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7018 vertical-up stringer-bead welding
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Richard Smith
Mar 23, 2014, 6:24:00 PM3/23/14
to
Hello all
7018 vertical-up stringer-bead welding...
Back to basics for vertical-up - trying to do vertical-up pad-welds
with 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) 7018's.
- vertical-up
- 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) 7018 rods.
- 95Amps (or 100A)
- DCEP
- steel is low-carbon 12mm (1/2-i9nch) thick
found
need to puddle-up a weld-pool under the arc - so rod end about 3mm off
the plate but only a millimetre or so above the weld-pool
(which differs from getting good penetration fillet-weld on-the-flat
with 7018 - where keep very very short arc in fillet corner and run
fast enough to keep weld-pool behind rod and arc with apex just under
arc???)
slight upward slope of rod (not too much - only about 5deg to 10deg
down - so can see weldpool but not "blow" it - let it advance as it
wants)
95A (or 100A) is right - need goodly Amps to flatten weld pool by
making spread by being fluid (too low Amps and deposit is very humped
(apart from anything else))
no weave (eg one wire-diameter which still counts as "stringer" (?))
seems useful or necessary - when Amps correct (good clean burn)
run-out seems to be about 2/3rds of rod-length
Does this sound anything like right?
Anyone give me a plan to practice to?
Should be able to go practice more welding in the next few days.
If I could do a beautiful pad-weld vertically, do you reckon good 3-G
weld would follow?
BTW - was pipe where someone had done beautiful circumferential 7018
pad weld in the 6G position - apparently that welder went on to
convincingly get his 6G SMAW Coding very shortly afterwards...
Thanks in advance
Rich Smith
7018 vertical-up stringer-bead welding...
Back to basics for vertical-up - trying to do vertical-up pad-welds
with 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) 7018's.
- vertical-up
- 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) 7018 rods.
- 95Amps (or 100A)
- DCEP
- steel is low-carbon 12mm (1/2-i9nch) thick
found
need to puddle-up a weld-pool under the arc - so rod end about 3mm off
the plate but only a millimetre or so above the weld-pool
(which differs from getting good penetration fillet-weld on-the-flat
with 7018 - where keep very very short arc in fillet corner and run
fast enough to keep weld-pool behind rod and arc with apex just under
arc???)
slight upward slope of rod (not too much - only about 5deg to 10deg
down - so can see weldpool but not "blow" it - let it advance as it
wants)
95A (or 100A) is right - need goodly Amps to flatten weld pool by
making spread by being fluid (too low Amps and deposit is very humped
(apart from anything else))
no weave (eg one wire-diameter which still counts as "stringer" (?))
seems useful or necessary - when Amps correct (good clean burn)
run-out seems to be about 2/3rds of rod-length
Does this sound anything like right?
Anyone give me a plan to practice to?
Should be able to go practice more welding in the next few days.
If I could do a beautiful pad-weld vertically, do you reckon good 3-G
weld would follow?
BTW - was pipe where someone had done beautiful circumferential 7018
pad weld in the 6G position - apparently that welder went on to
convincingly get his 6G SMAW Coding very shortly afterwards...
Thanks in advance
Rich Smith
Ernie Leimkuhler
Mar 25, 2014, 12:59:58 AM3/25/14
to
In article <m0mwggi...@richards-air.home>, Richard Smith
Start with 1 amp per 0.001" of thickness of your electrode.
1/8" = 0.125" = 125 amps.
On 7018 you can go 20 amp colder (105) or 20 amps hotter (145), but
with 7018 we tend to run a little colder.
Optimal amps for all positions on clean steel is usually in the 110 to
120 amp range.
Some rods run better hot, like Lincoln Excaliber, while others prefer
it a little colder, such as Hobart rods.
> found
>
> need to puddle-up a weld-pool under the arc - so rod end about 3mm off
> the plate but only a millimetre or so above the weld-pool
> (which differs from getting good penetration fillet-weld on-the-flat
> with 7018 - where keep very very short arc in fillet corner and run
> fast enough to keep weld-pool behind rod and arc with apex just under
> arc???)
>
> slight upward slope of rod (not too much - only about 5deg to 10deg
> down - so can see weldpool but not "blow" it - let it advance as it
> wants)
>
Angle is good. I like a stand off of 1/8" even for vert up.
> 95A (or 100A) is right - need goodly Amps to flatten weld pool by
> making spread by being fluid (too low Amps and deposit is very humped
> (apart from anything else))
>
> no weave (eg one wire-diameter which still counts as "stringer" (?))
> seems useful or necessary - when Amps correct (good clean burn)
>
I like a little wiggle on vertical ups, with a weave no wider than 2
electrodes side by side.
> run-out seems to be about 2/3rds of rod-length
>
One 1/8" electrode should yield 5 - 6 inches of weld in any position.
If you are running longer than that, then slow down.
If you are running shorter than that, then speed up.
> Does this sound anything like right?
> Anyone give me a plan to practice to?
> Should be able to go practice more welding in the next few days.
>
> If I could do a beautiful pad-weld vertically, do you reckon good 3-G
> weld would follow?
>
I think 3G is harder than 4G, just that 4G is more tiring.
The most important part of a 3G is your root pass.
Get a clean root and you have 90% of your weld done.
Also never start or stop in the areas where the test coupons are cut
from. That would be 1 inch on either side of center.
>
> BTW - was pipe where someone had done beautiful circumferential 7018
> pad weld in the 6G position - apparently that welder went on to
> convincingly get his 6G SMAW Coding very shortly afterwards...
>
>
6G is an art form in itself. The 6010 open-root pass is what makes or
breaks your weld in 6G
> Thanks in advance
>
> Rich Smith
A few hints from a guy has who certified many welders back when I was a
welding instructor.
Keep the top of your vertical test plate an inch or 2 below the tip of
your nose.
Take a 8 inch piece of old cut-off bandsaw blade (1 inch wide blades
are best), and tape up 3 inches of it as a handle.
These make excellent slag strippers from you groove passes.
Be very sparing with chipping hammers.
Hammer marks, arc scars and grinder marks anywhere outside the weld
area is grounds for a test failure.
The code allows use of a right angle grinder with a wire wheel during
the test, but you can NOT use a grinding wheel without approval of the
inspector. Some schools won't allow the wire wheel, but the code allows
it.
You are allowed to preheat 1 inch thick plates to 212 degrees F.
If you are welding in a humid area this can save your ass.
BTW now I work professionally as a Welding Special Inspector for
construction.
<nu...@void.com> wrote:
> Hello all
>
> 7018 vertical-up stringer-bead welding...
>
> Back to basics for vertical-up - trying to do vertical-up pad-welds
> with 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) 7018's.
>
> - vertical-up
> - 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) 7018 rods.
> - 95Amps (or 100A)
> - DCEP
> - steel is low-carbon 12mm (1/2-i9nch) thick
>
Most 7018's like to burn hotter than that for vertical up.
> Hello all
>
> 7018 vertical-up stringer-bead welding...
>
> Back to basics for vertical-up - trying to do vertical-up pad-welds
> with 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) 7018's.
>
> - vertical-up
> - 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) 7018 rods.
> - 95Amps (or 100A)
> - DCEP
> - steel is low-carbon 12mm (1/2-i9nch) thick
>
Start with 1 amp per 0.001" of thickness of your electrode.
1/8" = 0.125" = 125 amps.
On 7018 you can go 20 amp colder (105) or 20 amps hotter (145), but
with 7018 we tend to run a little colder.
Optimal amps for all positions on clean steel is usually in the 110 to
120 amp range.
Some rods run better hot, like Lincoln Excaliber, while others prefer
it a little colder, such as Hobart rods.
> found
>
> need to puddle-up a weld-pool under the arc - so rod end about 3mm off
> the plate but only a millimetre or so above the weld-pool
> (which differs from getting good penetration fillet-weld on-the-flat
> with 7018 - where keep very very short arc in fillet corner and run
> fast enough to keep weld-pool behind rod and arc with apex just under
> arc???)
>
> slight upward slope of rod (not too much - only about 5deg to 10deg
> down - so can see weldpool but not "blow" it - let it advance as it
> wants)
>
> 95A (or 100A) is right - need goodly Amps to flatten weld pool by
> making spread by being fluid (too low Amps and deposit is very humped
> (apart from anything else))
>
> no weave (eg one wire-diameter which still counts as "stringer" (?))
> seems useful or necessary - when Amps correct (good clean burn)
>
electrodes side by side.
> run-out seems to be about 2/3rds of rod-length
>
If you are running longer than that, then slow down.
If you are running shorter than that, then speed up.
> Does this sound anything like right?
> Anyone give me a plan to practice to?
> Should be able to go practice more welding in the next few days.
>
> If I could do a beautiful pad-weld vertically, do you reckon good 3-G
> weld would follow?
>
The most important part of a 3G is your root pass.
Get a clean root and you have 90% of your weld done.
Also never start or stop in the areas where the test coupons are cut
from. That would be 1 inch on either side of center.
>
> BTW - was pipe where someone had done beautiful circumferential 7018
> pad weld in the 6G position - apparently that welder went on to
> convincingly get his 6G SMAW Coding very shortly afterwards...
>
>
breaks your weld in 6G
> Thanks in advance
>
> Rich Smith
welding instructor.
Keep the top of your vertical test plate an inch or 2 below the tip of
your nose.
Take a 8 inch piece of old cut-off bandsaw blade (1 inch wide blades
are best), and tape up 3 inches of it as a handle.
These make excellent slag strippers from you groove passes.
Be very sparing with chipping hammers.
Hammer marks, arc scars and grinder marks anywhere outside the weld
area is grounds for a test failure.
The code allows use of a right angle grinder with a wire wheel during
the test, but you can NOT use a grinding wheel without approval of the
inspector. Some schools won't allow the wire wheel, but the code allows
it.
You are allowed to preheat 1 inch thick plates to 212 degrees F.
If you are welding in a humid area this can save your ass.
BTW now I work professionally as a Welding Special Inspector for
construction.
Richard Smith
Mar 26, 2014, 4:47:45 AM3/26/14
to
Thanks Ernie
Follow-on queries in-line...
Ernie Leimkuhler <er...@stagesmith.com> writes:
> In article <m0mwggi...@richards-air.home>, Richard Smith
> <nu...@void.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello all
>>
>> 7018 vertical-up stringer-bead welding...
>>
>> Back to basics for vertical-up - trying to do vertical-up pad-welds
>> with 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) 7018's.
>>
>> - vertical-up
>> - 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) 7018 rods.
>> - 95Amps (or 100A)
>> - DCEP
>> - steel is low-carbon 12mm (1/2-i9nch) thick
>>
>
> Most 7018's like to burn hotter than that for vertical up.
> Start with 1 amp per 0.001" of thickness of your electrode.
> 1/8" = 0.125" = 125 amps.
> On 7018 you can go 20 amp colder (105) or 20 amps hotter (145), but
> with 7018 we tend to run a little colder.
> Optimal amps for all positions on clean steel is usually in the 110 to
> 120 amp range.
> Some rods run better hot, like Lincoln Excaliber, while others prefer
> it a little colder, such as Hobart rods.
Bril.!
Of own accord I was at 105A to 110A - will go back up to that and see if I can "ride it"
>
>
>
>> found
>>
>> need to puddle-up a weld-pool under the arc - so rod end about 3mm off
>> the plate but only a millimetre or so above the weld-pool
>> (which differs from getting good penetration fillet-weld on-the-flat
>> with 7018 - where keep very very short arc in fillet corner and run
>> fast enough to keep weld-pool behind rod and arc with apex just under
>> arc???)
>>
>> slight upward slope of rod (not too much - only about 5deg to 10deg
>> down - so can see weldpool but not "blow" it - let it advance as it
>> wants)
>>
>
> Angle is good. I like a stand off of 1/8" even for vert up.
That 1/8th inch (3mm) -- would you help me understand that?
The 3mm - is it something like 2mm of weldpool and 1mm of gap between
pool and end of electrode?
Am I understanding this correctly at all?
Looking in "plan view" (given we are looking at the vertical "wall" of
plate) - is your electrode and arc pointing at about 2/3rds of the way
up the weld pool?
Does Rampaul's book show this? His "pipewelding" book (sorry - mine is out
on loan to someone at moment!)
>
>> 95A (or 100A) is right - need goodly Amps to flatten weld pool by
>> making spread by being fluid (too low Amps and deposit is very humped
>> (apart from anything else))
>>
>> no weave (eg one wire-diameter which still counts as "stringer" (?))
>> seems useful or necessary - when Amps correct (good clean burn)
>>
>
> I like a little wiggle on vertical ups, with a weave no wider than 2
> electrodes side by side.
That's a "wiggle" in the sense that it is a sine-wave /
simple-harmonic-motion oscillation rather that one-side and pause,
other side and pause weave ... ?
>
>> run-out seems to be about 2/3rds of rod-length
>>
>
> One 1/8" electrode should yield 5 - 6 inches of weld in any position.
> If you are running longer than that, then slow down.
> If you are running shorter than that, then speed up.
Golden information!
Thanks so much Ernie!
>> Does this sound anything like right?
>> Anyone give me a plan to practice to?
>> Should be able to go practice more welding in the next few days.
>>
>> If I could do a beautiful pad-weld vertically, do you reckon good 3-G
>> weld would follow?
>>
>
> I think 3G is harder than 4G, just that 4G is more tiring.
> The most important part of a 3G is your root pass.
> Get a clean root and you have 90% of your weld done.
> Also never start or stop in the areas where the test coupons are cut
> from. That would be 1 inch on either side of center.
>
>
>>
>> BTW - was pipe where someone had done beautiful circumferential 7018
>> pad weld in the 6G position - apparently that welder went on to
>> convincingly get his 6G SMAW Coding very shortly afterwards...
>>
>>
>
> 6G is an art form in itself. The 6010 open-root pass is what makes or
> breaks your weld in 6G
>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Rich Smith
>
>
> A few hints from a guy has who certified many welders back when I was a
> welding instructor.
>
> Keep the top of your vertical test plate an inch or 2 below the tip of
> your nose.
> Take a 8 inch piece of old cut-off bandsaw blade (1 inch wide blades
> are best), and tape up 3 inches of it as a handle.
> These make excellent slag strippers from you groove passes.
Ah ha!!!!!!
I have seen one of these are the welder Coding place I go to
practice...
Now I "see" what it is and why it's there...
Thanks so much again
Follow-on queries in-line...
Ernie Leimkuhler <er...@stagesmith.com> writes:
> In article <m0mwggi...@richards-air.home>, Richard Smith
> <nu...@void.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello all
>>
>> 7018 vertical-up stringer-bead welding...
>>
>> Back to basics for vertical-up - trying to do vertical-up pad-welds
>> with 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) 7018's.
>>
>> - vertical-up
>> - 3.2mm (1/8th-inch) 7018 rods.
>> - 95Amps (or 100A)
>> - DCEP
>> - steel is low-carbon 12mm (1/2-i9nch) thick
>>
>
> Most 7018's like to burn hotter than that for vertical up.
> Start with 1 amp per 0.001" of thickness of your electrode.
> 1/8" = 0.125" = 125 amps.
> On 7018 you can go 20 amp colder (105) or 20 amps hotter (145), but
> with 7018 we tend to run a little colder.
> Optimal amps for all positions on clean steel is usually in the 110 to
> 120 amp range.
> Some rods run better hot, like Lincoln Excaliber, while others prefer
> it a little colder, such as Hobart rods.
Of own accord I was at 105A to 110A - will go back up to that and see if I can "ride it"
>
>
>
>> found
>>
>> need to puddle-up a weld-pool under the arc - so rod end about 3mm off
>> the plate but only a millimetre or so above the weld-pool
>> (which differs from getting good penetration fillet-weld on-the-flat
>> with 7018 - where keep very very short arc in fillet corner and run
>> fast enough to keep weld-pool behind rod and arc with apex just under
>> arc???)
>>
>> slight upward slope of rod (not too much - only about 5deg to 10deg
>> down - so can see weldpool but not "blow" it - let it advance as it
>> wants)
>>
>
> Angle is good. I like a stand off of 1/8" even for vert up.
The 3mm - is it something like 2mm of weldpool and 1mm of gap between
pool and end of electrode?
Am I understanding this correctly at all?
Looking in "plan view" (given we are looking at the vertical "wall" of
plate) - is your electrode and arc pointing at about 2/3rds of the way
up the weld pool?
Does Rampaul's book show this? His "pipewelding" book (sorry - mine is out
on loan to someone at moment!)
>
>> 95A (or 100A) is right - need goodly Amps to flatten weld pool by
>> making spread by being fluid (too low Amps and deposit is very humped
>> (apart from anything else))
>>
>> no weave (eg one wire-diameter which still counts as "stringer" (?))
>> seems useful or necessary - when Amps correct (good clean burn)
>>
>
> I like a little wiggle on vertical ups, with a weave no wider than 2
> electrodes side by side.
simple-harmonic-motion oscillation rather that one-side and pause,
other side and pause weave ... ?
>
>> run-out seems to be about 2/3rds of rod-length
>>
>
> One 1/8" electrode should yield 5 - 6 inches of weld in any position.
> If you are running longer than that, then slow down.
> If you are running shorter than that, then speed up.
Thanks so much Ernie!
>> Does this sound anything like right?
>> Anyone give me a plan to practice to?
>> Should be able to go practice more welding in the next few days.
>>
>> If I could do a beautiful pad-weld vertically, do you reckon good 3-G
>> weld would follow?
>>
>
> I think 3G is harder than 4G, just that 4G is more tiring.
> The most important part of a 3G is your root pass.
> Get a clean root and you have 90% of your weld done.
> Also never start or stop in the areas where the test coupons are cut
> from. That would be 1 inch on either side of center.
>
>
>>
>> BTW - was pipe where someone had done beautiful circumferential 7018
>> pad weld in the 6G position - apparently that welder went on to
>> convincingly get his 6G SMAW Coding very shortly afterwards...
>>
>>
>
> 6G is an art form in itself. The 6010 open-root pass is what makes or
> breaks your weld in 6G
>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Rich Smith
>
>
> A few hints from a guy has who certified many welders back when I was a
> welding instructor.
>
> Keep the top of your vertical test plate an inch or 2 below the tip of
> your nose.
> Take a 8 inch piece of old cut-off bandsaw blade (1 inch wide blades
> are best), and tape up 3 inches of it as a handle.
> These make excellent slag strippers from you groove passes.
I have seen one of these are the welder Coding place I go to
practice...
Now I "see" what it is and why it's there...
Thanks so much again
Richard Smith
Mar 26, 2014, 11:31:01 AM3/26/14
to
Ernie Leimkuhler <er...@stagesmith.com> writes:
> ...
> ...
Sounds like I really need 3/32nd-inch / 2.5mm 7018.
80A for vertical-up stringer?
Run-out about same - not more than 6inches / 150mm?
> ...
> Optimal amps for all positions on clean steel is usually in the 110 to
> 120 amp range.
> ...
> 120 amp range.
> ...
> One 1/8" electrode should yield 5 - 6 inches of weld in any position.
> ...
Sounds like I really need 3/32nd-inch / 2.5mm 7018.
80A for vertical-up stringer?
Run-out about same - not more than 6inches / 150mm?
Ernie Leimkuhler
Mar 26, 2014, 7:57:31 PM3/26/14
to
In article <m0ob0t1...@richards-air.home>, Richard Smith
1/8" is from the surface of the puddle to the tip of the electrode.
Long arcing 7018 will cause it to fall out of a vertical bead giving
you nasty weld boogers down the middle.
Short arcing will stub the electrode out and prevent good wetting on
the toes (sides) of the weld bead.
> >
> >> 95A (or 100A) is right - need goodly Amps to flatten weld pool by
> >> making spread by being fluid (too low Amps and deposit is very humped
> >> (apart from anything else))
> >>
> >> no weave (eg one wire-diameter which still counts as "stringer" (?))
> >> seems useful or necessary - when Amps correct (good clean burn)
> >>
> >
> > I like a little wiggle on vertical ups, with a weave no wider than 2
> > electrodes side by side.
>
> That's a "wiggle" in the sense that it is a sine-wave /
> simple-harmonic-motion oscillation rather that one-side and pause,
> other side and pause weave ... ?
>
Correct. No pausing. 7018 has to keep moving to keep the flux fluid and
flowing out of your way.
Good luck.
Long arcing 7018 will cause it to fall out of a vertical bead giving
you nasty weld boogers down the middle.
Short arcing will stub the electrode out and prevent good wetting on
the toes (sides) of the weld bead.
> >
> >> 95A (or 100A) is right - need goodly Amps to flatten weld pool by
> >> making spread by being fluid (too low Amps and deposit is very humped
> >> (apart from anything else))
> >>
> >> no weave (eg one wire-diameter which still counts as "stringer" (?))
> >> seems useful or necessary - when Amps correct (good clean burn)
> >>
> >
> > I like a little wiggle on vertical ups, with a weave no wider than 2
> > electrodes side by side.
>
> That's a "wiggle" in the sense that it is a sine-wave /
> simple-harmonic-motion oscillation rather that one-side and pause,
> other side and pause weave ... ?
>
flowing out of your way.
Ernie Leimkuhler
Mar 26, 2014, 7:59:01 PM3/26/14
to
In article <m04n2lk...@void.com>, Richard Smith <nu...@void.com>
wrote:
A 3/32" electrode is sometimes used for root passes where your root gap
is below 1/4".
The smaller wire size will make the arc length even more critical.
wrote:
is below 1/4".
The smaller wire size will make the arc length even more critical.
SteveB
Mar 29, 2014, 1:17:18 PM3/29/14
to
>> 6G is an art form in itself. The 6010 open-root pass is what makes or
>> breaks your weld in 6G
>>
>>> Thanks in advance
with the other. More comfortable for me, don't know shoulders or what.
Also, learning to weld left handed can get you in some tight spots, and
the feel of the rod is transferred a lot more into my left hand than
right. I can "feel' the rod and what's going on in the puddle more than
right handed.
Steve
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