Anything into Oil
J. Taylor
Technological savvy could turn 600 million tons of turkey guts and
other waste into 4 billion barrels of light Texas crude each year
http://www.discover.com/may_03/gthere.html?article=featoil.html
Michael McNeil
> Technological savvy could turn 600 million tons of turkey guts and
> other waste into 4 billion barrels of light Texas crude each year
> http://www.discover.com/may_03/gthere.html?article=featoil.html
You silly sausage.
James F. Cornwall
Why? I read the article in the magazine, and I saw nothing that
immediately discredits the technology. Do you have something
constructive to add?
Jim
--
****************************************************
** Facilior veniam posterius quam prius capere! **
****************************************************
** James F. Cornwall, sole owner of all opinions **
** expressed in this message... **
****************************************************
Jo Schaper
James F. Cornwall wrote:
>
>
> Why? I read the article in the magazine, and I saw nothing that
> immediately discredits the technology. Do you have something
> constructive to add?
>
> Jim
Yes. Forget the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Think Tyson, Perdue and
all the other factory poultry resources of Missouri and Arkansas.
Or like my brother said: perhaps some foreign country will now invade
the US Midwest for our TGR and CGR. (Turkey and chicken gut reserves. )
--
Geo Communications Services -- www.geocommunications.net
Jo Schaper's Missouri World -- http://members.socket.net/~joschaper/
don findlay
> James F. Cornwall wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Why? I read the article in the magazine, and I saw nothing that
> > immediately discredits the technology. Do you have something
> > constructive to add?
> >
> > Jim
>
> Yes. Forget the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Think Tyson, Perdue and
> all the other factory poultry resources of Missouri and Arkansas.
> Or like my brother said: perhaps some foreign country will now invade
> the US Midwest for our TGR and CGR. (Turkey and chicken gut reserves. )
...or another 'ultimate solution' maybe. ..An opportunity for the
community spirited amongst us wishing to impose their 'community
spiritedness' on the rest of us (for which there has been ample
precedent).
Hey John, Thanks for not posting that one on tax day, but it's still a
bit too close for comfort. ..Can already hear the spin-merchants
touting for business (since it will be privatised of course):-
"Why not GO UP with a bang"
"Show the love=light in your life"
"Don't shove those ashes under the bed - oil the joint!"
"Book the family in for our Sunday Special" (one of those "Stairway to
Heaven" rising coloured blobby thingies)
Shees! Sure to be $$$$$ in that one... It's just a question of
marketing. (And time). (None of that crude utilitarian Gothic of the
past.) Forward, ever forward, indeed. Turkeys lead the march in this
brave new world. Puts an entirely new slant on 'social responsibility'
too. How long before there's an extra little box to tick on your
organ-transplant card? What? You mean it's already there? No
kidding...
df.
(Good post though, John)
pyśats@texśas.net New Roman-iso-8859-1-is
That's a lot of turkey guts.
Soylent Green Biscuit Company
"Forty million New Yorkers can't be wrong . . . "
Jo Schaper
>
> That's a lot of turkey guts.
> That's a lot of turkey guts.
I have some serious doubts that the plant produces 200 tons of turkey
guts a day, even running 24/7. Carthage, Mo had 12,688 people as of the
2000 census, and not everyone works at the turkey plant. Sierra Club
Missouri claims they slaughter 30,000 turkeys per day (probably a high
figure, even if it is done mechanically at 1250 turkeys per hour). If
your average turkey on the claw weighs 26 lbs, that's only 780,000 lbs
of turkey per day, including guts. A dressed turkey usually weighs about
20 lbs (figures from the Turkey Producers page). If they are throwing
away 400,000 lbs of turkey guts, either the turkeys are really huge, or
someone got their numbers wrong.
J. Taylor
wrote:
>
>>
>> That's a lot of turkey guts.
>pyśats"@texśas.net New Roman-iso-8859-1-is"pyśats" @texśas.net" wrote:
>
> > That's a lot of turkey guts.
>
>I have some serious doubts that the plant produces 200 tons of turkey
>guts a day, even running 24/7.
Excellent analysis of yours which follows, but the keyword was not
'guts," rather "offal." The feed to gain ratio with a bird is about
3:1, which means a lot of stuff is passing through the gut before it
is actually recycled.
JT
J. Taylor
wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 00:56:59 -0500, Jo Schaper <josc...@socket.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> That's a lot of turkey guts.
>>pyśats"@texśas.net New Roman-iso-8859-1-is"pyśats" @texśas.net" wrote:
>>
>> > That's a lot of turkey guts.
>>
>>I have some serious doubts that the plant produces 200 tons of turkey
>>guts a day, even running 24/7.
>
Should have checked the numbers, they do not even need to be using the
manure in the total.
200 tons = 200 x 2000 = 400,000 lbs. / 30,000 dead turkeys
gives 13.3 lbs of offal.
So if the averaged dressed weight is 20 lbs. and the offal is 13.3,
the live turkey weighted 33.3
Only a third loss, which seems rather light, considering the live
weight of a 1000 lbs. steer yields only about 450 lbs of carcass and
of this, 200 lbs. is bone and the 250 lbs of actual meat was the
result of about 8000 lbs. of grain.
When they start using this process in cattle feed lots, I am buying
stock.
Michael McNeil
> Michael McNeil wrote:
> >
> > J. Taylor <jo...@gorge.NOSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<8g7s9vkg2g2s379b3...@4ax.com>...
> > > Technological savvy could turn 600 million tons of turkey guts and
> > > other waste into 4 billion barrels of light Texas crude each year
> > > http://www.discover.com/may_03/gthere.html?article=featoil.html
> >
> > You silly sausage.
>
> Why? I read the article in the magazine, and I saw nothing that
> immediately discredits the technology. Do you have something
> constructive to add?
>
> Jim
Sounds like a load of old #.
Goodyear for one have mountains of tyres in dumps they have never been
able to utilise. The best way to get rid of them is in cement making.
Turkey waste? Please!
It's been used for fertiliser in the organic sector for years. It will
make more money as that than conversion into paraffin. Besides; isn't
cat-cracking depolymerisation?
How come with their infinite resources, the oil industry hasn't got
this heavy tar sorted? Is it because it is used on roads and stuff?
I wouldn't put your money on this if I were you. Japan with it's total
lack of resources and high plastics waste is going to send you used
computer scrap for you to profit by? And the US government is going to
pay for it?
The UK nuclear power authority had or has a contract to recycle
Japan's nuclear waste. Since either it could or would not be done,
"we" cooked the books and the Japanese found out. Now we are stuck
with the waste
J. Taylor
McNeil) wrote:
Can understand your skepticism, but every point you raised will not
change a fact one way or the other. The reason, they are not
claiming it can be done, but it is being done. So the only point of
relevance is whether they are, or not. It does not need to believed,
it can be verified.
JT
Michael McNeil
> I can understand your skepticism, but every point you raised will not
> change a fact one way or the other. The reason, they are not
> claiming it can be done, but it is being done. So the only point of
> relevance is whether they are, or not. It does not need to believed,
> it can be verified.
Of course it can be done and also you can get access to the patents
the article speaks about. What should have been the paramount
discussion but was not even mentioned in passing was the economics of
the thing.
Venture capitalists will invest in pilot plants. Such things are tax
deductible and the capitalist will be covering himself in a variety of
other ways. Why tires and plastics need to be treated with water
defeats me. Why should they be treated at all? They are perfectly
adequate fuels as is.
Why turn turkey waste into paraffin when it is already a useful food
source? I would have thought that opening a fish farm near-by would be
more remunerative.
The UK has very large cities situated close to each other with good
road and rail networks. If any country in the world is capable of
successfully operating recycling plants it is the UK.
Here tyres are used in cement works, plastics are buried or turned
into pallets at a fairly recent recycling plant in Scotland. We have
fish farms and organic organisations aplenty. As for inventiveness,
British inventors are legendary.
So what is the stalling point with such plants here? Economics.
When it costs more to produce something than it sells for, there is no
market for it. That is what you want to look at in the article. Find
out who is getting the government's money -your money- when, where,
how and why.
It sounds like the money is not coming from the venture capitalists,
they will get repaid by the government. They are probably just working
a con to get past hygene laws to make their turkey processing plant
comply with local laws at no extra cost to themselves.
Or am I a nasty pessimistic old fart who needs to up his paranoia
tablets?
J. Taylor
McNeil) wrote:
>J. Taylor <jo...@gorge.NOSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<jds0av8noj1n1jrsa...@4ax.com>...
>
>> I can understand your skepticism, but every point you raised will not
>> change a fact one way or the other. The reason, they are not
>> claiming it can be done, but it is being done. So the only point of
>> relevance is whether they are, or not. It does not need to believed,
>> it can be verified.
>
>Of course it can be done and also you can get access to the patents
>the article speaks about. What should have been the paramount
>discussion but was not even mentioned in passing was the economics of
>the thing.
From the article:
"This is our first-out plant, and we estimate we'll make oil at $15 a
barrel. In three to five years, we'll drop that to $10, the same as a
medium-size oil exploration and production company. And it will get
cheaper from there."
http://www.discover.com/may_03/gthere.html?article=featoil.html
vs.
Since 1869 US crude oil prices adjusted for inflation have averaged
$18.63 per barrel.
http://www.wtrg.com/prices.htm
From the article:
"This process changes the whole industrial equation. Waste goes from a
cost to a profit."
http://www.discover.com/may_03/gthere.html?article=featoil.html
>
>Venture capitalists will invest in pilot plants. Such things are tax
>deductible and the capitalist will be covering himself in a variety of
>other ways. Why tires and plastics need to be treated with water
>defeats me. Why should they be treated at all? They are perfectly
>adequate fuels as is.
"Under pressure and heat, the dead creatures' long chains of hydrogen,
oxygen, and carbon-bearing molecules, known as polymers, decompose
into short-chain petroleum hydrocarbons."
http://www.discover.com/may_03/gthere.html?article=featoil.html
Which was my point to the post in the first place. Even though
hydrocarbons occur in nature in abundant amounts, it is the "chain"
which makes oil such a valuable commodity. It is not only the energy,
but alkanes (http://www.revisioncentral.co.uk/Chemistry/alkanes.htm),
alkynes, alkenes, which makes the modern world possible.
>
>Why turn turkey waste into paraffin when it is already a useful food
>source? I would have thought that opening a fish farm near-by would be
>more remunerative.
Why would you think that?
>
>The UK has very large cities situated close to each other with good
>road and rail networks. If any country in the world is capable of
>successfully operating recycling plants it is the UK.
>
>Here tyres are used in cement works, plastics are buried or turned
>into pallets at a fairly recent recycling plant in Scotland. We have
>fish farms and organic organisations aplenty. As for inventiveness,
>British inventors are legendary.
>
>So what is the stalling point with such plants here? Economics.
Hmmmmm...... this is your argument, you supply the evidence
>
>When it costs more to produce something than it sells for, there is no
>market for it. That is what you want to look at in the article. Find
>out who is getting the government's money -your money- when, where,
>how and why.
>
>It sounds like the money is not coming from the venture capitalists,
>they will get repaid by the government. They are probably just working
>a con to get past hygene laws to make their turkey processing plant
>comply with local laws at no extra cost to themselves.
But if you saw through them, just how long will their little scam work
then?
JT
James F. Cornwall
>
> "James F. Cornwall" <JCornwall_must_...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<3E9F067D...@cox.net>...
> > Michael McNeil wrote:
> > >
> > > J. Taylor <jo...@gorge.NOSPAM.net> wrote in message news:<8g7s9vkg2g2s379b3...@4ax.com>...
> > > > Technological savvy could turn 600 million tons of turkey guts and
> > > > other waste into 4 billion barrels of light Texas crude each year
> > > > http://www.discover.com/may_03/gthere.html?article=featoil.html
> > >
> > > You silly sausage.
> >
> > Why? I read the article in the magazine, and I saw nothing that
> > immediately discredits the technology. Do you have something
> > constructive to add?
> >
> > Jim
>
> Sounds like a load of old #.
> Goodyear for one have mountains of tyres in dumps they have never been
> able to utilise. The best way to get rid of them is in cement making.
>
> Turkey waste? Please!
>
Organics of whatever type, from the sound of it. Rubber, guts,
whatever... If the process works, it would certainly be nice to recyle
the orgainc compounds back into a conveniently usable form.
> It's been used for fertiliser in the organic sector for years. It will
> make more money as that than conversion into paraffin. Besides; isn't
> cat-cracking depolymerisation?
I thought it was more of a separation process than changing the actual
polymer strings in the black gooey stuff, but I don't have direct
knowledge of that. :-)
>
> How come with their infinite resources, the oil industry hasn't got
> this heavy tar sorted? Is it because it is used on roads and stuff?
>
> I wouldn't put your money on this if I were you. Japan with it's total
> lack of resources and high plastics waste is going to send you used
> computer scrap for you to profit by? And the US government is going to
> pay for it?
>
> The UK nuclear power authority had or has a contract to recycle
> Japan's nuclear waste. Since either it could or would not be done,
> "we" cooked the books and the Japanese found out. Now we are stuck
> with the waste
Nuclear wastes?? How did we get from organics to nuke stuff? Let's
stick with the original question, which is whether or not the company
can actually produce hydrocarbon compounds in the form of oil from
hydrocarbon compounds in the form of turkey guts and plastics and
tires... I think it is certainly worth looking at and giving it a fair
chance rather than outright dismissal.
Michael McNeil
I see you are a deep thinker. How far down did you have to sink to
scrape the bottom of the barrel for a smidgeon of sense.
James F. Cornwall
Riiiiiiight. Since I have no idea what you are getting at, I think I'll
just drop this here. Unless, of course, you would care to clarify
whatever it is you're trying to say in this post.
Tim Davies
vaporize at to high a temp..
"J. Taylor" <jo...@gorge.NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:tdv6avol0bmgvikgs...@4ax.com...
Peter D. Tillman
"James F. Cornwall" <JCornwall_must_...@cox.net> wrote:
> Michael McNeil wrote:
> >
> > "James F. Cornwall" <JCornwall_must_...@cox.net> wrote in
> > message news:<3EA3F609...@cox.net>...
> >
> > I see you are a deep thinker. How far down did you have to sink to
> > scrape the bottom of the barrel for a smidgeon of sense.
>
> Riiiiiiight. Since I have no idea what you are getting at, I think I'll
> just drop this here. Unless, of course, you would care to clarify
> whatever it is you're trying to say in this post.
>
There's an interesting, and sensible, discussion of thermal
depolymerisation in progress at rec.arts.sf.written, that you may want
to visit. Google groups if it's gone from your server. Same title.
Cheers -- Pete Tillman
Consulting Geologist, Tucson & Santa Fe (USA)
James F. Cornwall
Actually, I have seen the spillover into r.a.s.sf.c.....