimbr...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> > I'm not sure how to work that into the entry. Anyway, it doesn't
> > seem ちるめる needs its own entry.
>
> Where did you pick up the word 'chirumeru', sir?

Sorry, a typo. I meant つるめる. (tu->ti)

I explained all that in the first post of the thread.
See: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.lang.japan/browse_thread/thread/fab4f5e0a2ddf9e2/84278c828a3db16e?show_docid=84278c828a3db16e

> What did you think it possibly mean, if any?

See above.

> I couldn't find any reference to it anywhere on the web.

Plenty of つるめるs

Jim