BOSS Intl. Complaint
Tony Cook
Has anyone used software from Boss International ? I own a copy of
HEC-2 from this firm and am having a problem with support.
The software has a built in license counter. We purchased this software
directly from Boss HEC-2 and my hard drive crashed, now my "license" is
gone......I can no longer access the software I already purchased. The
company says they can upgrade me for $95. I don't think it is fair that
a software company that you bought a package from will not "restore"
your software license to working condition again without a fee, I'VE
ALREADY PAID FOR THE SOFTWARE!!! I don't think I should have to pay
again in order to have it work again. Should I have to pay for a
hardware lock instead? The software has been working for the last 5
years, why do I need to pay more money for it to work again??
Has anyone had a similar experience with this or other companies?
Please respond to:
bit...@up.net
Thanks - Tony
John Carron
Well, unless they are providing a LOT of extras with the software, I'd
forget about BOSS and get it from the source, for free:
http://wrc-hec.usace.army.mil/
It is amazing to me that a company could actually get away with putting
a license "wrapper" around freely available software.
Cheers.
John Carron
The Center for Advanced Decision Support
for Water and Environmental Systems
car...@cadswes.colorado.edu
voice: (303) 492-7397
fax: (303) 492-1347
Chris E. Maeder, M.S.
John Carron <car...@cadswes.colorado.edu> wrote:
>http://wrc-hec.usace.army.mil/
>Cheers.
>
>John Carron
Perhaps you should look before you shoot at someone on an Internet
News Group. BOSS International does not simply repackage FREE
software. Look at our software. Anyone can. It is available FREE for
download.
Our HEC-2 program completely automates generating of HEC-2 card files.
It can cut cross-sections directly from topo maps. It is completely
bi-directional with HEC-RAS. So, you can define you model in HEC-RAS,
and then re-run it in HEC-2 to confirm your answer. It automatically
generates floodplain maps that are FEMA submital ready. It saves the
engineer lots of time, and that means he saves money. That is why
engineering firms buy our software. And we have over 30 different
products available that help hydraulic engineers, hydrologists, and
water resource management specialists.
I would appreciate it if next time you LOOK before you shoot. You do
no one any good by trying to ruin a company's reputation and product
line by YOU being mis-informed.
Sincerely,
Chris E. Maeder, M.S.
Senior Technical Engineer
BOSS International
email: chr...@bossintl.com
US Web Site: http://www.bossintl.com
Europe Web Site: http://www.bossintl.co.uk
Asia Web Site: http://www.bossintl.com.hk
tel: 608-258-9910
fax: 608-258-9943
Chris E. Maeder, M.S.
On Thu, 06 Nov 1997 11:46:30 -0800, you wrote:
>Has anyone used software from Boss International ? I own a copy of
>HEC-2 from this firm and am having a problem with support.
>The software has a built in license counter. We purchased this software
>directly from Boss HEC-2 and my hard drive crashed, now my "license" is
>gone......I can no longer access the software I already purchased. The
>company says they can upgrade me for $95. I don't think it is fair that
>a software company that you bought a package from will not "restore"
>your software license to working condition again without a fee, I'VE
>ALREADY PAID FOR THE SOFTWARE!!! I don't think I should have to pay
>again in order to have it work again. Should I have to pay for a
>hardware lock instead? The software has been working for the last 5
>years, why do I need to pay more money for it to work again??
>Has anyone had a similar experience with this or other companies?
>Please respond to:
>bit...@up.net
>Thanks - Tony
My understanding was that you needed a new version to operate with
Windows 95. From our records you purchased the software on May 15,
1992. Since that time the software has been upgraded numerous times.
As our technical support staff explained, we no longer support
software that is 5 years old. We offered to upgrade you to the most
current version -- with a new manual. And, although the standard
upgrade charge was $195, we reduced that fee to $95.00 for you.
Our software comes with an install program that allows you to install
it and then uninstall if from the hard drive. We provide you 2
installs in the event that the first installation gets damaged. On top
of that, we have provided you with 2 additional resets of your
installs on 08/08/96 and on 05/07/97. We no longer support this older
version and offered to upgrade you to a newer package that would not
have this installation protection check. My understanding is that you
declined this. If this is not the case, you can contact me DIRECTLY at
800-488-4775 and we can get you going with an upgrade that prevents
you from losing your installations.
We pride ourselfs in providing excellent support. In looking at your
company record it shows that our support staff has talked to your
engineers at least 20 times. This was at NO CHARGE. I really don't
think you accomplish anything by trying to "bad mouth us" on an
Internet News Group when in reality we have provided your company with
excellent support and have bent over backwards to try to please you.
John Carron
> >>
> >> Has anyone used software from Boss International ? I own a copy of
> >> HEC-2 from this firm and am having a problem with support.
> >>
> >> The software has a built in license counter. We purchased this software
> >> directly from Boss HEC-2 and my hard drive crashed, now my "license" is
> >> gone......I can no longer access the software I already purchased. The
> >> company says they can upgrade me for $95. I don't think it is fair that
> >> a software company that you bought a package from will not "restore"
> >> your software license to working condition again without a fee, I'VE
> >> ALREADY PAID FOR THE SOFTWARE!!! I don't think I should have to pay
> >> again in order to have it work again. Should I have to pay for a
> >> hardware lock instead? The software has been working for the last 5
> >> years, why do I need to pay more money for it to work again??
> >>
> >> Has anyone had a similar experience with this or other companies?
> >>
> >> Please respond to:
> >> bit...@up.net
> >>
> >> Thanks - Tony
>
> >forget about BOSS and get it from the source, for free:
>
> >http://wrc-hec.usace.army.mil/
>
> >It is amazing to me that a company could actually get away with putting
> >a license "wrapper" around freely available software.
>
> >Cheers.
>
> >
> >John Carron
>
> >The Center for Advanced Decision Support
> >for Water and Environmental Systems
>
> >car...@cadswes.colorado.edu
> >voice: (303) 492-7397
> >fax: (303) 492-1347
>
> Perhaps you should look before you shoot at someone on an Internet
> News Group. BOSS International does not simply repackage FREE
> software. Look at our software. Anyone can. It is available FREE for
> download.
>
Perhaps you should re-read my message. I said
"unless they are providing a LOT of extras with the software,
I'd forget about BOSS and get it from the source".
Having looked at the BOSS webpage, I realize that BOSS provides
enhanced GUI, data/file management, etc. etc. etc. The fact
remains that anyone can get the core software free, a fact which is
certainly
not readily apparent by looking at BOSS' web pages. I found almost no
references
to the Corps of Engineers in your "Products" pages which describe the
BOSS HEC-RAS,
RMS, and HEC-2 software you sell. While it may be obvious to some that
BOSS is
selling an enhanced version of FREEWARE, it is not obvious to all. Tony
did not
know (he emailed me), and was happy to be able to get the software for
free.
> Our HEC-2 program completely automates generating of HEC-2 card files.
> It can cut cross-sections directly from topo maps. It is completely
> bi-directional with HEC-RAS. So, you can define you model in HEC-RAS,
> and then re-run it in HEC-2 to confirm your answer. It automatically
> generates floodplain maps that are FEMA submital ready. It saves the
> engineer lots of time, and that means he saves money. That is why
> engineering firms buy our software. And we have over 30 different
> products available that help hydraulic engineers, hydrologists, and
> water resource management specialists.
>
> I would appreciate it if next time you LOOK before you shoot. You do
> no one any good by trying to ruin a company's reputation and product
> line by YOU being mis-informed.
Perhaps if BOSS had clarified for Tony what he was getting from them,
and
that he had the option of getting the "core" software for free, this
problem
could have been avoided. I believe any company selling a product based
on
freely available software should clearly distinguish between their
"add-ons"
and the original software. Tony apparently did not know, and BOSS
apparently
felt no obligation to tell him.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris E. Maeder, M.S.
> Senior Technical Engineer
> BOSS International
> email: chr...@bossintl.com
> US Web Site: http://www.bossintl.com
> Europe Web Site: http://www.bossintl.co.uk
> Asia Web Site: http://www.bossintl.com.hk
> tel: 608-258-9910
> fax: 608-258-9943
Sincerely,
Chris E. Maeder, M.S.
Have you ever done a HEC-2 study from scratch? How long did it take
you?
Our software performs this same work in less that 1/10th of the time.
That is why people purchase this software. When you get into
consulting you don't have a lot of time to waste.
Sure, you can do it with some free software. And you could also do it
on a 386 running MS-DOS 3.0 (if you did not want to cover the cost of
upgrading to newer software and hardware). He's running software that
was state-of-the art in 1992. When was the last time you tried to get
an update from Microsoft (or anyone else for that matter) for software
that was 5 years old? You can't. It is now 1997 and people have moved
onto Windows 95 and NT. That is the software that we are writing for
now.
Well, we offered him the upgrade to our current software line for more
than 1/2 off. That is not something we (nor anyone else) would
normally do. However, he did not want to spend the $95.00 to upgrade
and that is OK. That was his decision. But to post hate mail on a
newsgroup because we would not give him a free upgrade to our current
line is irresponsible and slaunderous.
Mzidar
Software companies need a continuous revenue stream to retain talented
staff and to innovate as the technology and user demands change. It is not
unreasonable that they ask you to upgrade, since you have not done so in
five years. They are under no professional, legal, or moral obligation to
redistribute five year old versions of thier software. Sorry, no sympathy.
If you had a regular back up system and policy, you probably would not be
complaining about the loss of software and, god forbid, real data.
Matthew Zidar
Principal Hydrologist
Jones and Stokes Associates
Mzi...@aol.com
Tony Cook
Chris E. Maeder, M.S. wrote:
>
>
> >Has anyone used software from Boss International ? I own a copy of
> >HEC-2 from this firm and am having a problem with support.
>
> >The software has a built in license counter. We purchased this software
> >directly from Boss HEC-2 and my hard drive crashed, now my "license" is
> >gone......I can no longer access the software I already purchased. The
> >company says they can upgrade me for $95. I don't think it is fair that
> >a software company that you bought a package from will not "restore"
> >your software license to working condition again without a fee, I'VE
> >ALREADY PAID FOR THE SOFTWARE!!! I don't think I should have to pay
> >again in order to have it work again. Should I have to pay for a
> >hardware lock instead? The software has been working for the last 5
> >years, why do I need to pay more money for it to work again??
>
> >Has anyone had a similar experience with this or other companies?
>
> >Please respond to:
> >bit...@up.net
>
> >Thanks - Tony
>
> Windows 95. From our records you purchased the software on May 15,
> 1992. Since that time the software has been upgraded numerous times.
> As our technical support staff explained, we no longer support
> software that is 5 years old. We offered to upgrade you to the most
> current version -- with a new manual. And, although the standard
> upgrade charge was $195, we reduced that fee to $95.00 for you.
>
> Our software comes with an install program that allows you to install
> it and then uninstall if from the hard drive. We provide you 2
> installs in the event that the first installation gets damaged. On top
> of that, we have provided you with 2 additional resets of your
> installs on 08/08/96 and on 05/07/97. We no longer support this older
> version and offered to upgrade you to a newer package that would not
> have this installation protection check. My understanding is that you
> declined this. If this is not the case, you can contact me DIRECTLY at
> 800-488-4775 and we can get you going with an upgrade that prevents
> you from losing your installations.
>
> We pride ourselfs in providing excellent support. In looking at your
> company record it shows that our support staff has talked to your
> engineers at least 20 times. This was at NO CHARGE. I really don't
> think you accomplish anything by trying to "bad mouth us" on an
> Internet News Group when in reality we have provided your company with
> excellent support and have bent over backwards to try to please you.
>
>
> Chris E. Maeder, M.S.
> Senior Technical Engineer
> BOSS International
> email: chr...@bossintl.com
> US Web Site: http://www.bossintl.com
> Europe Web Site: http://www.bossintl.co.uk
> Asia Web Site: http://www.bossintl.com.hk
> tel: 608-258-9910
> fax: 608-258-9943
Dear Chris:
Your understanding is incorrect, I do NOT need a new version to operate
with Windows 95. I have other computers in the office that will still
be running DOS for quite some time yet. I was planning on placing the
software on one of these machines. I do not feel the need to upgrade at
this time. We purchased your software some time ago, and on average, I
probably use it once per year, thats all. This means, the software I
purchased in 1992 has been used about 10 times. With this information,
I hope you can understand that it is difficult to justify buying an
upgrade. The version I have right now is fine for the time being. When
I feel the need to upgrade, I will do so, but I don't think I should be
forced to upgrade by not letting me use the software I currently have.
I think it should have been made clear to us from the beginning that if
we have some sort of computer problem, we will lose the license and be
unable to access the software any longer. This is extremely frustating
when you have a project to get out and the software won't "let you in".
You mentioned about our engineers contacting you 20 times. I have been
the only one using this software for the last 2 years. I know I have
contacted you twice ..... both times to reset your software license so I
could continue to use the software. If the program did not behave this
way, I would not have contacted you at all.
Sincerely,
Tony
John Tauxe
Careful, there, Johnnie C. You are tickling the tail of the great
beast of capitalism. I got smacked hard for doing the same thing
last year. Don't get between these folks and their profits, or
you'll never hear the end of it!
--
John Tauxe
"It's my job to be cleaning up this mess, but that's all right with me."
- Mac Macanally
John Carron <car...@cadswes.colorado.edu> wrote in article
<346231...@cadswes.colorado.edu>...
Tony Cook
Dear Matthew:
I do have a regular back up system and policy. The problem I have with
BOSS Software is that even though I do have a back-up policy, the way
their software is written, when something happens to my system, i.e.
hard drive crash, etc.. if I restore ALL files to my system, every other
program works just fine ..... except boss's program. Their "license"
gets lost. Now the software that I purchased and thought I was backing
up properly may as well be tossed in the garbage, that is what I don't
think is right.
The flyers that boss sends out says "FREE Lifetime Technical Support",
that is simply not true. Their flyers should read: FREE Technical
Support for 5 years. I have used their software for 2 years, I have
never called them for true "Technical Support", the only time I called
them is when I have had a computer hardware crash and their software
will no longer let me in due to the "lost license". I have programs
from the late 1980's that, even if they are out of date, I own them, and
if I wish to use them, I can. I don't like the feeling of HAVING to
upgrade in order to keep using the software I already own.
Sincerely,
Tony
John Carron
Chris E. Maeder, M.S. wrote:
>
> you?
>
> Our software performs this same work in less that 1/10th of the time.
> That is why people purchase this software. When you get into
> consulting you don't have a lot of time to waste.
>
> Sure, you can do it with some free software. And you could also do it
> on a 386 running MS-DOS 3.0 (if you did not want to cover the cost of
> upgrading to newer software and hardware). He's running software that
> was state-of-the art in 1992. When was the last time you tried to get
> an update from Microsoft (or anyone else for that matter) for software
> that was 5 years old? You can't. It is now 1997 and people have moved
> onto Windows 95 and NT. That is the software that we are writing for
> now.
>
> Well, we offered him the upgrade to our current software line for more
> than 1/2 off. That is not something we (nor anyone else) would
> normally do. However, he did not want to spend the $95.00 to upgrade
> and that is OK. That was his decision. But to post hate mail on a
> newsgroup because we would not give him a free upgrade to our current
> line is irresponsible and slaunderous.
>
>
> Chris E. Maeder, M.S.
> Senior Technical Engineer
> BOSS International
> email: chr...@bossintl.com
> US Web Site: http://www.bossintl.com
> Europe Web Site: http://www.bossintl.co.uk
> Asia Web Site: http://www.bossintl.com.hk
> tel: 608-258-9910
> fax: 608-258-9943
Chris,
I have absolutely no problem with BOSS taking
HEC models, enhancing them, and reselling them.
This IS what BOSS does in this case, isn't it?
Perhaps Tony will be happy having the original
HEC model software from the Corps of Engineers.
Perhaps he'll realize he needs the enhancements
BOSS or any number of other companies provide.
(check out http://www.wrc-hec.usace.army.mil/software
for a list of distributors)
Perhaps he'll come back to this group and tell us
if the original HEC models fit his needs.
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH BOSS CHARGING HIM
FOR A SOFTWARE UPGRADE. That is not the point of my
so-called "hate-mail". My problem is
that he didn't know he could get the HEC models
elsewhere. It is certainly not BOSS' responsibility
to tell him either, although in MY OPINION it would
be the right thing to do.
As I stated before, He apparently didn't know
the HEC models were freeware, now he does.
Sincerely,
John Michael Floyd
On Mon, 10 Nov 1997 00:49:56 GMT, Chris E. Maeder, M.S. <chr...@bossintl.com>
wrote:
>
>Well, we offered him the upgrade to our current software line for more
>than 1/2 off. That is not something we (nor anyone else) would
>normally do. However, he did not want to spend the $95.00 to upgrade
>and that is OK. That was his decision. But to post hate mail on a
>newsgroup because we would not give him a free upgrade to our current
>line is irresponsible and slaunderous.
>
Actually I thought that the problem was that he wanted the licence reactivated
because YOUR licence count had incremented. He did NOT have a choice to
re-install it from his original copy. This should not depend on when he bought
it - he owns a copy and his hard disk crashed - why can't he re-install without
troubles? This sounds like a very restrictive licencing system especially if
you try to force him to update (at cost) to the latest version.
Cheers John
Another case of commercial software in the hydraulics field - there are no good
ones yet! Ah longing for a complete GNU based hydraulics package!
Thomas S. Blue
"John Tauxe" <tau...@ornl.gov> wrote:
>Careful, there, Johnnie C. You are tickling the tail of the great
>beast of capitalism. I got smacked hard for doing the same thing
>last year. Don't get between these folks and their profits, or
>you'll never hear the end of it!
Yeah, right. Whatever. Check out the threads about Eagle Point
software thru Deja-News from sci.engr.surveying and see what happened
to theose who commented after Eagle Point made legal threats -
NOTHING!
This is FREE SPEECH and YOUR OPINION. They can do nothing except
attempt to scare you. If they try too much they might even loose the
rights to remarket FREE software from the government (paid for by your
tax dollars).
+
Thomas S. Blue - tsb...@longleaf.com - www.longleaf.com
Environmental Consulting and Engineering
PhD student - Civil Engineering & Soil Science
+
Thomas S. Blue
>"John Tauxe" <tau...@ornl.gov> wrote:
...but, IMHO several of the pre and post processors BOSS markets
appear solid. Try using SEEP2D without using a FE pre processor!
John R. Lesnik
We had the same problem a long time ago with WSPRO. This happened a short
time after we bought the software. BOSS treated us like we were trying to
steal the software from them.
For your information, you can get the same product that BOSS sells directly
from the computer graphics lab at Brigham Young University. We eventually
switched directly to BYU and were much happier with their support
John Lesnik
Tony Cook
Thanks for your input John. Even though I dislike what happened to me
from BOSS, it is comforting to know someone else had a similar
experience.
Tony Cook