BSEE vs. BSEET
Paul R.
Engineering Technology)?
I've never been able to get a clear, definitive answer to this
question. I received a BSEET 7 years ago and have since worked as an
engineer side-by-side with BSEEs and MSEEs for several different
employers. A BSEET has been described to me as somewhere between a
technician and an engineer, but after 7 years in the industry I've
neither seen nor even heard of such a position.
I've often had to defend my degree because some people associate it
with a trade school diploma, even though I received it at an accredited
state funded university.
I can see only a few differences in the college curriculum between
BSEEs and BSEETs. For example, BSEEs had to take a few more calculus
semesters than BSEETs (at least at my alma mater).
Can anyone shed some light?
Michael D. Aesoph
>From: p...@ix.netcom.com (Paul R. )
>Subject: BSEE vs. BSEET
>Date: 16 Aug 1995 15:52:55 GMT
Dear Paul:
The only problem with an ET degree that I can see is that they vary
GREATLY from state to state and even school to school. If you went to an ABET
accredited school, then you got just as good of an education as an EE, perhaps
better from what I've seen. However, some schools let a business major take
1-2 basic engineering courses and he gets an engineering technology degree
too.... Worse yet, some schools look at your QPA at the end of your Sofmore
year, and if it's high enough, you go on to get your engineering degree in
whatever. If it's not, they give you an enginering technology degree (OOPS!).
Sometimes, you can get lumped in with those types of definitions.
Remember, education generally is not an indicator of ability at all, I've
seen people with PhD's / Masters / whatever, KILL projects and drive them into
the ground. Unfortunately, some states don't look at the big picture (I think
8 in all) and have laws preventing ET's from practicing engineering. I
haven't had much trouble yet, and don't really expect any. My advice is let
your accomplishments speak for themselves.
Michael D. Aesoph, aes...@ctc.com
======================================================================
This life is a test - it is only a test. If it had been an actual
life, you would have received further instructions on where to go
and what to do.
======================================================================
Wallace Venable
>What is the difference between a BSEE and a BSEET (Electronics
>Engineering Technology)?
>I've often had to defend my degree because some people associate it
>with a trade school diploma, even though I received it at an accredited
>state funded university.
An "accredited state .. university" =? regional accreditation
An "ABET accredited EE program" <> an "ABET accrdited EET program"
All accrditation is NOT the same.
>I can see only a few differences in the college curriculum between
>BSEEs and BSEETs. For example, BSEEs had to take a few more calculus
>semesters than BSEETs (at least at my alma mater).
In general, the difference in math is the primary one. It may not
be just a difference in "math courses," but in the level of analysis used in
electrical/electronic/computer courses as well.
I will not speculate on which is better since I'm an ME.
Don Russ
>
>What is the difference between a BSEE and a BSEET (Electronics
>Engineering Technology)?
>
>question. I received a BSEET 7 years ago and have since worked as an
>engineer side-by-side with BSEEs and MSEEs for several different
>employers. A BSEET has been described to me as somewhere between a
>technician and an engineer, but after 7 years in the industry I've
>neither seen nor even heard of such a position.
>
>with a trade school diploma, even though I received it at an accredited
>state funded university.
>
I was finishing up an ABET accerdited BSET program at Binghamton
University and got a job as a Senoir Tech at MDS. When I got my diploma a
year later they reluctantly promoted me to Associate Engineer. My reviews
for the past two years have been glowing and I'm finally an engineer
without reservation.
If I tried to get into Kodak or Xerox in Rochester I couldn't get an
engineering position. Now when I put out my feelers I put on my resume'
"BS Engineering, Binghamton University" and what do you know... they
nibbled. My accomplishments speak for me and the "White Lie" gets past
the half dozen brain cells in H.R.
It's true that the BSET is a very misunderstood degree. Most H.R. and
management types think you took the easy way out, like you only took 7
credit hours or something. EEs think you are not a member of the
fraternity because you didn't go all the way through hell years (Calc I
through Calc XXVI ). I started the MSEE bridge program at RIT with a 2.9
BU.GPA on probation. My RIT GPA is now 3.89 after 24 credit hours. Maybe
the BSET was harder than I thought?
Speeking of RIT they have a BTEE program that is truly "Easy". That makes
it hard for me to convince anyone that a BSET isn't a BTEE and that I not
just a "Super Tech". I took a senior level BTEE elective that was a
breez. But it got me my diploma. The problem with that is that I'm
grouped in and judged with the grads of this program.
>I can see only a few differences in the college curriculum between
>BSEEs and BSEETs. For example, BSEEs had to take a few more calculus
>semesters than BSEETs (at least at my alma mater).
The BSETs are on the average more hands on. The old joke about the
engineering grad that didn't know how to solder (TRAINED! Anyone can melt
solder.) isn't too far off. If you look in most BSEE programs a couse in
FABRICATION is not required. The sharp motivated student will learn on
their own. Most are destined for management (BYMs, Budding Young
Managers, as an old hand in engineering I once knew would say ). The
difference between a EE and an EET? One can be put to work right out of
school and one has to be trained to troubleshoot, solder, assemble, etc.
But then we genralize.
The lack of math beyond calc has been a problem for me. I have had to be
self instructed on DSP techniques such as Z-transforms etc. On the other
hand I have taken couses in things as switching power supply design, power
distribution, RF communications etc. that were electives. Most EEs can
take only one or two electives in their program without going to overload.
One of the jokes at RIT where I'm working on my MSEE is the "Required
Elective", the other is "Extended Day" but I won't get into that.
>Can anyone shed some light?
BSEET is a degree to fill a need that is there but that few people in the
industry can see. Engineering attitudes are contradictory. It's an
industry that is evolving rapidly but it is run by people with the most
conservitive of attitudes. Management seems to think that traditionally
trained engineers are appropriate for all postions, but in reality you
will have out of work BSEETs and frustrated BSEEs.
--
Don Russ Microwave Data Systems
Advanced Development Engineer a California Microwave Co.
N2...@WB2PSI.wny.ny.usa.na do...@mdsroc.com
_ /|
\'o.O' Bill in 96!
=(___)=
U Ack!
michael s wright/dxss/77915
The school of engr would not take me because my grades out of high school
were too low. After getting 4.0's in technology the school of engineering
took me. The engineering curiculum is more math intensive, the technology
side is more hands-on. One down side to the technology program is if you
have aspirations of working for the federal govt., they don't recognize
a technology degree as an engineering degree.
John Stephen Patrick
>In article <40t48n$8...@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com says...
>>
>>What is the difference between a BSEE and a BSEET (Electronics
>>Engineering Technology)?
>>
(snip snip)
>If I tried to get into Kodak or Xerox in Rochester I couldn't get an
>engineering position. Now when I put out my feelers I put on my resume'
>"BS Engineering, Binghamton University" and what do you know... they
>nibbled. My accomplishments speak for me and the "White Lie" gets past
>the half dozen brain cells in H.R.
Hmm... ever take a class in Engineering Ethics?
>It's true that the BSET is a very misunderstood degree. Most H.R. and
(snip snip)
>The BSETs are on the average more hands on. The old joke about the
>engineering grad that didn't know how to solder (TRAINED! Anyone can melt
>solder.) isn't too far off. If you look in most BSEE programs a couse in
>FABRICATION is not required. The sharp motivated student will learn on
>their own. Most are destined for management (BYMs, Budding Young
>Managers, as an old hand in engineering I once knew would say ). The
>difference between a EE and an EET? One can be put to work right out of
>school and one has to be trained to troubleshoot, solder, assemble, etc.
>But then we genralize.
Hmm.. don't know about your college, but hands on work is what goes on
in the Labs here at The University of Oklahoma. Oh, and most EE
students I know don't want to do troubleshooting, soldering, and
assembling parts. That's for techs.
(snip snip)
>--
>Don Russ Microwave Data Systems
>Advanced Development Engineer a California Microwave Co.
>N2...@WB2PSI.wny.ny.usa.na do...@mdsroc.com
(snip snip too long .sig)
John (My real major is Electrical Engineering/Computer Option, but no
one knows what that is!) Patrick
--
/ /~~~~/ {John Patrick, E-mail: jspa...@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu|I }
/ / / {John's Homepage: <http://www.ecn.uoknor.edu/~jspatric> |L }
/ / /~~~~ {Computer Engineering Senior @ The University of Oklahoma|C }
/____/ / {All that is gold does not glitter. . . . --J.R.R.Tolkien|T }
Mark Engels
>
> In article <40t48n$8...@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> p...@ix.netcom.com (Paul R. ) writes:
> The only problem with an ET degree that I can see is that they vary
> GREATLY from state to state and even school to school. If you went to an ABET
> accredited school, then you got just as good of an education as an EE, perhaps
> better from what I've seen. However, some schools let a business major take
> 1-2 basic engineering courses and he gets an engineering technology degree
> too.... Worse yet, some schools look at your QPA at the end of your Sofmore
> year, and if it's high enough, you go on to get your engineering degree in
> whatever. If it's not, they give you an enginering technology degree (OOPS!).
> Sometimes, you can get lumped in with those types of definitions.
>
> Remember, education generally is not an indicator of ability at all, I've
> seen people with PhD's / Masters / whatever, KILL projects and drive them into
> the ground. Unfortunately, some states don't look at the big picture (I think
> 8 in all) and have laws preventing ET's from practicing engineering. I
> haven't had much trouble yet, and don't really expect any. My advice is let
> your accomplishments speak for themselves.
I would have to agree with Michael.
BSEET May '93 Lake Superior State University, Sault Ste. Marie MI.
TAC/ABET accredited since 1981
I also posses Michigan EIT status, yet have been told I cannot write the
Principles and Practices (PE) exam. Is this true?
If this is so, do you have any suggestions as to how I might still become
professionally licensed?
I know EDS doesn't rate PEs much higher, but it has always been a goal of
mine, ever since freshman year in college (but if I knew then what I knew
now, I probably would have transferred to another school's EE program, like
Michigan Tech.)
Still, I feel I received a top notch education...I work daily with MSEE and
Ph.D EE and ME folk every day. They see me as one of their equals for exactly
the reason you mentioned, I let my several years experience (co-op in school,
too) in factory floor automation and automated data collection speak for itself.
Any more info, thanks :)
Also good just to vent once in a while.
Steve Tahan
msw...@scc.naic.wpafb.af.mil (michael s wright/dxss/77915) writes:
:> One down side to the technology program is if you
:> have aspirations of working for the federal govt., they don't recognize
:> a technology degree as an engineering degree.
I got my BSMET from the University of Lowell (formerly Lowell Tech, now UMass
Lowell). This was the only program they had for evening students. It was
provided by the normal Mechanical Engineering Department and used the same
profs as the day ME program. My program was structured similar to the day ME
program with the exception that our math ended after diff eqns. We got very
little hands-on. I only had two labs, a strength of materials and
instruments lab. The rest was classroom.
The company I worked for at the time, Stone & Webster Engineering, considered
me a full engineer and even promoted me to that position just before I
graduated. They were more interested in what you could do than what you had
on your wall. Everywhere I've worked since, even as a government contractor,
has considered me an engineer.
____________________________________
Steve Tahan
Occupational Safety Associates, Inc.
Augusta, Georgia
Mark Engels
> One down side to the technology program is if you
> have aspirations of working for the federal govt., they don't recognize
> a technology degree as an engineering degree.
This is true, but you can write on federal engineering positions
as a GS-5 iff you posses a BSET from a TAC/ABET accredited school
AND you have successfully written the EIT esxam in youur state.
I worked for the Corps of Engineers at the Soo Locks in Sault Ste.
Marie, Michigan while going to Lake Superior State University...
this is where I got this information from.
Questions, please email me at rz4...@clc.gmeds.com
Doug Mayer
(snip snip)
>> Hmm.. don't know about your college, but hands on work is what goes on
>> in the Labs here at The University of Oklahoma. Oh, and most EE
>> students I know don't want to do troubleshooting, soldering, and
>> assembling parts. That's for techs.
Hmm.., I hope those EE students (that don't want to do troubleshooting)
make perfect designs, or they are going to have to give it to a tech
to make it work.... :)
dm
Wallace Venable
>>I couldn't get an
>>engineering position. Now when I put out my feelers I put on my
>>resume' "BS Engineering, Binghamton University"
Do companies classify lies by color when considering dismissal?
Oh, I get it "Since I'm not a PE, I'm not required to follow
professional standards of honesty." Neat!
John Stephen Patrick
>(snip snip)
(My comments un-attributed to me :( )
> dm
Point. What I meant to say was "...troubleshooting, soldering, and
assembling parts *for*a*living*."
John
David Jacobow -FT-~
Doug Mayer <dma...@sanders.com> wrote:
>
>
>(snip snip)
>
>>> Hmm.. don't know about your college, but hands on work is what goes on
>>> in the Labs here at The University of Oklahoma. Oh, and most EE
>>> students I know don't want to do troubleshooting, soldering, and
>>> assembling parts. That's for techs.
>
>
> Hmm.., I hope those EE students (that don't want to do troubleshooting)
> make perfect designs, or they are going to have to give it to a tech
> to make it work.... :)
>
Jeez, guys, there is room and reason in this world for both EEs and
techs. It's OK, really.
dave
--
**** dave jacobowitz **** djac...@sedona.intel.com
*** 5000 W. Chandler Blvd. C6-210 *** (w) 602 554 9469
** Chandler, AZ 85226 ** Not an Intel spokesperson
Paul R.
Venable) writes:
>
>>>I couldn't get an engineering position. Now when I put out my
>>>feelers I put on my resume' "BS Engineering, Binghamton University"
>
> Do companies classify lies by color when considering dismissal?
> Oh, I get it "Since I'm not a PE, I'm not required to follow
> professional standards of honesty." Neat!
>
Wow, did you ever take this out of context! Human resource personel
are usually tasked with screening resumes even though they know nothing
about engineering lingo. The original poster was talking about
re-wording his resume so as not to confuse the h.r. personel and thus
keep his resume out of the trash until the engineering manager can see
it (rather clever if you ask me).
There is nothing dishonest here --- he has a bachelor's degree in an
engineering discipline. Details of his education can be discussed in
the interview. After all, a resume has one and ONLY one purpose: to
get an interview (not a job).
By the way, who says PEs have cornered the market on honesty?
Tony Mullins
>Wow, did you ever take this out of context! Human resource personel
>are usually tasked with screening resumes even though they know nothing
>about engineering lingo. The original poster was talking about
>re-wording his resume so as not to confuse the h.r. personel and thus
>keep his resume out of the trash until the engineering manager can see
>it (rather clever if you ask me).
Part of the resume screen is a comparison of the listed degrees with
those that the hiring manager has requested. I've sent resumes to
people who requested in their ad a different degree, but I list my
actual degrees and then describe in a cover letter why my experience
might make me suitable for the job they are attempting to fill.
>
>There is nothing dishonest here --- he has a bachelor's degree in an
>engineering discipline. Details of his education can be discussed in
>the interview. After all, a resume has one and ONLY one purpose: to
>get an interview (not a job).
>
>By the way, who says PEs have cornered the market on honesty?
Having recently completed a round of interviewing I can tell you that
what the original poster purported to do could get him fired at a
later date if the hiring company so desires. Every company with whom
I interviewed wrote language into their employment agreement to the
effect that misrepresentations on the resume or the application
constitute grounds for dismissal. Your argument notwithstanding he
doesn't have a degree in Engineering, he has a degree in Engineering
Technology. If there were no difference in the company's eyes, it
would accept resumes listing either degree, so if BSEET gets your
resume in the trash the company knew the difference and preferred a
different degree. If the degrees were the same, the universities
wouldn't offer different diplomas. The degrees may have some
similarities and I am not going to argue for or against either, but
clearly there are some differences that some people deem significant.
If I were hiring someone, screened the resumes and invited this
gentleman for an interview only to find out that his degree was
different from that advertised I would send him on his way as a
dishonest fraud and refuse to pay his expenses since he gained the
interview fraudulently. He would be hard-pressed to justify
otherwise.
Geez, how can some people rationalize dishonesty in such a glib
fashion? If you want to misrepresent yourself in order to get an
interview then so be it, but at least admit that's what you have done,
instead of trying to convince the rest of the world that you haven't
done anything dishonest in doing so.
--
Tony Mullins |internet: jam...@che.utexas.edu
Dept. of Chem. Eng'rg., CPE 5.438 |ma bell : 512-471-1024
University of Texas - Austin |ma FAX : 512-471-7060
Austin, TX 78712-1062 |
Wallace Venable
>>
>>Wow, did you ever take this out of context!
No, I caught his general lack of respect for other professionals.
>>Human resource personel
>>are usually tasked with screening resumes even though they know nothing
>>about engineering lingo.
You are saying that the people in "human resources" don't know their
job. To see if you have the qualifications listed, that your resume and
references are complete, etc. The difference between a BSEE and a BSEET is
a difference in qualifications, not a difference in lingo.
>>The original poster was talking about
>>re-wording his resume so as not to confuse the h.r. personel and thus
>>keep his resume out of the trash until the engineering manager can see
>>it (rather clever if you ask me).
No, he said/implied he was trying to avoid letting them know he had
an ET degree.
>Part of the resume screen is a comparison of the listed degrees with
>those that the hiring manager has requested. I've sent resumes to
>people who requested in their ad a different degree, but I list my
>actual degrees and then describe in a cover letter why my experience
>might make me suitable for the job they are attempting to fill.
That is honest and forthright. It may gain you points, and perhaps
an interview that would otherwise be denied you.
>>By the way, who says PEs have cornered the market on honesty?
O.K., so I forgot the smiley. :^)
>If there were no difference in the company's eyes, it
>would accept resumes listing either degree, so if BSEET gets your
>resume in the trash the company knew the difference and preferred a
>different degree. If the degrees were the same, the universities
>wouldn't offer different diplomas.
Point restated very well.
Don Russ
dma...@barnum.sanders.lockheed.com says...
>
>
>
>(snip snip)
>
>>> Hmm.. don't know about your college, but hands on work is what goes on
>>> in the Labs here at The University of Oklahoma. Oh, and most EE
>>> students I know don't want to do troubleshooting, soldering, and
>>> assembling parts. That's for techs.
>
>
> Hmm.., I hope those EE students (that don't want to do troubleshooting)
> make perfect designs, or they are going to have to give it to a tech
> to make it work.... :)
>
Well those EE students are in for a rude awakening. Most companys are
going lean and mean. You will be a draftsman (sch cap), an assembler, a
clerk, a secretary, a jantor and a tech. Most techs I meet now are doing
some form of design work, mostly on support items. If an EE shows ANY
aptitude in troubleshooting and prototyping he will win HIRE points. My
supervisor will take an EE with a low GPA that was into hamradio,
programming and outside projects over some anial-retentive 4.0 any day.
If you want to live in an ivory tower get the PhD and teach. It's
dog-eat-dog out in the real world.
Most of the smaller non-PhD track schools are getting better about hands
on stuff. Still putting wires into a proto-board is not the real world.
Wait for the 132 pin PLCCs! Our company prototypes on 4 layer PWBs.
John Stephen Patrick
>In article <41se44$9...@barnum.sanders.lockheed.com>,
>dma...@barnum.sanders.lockheed.com says...
>>
>>(snip snip)
>> (By John Patrick, but someone erased the attribute)
>>>> Hmm.. don't know about your college, but hands on work is what goes on
>>>> in the Labs here at The University of Oklahoma. Oh, and most EE
>>>> students I know don't want to do troubleshooting, soldering, and
>>>> assembling parts. That's for techs.
>>
>> Hmm.., I hope those EE students (that don't want to do troubleshooting)
>> make perfect designs, or they are going to have to give it to a tech
>> to make it work.... :)
>>
>> dm
>Well those EE students are in for a rude awakening. Most companys are
>going lean and mean. You will be a draftsman (sch cap), an assembler, a
>clerk, a secretary, a jantor and a tech. Most techs I meet now are doing
>some form of design work, mostly on support items. If an EE shows ANY
>aptitude in troubleshooting and prototyping he will win HIRE points. My
>supervisor will take an EE with a low GPA that was into hamradio,
>programming and outside projects over some anial-retentive 4.0 any day.
>If you want to live in an ivory tower get the PhD and teach. It's
>dog-eat-dog out in the real world.
Well, you didn't see my follow-up to "dm"s reply. There should have
been a "...for a living" at the end.
Most EE's here *can* do that.... but for a living? I don't want to put
pieces into an assembly board for a living. EE's here want to design
(or something that is non-laborous).
>--
>Don Russ Microwave Data Systems
>Advanced Development Engineer a California Microwave Co.
>N2...@WB2PSI.wny.ny.usa.na do...@mdsroc.com
--
Don Russ
Wow did I start something!
First of all I would never accept (and have never accepted) an interview
without first "clairifying" that issue. The trouble is that personel
people I have delt with are "by the book" people and if it dosn't say BTEE
or BSET anywhere on the description they won't pass it on. It's not their
fault but it is an error of ommission on the part of the poster of the
job. "One dimentional thinking." This gets a "Foot in the door" and it
hasn't stoped a first contact from becomming a look-see yet.
This may not have even been a factor. The contacts have found me not me
them. I must admit it looks more serious at second glance and I will
knock it off. Actually I'm very happy here and they have treated me great
in the last few years and it would take a GREAT job to get me out.
I did get carried away with this class struggle and I will admit to some
embellishment. But BSEEs do look down on the BSET BTEE and they are not
as accepted as they might be. To 90% of the fraternity I am NOT and
engineer. Luck thing I work with the best 10%.
This is my last posting. Let's kill this thread and get on to some
engineering.
I am truly sorry to have offended.