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Extreme Sports as a "Selfharm" Disease
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Mike Vandeman
Feb 9, 2012, 1:41:56 PM2/9/12
to
Ruth Phillips takes a look at endurance and extreme
sports and asks, could they be a hidden form of selfharm
for some.
Exercise and activity are vital to our wellbeing. Over
the last 30 years, a substantial body of literature linking
physical activity and reduced incidence of depression
has accumulated (Gilbert 2000, Mental Health
Foundation 2005). It is not just the exercise that is so
beneficial, but also the connection with other people that
it provides, and the stimulation of getting out and about.
However, some sports, or levels of activity, due to the
extreme exertion, control or risk they demand, lend
themselves particularly to becoming harmful. Activities
such as ultra marathons, mountain running, Ironman
competitions (for which competitors train at an extremely
intensive level to swim 2.4 miles, cycle 112 miles and run
26.2 miles and winners finish in under nine hours), and
extreme mountaineering, could be described as hidden
forms of self-harm. ‘Hidden’, because they are put on a
pedestal by society. One self-harm report describes “an
Ironman phenomenon manifesting itself in the general
population under various socially acceptable guises”
(Conterio and Lader 1998).
WHAT IS SELF-HARM?
The Mental Health Foundation states that “Self harm
describes a wide range of things that people do to
themselves in a deliberate and usually hidden way. In
the vast majority of cases self harm remains a secretive
behaviour that can go on for a long time without being
discovered.” (Mental Health Foundation, 2006). Most
definitions include activities and lifestyles such as
starving or compulsively exercising (Favazza 1996
in Long and Jenkins 2010). Because of the feelings
of control and release they provide, they can also be
addictive.
WHEN DOES HARD SPORT BECOME SELF-HARM?
On discussion forums on Ironman UK and similar sites,
it seems some people inhabit a world bordering on
obsession with punishing schedules. There are of course
those who retain a healthy perspective on their sport,
and appear to enjoy it. However, there are those whose
words bear more resemblance to those in self-harm
forums in how they glorify pain. These are perhaps
the people who are crossing a line into an activity that
has punishing and addictive qualities for them. They
revel in discussions on restricted diets, weight control,
demanding training regimes and even hallucinating
during punishing runs.
This is not to say that one cannot enjoy high risk or
high endurance and extreme sports. Athletes describe
how there is something about the intensity of extreme
endurance that causes them to feel very alive. Just
as is recommended in
treatment for self-harm, it is important
not to judge solely from a practitioner’s frame of
reference. Indeed a sports psychologist might view a
highly rigorous and punishing regime as normal.
HOW TO RECOGNISE THE SIGNS AND WHERE TO
FIND HELP
Many become aware themselves that their chosen
activity or lifestyle has crossed into something harmful
and seek support from fellow athletes. Ironman.co.uk
recognises ‘Ironman blues’ - sadness, loss of direction,
depression - and provides remedies and support for
this condition, advising competitors to concentrate
on relationships and pleasurable activities, and not
to feel guilty. If it has become more serious, affecting
relationships and happiness, someone may choose to
enter into counselling or psychotherapy, to explore why
their chosen activity has become too punishing and
possibly harmful.
As in so many aspects of mental health, it is good to be
familiar with your own fears or vulnerabilities - you will be
less likely to use extreme or endurance sports negatively,
to a level that is harmful, or starts to take control of
your life. To compete in activities at the levels described
above does require one to be driven - let that not
necessarily be, as the saying goes, ‘driven by demons’.
REFERENCES
- Conterio, K. and Lader, W. 1998, Bodily harm,
Hyperion: New York.
- Department of Health, At least five a week: Evidence
on the impact of physical activity and its relationship
to health, A report from the Chief Medical Officer, April
2004, www.dh.gov.uk [accessed 27 July 2010].
- Gilbert, P. 2000, Overcoming depression, 2nd ed,
Constable and Robinson Ltd: London.
- Long, M. and Jenkins, M. 2010, Counsellors’
perspectives on self-harm and the role of the therapeutic
relationship for working with clients who self-harm,
Counselling and Psychotherapy Research, 10 (3), 192-
200.
- Macfarlane, R. 2003, Mountains of the mind, Granta
Publications: London.
- Mental Health Foundation, 2005, Up and running?
Exercise therapy and the treatment of mild or moderate
depression in primary care, Mental Health Foundation:
London.
- Mental Health Foundation, 2006, The truth hurts: report
of the national enquiry into self-harm among young
people, p5, Mental Health Foundation: London.
- NICE Clinical guideline 23 Depression, Management of
Extreme sports - a hidden form
of self-harm for some?
depression in primary and secondary care, December
2004, NICE, www.nice.org.uk [accessed 27 July 2010].
- Royal College of Psychiatrists. Self-Harm [online
leaflet], 2007, www.rpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfoforall/
problems/depression/self-harm.aspx [accessed 29 July
2010].
USEFUL WEBSITES
- National Self-harm Network, www.nshn.co.uk
- BEAT: National Eating Disorders Association. Includes
information on compulsive exercising, www.b-eat.co.uk
- Information on compulsive exercise and overtraining
syndrome, http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/
eatingdisorders1/a/compulsive_ex.htm
MORE INFORMATION
To find out more about therapy for those who self-harm
at our First Psychology centres, or to arrange an initial
session, contact your local centre:
ABERDEEN: in...@aberdeenpsychology.co.uk,
tel: 01896-872-1780, www.aberdeenpsychology.co.uk
BORDERS: in...@borderspsychology.co.uk,
tel: 01896-800-400, www.borderspsychology.co.uk
EDINBURGH: in...@edinburghtherapy.co.uk,
tel: 0131-668-1440, www.edinburghtherapy.co.uk
GLASGOW: in...@glasgowpsychology.co.uk,
tel: 0141-404-5411, www.glasgowpsychology.co.uk
sports and asks, could they be a hidden form of selfharm
for some.
Exercise and activity are vital to our wellbeing. Over
the last 30 years, a substantial body of literature linking
physical activity and reduced incidence of depression
has accumulated (Gilbert 2000, Mental Health
Foundation 2005). It is not just the exercise that is so
beneficial, but also the connection with other people that
it provides, and the stimulation of getting out and about.
However, some sports, or levels of activity, due to the
extreme exertion, control or risk they demand, lend
themselves particularly to becoming harmful. Activities
such as ultra marathons, mountain running, Ironman
competitions (for which competitors train at an extremely
intensive level to swim 2.4 miles, cycle 112 miles and run
26.2 miles and winners finish in under nine hours), and
extreme mountaineering, could be described as hidden
forms of self-harm. ‘Hidden’, because they are put on a
pedestal by society. One self-harm report describes “an
Ironman phenomenon manifesting itself in the general
population under various socially acceptable guises”
(Conterio and Lader 1998).
WHAT IS SELF-HARM?
The Mental Health Foundation states that “Self harm
describes a wide range of things that people do to
themselves in a deliberate and usually hidden way. In
the vast majority of cases self harm remains a secretive
behaviour that can go on for a long time without being
discovered.” (Mental Health Foundation, 2006). Most
definitions include activities and lifestyles such as
starving or compulsively exercising (Favazza 1996
in Long and Jenkins 2010). Because of the feelings
of control and release they provide, they can also be
addictive.
WHEN DOES HARD SPORT BECOME SELF-HARM?
On discussion forums on Ironman UK and similar sites,
it seems some people inhabit a world bordering on
obsession with punishing schedules. There are of course
those who retain a healthy perspective on their sport,
and appear to enjoy it. However, there are those whose
words bear more resemblance to those in self-harm
forums in how they glorify pain. These are perhaps
the people who are crossing a line into an activity that
has punishing and addictive qualities for them. They
revel in discussions on restricted diets, weight control,
demanding training regimes and even hallucinating
during punishing runs.
This is not to say that one cannot enjoy high risk or
high endurance and extreme sports. Athletes describe
how there is something about the intensity of extreme
endurance that causes them to feel very alive. Just
as is recommended in
treatment for self-harm, it is important
not to judge solely from a practitioner’s frame of
reference. Indeed a sports psychologist might view a
highly rigorous and punishing regime as normal.
HOW TO RECOGNISE THE SIGNS AND WHERE TO
FIND HELP
Many become aware themselves that their chosen
activity or lifestyle has crossed into something harmful
and seek support from fellow athletes. Ironman.co.uk
recognises ‘Ironman blues’ - sadness, loss of direction,
depression - and provides remedies and support for
this condition, advising competitors to concentrate
on relationships and pleasurable activities, and not
to feel guilty. If it has become more serious, affecting
relationships and happiness, someone may choose to
enter into counselling or psychotherapy, to explore why
their chosen activity has become too punishing and
possibly harmful.
As in so many aspects of mental health, it is good to be
familiar with your own fears or vulnerabilities - you will be
less likely to use extreme or endurance sports negatively,
to a level that is harmful, or starts to take control of
your life. To compete in activities at the levels described
above does require one to be driven - let that not
necessarily be, as the saying goes, ‘driven by demons’.
REFERENCES
- Conterio, K. and Lader, W. 1998, Bodily harm,
Hyperion: New York.
- Department of Health, At least five a week: Evidence
on the impact of physical activity and its relationship
to health, A report from the Chief Medical Officer, April
2004, www.dh.gov.uk [accessed 27 July 2010].
- Gilbert, P. 2000, Overcoming depression, 2nd ed,
Constable and Robinson Ltd: London.
- Long, M. and Jenkins, M. 2010, Counsellors’
perspectives on self-harm and the role of the therapeutic
relationship for working with clients who self-harm,
Counselling and Psychotherapy Research, 10 (3), 192-
200.
- Macfarlane, R. 2003, Mountains of the mind, Granta
Publications: London.
- Mental Health Foundation, 2005, Up and running?
Exercise therapy and the treatment of mild or moderate
depression in primary care, Mental Health Foundation:
London.
- Mental Health Foundation, 2006, The truth hurts: report
of the national enquiry into self-harm among young
people, p5, Mental Health Foundation: London.
- NICE Clinical guideline 23 Depression, Management of
Extreme sports - a hidden form
of self-harm for some?
depression in primary and secondary care, December
2004, NICE, www.nice.org.uk [accessed 27 July 2010].
- Royal College of Psychiatrists. Self-Harm [online
leaflet], 2007, www.rpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfoforall/
problems/depression/self-harm.aspx [accessed 29 July
2010].
USEFUL WEBSITES
- National Self-harm Network, www.nshn.co.uk
- BEAT: National Eating Disorders Association. Includes
information on compulsive exercising, www.b-eat.co.uk
- Information on compulsive exercise and overtraining
syndrome, http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/
eatingdisorders1/a/compulsive_ex.htm
MORE INFORMATION
To find out more about therapy for those who self-harm
at our First Psychology centres, or to arrange an initial
session, contact your local centre:
ABERDEEN: in...@aberdeenpsychology.co.uk,
tel: 01896-872-1780, www.aberdeenpsychology.co.uk
BORDERS: in...@borderspsychology.co.uk,
tel: 01896-800-400, www.borderspsychology.co.uk
EDINBURGH: in...@edinburghtherapy.co.uk,
tel: 0131-668-1440, www.edinburghtherapy.co.uk
GLASGOW: in...@glasgowpsychology.co.uk,
tel: 0141-404-5411, www.glasgowpsychology.co.uk
Rick Hopkins
Feb 9, 2012, 8:33:13 PM2/9/12
to
> - Gilbert, P. 2000, Overcoming depression, 2nd ed,
> Constable and Robinson Ltd: London.
> - Long, M. and Jenkins, M. 2010, Counsellors’
> perspectives on self-harm and the role of the therapeutic
> relationship for working with clients who self-harm,
> Counselling and Psychotherapy Research, 10 (3), 192-
> 200.
> - Macfarlane, R. 2003, Mountains of the mind, Granta
> Publications: London.
> - Mental Health Foundation, 2005, Up and running?
> Exercise therapy and the treatment of mild or moderate
> depression in primary care, Mental Health Foundation:
> London.
> - Mental Health Foundation, 2006, The truth hurts: report
> of the national enquiry into self-harm among young
> people, p5, Mental Health Foundation: London.
> - NICE Clinical guideline 23 Depression, Management of
> Extreme sports - a hidden form
> of self-harm for some?
>
> depression in primary and secondary care, December
> 2004, NICE,www.nice.org.uk[accessed 27 July 2010].
> Constable and Robinson Ltd: London.
> - Long, M. and Jenkins, M. 2010, Counsellors’
> perspectives on self-harm and the role of the therapeutic
> relationship for working with clients who self-harm,
> Counselling and Psychotherapy Research, 10 (3), 192-
> 200.
> - Macfarlane, R. 2003, Mountains of the mind, Granta
> Publications: London.
> - Mental Health Foundation, 2005, Up and running?
> Exercise therapy and the treatment of mild or moderate
> depression in primary care, Mental Health Foundation:
> London.
> - Mental Health Foundation, 2006, The truth hurts: report
> of the national enquiry into self-harm among young
> people, p5, Mental Health Foundation: London.
> - NICE Clinical guideline 23 Depression, Management of
> Extreme sports - a hidden form
> of self-harm for some?
>
> depression in primary and secondary care, December
> - Royal College of Psychiatrists. Self-Harm [online
> leaflet], 2007,www.rpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfoforall/
> problems/depression/self-harm.aspx [accessed 29 July
> 2010].
> USEFUL WEBSITES
> - National Self-harm Network,www.nshn.co.uk
> - BEAT: National Eating Disorders Association. Includes
> information on compulsive exercising,www.b-eat.co.uk
> - Information on compulsive exercise and overtraining
> syndrome,http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/
> leaflet], 2007,www.rpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfoforall/
> problems/depression/self-harm.aspx [accessed 29 July
> 2010].
> USEFUL WEBSITES
> - National Self-harm Network,www.nshn.co.uk
> - BEAT: National Eating Disorders Association. Includes
> information on compulsive exercising,www.b-eat.co.uk
> - Information on compulsive exercise and overtraining
> eatingdisorders1/a/compulsive_ex.htm
> MORE INFORMATION
> To find out more about therapy for those who self-harm
> at our First Psychology centres, or to arrange an initial
> session, contact your local centre:
> ABERDEEN: i...@aberdeenpsychology.co.uk,
> MORE INFORMATION
> To find out more about therapy for those who self-harm
> at our First Psychology centres, or to arrange an initial
> session, contact your local centre:
> tel: 01896-872-1780,www.aberdeenpsychology.co.uk
> BORDERS: i...@borderspsychology.co.uk,
> tel: 01896-800-400,www.borderspsychology.co.uk
> EDINBURGH: i...@edinburghtherapy.co.uk,
> tel: 0131-668-1440,www.edinburghtherapy.co.uk
> GLASGOW: i...@glasgowpsychology.co.uk,
> tel: 0141-404-5411,www.glasgowpsychology.co.uk
Wow Mike, I give you credit for providing us an interesting and very
informative article. What is most fascinating and I agree
completely, is that the authors note it is not the activity per se
that results in the "self harm" syndrome, but it is really how
individual athletes approach their sport and training regiment. So if
one compares two triathletes, both of whom are exceptional at their
sport, one could have a healthy attitude toward training and
competing, while the other has a much more destructive attitude like
individuals that suffer from an acute eating disorder. I suspect this
also applies to other non-extreme sports as well, as it is the
behavior of the athlete not the sport/activity which defines the self-
harm syndrome. My daughter figure skates and I have had cause to meet
some high level skaters over the last few years, some of these appear
to have a very healthy attitude toward training while a couple suffer
from what I suspect to be serious eating disorders (a constant need to
be as light as possible). I will be sharing this with some of my
training buddies.
Enjoy,
Rick
Edward Dolan
Feb 9, 2012, 10:39:46 PM2/9/12
to
"Rick Hopkins" <rhop...@loainc.com> wrote in message
news:cce1763d-008a-448d...@x6g2000pbk.googlegroups.com...
[...]
just attitude which is determinative, but also the extent of one's
participation regardless of attitude. All kinds of marathons are stupid as
well as any sport/activity which destroys body tissue and/or exposes you to
risk of injury or death.
I once read a book about a marathon runner who just did that one thing year
around. He traveled all over the country in order to participate in these
running marathons. Eventually his muscles broke down and he could hardly
even walk.
Anything extreme or "high level" is for the birds. Your medical experts will
tell you that only a modicum of activity is necessary for good health. Show
me someone with muscles and I will show you a dullard. An hour of physical
activity a day, like walking around the block, is enough for anyone who
values a "high level" of mental life. We would all be better off if we would
learn how to sit and be still.
By the way, the classic cases of eating disorders are female ballet dancers.
I never heard of athletes having any eating disorders ... other than eating
too much.
--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
news:cce1763d-008a-448d...@x6g2000pbk.googlegroups.com...
[...]
> Wow Mike, I give you credit for providing us an interesting and very
informative article. What is most fascinating and I agree
completely, is that the authors note it is not the activity per se
that results in the "self harm" syndrome, but it is really how
individual athletes approach their sport and training regiment [regimen].
informative article. What is most fascinating and I agree
completely, is that the authors note it is not the activity per se
that results in the "self harm" syndrome, but it is really how
So if
one compares two triathletes, both of whom are exceptional at their
sport, one could have a healthy attitude toward training and
competing, while the other has a much more destructive attitude like
individuals that suffer from an acute eating disorder. I suspect this
also applies to other non-extreme sports as well, as it is the
behavior of the athlete not the sport/activity which defines the self-
harm syndrome. My daughter figure skates and I have had cause to meet
some high level skaters over the last few years, some of these appear
to have a very healthy attitude toward training while a couple suffer
from what I suspect to be serious eating disorders (a constant need to
be as light as possible). I will be sharing this with some of my
training buddies.
You are starting to learn but you still have a long ways to go. It is not
one compares two triathletes, both of whom are exceptional at their
sport, one could have a healthy attitude toward training and
competing, while the other has a much more destructive attitude like
individuals that suffer from an acute eating disorder. I suspect this
also applies to other non-extreme sports as well, as it is the
behavior of the athlete not the sport/activity which defines the self-
harm syndrome. My daughter figure skates and I have had cause to meet
some high level skaters over the last few years, some of these appear
to have a very healthy attitude toward training while a couple suffer
from what I suspect to be serious eating disorders (a constant need to
be as light as possible). I will be sharing this with some of my
training buddies.
just attitude which is determinative, but also the extent of one's
participation regardless of attitude. All kinds of marathons are stupid as
well as any sport/activity which destroys body tissue and/or exposes you to
risk of injury or death.
I once read a book about a marathon runner who just did that one thing year
around. He traveled all over the country in order to participate in these
running marathons. Eventually his muscles broke down and he could hardly
even walk.
Anything extreme or "high level" is for the birds. Your medical experts will
tell you that only a modicum of activity is necessary for good health. Show
me someone with muscles and I will show you a dullard. An hour of physical
activity a day, like walking around the block, is enough for anyone who
values a "high level" of mental life. We would all be better off if we would
learn how to sit and be still.
By the way, the classic cases of eating disorders are female ballet dancers.
I never heard of athletes having any eating disorders ... other than eating
too much.
--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Rick Hopkins
Feb 9, 2012, 11:14:01 PM2/9/12
to
On Feb 9, 7:39 pm, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> "Rick Hopkins" <rhopk...@loainc.com> wrote in message
Ed, you are old fashion and a dowdy, I suspect you were old at 30. I
can introduce you to some of the most brilliant scientist and
engineers who are passionate about exercise and their sport.
According to my dr. I at 58, have the heart of a 30 year old athlete.
If I simply walked, I would improve my heart health, but would not to
the extent I current have, nor would my HDL cholesterol (the good
kind) be as high as it is (extensive excercise helps increase HDL).
Walking would be fine for those who seek calm in their life. I on the
other hand enjoy going for 60 mile plus ride - it helps me maintain an
even keel and a good attitude toward life - along with improving the
quality of my life. My orthopedic surgeon who patched up my fractured
patella from my skiing accident in April 2010, commented that my high
fitness level was a key factor in my amazingly quick and full recovery
- to the point I skied 17 days last season. This year low snow fall
will affect my days on the skis and snow shoes, the latter will
depress my dogs as they love to hike in the snow. As I said, if you
enjoy only walking then by all means enjoy your hikes. While I covet
my hikes and backpack trips, I also enjoy my more intense sports. So
while you choose a calmer slower pace, I relish the multitude of
things that I am able to do. 30 years ago, My parents generation were
old at 58, now the active members of my generation look in the early
40's. I know, I attended my and my wife's 40th high school reunion
last year. There were some very old people there. We on the other
hand were some of the youngest in the crowd. So enjoy your hikes.
Rick
> "Rick Hopkins" <rhopk...@loainc.com> wrote in message
can introduce you to some of the most brilliant scientist and
engineers who are passionate about exercise and their sport.
According to my dr. I at 58, have the heart of a 30 year old athlete.
If I simply walked, I would improve my heart health, but would not to
the extent I current have, nor would my HDL cholesterol (the good
kind) be as high as it is (extensive excercise helps increase HDL).
Walking would be fine for those who seek calm in their life. I on the
other hand enjoy going for 60 mile plus ride - it helps me maintain an
even keel and a good attitude toward life - along with improving the
quality of my life. My orthopedic surgeon who patched up my fractured
patella from my skiing accident in April 2010, commented that my high
fitness level was a key factor in my amazingly quick and full recovery
- to the point I skied 17 days last season. This year low snow fall
will affect my days on the skis and snow shoes, the latter will
depress my dogs as they love to hike in the snow. As I said, if you
enjoy only walking then by all means enjoy your hikes. While I covet
my hikes and backpack trips, I also enjoy my more intense sports. So
while you choose a calmer slower pace, I relish the multitude of
things that I am able to do. 30 years ago, My parents generation were
old at 58, now the active members of my generation look in the early
40's. I know, I attended my and my wife's 40th high school reunion
last year. There were some very old people there. We on the other
hand were some of the youngest in the crowd. So enjoy your hikes.
Rick
Mike Vandeman
Feb 10, 2012, 3:01:50 AM2/10/12
to
> > - Gilbert, P. 2000, Overcoming depression, 2nd ed,
> > Constable and Robinson Ltd: London.
> > - Long, M. and Jenkins, M. 2010, Counsellors’
> > perspectives on self-harm and the role of the therapeutic
> > relationship for working with clients who self-harm,
> > Counselling and Psychotherapy Research, 10 (3), 192-
> > 200.
> > - Macfarlane, R. 2003, Mountains of the mind, Granta
> > Publications: London.
> > - Mental Health Foundation, 2005, Up and running?
> > Exercise therapy and the treatment of mild or moderate
> > depression in primary care, Mental Health Foundation:
> > London.
> > - Mental Health Foundation, 2006, The truth hurts: report
> > of the national enquiry into self-harm among young
> > people, p5, Mental Health Foundation: London.
> > - NICE Clinical guideline 23 Depression, Management of
> > Extreme sports - a hidden form
> > of self-harm for some?
>
> > depression in primary and secondary care, December
> > 2004, NICE,www.nice.org.uk[accessed27 July 2010].
> > Constable and Robinson Ltd: London.
> > - Long, M. and Jenkins, M. 2010, Counsellors’
> > perspectives on self-harm and the role of the therapeutic
> > relationship for working with clients who self-harm,
> > Counselling and Psychotherapy Research, 10 (3), 192-
> > 200.
> > - Macfarlane, R. 2003, Mountains of the mind, Granta
> > Publications: London.
> > - Mental Health Foundation, 2005, Up and running?
> > Exercise therapy and the treatment of mild or moderate
> > depression in primary care, Mental Health Foundation:
> > London.
> > - Mental Health Foundation, 2006, The truth hurts: report
> > of the national enquiry into self-harm among young
> > people, p5, Mental Health Foundation: London.
> > - NICE Clinical guideline 23 Depression, Management of
> > Extreme sports - a hidden form
> > of self-harm for some?
>
> > depression in primary and secondary care, December
>
> - Show quoted text -
Besides lending itself to excess (have you ever heard of a mountain
biker who wasn't "avid"? a mountain bike ride that wasn't "great" and
"fun"?), mountain biking is essentially dangerous in and of itself.
That's because trails are mostly natural and hence unpredictable. The
highway department, on the other hand, tries to make all roads 100%
predictable, so you can safely travel at top speed.
But it also seems to attract people who are into excess, and will, for
example, try to continue the sport after a horrendous injury. There
are even blind people who mountain bike, and are encouraged to do so
by other mountain bikers, who don't want to admit that mountain biking
is dangerous. Death seems to be the only cure....
Mike Vandeman
Feb 10, 2012, 3:06:25 AM2/10/12
to
> Rick- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You are good at name-calling (which is your way of avoiding thinking),
>
> - Show quoted text -
but you might as well give up, because you can never top Ed -- the
Shakespeare of the newsgroups.
Edward Dolan
Feb 10, 2012, 3:35:25 PM2/10/12
to
"Rick Hopkins" <rhop...@loainc.com> wrote in message
news:4bbbb8cb-013d-4011...@4g2000pbz.googlegroups.com...
[...]
> Ed, you are old fashion and a dowdy, I suspect you were old at 30.
The faster you get older, the better. I have never yet heard anyone young
who had a clue about anything other than fucking (fornication).
> I
can introduce you to some of the most brilliant scientist and
engineers who are passionate about exercise and their sport.
According to my dr. I at 58, have the heart of a 30 year old athlete.
If I simply walked, I would improve my heart health, but would not to
the extent I current have, nor would my HDL cholesterol (the good
kind) be as high as it is (extensive excercise helps increase HDL).
Walking would be fine for those who seek calm in their life. I on the
other hand enjoy going for 60 mile plus ride - it helps me maintain an
even keel and a good attitude toward life - along with improving the
quality of my life. My orthopedic surgeon who patched up my fractured
patella from my skiing accident in April 2010, commented that my high
fitness level was a key factor in my amazingly quick and full recovery
- to the point I skied 17 days last season. This year low snow fall
will affect my days on the skis and snow shoes, the latter will
depress my dogs as they love to hike in the snow. As I said, if you
enjoy only walking then by all means enjoy your hikes. While I covet
my hikes and backpack trips, I also enjoy my more intense sports. So
while you choose a calmer slower pace, I relish the multitude of
things that I am able to do. 30 years ago, My parents generation were
old at 58, now the active members of my generation look in the early
last year. There were some very old people there. We on the other
hand were some of the youngest in the crowd. So enjoy your hikes.
All your fitness will not do you any good in the end. Degeneration is age
hand were some of the youngest in the crowd. So enjoy your hikes.
related. You will get sick and die right on schedule, the only difference is
that you will leave a better looking corpse. The sports literature is full
of fools like you.
"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor
the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to
men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance
happeneth to them all."
By the way, you need to stop crowing about all your activity. I have done
everything you have done and more in the two areas of activity that I love,
road cycling and day hiking. The main difference is that I always take my
time doing it. Rushing through anything is for fools.
Rick Hopkins
Feb 11, 2012, 1:59:44 AM2/11/12
to
On Feb 10, 12:35 pm, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> "Rick Hopkins" <rhopk...@loainc.com> wrote in message
Ed, I have no illusions about death. I intend to be skiing and riding
my bike into my 80's and if I am so lucky, into my 90's. Hardly a
fool to take death on your own terms instead of pathetically limping
to the grave.
Enjoy, Rick
> "Rick Hopkins" <rhopk...@loainc.com> wrote in message
my bike into my 80's and if I am so lucky, into my 90's. Hardly a
fool to take death on your own terms instead of pathetically limping
to the grave.
Enjoy, Rick
Mike Vandeman
Feb 11, 2012, 11:27:09 AM2/11/12
to
On Feb 9, 8:14 pm, Rick Hopkins <rhopk...@loainc.com> wrote:
environment, but practices auto-dependent sports.
This year low snow fall
> will affect my days on the skis and snow shoes, the latter will
> depress my dogs as they love to hike in the snow. As I said, if you
> enjoy only walking then by all means enjoy your hikes. While I covet
> my hikes and backpack trips, I also enjoy my more intense sports. So
> while you choose a calmer slower pace, I relish the multitude of
> things that I am able to do. 30 years ago, My parents generation were
> old at 58, now the active members of my generation look in the early
> 40's. I know, I attended my and my wife's 40th high school reunion
> last year. There were some very old people there. We on the other
> hand were some of the youngest in the crowd. So enjoy your hikes.
>
Edward Dolan
Feb 11, 2012, 3:40:45 PM2/11/12
to
"Rick Hopkins" <rhop...@loainc.com> wrote in message
news:c93c1aec-cf67-4026...@s8g2000pbj.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 10, 12:35 pm, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
[...]
> All your fitness will not do you any good in the end. Degeneration is age
> related. You will get sick and die right on schedule, the only difference
> is
> that you will leave a better looking corpse. The sports literature is full
> of fools like you.
>
> "I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor
> the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to
> men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance
> happeneth to them all."
>
> By the way, you need to stop crowing about all your activity. I have done
> everything you have done and more in the two areas of activity that I
> love,
> road cycling and day hiking. The main difference is that I always take my
> time doing it. Rushing through anything is for fools.
> related. You will get sick and die right on schedule, the only difference
> is
> that you will leave a better looking corpse. The sports literature is full
> of fools like you.
>
> "I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor
> the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to
> men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance
> happeneth to them all."
>
> By the way, you need to stop crowing about all your activity. I have done
> everything you have done and more in the two areas of activity that I
> love,
> road cycling and day hiking. The main difference is that I always take my
> time doing it. Rushing through anything is for fools.
>> Ed, I have no illusions about death. I intend to be skiing and riding
my bike into my 80's and if I am so lucky, into my 90's. Hardly a
fool to take death on your own terms instead of pathetically limping
to the grave.
You can try on your own terms, but life is full of unpleasant surprises.
my bike into my 80's and if I am so lucky, into my 90's. Hardly a
fool to take death on your own terms instead of pathetically limping
to the grave.
Here are the only words on life and death that have ever made any sense to
me:
"Once I wasn't, then I was, now I ain't again."
- Epitaph found on tombstone in Ohio graveyard
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