Info on Lab Automation software and hardware for PCs
Steve Owen
Hi,
I'm looking into some Lab Automation software/hardware to run on PCs.
Currently my group has a lot of home-grown code to control, and take data
from, various pieces of lab equipment that we have. As we move from UNIX
and VMS based platforms to PC platforms, I was thinking that it might be
considerably more cost effective to buy "pre-packaged" software rather than
spending the time to re-write our own.
One of the packages I've looked at is "LabVIEW for Windows" from National
Instruments. It seems to be a fairly comprehensive package, and the demo they
sent along was easy to use.
Another under consideration is "LabTech Notebook" and/or "Snap-Master" from
Keithly Data Acquisition.
We're also looking at "DataAcq-EZ" as an add-on to Visual Basic. "DataAcq-EZ"
is cheaper than the above, but doesn't seem quite as straight forward to get
up and running smoothly.
I would greatly appreciate any comments on the above packages, and any others
which I have not discussed. Are any of you using any of these packages on a
regular basis? I'd like to hear about your successes and failures as I try to
decide on the best coarse of action.
Please reply via e-mail. I'll put together a followup message and post it.
Regards,
Steve Owen (ow...@conslt.enet.dec.com)
Thermal Engineering Group
Digital Equipment Corporation
Steve Owen
Hi Folks!
This is a followup message comprised of responses I received regarding my
posting titled "Info on Lab Automation software and hardware for PCs". After
the form-feed is my original posting followed by the numerous mail messages I
received. If you've received this, it's because you sent me mail responding
to my question.
Thanks to all who responded! The information I received was very
comprehensive and useful. Clearly, some of the information in this followup
message is biased since some of the respondents are employees of the companies
whose products were mentioned. Please note the authors of the messages before
taking any of it to heart.
The information in this message in no way represents the opinions or views of
Digital Equipment Corporation.
Regards,
Steve Owen
Hi,
Regards,
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From: US1RMC::"witt...@kjemi.unit.no" "Bernd Wittgens . Kjemiteknikk" 3-DEC-1993 09:56:29.82
Subj: Re: Info on Lab Automation software and hardware for PCs
Hi Steve,
In our department LABview and LTcontrol are in use.
LABview for datalogging of different chemical processes, and LTcontrol in a
process control course. Sorry, I don't mention the distributor of LTcontrol.
LTcontrol is a somewhat old version (1989). It's advantage was the price and
the number of hardware driver available, but from
a control point of view only very few basic functions are available.
LABview is a version from early 1990, it's "easy" to use and you can build your
system from blocks. Personally I don't like the program (the same for LABview)
due to the method your system will be build up, very easy for small systems,
e.g.: up to 10 signals. Huge systems are a mess to maintain.
The third program in use is PARAGON 500 from INTEC Mass.. This is a real time
process control system, with and industrial price tag. The price in Norway is
about $10k.
Advantage with this package:
- very easy to use after you get used to it. It take some time but it's
worthwhile if your system is large, our system has 40 analog in, 10 analog out,
plus app. the same digital signals. The systems are a distillation tower, a gas
liquid seperator and heating tank.
- moouse driven system configuration, both control/ IO-system and display;
- maintance of your system is easy;
- possible to get a network version with slave - host configuration;
- the number of supported hardware drivers;
- statistics and report generation;
- user written C-routines can be linked to the program;
- access to disc for read and write operation e.g: read new controller setting in
both from keybord or floppy.
The last point actually is the reason that we purchased the program, since we do
multivariable control we have to have the possibility to write our own programs.
Just a comment, INTEC IS NOT MY EMPLOYER.
If you have further questions, drop me a note.
Cheers,
Bernd
_______________________________________________________________________
Bernd Wittgens email:
Dept. of Chemical Engineering witt...@kjemi.unit.no
Norwegian Institute of Technology phone:
N-7034 Trondheim +47 73 593692
Norway
_______________________________________________________________________
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From: US1RMC::"cso...@comm.mot.com" "Scott Olson" 3-DEC-1993 10:00:17.99
Subj: Re: Lab Automation
Steve:
I have been a writing "home-grown" control code for several years.
I had been using QuickBASIC or QuickC on a PC AT. More recently I
have been using LabVIEW on a Sun workstation (I had originally tried
LabVIEW on a Macintosh).
Some reasons I like LabVIEW:
With version 3.0 (just released) you can share code between PC, Sun and Mac.
( but not an Alpha, sorry :^) )
Seems like I was always collecting data, saving to a file, and then calling
up some other program (spreadsheet etc.) to manipulate and display the
results. You can do it all in LabVIEW. This is the reason I tried LabVIEW
in the first place.
The programing structure lends itself well to code reuse.
I evaluated HP's VEE and found it to be harder to program, harder to debug,
and not as general purpose as LabVIEW (it also cost twice as much). I don't
think the Keithly products would be comprehensive enough (although I've never
seen them work, I also inquired about them). Don't know about "DataACQ-EZ".
We are currently running a 5 copy network license of LabVIEW on our net and it
is working nicely (just upgraded to 3.0).
-Scott Olson
Motorola
LMPS, Applied Research Lab.
cso...@email.mot.com
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From: US1RMC::"CAW...@LIMS01.LERC.NASA.GOV" 3-DEC-1993 10:45:28.86
Subj: Re: Info on Lab Automation software and hardware for PCs
We have had experience in writing control software for the PC. We looked
into the first two packages a couple of years ago. At that time, we found
that if you were using standard pieces of equipment that they already had
drivers written for then buying one of the other packages made sense. But
since we were using older type of equipment that had to be controlled and
equipment that had no drivers written for them, we concluded that buying
the basic extenders for the RS-232 and IEEE-488 extenders was the best
approach. Also, to control our DC power supplies we needed 12-bit D/A
boards which could plug into our PCs.
An alternative, which is similiar to your third source, is to use HTBasic
which emulatates HP Basic on a PC. I have always thought HP had the best
Basic written for control of equipment. Many of the communication
interfaces for RS-232 and IEEE-488 is already incorporated directly into
the lanuage making program fairly easy and straight forward using the F-
keys.
Good luck.
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From: US1RMC::"capo...@cs690-3.erie.ge.com" "John Caporale" 3-DEC-1993 11:29:00.22
Subj: Re: Info on Lab Automation software and hardware
Get the Quinn Curtis Realtime Graphics and the Science & Engineering Libraries
( will work with Turbo C or Microsoft C, or any ANSI C compiler ). Cost will
be around $ 200 to $ 300.
It will give you extreme flexibilty in design.
If you need a hand in porting all of your applications to the PC, feel free to
drop me a line, it so happens that it is my area of expertise.
John Caporale
Suite B
2813 Chablis Drive
Erie, PA 16506
(814) 833-8456
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From: US1RMC::"sk...@itwds1.energietechnik.uni-stuttgart.de" "Holger Skok" 3-DEC-1993 14:59:01.65
Subj: Re: Info on Lab Automation software and hardware for PCs
>Another under consideration is "LabTech Notebook" and/or "Snap-Master" from
>Keithly Data Acquisition.
If you expect any comfort at all from an application, i.e. that it
conform to MSWindows interface guidelines and provide some sensible
interface features then
STAY AWAY FROM LABTECH NOTEBOOK!
I bought it as a MSWindows program and felt deceived when I first tried
it out. It is just a poorly done port from a DOS application with your
typical jumble of differently organized windows, several different
screens to display data or control the acquisition process and the
programmers simply moved every single such screen into a seperate
window. If you sacrificed speed for convenience by opting for MSWindows
you won't get what you want from LabTech Notebook.
Talking to people from the company that actually makes the application,
on the other hand, was a different experience. They were very receptive
to my comments and asked me to describe what I considered shortcomings.
They also hinted at the forthcoming "real" windows version of their
product. We'll see. At its current state the application cannot be
recommended.
LabView is a different thing entirely. It comes from the Macintosh world
and I have seen and used it briefly on a IIci. It takes a little while
(~2 hours of RTFM) to get used to the concept employed
but after you have managed to do that, it's a pleasure to use
the application. It is a clear example for the superiority of software
for the Mac when it comes to user interface design.
I also looked at the demo that National Instruments has put out
for MSWindows and found it to be less polished than the Mac version.
Windows sometimes did not update immediately after an overlying window
was closed and a few other little things were there to bother me.
Personally I would prefer the Mac version but then I'm biased there.
Furthermore, the Mac version was a true compiler so that you could
produce stand-alone apps. I don't know about the full MSWindows version.
The demo wasn't - of course.
One thing has to be kept in mind when reading my judgements: I was
looking for applications that would allow me to setup simple data
acquisition routines and run them interactively. I was interested in
collecting something like 10 channels of data and write them to disk
after just a little processing. So I cannot say anything about
more complex acquisition and control tasks. That's why I'd always choose
a Mac over any other computer system. The applications available for
this kind of thing are just so much better designed in terms of user
interaction on the Mac. There's SuperScope, for example. I'd be using
that, if the people at my institute had allowed me to buy what I really
wanted. Oh well...
I hope the info is of use for you.
Cheers,
HSK
--
***********************************************************************
* sk...@itwds1.energietechnik.uni-stuttgart.de *
***********************************************************************
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From: CONSLT::OWEN "Steven Owen 223-6582 MLO11-1/T13 03-Dec-1993 1500" 3-DEC-1993 15:10:38.89
To: US1RMC::"sk...@itwds1.energietechnik.uni-stuttgart.de"
CC: OWEN
Subj: Re: Info on Lab Automation software and hardware for PCs
Holger,
Many people have suggested LabView to me. It's not cheap (~$2000 for the
software, probably another $2000 for the hardware), but seems to be a solid
product.
The data taking I'm doing is nothing mind boggling. Basically, I'm reading the
voltage output from some digital manometers which we have attached to an
airflow chamber, and calculating volumetric airflow based on the pressure drop
across a calibrated nozzle. Then the volumetric airflow measurement can be
fed back into the blower controller giving us the ability to hold volumetric
airflow constant even if the pressure generated at the source is changing, and
take a series of data points at different volumetric flow rates.
Do you have any sense for how well LabView does with feedback control?
Thanks again,
Steve Owen
Digital Equipment Corporation
Thermal Engineering Group
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From: US1RMC::"ther...@mdd.comm.mot.com" "Roger Theriault" 3-DEC-1993 16:01:43.44
Subj: Re: Info on Lab Automation software and hardware for PCs
We're using the HP card and Windows software, which can be programmed
using Visual Basic. We're controlling a switch box. It isn't as fancy
as Labview, but allows us to create exactly what we need. Furthermore,
using NetDDE in VB, we can even control the switches from Excel, or
track their states as they are controlled from yet another PC running WFWG.
It does require that each instrument be programmed using the HPIB
language, but there are sufficient examples that I could set up a small
app to remotely click relays only two days after opening the HP software
and Visual Basic! HP's DLL is Visual-Basic friendly.
Roger
(You may include this mail in any summaries you may post)
--
Roger Theriault Internet: ther...@mdd.comm.mot.com
/\/\otorola -=--==-==--=- UUCP: {uw-beaver,uunet}!van-bc!mdivax1!theriaul
/ \ Wireless Data Group CompuServe: 71332,730 (not too often)
"I believe we could do better if we talked to one another more
and shouted at one another less." -- Bill Clinton
I am not a spokesman for Motorola or anyone else besides myself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: US1RMC::"mco...@afterlife.ncsc.mil" "Michael O'Neill" 3-DEC-1993 18:58:23.90
Subj: Re: Info on Lab Automation software and hardware for PCs
>One of the packages I've looked at is "LabVIEW for Windows" from National
>Instruments. It seems to be a fairly comprehensive package, and the demo they
>sent along was easy to use.
Have not used, but know it is widely used, and generally well liked.
I've used an IEEE 488 board and associated software from them and
have no complaints about either.
>Another under consideration is "LabTech Notebook" and/or "Snap-Master" from
>Keithly Data Acquisition.
I don't recognise "Keithley Data Acquisition". If they are a subsidiary
of Keithley-Metrabyte, then I can say their products seem to be very high
quality. If it's not KM, call KM at (800) 349-0033 to get a catalog.
--
*******************************************************************
Regards, Plan: sound made when you're doing 'raspberries'
mon and move too close to the fan.
*******************************************************************
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From: US1RMC::"wa...@MathWorks.COM" 5-DEC-1993 16:08:14.93
Subj: Re: Info on Lab Automation software and hardware for PCs
Dear Mr. Steve Owen
Surprisely, I have not seen MATLAB and SIMULINK on your list. MATLAB is the
most common software used in control laboratories. SIMULINK is a graphical
simulation software. Using SIMULINK, you can generate C-code and down load
into any hardware you like. One of the examples is that dSPACE has built
an interface with SIMULINK to do real-time control. If you use SIMULINK
and dSPACE hardware, you may acquire data from your equipment and directly
analyze your data in MATLAB.
W.Wang
The MathWorks, Inc. (508) 653-1415
24 Prime Park Way wa...@mathworks.com
Natick, MA 01760
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From: US1RMC::"lo...@telerobotics.Jpl.Nasa.Gov" "Mark Long" 5-DEC-1993 17:13:26.15
Subj: Lab Automation Software
Steve,
I am very interested in any results you get to your
query. I am looking for something similar. There are
many many LabView users here at JPL and it seems like a
real good product, but I`d like to get some comparisons
before I jump in. I posted a more generic message about
six weeks ago and didn't get any responses.
My application is a combination of Data Aquisition and Control
of a 2 axis gantry and a 2 axis pan/tilt camera head.
Every time I call Labtech I get voice mail and they haven't
returned my calls, and the PC Workbench demo disk seemed pretty
mickey-mouse. Check out the last couple issues of IEEE Spectrum magazine
they had a listing of DAQ software packages.....There is also
Paragon TNT, my understanding is that it doesn't run under MSWindows,
but you could use OS/2 or Windows NT.
Again, I'd be interested in ANY feedback from the NET you get.
Thanks,
Mark K. Long
NASA/JPL
Satellite Test Assitant Robot Project.
lo...@telerobotics.jpl.nasa.gov
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From: US1RMC::"fen...@nemo.life.uiuc.edu" "Jim Fenton" 6-DEC-1993 13:06:19.21
Subj: Info on Lab Automation software and hardware for PCs
Hi. Have you looked into the data acquisition modules that link into
the Origin plotting package. I haven't used them yet, but we have been
very happy with Origin in general, and the information that we have
received about the data acquisition modules sounds encouraging. Origin is
a MS-Windows program that comes with a scripting language and the company
makes available everything needed to access dll and dde capabilities.
MicroCal Software, Inc.
One Roundhouse Plaza
Northampton, MA 01060
phone: 800-969-7720
fax: 413-585-0126
---
Jim Fenton fen...@nemo.life.uiuc.edu
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From: US1RMC::"tw...@sirius.UVic.CA" "Tony Wass" 7-DEC-1993 00:43:28.25
Subj: Re: Info on Lab Automation software and hardware for PCs
I have used LabVIEW 2.2 for the macintosh, which is the forerunner to labview for
windows
LV for the mac is great. It has quickly become the standard in mech eng dept here
at UVic. In the vibrations teaching lab, labview is used as a signal generator
and as a dynamic frequncy analyser, in the materials lab the same computer, A/D
board and labview control and aquire data from the universal testing machine, in
the instrumentation lab it is a virtual strip chart recorder.
I can't say enough good things about it.
We are teaching mechanical engineering undergrads with little programming bility
how to make their own instrumentation systems using labview. It is so easy to use
that it becomes transparent and they can concentrate on the transducer ansd
dignal conditioning side of the lab exercise.
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From: US1RMC::"roh...@dmapub.dma.org" "Stan Rohrer" 7-DEC-1993 08:18:50.65
Subj: Re: Info on Lab Automation software and hardware for PCs
In article <2dlnfj$o...@jac.zko.dec.com> you wrote:
: One of the packages I've looked at is "LabVIEW for Windows" from National
: Instruments. It seems to be a fairly comprehensive package, and the demo they
: sent along was easy to use.
I've not actually used any of these mentioned packages though I've
previewed a few. LabView is the package that HP uses on some of their
testers as I recall. With that kind of support (or demand for support)
it shouldn't be a real bad bet.
: I would greatly appreciate any comments on the above packages, and any others
: which I have not discussed. Are any of you using any of these packages on a
: regular basis? I'd like to hear about your successes and failures as I try to
: decide on the best coarse of action.
Take a look also at WaveTek's Test Windows. I liked the demo better than
National's. I don't know that the support would be any better but I did
like the layout and ease of use at the demo level. If I'd have bought
something my first choice would likely have been Test Windows. It would
have fit better into my environment where we would have a number of mfg
engineers working with it but likely none of us could have spent the time
to become gurus. We needed something easy to jump into but powerful
enough to get test jobs done quickly. As it turns out we decided to do
some hot mockup fixtures instead of building a centralized generic tester.
I'm interested in the results of your responses when you summarize.
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Stan Rohrer "Speaking for myself. Who else
Dayton, Ohio, USA has output access privileges for
<roh...@dmapub.dma.org> this mouth?"
Scitex Digital Printing, Inc (The day job.)
sro...@scitexdpi.com (may work one of these days when the bugs get fixed.)
*****************************************************************************
Steve Owen
ow...@conslt.enet.dec.com Don't squirt silly string into the wind...
*****************************************************************************
Parag Wakankar
|>
|> Hi,
|>
|> I'm looking into some Lab Automation software/hardware to run on PCs.
|
|> Instruments. It seems to be a fairly comprehensive package, and the demo they
|> sent along was easy to use.
|>
I have used Labview on MACs. I think it is a pretty good software. Although if you really need very high sampling rates, it is not that good. You may have to include a dedicated DSP board for the data acq. which in my opinion works very well. other than that, LABVIEWis pretty good, easy to use.
Parag
|>
|>