What work gloves do you use for heavy infestation of poison oak & ivy (covered in urushiol)?
Elmo
impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?
I'm covered in black poison urushiol from head to toe!
So far, these are the gloves I've tried (most of which failed miserably)!
- Pics here: http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
- Album http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg
Specifically, what skin is best for repeated washings?
- cowhide? goatskin? deerskin? what skin is best?
And, what gloves are available that are long and durable?
- garden gloves? oxy-welder's gloves? mig welders gloves? (what else?)
Cotton/leather work gloves are wholly unsatisfactory:
- They wash well; but the thin leather is worn out after 1 or two uses;
- They're too short to be of much use in heavy infestations;
- Worse yet, the back cotton allows urushiol to penetrate to the skin!
Leather work gloves are slightly better, but still wholly unsatisfactory:
- They're strong enough to take the wear of a few uses in the chapparal;
- But they're too short so my wrists get covered in the black oil;
- Worse yet, an XL comes out of the wash as an L which is smaller still;
- Yet the leather gets hard as a rock after a few wash cycles!
Cowhide oxy-acetylene welder's gloves are also unsatisfactory:
- They're nicely long so they cover the wrists perfectly;
- And, it's no problem finding an XL size to fit my large hands;
- And they're thick enough not to wear through on the first few uses;
- And they come out of repeated wash cycles as hard as serpentine!
- But they're just too cumbersome to use around power trimming tools!
I just tried the pigskin mig-welding gloves with some success:
- They're nicely long, almost as long as the O2 welder's gloves;
- They're all leather like the leather garden gloves so they're strong;
- And the leather is thinner than gas welder's gloves (nice and nimble);
- And, you can get them in XL sizes which don't seem to shrink too much;
- But they too get hard as a rock after repeated wash cycles!
Next I'm going to try the goatskin mig welding gloves:
- Like the pigskin mig welding gloves, they're long & seemingly durable;
- And, they seem to give a bit more "feel" than the pigskin gloves do;
- Also, I can get them in XL sizes (but I hope they don't shrink too much);
- Mostly, I hope they don't get as rock hard after a few wash cycles.
If the goatskin mig welding gloveds don't work, I'll try the deerskin mig
welding gloves; but there must be someone out there who has worked in heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak and/or poison ivy and/or poison sumac
who has solved this problem.
What other gloves can you recommend for protection when cutting through
heavy thickets of poison oak, when you're covered in black urushiol marks
from head to toe?
Requirements are:
- Available in size XL (and needs to stay XL after repeated washing!)
- Must be durable (can't have any cloth) and must cover the wrists!
- But can't be so thick as to hinder the use of power tool controls.
- A bonus would be if it stays pliable after repeated machine washings!
jamesgangnc
Address.invalid> wrote:
> What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
> impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?
>
> I'm covered in black poison urushiol from head to toe!
>
> So far, these are the gloves I've tried (most of which failed miserably)!
> - Pics here:http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.
Elmo
>> http://img696.imageshack.us/g/45906740.jpg/
> Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.
Cheap would be fine if it also worked (at least once).
But, as shown in the well-annotated pictures here (
http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg ) ...
Neoprene or latex or nitrile gloves are cheap, but they tear in seconds
outdoors and they don't cover the wrists from urushiol (still, I wear them
UNDER the leather gloves) ...
Garden gloves are less cheap (about 10 bucks a pair); but they don't work
(too thin, too short, and too permiable too urushiol) ...
Welders gloveds are decidedly not cheap; and they seem to work the best (so
far); but I'm wasting lots of time and money on testing them one by one
(first oxy cowhide, then mig pigskin, and now mig goatskin (next would be
mig deerskin))...
Surely someone other than me has worked in poison oak/ivy before me?
What do outdoor firefighters use for gloves?
What do outdoor field workers use for gloves?
Certainly someone must have the experience & recommendation that I lack for
outdoor gloves that are long, durable, and can be washed repeatedly???
Here are my experiments so far (deerskin mig welding gloves are next):
http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg
Elmo
>> What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
>> impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?> Requirements are:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4468
Interesting.
I was looking for welders or firefighters "skin" glovs (deerskin, goatskin,
kangaroo skin, cowhide, etc.) because of the length (covers the wrists)
durability and impermeability to poison oak urushiol; and I hadn't thought
of rubber gloves.
The rubber gloves meet some requirements (others need to be tested):
- Available in size XL and covers the wrists => It meets this
- Impermeable to poison oak/ivy urushiol => certainly meets this
- Durable in impenetrable poison oak chaparral => maybe meets this
- Remains pliable after repeated washing machine cycles => probably meets
- Pliable enough to allow use of hand cutting tool controls => ???
The only thing that worries me with the rubber gloves idea is that I've
used sand-blasting rubber gloves before and I've used radioative protection
equipment and those thick rubber bloves just don't have much finger feel.
Has anyone used these $7 (Harbor Frieght item 4468-7VGA) blasting rubber
gloves outside in the chaparral that can tell us what the finger feel is
like on typical power tools?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4468
Frank
> What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
> - And, they seem to give a bit more "feel" than the pigskin gloves do;
> - Also, I can get them in XL sizes (but I hope they don't shrink too much);
> - Mostly, I hope they don't get as rock hard after a few wash cycles.
>
> If the goatskin mig welding gloveds don't work, I'll try the deerskin mig
> welding gloves; but there must be someone out there who has worked in heavy
> impenetrable thickets of poison oak and/or poison ivy and/or poison sumac
> who has solved this problem.
>
> What other gloves can you recommend for protection when cutting through
> heavy thickets of poison oak, when you're covered in black urushiol marks
> from head to toe?
>
> Requirements are:
> - Available in size XL (and needs to stay XL after repeated washing!)
> - Must be durable (can't have any cloth) and must cover the wrists!
> - But can't be so thick as to hinder the use of power tool controls.
> - A bonus would be if it stays pliable after repeated machine washings!
A chemical worker would use rubber gloves that are washable. Any
leather is going to be permeable or hard to wash.
jamesgangnc
Address.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 11:32:58 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:
> >>http://img696.imageshack.us/g/45906740.jpg/
> > Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.
>
> Cheap would be fine if it also worked (at least once).
>
>
> Neoprene or latex or nitrile gloves are cheap, but they tear in seconds
> outdoors and they don't cover the wrists from urushiol (still, I wear them
> UNDER the leather gloves) ...
>
> Garden gloves are less cheap (about 10 bucks a pair); but they don't work
> (too thin, too short, and too permiable too urushiol) ...
>
> Welders gloveds are decidedly not cheap; and they seem to work the best (so
> far); but I'm wasting lots of time and money on testing them one by one
> (first oxy cowhide, then mig pigskin, and now mig goatskin (next would be
> mig deerskin))...
>
> Surely someone other than me has worked in poison oak/ivy before me?
>
> What do outdoor firefighters use for gloves?
> What do outdoor field workers use for gloves?
>
> Certainly someone must have the experience & recommendation that I lack for
> outdoor gloves that are long, durable, and can be washed repeatedly???
>
> Here are my experiments so far (deerskin mig welding gloves are next):http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg
Lowes has garden gloves in the 2-3$ range.
I kill it off with 24d and wait 6 months or so before trying to clear
it.
Steve W.
NONE of the above. ANYTHING that can absorb the oils is no good.
Visit a fire equipment store and buy a pair of gauntlet style
extrication gloves. These are made for use with power equipment, BUT
they hape a moisture barrier inside them which stops oils, gas, blood,
water from getting though and reaching you.
To protect farther up the arms you could buy a pair of the sleeves sold
there as well.
--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Steve W.
Firefighters gloves are BULKY unless you buy the good ones. However as I
said in my other post Extrication gloves would do the job and work well.
Elmo
>> Here are my experiments so far (deerskin mig welding gloves are next):htt=
> http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=3D45906740.jpg
>
> Lowes has garden gloves in the 2-3$ range.
>
> I kill it off with 24d and wait 6 months or so before trying to clear
> it.
As explained in the pictures, the main problem with "garden gloves" is
they're too short and if they're not 100% leather, they're too permeable to
urishiol oils.
Any web page which doesn't discuss the black stains of urushiol is going to
be suspect because anyone who hasn't seen the black all over their clothes
hasn't really been exposed to poison oak or ivy!
This guy has been exposed ... I can tell by his description of the black
stains on his leather gloves. Unfortunately, he says leather is permeable
to urushiol (I doubt that myself, as long as the leather is thick, in my
experience). He does use what he calls "neoprene gauntlet gloves"
http://www.curtbeebe.com/docs/anecdotes.html
BTW, killing the poison oak does absolutely nothing to the urushiol which
permeats every part of the plant, from the leaves to the stems, to the
roots.
As you can see in the pictures, the stems are from a mm thick to a few
inches in diameter, so, they're chock full of always poisonous black
urushiol even a hundred years after they've been "killed off".
http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=3D45906740.jpg
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Get the good neoprene impregnated cloth hazmat gloves - they are
built like a rubber boot.
Safety supply should carry them - not cheap.
Elmo
> buy a pair of gauntlet style extrication gloves.
> buy a pair of the sleeves sold there as well.
Interesting.
That's the kind of information I didn't have that I was looking for!
Most extrication gloves are over $100 per pair but some are more reasonable
for your average homeowner:
http://www.gomed-tech.com/catalog/mtr-reflective-extrication-gloves.htm
http://www.chibaglovescanada.com/
http://www.hansenfire.com/glovesWildland.htm
http://www.urbanhart.com/shopsite/protectivegear_rescuegloves.html
I like the "elastic cuff" and the fact they're available in XL sizes. Some
even have a silica gell over the ulna nerve. I'm wondering if the ample
"kevlar" and "cordura" and "safecut" and "reflex" will keep out the
chemical urushiol oil though ... as they don't seem to use leather or
rubber.
Also, hopefully these expensive but intriguing extrication gloves are
washable as the urushiol is infectious even after a century outside!
mike
glyphosate? Why bother wrestling with them?
Doug Miller
>What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
>impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?
Work gloves? Who needs work gloves? I'm lucky enough to be pretty damn near
immune to the stuff, and I just pull it out with my bare hands. Ask around --
maybe someone you know is like me, and would be willing to pull it for you in
exchange for work on his place, or beer and pizza, or a sawbuck or three...
If you live in the Indianapolis area, maybe we can work something out. Email
doug at milmac dot com.
Elmo
> Work gloves? Who needs work gloves? I'm lucky enough to be pretty damn near
> immune to the stuff, and I just pull it out with my bare hands.
Hi Doug,
I'm in the chaparral country, nowhere near the lush forests.
But let me advise you of something important ... there are only two kinds
of people with respect to poison oak/ivy:
- Those who have been sensitized (and therefore who get the rash) ...
- And ... those you have yet to be sensitized (but are never immune)!
The bad news (for you) is that you are never immune to cell mediated
immunities such as that which urushiol causes - you just haven't been hit
with enough oil for your particular immune system to react (lucky you!).
Putting it another way, you just have a "lousy" immune system (luckily for
you), which doesn't react to the doses you have encountered so far in your
life. But, trust me (look it up if you don't believe me), you WILL get
poison oak eventually if you're exposed to the urushiol enough.
Nobody is "immune"; some just haven't gotten a good enough dose to make
their immune system react ... and once it reacts ... it never forgets.
Note: If you're on immunosuppressants, then you might not react even after
having been sensitized.
Elmo
> So, Elmo, why aren't you just killing these awful plants with
> glyphosate? Why bother wrestling with them?
Probably I didn't explain the problem sufficiently.
Maybe these photographs help:
http://img338.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=poisonoakurushiolchapar.jpg
I hope they show the problem. Basically I'm trying to clear a large area of
the plant. Even when dead, the poison oak plants have shown themselves to
be infectious for a century. All parts of the plant, from the roots to the
stems to the leaves contain the irritating urushiol.
http://yfrog.com/9epoisonoakurushiolchaparjx
So, if I kill them; they're still there. The poison oak thickets are so
congested that a human can not possibly walk through the chaparral. The
chaparral is like a jungle.
http://img338.imageshack.us/g/poisonoakurushiolchapar.jpg
The only way through it is to hack your way through. The vines and bushes
go up maybe twenty feet so what I'm really doing is tunneling a "Cumberland
Gap" through them. Even when you walk on the ground, you're actually on a
foot high crunching mass of old vines, which your feet sink into every few
steps, allowing the poison oak urushiol to get at your ankles and lower
legs.
At first I hacked away with a machete, then I used pruning shears to cut
the inch-thick branches; and then the chain saw to cut through the
non-poison-oak trees and bushes which the poison oak is intertwined with.
I get maybe ten feet an hour but I have acres and acres to complete. I
don't mind the work; actually I enjoy it. But, as with any good adversary,
it pays to protect yourself from its defenses as you work your way through
the thickets.
In summary, unless I'm missing the biodegradation part, killing the plant
does absolutely nothing (well, maybe it eliminates the leaves) when you're
hacking your way through a thicket of vastly intertwined species of stems
that are at times thicker than your wrist.
Maybe I'm wrong, but, killing them won't remove them. They're so thick, and
interwined with good species, that the only way to remove them selectively
is to cut through them.
EXT
"jamesgangnc" <james...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:268b4d99-4fcc-4771...@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
That would be my preferred method. I recall, in the days when one could
easily get the stuff that you don't use 24D for brush and poison ivy but the
better chemical is 245T a close but stronger relative. I don't know if you
can even buy the stuff now.
mike
Address.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:32:25 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:
> > So, Elmo, why aren't you just killing these awful plants with
> > glyphosate? Why bother wrestling with them?
>
> Probably I didn't explain the problem sufficiently.
>
>
> I hope they show the problem. Basically I'm trying to clear a large area of
> the plant. Even when dead, the poison oak plants have shown themselves to
> be infectious for a century. All parts of the plant, from the roots to the
>
> So, if I kill them; they're still there. The poison oak thickets are so
> congested that a human can not possibly walk through the chaparral. The
>
> The only way through it is to hack your way through. The vines and bushes
> go up maybe twenty feet so what I'm really doing is tunneling a "Cumberland
> Gap" through them. Even when you walk on the ground, you're actually on a
> foot high crunching mass of old vines, which your feet sink into every few
> steps, allowing the poison oak urushiol to get at your ankles and lower
> legs.
>
> At first I hacked away with a machete, then I used pruning shears to cut
> the inch-thick branches; and then the chain saw to cut through the
> non-poison-oak trees and bushes which the poison oak is intertwined with.
>
> I get maybe ten feet an hour but I have acres and acres to complete. I
> don't mind the work; actually I enjoy it. But, as with any good adversary,
> it pays to protect yourself from its defenses as you work your way through
> the thickets.
>
> In summary, unless I'm missing the biodegradation part, killing the plant
> does absolutely nothing (well, maybe it eliminates the leaves) when you're
> hacking your way through a thicket of vastly intertwined species of stems
> that are at times thicker than your wrist.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong, but, killing them won't remove them. They're so thick, and
> interwined with good species, that the only way to remove them selectively
> is to cut through them.
No. The irritating oils completely break down in about a year after
death.
Acres of poison ivy infested thicket? Yikes. I'd be tempted to rent
a bulldozer to clear the whole damn thing, and replant from scratch.
LM
> Get the good neoprene impregnated cloth hazmat gloves
BTW, I don't know about neoprene, but poison oak urushiol apparently goes
right through latex gloves!
:(
mike
> Acres of poison ivy infested thicket? Yikes. I'd be tempted to rent
>
> - Show quoted text -
P.S. I'd at least want to bulldoze a path so I could use herbicides.
From the stuff I've read, pulling poison ivy from dry soil will not be
very effective. It'll just regrow vigorously from root parts left
behind. You're going to have to find a way to apply herbicides.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
The beuty of neoprene is it is totally resistant and impervious to
oils and alkalis
Elmo
> The irritating oils completely break down in about a year after
> death.
I wish! I really do. If you can find a reliable reference that says that,
I'd love to read it thoroughly as (see below), it has been proven to be
infectius for more than a century after the plants died (dendritic samples
in drawers).
The urushiol is in every part of the plant (even tiny hairs on the stem):
http://www.curtbeebe.com/docs/biochemistry.html
Only a few molecules are needed to cause a rash:
http://www.curtbeebe.com/docs/Urushiol.html)
An amount the size of the tip of a needle can cause a rash:
http://www.technuextreme.com/faq.htm
Some assert urushiol is infectious forever:
http://www.poison-ivy.org/html/faq.htm
"The oil from poison ivy is extremely stable and will stay potent -
essentially forever."
Others show examnples where urushiol infectivity lasts a century:
http://tinyurl.com/ybkublp
"For stability urushiol has few equals-it has been found active in dried
plants that date back more than 100 years."
Yet others assert urushiol is infectious only for a few years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_ivy
"Urushiol oil can remain active for several years, so handling dead leaves
or vines can cause a reaction."
> Acres of poison ivy infested thicket? Yikes. I'd be tempted to rent
> a bulldozer to clear the whole damn thing, and replant from scratch.
It's way too steep to get a bulldozer or bobcat from what I've been told.
It's hard enough to climb in there on foot, as it is.
Elmo
>> I kill it off with 24d and wait 6 months or so before trying to clear
>> it.
>
> That would be my preferred method.
Mine too! If it would work.
Unfortunately, killing the leaves does nothing to clear the thicket of the
infectious stems and roots.
See these pictures to get an idea of the chaparral we're talking about:
http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=3D45906740.jpg
Your feet are a foot off the ground due to the intertwined dead stems which
then go up and over everything to a height greater than twenty feet. It's
almost like a jungle (although I've never been in a real jungle so I can't
say for sure.)
Also see my previous references which claim that a tiny drop the size of a
pin point is infectious months, years, proven cases of a century in samples
stored in archives, and some people say, essentially forever.
This is deep in a valley where you can't even walk through the stuff w/o
hacking away with a machete and/or power cutters. I don't think a bobcat or
bulldozer can get in there either because I have to climb down a rope cut
through the poison oak just to get to the bottom where most of the work
lies.
PREVIOUS REFERENCES:
mike
Your plants aren't going to be stored inside, dried. They'll be
subject to weather (sun, water, fungus, bugs, bacteria).
Quote: :It usually takes a year or so before the toxic properties
weather away."
Source: http://www.hort.uconn.edu/ipm/homegrnd/htms/60poisivy.htm
Elmo
> P.S. I'd at least want to bulldoze a path so I could use herbicides.
I'd love that too! Unfortunately, the access to the areas I'm clearing is
very steep! I have to climb down a rope that I posted in the ground after
cutting through the tangle of poison oak.
What steepness of a soft hillside can a bulldozer go down?
I'm not sure how to measure the steepness of the access points, but, I'd
say a six-foot tall human is below the lip in about 9 or ten feet. That is,
in only a few steps (about four or so), you're already below where you
started. It's pretty steep.
I'll see if I can snap a picture of the steepness to give you an idea. If a
bobcat can get down a cliff, I'd LOVE to rent one and do it myself!
Elmo
> http://www.hort.uconn.edu/ipm/homegrnd/htms/60poisivy.htm
Hi Mike,
That's a very interesting article, which says urushiol "is very stable, and
dead and dried material is as hazardous to sensitive people as an
actively-growing plant. It is equally active in the dead of winter. Many
people have caught poison ivy from dead poison ivy plants. It usually takes
a year or so before the toxic properties weather away".
Even though the urushiol in poison oak is different than that in poison ivy
(http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00215a002), your point is valid,
that the urushiol might "weather away" (whatever that means). I suppose it
oxidizes to something other than urushiol.
Interesting ...
I'm digging in google to try to find what that weathering mechanism might
be as it's mighty interesting because that might actually be a way to
combat it. Maybe we can hasten that 'weathering' to a few days instead of
to a few months or years?????
http://www.japanese-antiquities.com/235/japanese-urushi-sons-lidded-birth-bowl/
"Urushiol is an oily substance contained in the sap and when it is exposed
to humidity and warmth, an enzyme is activated that extracts oxygen from
water and supplies it to the urushiol. Then the urushiol solidifies, which
forms a hard film."
The Japanese have mastered a way to make Urushiol non inflammatory:
http://www.pentrace.net/east/wajima/urushi.html
Even so, the thicket is so thick that a human can't walk through it and it
goes over twenty feet high (see the pictures previously posted):
http://img338.yfrog.com/gal.php?g=poisonoakurushiolchapar.jpg
So, I'm not sure how I would even think of applying a herbicide to kill
huge amounts plants I can't even get to without hacking my way through
them.
But I do thank you for the idea. So far we've gotten a few good ideas. And,
if we can find a way to inactivate the urushiol from the toxicodendron in
less than a few months' time (i.e., hasten the weathering), we'd all be
doing the world a favor!
Elmo
> Ask your pharmacist about IvyBlock.
I didn't mention it but you can see a bottle of the stuff in the pictures I
posted at
http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg
Apparently it's the same bentonite that drillers use.
I didn't mention it (because I was concentrating on the gloves), but I use
layering when I cut tunnels in the chaparral of Western Poison Oak
(Toxicodendron diversilobum or Rhus diversiloba):
1. Ivy Block on my hands and wrists (also face and neck, ankles and feet);
2. Nitrile gloves on my hands
3. Gauntlet style heavy leather work gloves (pig or deerskin mig welding
gloves)
Chemicals alone won't prevent poison oak rash at the huge concentrations
I'm being exposed to.
I can see the oils on my gloves and clothes before it turns black. It takes
a day or so to turn black but you can see the oil it's so thick (and it
takes only a few molecules, the size of a pin point, to give you a rash).
Steve W.
The outer layer offers NO protection other than normal abrasive
resistance. It is the layers under it that stop the oils and other
problem items.
They can be decontaminated for most other things so I would say washing
them isn't a problem.
Steve W.
I've taken dozers down some pretty steep grades. How long is the graded
area before it levels off? A dozer with a winch on it would do the job
easily.
Pat
>
> What steepness of a soft hillside can a bulldozer go down?
>
A bulldozer can go down a very steep slope. The problems occur when you
want to go back up. However the dozer comes with a blade attached so you
can make a road to the bottom. Some come with winches on the back. The
winch will allow you to manuver up and down the slope as well provided there
is a handy stump to fasten to. Brush cutters can be mounted on excavators.
The excavator will have the ability to reach quite a distance. You need
some machinery to clear the land and then you will need to apply a herbicide
such as Garlon several times to kill the new sprouts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpYEr0h8f8s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qodc4bKR5gY
Kat Rabun
> Roundup kills the root system, not just the leaves.
I understand. But did you look at the pictures of how thick the chaparral
is? No way will roundup work. Unless I'm missing something critical.
http://img338.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=poisonoakurushiolchapar.jpg
As in all threads, I can't put all the information in the first post so I
stuck with the relevancy for gloves. But, I did buy the Costco roundup
concentrate which costs IIRC about a hundred bucks.
I haven't been able to use the weed killer yet except on the areas I
already cut because there is no way I can think of to spray the stuff if I
can't even get my arm into the thicket more than a couple of feet.
I have to go hundreds of yards. The roundup can won't spray that far! :)
So, my plan for the roundup is to keep the path I've cut clear of NEW
poison oak growth.
But, even if the roundup did work, I'd still need good gloves to hack it
all up and carry it away, wouldn't I? Or do you suggest burning it where it
lies or doing some other composting of the poison oak leaves, stems, and
roots?
Doug Miller
>On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:32:26 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> Work gloves? Who needs work gloves? I'm lucky enough to be pretty damn near
>> immune to the stuff, and I just pull it out with my bare hands.
>
>Hi Doug,
>
>I'm in the chaparral country, nowhere near the lush forests.
>
>But let me advise you of something important ... there are only two kinds
>of people with respect to poison oak/ivy:
>- Those who have been sensitized (and therefore who get the rash) ...
>- And ... those you have yet to be sensitized (but are never immune)!
Wrong. Some people simply don't react to it (or don't react much). I'm in that
category.
>
>The bad news (for you) is that you are never immune to cell mediated
>immunities such as that which urushiol causes - you just haven't been hit
>with enough oil for your particular immune system to react (lucky you!).
That's exactly my point. I'm one of the lucky ones whose immune system won't
react unless it gets an almost impossibly high exposure.
>
>Putting it another way, you just have a "lousy" immune system (luckily for
>you), which doesn't react to the doses you have encountered so far in your
>life. But, trust me (look it up if you don't believe me), you WILL get
>poison oak eventually if you're exposed to the urushiol enough.
The point is that for some people, including me, "enough" is a very, very
large amount, much more than it's possible to get.
I once spent an entire day tearing the stuff out of a fenceline, barehanded.
By early afternoon, it had gotten hot enough that I stripped off my shirt. I
took no precautions whatever -- I'd been exposed to it enough as a teenager,
and not reacted, that I had no reason to worry. Shoving the stuff into
trashbags, I had my arms in it up to the shoulders. I was wearing cutoff
jeans, too, BTW, so no protection below mid-thigh, or above the waist.
That's a hell of a dose.
Four days later, I had one dime-sized spot of rash on my chest, and another on
one forearm -- and that was it.
Years later, as I was changing the brakes on our car at the edge of the
driveway (again wearing cutoffs) my wife walked up and asked me if I knew I
was sitting in poison ivy. Looked down -- huh. So I am. Oh, well. She was
surprised I didn't move -- told her I've been sitting on that plant for half
an hour already, so it's too late to make a difference.
No reaction.
I'm 52 years old. The episode with the fenceline is the *only* time in my
life I've ever had *any* reaction to it.
>
>Nobody is "immune";
That simply isn't true.
> some just haven't gotten a good enough dose to make
>their immune system react ... and once it reacts ... it never forgets.
Neither is that.
My own experience shows that; I *did* react to it, though very, very mildly,
after the day on the fenceline, and, although I *know* I've been in contact
with it since (the brake job, for example, and just last year pulling weeds) I
have never reacted to it again, at all, ever.
>
>Note: If you're on immunosuppressants, then you might not react even after
>having been sensitized.
No immunosuppressants here.
Elmo
> I've taken dozers down some pretty steep grades. How long is the graded
> area before it levels off? A dozer with a winch on it would do the job
> easily.
A small golf-cart sized bulldozer WOULD be very nice indeed! The area I'm
clearing is along a brook so all I really need is to bulldoze one side of
the brook for a few hundred yards (maybe about 500 yards in length).
I'm not sure how to measure steepness, but, I can throw a rock and hit the
top of trees at the bottom. I'm guessing that I'm thirty to fifty feet
above the bottom when I'm at the top. I'd say the bottom is about twenty or
thirty feet away from the top in terms of horizontal distance.
Can a small golf-cart sized bulldozer get down that?
Right now, by hand, I can only cut the seasonal stream itself. That is,
while I'm standing in the middle of the foot-wide stream, I can hack
straight above me and cut the poison oak vines enough so that I can walk
down the center of the stream. The opening above the water is about 3 feet
wide.
The banks are so steep, that even on the banks that I've cleared, you only
have a foot or two to place your feet and you constantly have to grab a
tree branch so as to not fall into the channel. I was going to dig at it
with a shovel to cut it away but a bulldozer the size of a golf cart would
be perfect.
The stream is never level but it's pretty flat at the bottom for most of
those 500 yards. I'd say the first 30 or 50 feet are the killer in terms of
steepness. If I can get the golf-cart sized bulldozer down and then back
up, that would be very nice.
I'll check if u-haul rents bulldozers...
Elmo
> The outer layer offers NO protection other than normal abrasive
> resistance. It is the layers under it that stop the oils and other
> problem items.
>
> They can be decontaminated for most other things so I would say washing
> them isn't a problem.
Perfect! I'm gonna get me a pair of these extrication gloves!
Elmo
>>The bad news (for you) is that you are never immune to cell mediated
>>immunities such as that which urushiol causes - you just haven't been hit
>>with enough oil for your particular immune system to react (lucky you!).
>
> That's exactly my point. I'm one of the lucky ones whose immune system won't
> react unless it gets an almost impossibly high exposure.
Hi Doug,
I'm glad you don't get a serious reaction to poison oak. You're one of the
lucky ones.
I did base my statements on research, e.g., see this which said almost
exactly what I said:
http://www.knoledge.org/oak/
"There are only two kinds of people: Those who get Poison Oak, and those
who are going to get it."
However, I did read what you wrote which is that you get it very slightly
and that you've been heavily exposed many times. (BTW, if you've seen the
black marks all over your clothes, as if someone attacked you with a black
marker, then you've been heavily exposed, in my opinion.)
Anyway, as I said, I'm very glad you are only slightly reactive to poison
oak urushiol. I hope, as you said, that it's a nearly permanent immunity as
almost all articles say the apparent immunity changes over time:
http://www.mdvaden.com/poison_oak.shtml
"Everybody including the "immune" should be cautious, because "immunity" to
poison oak may change. The term "immune" is a bit figurative, because it's
the immune system that generates the minor and severe rashes from poison
oak."
But, in the end, you probably don't have a whole lot of special effort
T-cells for the poison oak allergen. Lucky for you!
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm#natural
Unfortunatly for me, and many others, I get it 100% of the time that cut
and visibly oozing poison oak stems come in contact with my skin. My
clothes are covered in black marks (see the pictures I originally posted of
my gloves, for example, which were only used a few times before they were
covered in black marks).
http://img696.yfrog.com/gal.php?g=45906740.jpg
Elmo
> I'm digging in google to try to find what that weathering mechanism might
> be as it's mighty interesting because that might actually be a way to
> combat it. Maybe we can hasten that 'weathering' to a few days instead of
> to a few months or years?????
While digging up, I found another reference to centuries-old "preserved"
specimens causing contact dermititis in people sensitive to urushiol.
Here's the reference said about PRESERVED specimens (i.e., not weathered):
http://www.mdvaden.com/poison_oak.shtml
"The urushiol can remain potent for months, even years. One resource
records that centuries-old preserved specimens of poison oak caused
dermatitis to people sensitive to urushiol. Urushiol can remain active on
dead plants for as much as 5 years, and on unwashed clothing for a year or
two."
I'm surprised the urushiol remained potent far longer on outdoor plants (5
years) than on indoor unwashed clothing (1 or 2 years); but one take away
is that just killing the plant doesn't solve the problem of needing gloves
to remove the huge piles of dead plants blocking access.
But, I'm liking the bulldozer idea more and more as we speak ...
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Whatever you do, don't burn the stuff. The smoke is also "active"
unless you can get it up over something like 1500C, consistently.
JIMMIE
Address.invalid> wrote:
> What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
> impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?
>
>
> So far, these are the gloves I've tried (most of which failed miserably)!
> - Pics here:http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
> - Albumhttp://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg
>
> Specifically, what skin is best for repeated washings?
> - cowhide? goatskin? deerskin? what skin is best?
> And, what gloves are available that are long and durable?
> - garden gloves? oxy-welder's gloves? mig welders gloves? (what else?)
>
> Cotton/leather work gloves are wholly unsatisfactory:
> - They wash well; but the thin leather is worn out after 1 or two uses;
> - They're too short to be of much use in heavy infestations;
> - Worse yet, the back cotton allows urushiol to penetrate to the skin!
>
> Leather work gloves are slightly better, but still wholly unsatisfactory:
> - They're strong enough to take the wear of a few uses in the chapparal;
> - But they're too short so my wrists get covered in the black oil;
> - Worse yet, an XL comes out of the wash as an L which is smaller still;
> - Yet the leather gets hard as a rock after a few wash cycles!
>
> Cowhide oxy-acetylene welder's gloves are also unsatisfactory:
> - They're nicely long so they cover the wrists perfectly;
> - And, it's no problem finding an XL size to fit my large hands;
> - And they're thick enough not to wear through on the first few uses;
> - And they come out of repeated wash cycles as hard as serpentine!
> - But they're just too cumbersome to use around power trimming tools!
>
> I just tried the pigskin mig-welding gloves with some success:
> - They're nicely long, almost as long as the O2 welder's gloves;
> - They're all leather like the leather garden gloves so they're strong;
> - And the leather is thinner than gas welder's gloves (nice and nimble);
> - And, you can get them in XL sizes which don't seem to shrink too much;
> - But they too get hard as a rock after repeated wash cycles!
>
> Next I'm going to try the goatskin mig welding gloves:
> - Like the pigskin mig welding gloves, they're long & seemingly durable;
> - And, they seem to give a bit more "feel" than the pigskin gloves do;
> - Also, I can get them in XL sizes (but I hope they don't shrink too much);
> - Mostly, I hope they don't get as rock hard after a few wash cycles.
>
> If the goatskin mig welding gloveds don't work, I'll try the deerskin mig
> welding gloves; but there must be someone out there who has worked in heavy
> impenetrable thickets of poison oak and/or poison ivy and/or poison sumac
> who has solved this problem.
>
> What other gloves can you recommend for protection when cutting through
> heavy thickets of poison oak, when you're covered in black urushiol marks
> from head to toe?
>
> Requirements are:
> - Available in size XL (and needs to stay XL after repeated washing!)
> - Must be durable (can't have any cloth) and must cover the wrists!
> - But can't be so thick as to hinder the use of power tool controls.
> - A bonus would be if it stays pliable after repeated machine washings!
WHATEVER YOU DO DONT BURN IT. THE SMOKE IS LETHAL.
Jimmie
Doug Miller
>On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 23:17:24 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>>The bad news (for you) is that you are never immune to cell mediated
>>>immunities such as that which urushiol causes - you just haven't been hit
>>>with enough oil for your particular immune system to react (lucky you!).
>>
>> That's exactly my point. I'm one of the lucky ones whose immune system won't
>> react unless it gets an almost impossibly high exposure.
>
>Hi Doug,
>
>I'm glad you don't get a serious reaction to poison oak. You're one of the
>lucky ones.
>
>I did base my statements on research, e.g., see this which said almost
>exactly what I said:
>http://www.knoledge.org/oak/
>"There are only two kinds of people: Those who get Poison Oak, and those
>who are going to get it."
>
>However, I did read what you wrote which is that you get it very slightly
>and that you've been heavily exposed many times. (BTW, if you've seen the
>black marks all over your clothes, as if someone attacked you with a black
>marker, then you've been heavily exposed, in my opinion.)
Clothes, hell. I've had them on my skin.
>
>Anyway, as I said, I'm very glad you are only slightly reactive to poison
>oak urushiol.
Yeah, me too. :-)
>I hope, as you said, that it's a nearly permanent immunity as
>almost all articles say the apparent immunity changes over time:
>
>http://www.mdvaden.com/poison_oak.shtml
>"Everybody including the "immune" should be cautious, because "immunity" to
>poison oak may change. The term "immune" is a bit figurative, because it's
>the immune system that generates the minor and severe rashes from poison
>oak."
>
>But, in the end, you probably don't have a whole lot of special effort
>T-cells for the poison oak allergen. Lucky for you!
Yep! :-)
>http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm#natural
>
>Unfortunatly for me, and many others, I get it 100% of the time that cut
>and visibly oozing poison oak stems come in contact with my skin. My
>clothes are covered in black marks (see the pictures I originally posted of
>my gloves, for example, which were only used a few times before they were
>covered in black marks).
>http://img696.yfrog.com/gal.php?g=45906740.jpg
My younger son, and my sister-in-law, would have both required hospitalization
if they had done what I did. My older son probably would have had much the
same response that I did -- essentially none.
aemeijers
Based on previous threads here, and a few real-world stories- running a
bulldozer anywhere near flowing water is fraught with bureaucratic and
legal peril, leastways if a neighbor gets a burr up their butt about it,
like if you make the water start running muddy, or if the creek supports
any lifeforms. Corps of Engineers, state DNR, state and federal EPA,
local drain district authority, the list is endless.
No, common sense has nothing to do with it.
Just sayin'
--
aem sends...
dan
sci.engr.joining.welding mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Fri, 9 Apr 2010 22:14:11 +0000 (UTC):
>So, I'm not sure how I would even think of applying a herbicide to kill
>huge amounts plants I can't even get to without hacking my way through
>them.
you can't. But when you cut the stuff down, spray the cut end with
herbicide. That will kill the roots.
--
Dan H.
northshore MA.
Leo Lichtman
off afterward. Mechanics use this type of thing to make hand washing easier
at the end of the day. I understand fire fighters also use this stuff when
they have to go into a burning area with poison oak.
Martin H. Eastburn
The nitrile is to protect you from the gloves and the gloves from
hard work that tears plastic.
Take leather off and you can spray them down with a soap.
Then wash hands in soapy water (with gloves on) and dry off with
paper towels and throw them away.
Then take off the plastic gloves and run for your life!
We have it all over here - roundup takes it out - but sometimes
it is so big - 1/4" stalk - that it takes several treatments.
Martin
Elmo wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 11:32:58 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:
>
>>> http://img696.imageshack.us/g/45906740.jpg/
>> Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.
>
> Cheap would be fine if it also worked (at least once).
>
> But, as shown in the well-annotated pictures here (
> http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg ) ...
>
> Neoprene or latex or nitrile gloves are cheap, but they tear in seconds
> outdoors and they don't cover the wrists from urushiol (still, I wear them
> UNDER the leather gloves) ...
>
> Garden gloves are less cheap (about 10 bucks a pair); but they don't work
> (too thin, too short, and too permiable too urushiol) ...
>
> Welders gloveds are decidedly not cheap; and they seem to work the best (so
> far); but I'm wasting lots of time and money on testing them one by one
> (first oxy cowhide, then mig pigskin, and now mig goatskin (next would be
> mig deerskin))...
>
> Surely someone other than me has worked in poison oak/ivy before me?
>
> What do outdoor firefighters use for gloves?
> What do outdoor field workers use for gloves?
>
> Certainly someone must have the experience & recommendation that I lack for
> outdoor gloves that are long, durable, and can be washed repeatedly???
>
> Here are my experiments so far (deerskin mig welding gloves are next):
> http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg
>
Elmo
> Use nitrile or latex gloves and cover them with leather gloves.
That's good advice and I already wear Costco nitrile gloves under my
pigskin mig-welding gloves.
You can see the box of nitrile gloves in the picture posted previously:
http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
However, some say urushiol readily permeates latex )i.e., rubber) so I
wouldn't recommend rubber latex gloves withought further study.
http://www.drreddy.com/poisonivy.html
"urushiol can also penetrate clothes, rubber gloves, and latex gloves.
(Heavy-duty vinyl gloves are impervious to urushiol"
http://beatpsoriasis.com/poison-ivy.htm
"Urushiol can penetrate latex gloves but not rubber gloves."
http://www.infocusnews.net/content/view/38496/1189/
"use precautions such as vinyl gloves because urushiol can penetrate latex
gloves"
http://www.naturalpedia.com/URUSHIOL.html
"If you're going to be pulling weeds, wear heavy-duty vinyl gloves. The
resin may be able to penetrate rubber (latex)"
Elmo
> There are hand creams on the market that you can apply in advance, and wash
> off afterward.
The use of hand cremes on the knees and ankles might prevent Toxicodendron
dermatitis in those unexpected spots.
I sometimes find when the urushiol is so thick, it leaves black oxidized
marks on my ankles after a few hours tromping around as noted here:
http://www.drreddy.com/poisonivy.html
Then, the Rhus Dermititis rash is almost certain to occur.
If I had put a hand creme all over my body, especially my knees and ankles,
maybe it would have prevented these unexpected infections.
benick
news:8b31952d-aa1b-4f8a...@i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.
That's what I do...I buy the big bag of brown cheapo gloves at Wal*Mart and
toss them...Works for me and I'm VERY allergic to that stuff...HTH...Why
make it more complicated than it needs to be??
Elmo
> I buy the big bag of brown cheapo gloves at Wal*Mart and
> toss them...Works for me and I'm VERY allergic to that stuff...
The only problem with that is the typical "work glove" is too short to
cover the wrists as can be seen in the original photos posted at
http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg
I find my wrists are constantly lacerated by the millions of cut branches,
hence, the need for a gauntlet type work glove (harder to find, and more
expensive).
Also, the urushiol oil easily penetrates most cloth gloves and some say it
can penetrate thin leathers, both of which are likely in el cheapo work
gloves.
Good gloves are necessary given the huge amount of poison oak to be cleared
is an impenetrable jungle as shown in these photos here
http://yfrog.com/9epoisonoakurushiolchaparjx
http://img338.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=poisonoakurushiolchapar.jpg
BTW, I found this article while searching that suggests powders such as
starch or flour ... interesting ...
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03357.htm
Elmo
> My younger son, and my sister-in-law, would have both required hospitalization
> if they had done what I did. My older son probably would have had much the
> same response that I did -- essentially none.
Based on what it says in this web site, you and your older son probably
react onlty to three or more degrees of saturation on the carbon chain
hanging off the urushiol catechol while your son and sinister in law likely
react to the unsaturated chain or one or two degrees of saturation:
See http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Urushiol
"The allergic reaction is dependent on the degree of unsaturation of the
alkyl chain. Less than half of the general population reacts with the
saturated urushiol alone, but over 90% react with urushiol containing at
least two degrees of unsaturation (double bonds)."
Steve W.
>
> Based on previous threads here, and a few real-world stories- running a
> bulldozer anywhere near flowing water is fraught with bureaucratic and
> legal peril, leastways if a neighbor gets a burr up their butt about it,
> like if you make the water start running muddy, or if the creek supports
> any lifeforms. Corps of Engineers, state DNR, state and federal EPA,
> local drain district authority, the list is endless.
>
> No, common sense has nothing to do with it.
>
> Just sayin'
>
Yeah it can get interesting depending on where you are and what you do.
The stream that runs behind my place is a "Class 2 trout habitat" Get
caught in the stream with any machinery (other than a farm tractor
crossing the stream) and the state gets nasty.
So DON'T get CAUGHT!!!!!
--
Steve W.
Elmo
> Clothes, hell. I've had them on my skin.
>>
>>Anyway, as I said, I'm very glad you are only slightly reactive to poison
>>oak urushiol.
>
> Yeah, me too. :-)
For your sake though, you should not tramp through the poison oak with
impugnity.
Notice Wayne himself, in Waynesworld, says he used to be immune ... until
...
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm
"Caution: Cutting and sanding poison oak wood is extremely unwise and
hazardous--even if you think you are immune to its dermatitis. This is how
one of the authors (WPA) was rudely initiated into the ranks of poison oak
sufferers, after tramping through it for decades with impunity."
Gunner Asch
<dcdraf...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
>
>Good gloves are necessary given the huge amount of poison oak to be cleared
>is an impenetrable jungle as shown in these photos here
>http://yfrog.com/9epoisonoakurushiolchaparjx
>http://img338.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=poisonoakurushiolchapar.jpg
>
>BTW, I found this article while searching that suggests powders such as
>starch or flour ... interesting ...
>http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03357.htm
Oil field gloves are what you want....
http://unitedglove.thomasnet.com/category/supported-support-pvc-coated-gloves
http://unitedglove.thomasnet.com/viewitems/durawear-protective-sleeves/disposable-sleeves?
http://unitedglove.thomasnet.com/viewitems/durawear-disposable-clothing/coverall-with-collar?
Nearly everyone in my neck of the woods wears rubber oil patch gloves.
Gunner
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
HeyBub
> What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
> impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?
>
> I'm covered in black poison urushiol from head to toe!
>
I'd try welder's gloves (or similar) to keep from getting burned as I
operated the flame-thrower. (Don't forget the ear, eye, nose, throat, and
underarm protection.)
Elmo
I am currently using arc welders gloves as the flame welder's gloves were
way too thick to operate gas cutting equipment.
The only problem with these mig welding gloves is they don't handle
repeated washings well. http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
I'm trying to find which is the best skin for washing:
- deerskin gloves?
- kangaroo skin gloves?
- cowhide gloves?
- pigskin gloves?
- goatskin gloves?
Here is a comparison of the various skins, but not with respect to phenols:
http://www.unitedglove.com/leather.htm
I really like the idea of a flame thrower ... :) But in the dry chaparral,
not only would the smoke itself be dangerous (urushiol, being a
hydrocarbon, can burn but being an oil, it can also form droplets in the
air which can be inhaled), but the fire itself would need to be contained.
Melissa Andrade
> Requirements are:
> - Available in size XL (and needs to stay XL after repeated washing!)
> - Must be durable (can't have any cloth) and must cover the wrists!
> - But can't be so thick as to hinder the use of power tool controls.
> - A bonus would be if it stays pliable after repeated machine washings!
http://www.unitedglove.com/leather.htm
a) Cowhide dries stiff when it gets wet, becoming hard and losing its
flexibility.
b) Goatskin leather has the highest natural lanolin content, which makes a
very soft and flexible glove that retains its pliability after getting wet.
c) Deerskin gloves do not stiffen after getting wet repeatedly and form to
the hand over time.
d) High lanolin content keeps pigskin leather soft which does not dry out
and crack after repeatedly getting wet.
So, it looks like, for repeated washings, you want:
1) Goatskin
2) Pigskin
3) Deerskin
4) Cowhide
In that order.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Leo Lichtman
"Elmo" wrote: (clp) If I had put a hand creme all over my body, especially
> maybe it would have prevented these unexpected infections.
Putting it all over the body seems a bit extreme, but--whatever it takes.
Realize, of course, that you are comparing a whole body treatment to the
wearing of gloves. I would try using the cream on hands, forearms and other
areas where you have experienced the problem, and rely on some kind of
coveralls for full body protection.
Elmo
> I would try using the cream on hands, forearms and other
> areas where you have experienced the problem, and rely on some kind of
> coveralls for full body protection.
I didn't mention it but I subscribe to the multi-layer approach with
respect to the whole body.
So I wear long pants and a long-sleeved shirt under my mechanics overalls
(coveralls?). And I wear nitrile gloves under the goatskin gauntlet style
mig/tig welding gloves.
Still, I'm so covered in the urushiol catechols that my wrists have visible
phenolic black marks from scrapes with the oxidized and polymerized
urushiol, especially when it's wet or when I sweat a lot.
So, the hand creme might be a good third layer on my wrists.
About the only part of my body exposed to the elements is my face, neck,
and ears ... but for some reason, they don't seem to get the rash as much
as my wrists, between my fingers, and on my ankles and toes.
Elmo
> Or, apply Roundup, repeat every 2-3 weeks if needed. If I
> needed to actually handle it myself I'd use rubber surgery gloves.
Everyone keeps suggesting Roundup. Maybe I'm missing something basic here.
Remember, we're talking a JUNGLE of intertwined vines. How am I supposed to
get Roundup a hundred yards from where I can't access, let alone five feet
from the thicket I'm trying to penetrate?
What am I missing that more than one person says Roundup will do the job?
We're talking hedgerow-thick impenetrable chaparral so thick a human can't
get more than a couple of feet into it before being stopped by the vines,
many of which are an inch to two inches thick along with the thinner stuff
as shown in the pictures previously posted.
http://img338.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=poisonoakurushiolchapar.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg
Anyone suggesting Roundup either knows something I can't possibly fathom (I
certainly hope so), or, they haven't seen the pictures (which is
understandable).
Maybe they know of a dissemination method that I haven't thought of, being
that there's no way to disburse Roundup a hundred yards from what you can
actually acess, let alone five to twenty feet from where you're standing.
Or is there???? How can Roundup possibly be disseminated thru these
impenetrable thickets (see the pictures)???????????????
Gunner Asch
Well..you can use a pressure sprayer and simply hose a few gallons out
there.
But..Id really suggest either a dozer..or fire. Both have risks and
require some planning.
Elmo
>>Or is there???? How can Roundup possibly be disseminated thru these
>>impenetrable thickets (see the pictures)???????????????
>
> Well..you can use a pressure sprayer and simply hose a few gallons out
> there.
> But..Id really suggest either a dozer..or fire. Both have risks and
> require some
I was thinking helicopter since the canyon sides may be too steep to get a
bulldozer in there ... :)
Seriously, I do have a pressure washer, but, wouldn't it use a LOT of
Roundup since it feeds from a garden hose? The garden hose is problematic
since there isn't a faucet within 500 yeards of the thicket I'm trying to
hack my way through. Plus, I'm not trying to clear a square area; I'm
cutting a path along the bank of a small stream where the stream itself is
choked with poison ivy so the first pass is the stream, the second pass is
the bank.
Lately I've been using a chain saw as my "light saber", standing in the
center of the stream channel, holding the chain saw high above my head and
slashing down to allow myself forward movement. I only need to cut a
man-sized tunnel so I don't have to get all the vines that are above 7 feet
or so.
I also use the chain saw to slash the ground as there's about a foot of
intertwined dead poison oak vines on the floor of the chaparral canyon on
the sides of the bank - much of which scrapes against my ankles causing
rashes when I am not careful enough.
Likewise, fire seems problematic because I wouldn't know how to keep it in
a straight line and it's dry chaparral besides ... which, if it went up in
flames, could be very dangerous.
Back to the roundup ... I guess I could slash my way through the stream
channel ... and THEN I could apply roundup to the sides of the bank. But
I'd still have to wait a year or so for the urushiol to "weather" out of
the vines (some say it never weathers out, others say it does). And, after
that year has passed, then I can clear off the dead vines.
But, that doesn't seem to be any less work than slashing my way through the
vines with all the cutting tools at my disposal. Or maybe I'm missing a key
point???????
tim birr
I come very late to this discussion, but have been reading your posts
for years and know you are very determined and usually find a
solution.
In this case, I have worked, lived, played, even had ...hmm, a few
"intimate experiences" <unfortunately> in and around poison oak.
So, that's some 42 years, if you count from about 8 years old.
The messages saying that the oil disappear after about a year or so,
are true in MY experience. I can't guarantee it for you and your
particular bushes. Maybe you have cream of the crop, top quality
hybrid poison oak and the oils last for centuries.
But for my Oregon poison oak on MY ranch, it lasts a year or so.
Unlucky enough to "get a rash." Zanfel is a wonder drug. Technu makes
a competing product that works just as well and is usually a little
cheaper. But neither are cheap. A small tube of the stuff is $25 or
more, but compared to poison oak misery, it's worth it. Just make
sure if you buy the Technu brand you are NOT buying just their
cleaner.
What you want is Technu EXTREME. You can google both Zanfel and
Technu to read about them.
A trip to the doctor also works, but is even more expensive and then
you get ultra high doses of steroids, which I prefer to avoid.
Finally, you'd be amazed at what a GOOD heavy equipment operator can
do for you, or the suggestions they can make. It wouldn't hurt to call
one to take a look. Pricewise, and misery-wise, you could come out way
ahead
Tim
dan
sci.engr.joining.welding mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
>On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:11:31 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
><dcdraf...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid>wrote:
>
>Don't forget your suit of armor and chain mail hauberk and coif.
Codpiece! Don't forget the codpiece!
aemeijers
Dumb question- why do you need access to this creek bed? Simple
contrariness, and a desire to walk wherever you please on your property?
Your best dog keeps getting stuck down there?
Mother nature has clearly labeled that a no-human zone. I'd be inclined
to post a few signs and say the hell with it. A whole lotta work to kill
it and remove it, and keep it from coming back.
--
aem sends...
Elmo
> What you want is Technu EXTREME. You can google both Zanfel and
> Technu to read about them.
> you'd be amazed at what a GOOD heavy equipment operator can
> do for you, or the suggestions they can make.
Hi Tim,
Thanks for the well worded advice. Maximum mysery, for me, seems to occur
three to five days after a heavy exposure to the three-leaved devil. I have
used the prophylactic ivyblock but not the Technu yet (didn't know about
"extreme" ... will check that out). My strategy is to prevent the resinous
catechols from touching my skin, hence the persistent need for
gauntlet-style nimble gloves.
On the topic of the method of clearing, I do think airlifting some heavy
equipment out there might work ... save for the cliff (as yet unknown
whether it's climbable) ... but, truth be told, I actually enjoy the
challenge and the exercise of hand clearing the land for the path along the
ravine brook.
Like you, the neighbors tell me to just hire some of the "day workers"
(they use a slightly different term) who frequent the hardware stores
around here so thickly that you'd think you're the object of adolation, at
least while driving up the driveway to the Home Depot.
I'm told "they are immune" or "don't know better", and for the $10/hour
(cash only for some strange reason) it costs per man, a crew of five would
likely clear the path in a day or three.
However, I do my own work, and enjoy it. The price is always to be paid,
and, in this case, the cost is the learning that must be done to deal with
thine enemy - that resinous sap of the redoubtable Toxicodendron
diversilobum species!
Elmo
Elmo
> Dumb question- why do you need access to this creek bed?
Just to enjoy a meandering walk along its banks.
aemeijers
Okay, that puts it in same class as mountain climbing- 'because it is
there'. Well, unless you kill yourself with the hazmat side effects, I
guess it is cheaper than a gym membership. :^/
Not a flame, mind you. I do understand. No SWMBO with a honey-do list,
on the premises?
--
aem sends....
Elmo
>>> Dumb question- why do you need access to this creek bed?
>> Just to enjoy a meandering walk along its banks.
> Okay, I guess it is cheaper than a gym membership.
I do consider it healthy exercise.
Just climbing out of the ravine gets me huffing and puffing.
Plus it's a few thousand feet up already (I don't know when the air gets
thinner noticably though so the height may not matter).
Gunner Asch
Id say standing on the banks and spraying the entire canyon with a
pressure sprayer fed from a 55 gallon drum full of water/Roundup mix is
your only actual logical course of action..or run a dozer down the
center, to clear a path ou can later work from. But it will take you a
year or more to get it cleaned out properly.
Im curious..have you considered talking to the local state or Federal
fire battalion? This would be an excellent "practice burn" for them to
train on and it would solve most of your problems all at the same time
and in a fast fashion.
Gunner, who once had the local fire department burn down a house that
needed to go, as a training situation.
Gunner Asch
Crom! Of course. Most important!
Gunner, who once bedded a willing and nubile lady in a patch of poison
ivy.....