Powermig 250 vs Millermatic 250x
Eddie Green
be from thin sheetmetal all the way up to 1/2 plate and occasionally SS and
aluminum. Does anyone have any direct experience or knowledge: durability,
quality of weld, user convenience, cost of replacement parts, etc. My local
dealers, who sell both machines, seem to be leading toward the Miller but
one dealer admitted that the Lincoln may be a little better on extremely
thin metal due to its softer arc. I've never used either machine and my
dealers are not equipped with demos for me to try out and compare the
machines. I would greatly appreciate any advice or opinions.
Eddie Green
Howard Bailey
I have used both and they are both great machines. I haven't done too
much thin work with either machine though. It almost comes down to
what looks better in your shop, red or blue? The miller spoolgun is
nice but I don't know about the Lincoln spoolgun. That might be
something to consider if you want to do a lot of aluminum.
Howard Bailey
Ernie Leimkuhler
If it comes down to quality of spoolguns, Miller wins hands down.
Lincoln is still using the really anciant Systematic Spoolgun.
Wow do I hate those.
Millers spoolgun is the best in the business.
As to the MIGs, both machines are great.
I think Lincoln uses a better MIG gun on theirs.
Miller uses a really cheap tregaskis gun that will need to be replaced after a year.
On the 3 Miller 250xs we have at school we have moved them up to the much better Tregaskis X guns.
--
Stagesmith Productions - Architectural Metal Fab - Renton, WA, USA
"Apparently if you play the Windows NT CD backwards you hear satanic messages"
"You think that's bad, if you play it forwards it installs Windows NT!"
brad
used on the Powermig 200, though. Never did like them, either. Hobart used
that gun for a while,too. Good Luck-brad
Ernie Leimkuhler wrote in message ...
brad
Eddie Green wrote in message ...
Bill Bratten (Outsource Technologies)
for a Power Mig 255......I can personally say,..... No Comparison!!!!
Lincoln is a vastly superior machine..... IMHO...
Miller tips and disposables liners, etc...are proprietary and priced
accordingly.
Tweco parts are available at the Farm and Fleet.
Oh yea... The drive mechanism on the Red one is light years ahead.
If you want a spoolgun...and you do mostly aluminum..... OK... go for Blue.
But if you want hassle free welding on steel (especially with .023
wire)........... without burn back.....and fusing to the tip....Red wins hands
down.....
My dealer tells me that the redesigned "dual transformer" 250X still has this
problem.
I wouldn't trade away my Power Mig for 3 of those Blue ones stuffed with cash.
Just my personal experience...Flame away.
Michael Boster
You should go find your local ESAB dealer and check out the new ESAB
MulltiMaster 260. It does MIG, TIG (DC) and stick for about 10% more then
the Miller or Lincoln. It has an output of 260 AMP @ 50% duty cycle. It
will go up to 300 AMP!!. I tried welding with it in every mode and it did a
great job. It even has a four roll drive system. The TIG is a "lift arc"
start, the MIG mode welds great with very little spater. You can up grade
to a spool gun, a foot control for the TIG, even an inductance control is
optional it you want to fine tune the stainless welding.
Eddie Green <elg...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:tdgpu3q...@corp.supernews.com...
whyaskwhyaskwhy
"Michael Boster" wrote
> Eddie,
> You should go find your local ESAB dealer and check out the new ESAB
> MulltiMaster 260.
I yield the floor to Senator Leimkuhler
Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:
I bow to my esteemed colleague and accept the podium mister speaker:
A friend of mine who works at a welding repair shop has had 8 of those in for repair in the last 4
months.
He is not impressed.
In General ESAB sucks in the small machines.
I have no argument with their big industrial machines, but their machines under 300 amps suck.
Tiny wire feeders (the same wire feeder used in the Hobart Hander 120, NO Joke), nasty arcs, tons of
spatter and one of the worst MIG guns ever made.
Who ever thought a rubber trigger was a good idea.
Please save yourself a lot of frustration and stay away from anything yellow
Best machines for function, quality of arc and durability (in decending order)
Panasonic Gunslinger 260
http://www.panasonicfa.com/power/prodlne/yd260.shtml
Lincoln PowerMIG 255
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/products/wprod/powermig255.asp
Millermatic 250X
http://www.millerwelds.com/professional/products/mig/M10700/
if you want a multiprocess machine try the Gunslinger 260-T
http://www.panasonicfa.com/power/prodlne/gun260t.shtml
Or the Gunslinger 260-P
http://www.panasonicfa.com/power/prodlne/gun260p.shtml
If you ever see a Panasonic Gunslinger 260 you will understand why it is durable.
The division of Panasonic that builds these is not building alarm-clock-radios.
They build automated robotic welding assembly lines for General Motors.
This is a tiny machine for them, but they use huge industrial parts.
The switches are massive bakelite breaker switches.
The insides are all over-built.
The shops in Seattle who sell these are all very impressed with the lack of repairs or returns, when
compared to Lincoln or Miller machines in the same class.
"Built like tanks" is the most common phrase.
If I didn't already have a very happy Hobart Betamig 250, I would go for a Gunslinger 260.
--
Stagesmith Productions - Architectural Metal Fab - Renton, WA, USA
"When a cat is dropped, it always lands on its feet, and when
toast is dropped, it always lands with the buttered side down.
I propose to strap buttered toast to the back of a cat;
the 2 will hover, inches above the ground.
With a giant buttered-toast/cat array, a high-speed
monorail could easily link New York with Chicago."
-- John Frazee
Jack G
don't call it beta trash for nothing.
I'm not sure who you are talking to about repairs, but I assure you that as
a repair person I see at least 3 to 4 Miller and Lincoln to every Esab. I
admit that I'm not real impressed with the Esab 125, but they just did that
to compete in the small welder market. The likes of century, and a few other
not so well known. By the far the best 110 welder is the Lincoln sp-125.
If Esab was so bad, why did Lincoln try to buy the company?
When you consider that the Lincoln power mig is SCR controlled as well as
the Miller 250, And that the Esab is just straight diodes, you will
understand that there is no comparison in the 250 range. The Esab 260 multi
master is line the Miller shop master. It's suppose to do everything, but
fails to do anything great.
"Ernie Leimkuhler" <grand...@stagesmith.com> wrote in message
news:grandpoobah-0FD9...@news.mindspring.com...
JP
">"I'm not sure who you are talking to about repairs, but I assure you
that as
">"a repair person I see at least 3 to 4 Miller and Lincoln to every
Esab.
That's because Lincoln and Miller out-sell ESAB probably 50 to 1 for
each brand respectively. That makes 100 to 1, 3 to 4 out of 100
needing repair is not a bad percentage at all. Just thought I'd point
out the statistics part of your reply.
Regards,
JP
Ernie Leimkuhler
> You have got to be kidding when you compare an Hobart to an Esab! They
> don't call it beta trash for nothing.
>
I will put my 7 year old BetaMIG 250 against any ESAB piece of dogsh#t you want to put on the line.
The ESAB MIG-Master 250 is one of the sorriest pieces of equipment to ever be called a MIG welder.
It is crap.
Point blank junk.
Maybe they don't break too often, probably because they get shoved in a corner and buried in old
junk so people can forget they ever bought the hunk of scrap.
Spattery, crappy welds that flow much like rock doesn't.
A MIG gun that clogs with spatter so fast you better just keep a pair of needle nose pliers in your
hand at all time.
Open a ESAB MigMaster 250 and open a Hobart Handle 120.
Look at the wire feeder.
Does it look familiar?
That's because it is identical.
Made in the same italian factory.
The wire feeder in my Hobart BetaMIG 250 is 3 times the size.
My Betamig is rock solid, smooth arcs and weld spatter that falls out of the cup by tapping it
against the edge of the table.
I have no defense for the current batch of Hobart machines since Miller and castrated them.
Miller has also stopped using the excellent OXO MIG guns on the Hobart machines and now uses the
crappy tregaskis guns on all of the Miller and Hobart MIGs.
Hobart built great MIGs.
We have 12 Hobart MegaMIGs (300s and 450s) at school that are all about 20-25 years old and still
going strong, as wel as a pair of 20 year old BetaMIG 200s.
As to who I talk to about repairs, his name is Mike Gordley and he works for Precision welder repair
in Seattle.
He has been a repair man for about 12 years.
Call him and have a chat about your precious ESAB pieces of landfill.
I also talk to Paul Hibble who is store manager for Pacific Welding in Kent WA who has been fixing
welders for about 15 years.
I did not even list ESAB as an option for 250-260 amp MIGs because they plain suck.
I have been a professional welder for 18 years, and an instructor for 3 years.
Try running beads with an ESAB MIG and then the Lincoln PowerMIG or Miller 250X.
2 different universes.
ESAB is only in it for quick cash and hopes that people don't tryout the machines before buying.
BTW Lincoln only wanted the filler metals division of ESAB and was stopped by the FTC.
The FTC was brought in at the instigation of Thermadyne and ITW, since Lincoln did the same thing
when ITW went to buy Hobart.
It's a good thing to, since the last thing we need in the welding industry is more consolidation.
It's hard enough already to get L-tec or Linde parts out of ESAB.
Imagine what it would have been like if Lincoln had bought them.
Notch Johnson
"Ernie Leimkuhler" <grand...@stagesmith.com> wrote in message
> The ESAB MIG-Master 250 is one of the sorriest pieces of equipment to ever
be called a MIG welder.
> It is crap.
> Point blank junk.
> Maybe they don't break too often, probably because they get shoved in a
corner and buried in old
> junk so people can forget they ever bought the hunk of scrap.
> Spattery, crappy welds that flow much like rock doesn't.
> A MIG gun that clogs with spatter so fast you better just keep a pair of
needle nose pliers in your
> hand at all time.
etc.
Michael Boster
Just how many days or hours of experience do you have in welding ??
I have about 30+ years and a BS in Welding Engineering. I have used every
piece of equipment every manufactured in N. America and Europe. To here you
spew how crappy ESAB is, just conforms of your ignorance.
My recent recommendation of an ESAB Multimaster 260 on this site came from
running one for a customer of mine. It performed exceptional in all
processes (For you benefit that would be MIG, TIG and Stick). I had a
professional stick welder run 6010 and his comment was that it ran great.
The MIG preformed like an old Miller 200 and the TIG had a good lift arc and
an inverter arc transfer.
Also for you information because you seem to be so uninformed. The ESAB
Migmaster 250 and the Multimaster 260 are manufactured in Florence SC where
the Linde equipment factory was started in 1965.
You remind me of one of those retarded rednecks who would kill some one if
the said something bad about their Ford trucks.
This site should used for constructive evaluations and recommendations based
on personal experience and not ignorant statements with no personal
experiences.
P.S. Now that Hobart has been broken up it will be interesting to see how
happy you are to get you Hobart replacement parts.
Ernie Leimkuhler <grand...@stagesmith.com> wrote in message
news:grandpoobah-5CED...@news.mindspring.com...
David Todtman
disagree with passion but personal attacks are not cool. For an example of
a great discussion based on the specifics of the question and not personal
attacks look at the current discussion between Mike and Ted on mig vs
tig/stick welders. Those guys are going at it full tilt but without
personal attack. For me, a guy just starting out, that is one type of
discussion that helps me learn. Don't attack, eh, and we'll all be better
for it.
(Although, I thought the "retarded redneck" snipe was kind of cute. I'm
partial to "pencil necked geek" myself when I want to utter a real good
insult. <gg>)
Ciao,
David Todtman
Michael Boster <MGBo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:qtHH6.739$kA2....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
bogmaster
<MGBo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Ernie,
>Just how many days or hours of experience do you have in welding ??
>I have about 30+ years and a BS in Welding Engineering. I have used every
>piece of equipment every manufactured in N. America and Europe. To here you
>spew how crappy ESAB is, just conforms of your ignorance.
snip...
Mr. Boster, if you are going to rant and engage in personal attacks
this, at least have the common courtesy to use proper punctuation,
diction and syntax in your rant.
Time in a trade or industry only seems impressive if you are
constantly learning and aquiring new skills, or are in a union. It is
meaningless if one simply repeats the same task for 30 years and goes
no further.
If you have used every piece of welding equipment ever made in N.
America and Europe, what would be your recommendation for the worst
welder ever built (250 amp range, M.I.G.)?
Howard Bailey
Ernie Leimkuhler
"Michael Boster" <MGBo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Ernie,
> Just how many days or hours of experience do you have in welding ??
> I have about 30+ years and a BS in Welding Engineering. I have used every
> piece of equipment every manufactured in N. America and Europe. To here you
> spew how crappy ESAB is, just conforms of your ignorance.
>
So you are telling me that the Migmaster 250 is a stellar piece of MIG equipment.
Despite the tiny wirefeeder and choppy arc.
And the rubber trigger and narrow copper gas cup.
Have you ever worked in a production shop where welder down time costs you big cash?
I worked in a shop with 3 ESAB Migmasters , one 2 years old and 2 brand spanking new.
All 3 created almost more spatter than weld,
And we tried every possible adjustment of shielding gas, and wire brand.
The guns are just bad.
The trigger is in the wrong place for comfortable welding and the rubber trigger is just silly.
For gas cups we had the choice of huge and tiny.
The huge ones prevent getting into fillet welds and the tiny ones clogged with spatter.
Maybe is 5 years ESAB learned something, but I have had a few conversations with the guys at ESAB
over the years and they KNOW that the Migmaster has problems.
One of the engineers told me it was a machine designed by commitee and that they knew it wasn't a
strong contender in it's category.
That from a ESAB tech.
ESAB does make some good machines, but mostly in the larger categories of TIGs and Plasma cutters.
Especially anything made in the swedish factories.
> My recent recommendation of an ESAB Multimaster 260 on this site came from
> running one for a customer of mine. It performed exceptional in all
> processes (For you benefit that would be MIG, TIG and Stick). I had a
> professional stick welder run 6010 and his comment was that it ran great.
> The MIG preformed like an old Miller 200 and the TIG had a good lift arc and
> an inverter arc transfer.
>
If the machine worked well for you then maybe it is a good machine.
I based my recommendations on my past history with ESAB machines and techsupport and the opinions of
2 men who have been selling and repairing welders for many years and whose views I respect very
much, since they have been proven right many times in the 10 years I have known both of them.
> Also for you information because you seem to be so uninformed. The ESAB
> Migmaster 250 and the Multimaster 260 are manufactured in Florence SC where
> the Linde equipment factory was started in 1965.
>
I never made any statements about where they are made.
I am not sure how this offended you.
> You remind me of one of those retarded rednecks who would kill some one if
> the said something bad about their Ford trucks.
>
That's very amusing.
My BA is in Theatre tech, and I am about as far from a redneck as you can get and still be a blue
collar worker.
I grew up surrounded by engineers and have a very good understanding of weld physics.
My opinions of ESAB equipment are based on many years of experience with MIGs made by many different
manufacturers.
I have been posting here for the few years this group has existed and on RCM for about 7 years.
I will let my reputation stand on it's own.
I do not mislead for personal whimsy.
I try to prevent people from spending their hard earned wages on machines that will not serve them
well.
I am not some know-nothing yapper , I have had discussions with design engineers at ESAB, Lincoln,
Miller, Hobart and Thermal Arc.
I have also been called by the self same engineers to ask my opinions.
I ask lots of questions so I can pass the info on to others.
Machines in a show room do not impress me.
Post the repair statistics for ESAB MIGs versus other manufacturers and make me eat my words.
> This site should used for constructive evaluations and recommendations based
> on personal experience and not ignorant statements with no personal
> experiences.
>
I fully agree, so discuss, do not attack.
> P.S. Now that Hobart has been broken up it will be interesting to see how
> happy you are to get you Hobart replacement parts.
>
>
Hobart was broken up 5 years ago, and having chatted with a few guys at the Hobart factory in Troy
OHIO, I have been told I can expect to be able to get parts for about 10 years.
Seems fair.
By then we should have hand held fusion powered plasma welders.
PS. You really need to relax.