Pacemakers and welding
Ignoramus6829
Cardiac pacemakers are electronic devices with sensing circuits which
detect small electrical signals from inside the heart. Pacemakers may
detect extraneous electrical signals from other sources. The pacemaker
can incorrectly interpret these signals as heart activity, which may
inhibit the pacemaker. The result could be no output pulse or
asynchronous pacing. Asynchronous pacing means that there is no
coordination between the heart and the pacemaker.
If you have a St. Jude Medical pacemaker and use or are in close
proximity to an electric welder, you shouldn’t have any
problems. However, this doesn’t mean that there is a total absence
of the effects of welding interference on pacemakers. Any problems
caused by radiated interference will end when the arcing ends.
http://www.sjm.com/_MediaAssets/documents/resources/precautionselectricarcwelding.pdf
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SteveB
"Ignoramus6829" <ignora...@NOSPAM.6829.invalid> wrote
Any problems
> caused by radiated interference will end when the arcing ends.
Or the wearer hits the deck.
Steve
Too_Many_Tools
wrote:
> Here's a very good article on this subject.
>
> Cardiac pacemakers are electronic devices with sensing circuits which
> detect small electrical signals from inside the heart. Pacemakers may
> detect extraneous electrical signals from other sources. The pacemaker
> can incorrectly interpret these signals as heart activity, which may
> inhibit the pacemaker. The result could be no output pulse or
> asynchronous pacing. Asynchronous pacing means that there is no
> coordination between the heart and the pacemaker.
>
> If you have a St. Jude Medical pacemaker and use or are in close
> problems. However, this doesn’t mean that there is a total absence
> of the effects of welding interference on pacemakers. Any problems
> caused by radiated interference will end when the arcing ends.
>
>
> --
> Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
> to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
> from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
> more readers you will need to find a different means of
> posting on Usenet.
> http://improve-usenet.org/
Good description.
The leads to the heart likely will act as an antenna...picking up the
welder's RF emissions and feeding them to the digital circuitry to
affect the internal processor.
I really suspect that during testing a pacemaker is NOT subjected to
this intensity of RF emissions...a cell phone or a microwave
likely...a welder not likely.
If I had a pacemaker, I would not be welding.
TMT
K Ludger
Good description.
The leads to the heart likely will act as an antenna...picking up the
welder's RF emissions and feeding them to the digital circuitry to
affect the internal processor.
I really suspect that during testing a pacemaker is NOT subjected to
this intensity of RF emissions...a cell phone or a microwave
likely...a welder not likely.
If I had a pacemaker, I would not be welding.
TMT
I don't know if welding with the pacemaker is good or not, any way.... I
know of an old old guy who has a pacemaker and puts his spare arm across his
chest as a "shield" when he MIG welds - obviously this may be against what
the Dr recommends and may not be safe.......
I've some experience in the testing of electronic devices for EMI
compliance. There are different standards for different classes of device -
ie kids toy v's electric wheelchair v's pacemaker. For devices needing a
degree of immunity from EMI the tests involve pointing an antenna at the
device and irradiating it with different levels and frequencies of RF
radiation. How this level of RF compares with that emitted by a TIG I don't
know. I'd be more worried about the high magnetic fields around a
spotwelder.
Michael Koblic
"Ignoramus6829" <ignora...@NOSPAM.6829.invalid> wrote in message
news:8r2dnXjRjKRENP7U...@giganews.com...
> Here's a very good article on this subject.
>
> Cardiac pacemakers are electronic devices with sensing circuits which
> detect small electrical signals from inside the heart. Pacemakers may
> detect extraneous electrical signals from other sources. The pacemaker
> can incorrectly interpret these signals as heart activity, which may
> inhibit the pacemaker. The result could be no output pulse or
> asynchronous pacing. Asynchronous pacing means that there is no
> coordination between the heart and the pacemaker.
>
> If you have a St. Jude Medical pacemaker and use or are in close
> problems. However, this doesnâ?Tt mean that there is a total absence
> of the effects of welding interference on pacemakers. Any problems
> caused by radiated interference will end when the arcing ends.
>
> http://www.sjm.com/_MediaAssets/documents/resources/precautionselectricarcwelding.pdf
>
Similar precautions apply to working on car engines and possibly other
activities generating electromagnetic fields. I have always been interested
in the effect of amateur radio on pacemakers. The research I did, some with
help of pacemaker company representatives, was rather inconclusive.
Personally I would avoid a ham shack in operation having seen RF sparks on
metal objects otherwise not connected to anything, light bulbs connected to
a piece of wire lit up by a KW with a key down, neighbours' lamps turned on
and off and many other amusing phenomena.
The message I think is that you *can* have problems while arc welding, be it
a St. Jude, Medtronics or any of the others. One problem not mentioned is
re-programming the pacemaker which may enter the back up mode and not revert
when the EM field is gone. Some may not notice it, some may become
symptomatic.
A similar situation arises during surgery when the surgeon uses
electro-cautery to stop bleeding. The usual procedure in this region is to
convert the pacemaker pre-operatively to a fixed output that cannot be
inhibited and crank up the voltage. The pacemaker is checked and
reprogrammed carefully back to the original settings after the surgery. This
is clearly not an option while welding :-)
Oh, and I would not expect a discussion with your MD to provide any more
information than what is in the article. Unless he works in a major centre
and does nothing but pacemakers. Even then I have my doubts...
--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
Too_Many_Tools
> "Ignoramus6829" <ignoramus6...@NOSPAM.6829.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:8r2dnXjRjKRENP7U...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Here's a very good article on this subject.
>
> > Cardiac pacemakers are electronic devices with sensing circuits which
> > detect small electrical signals from inside the heart. Pacemakers may
> > detect extraneous electrical signals from other sources. The pacemaker
> > can incorrectly interpret these signals as heart activity, which may
> > inhibit the pacemaker. The result could be no output pulse or
> > asynchronous pacing. Asynchronous pacing means that there is no
> > coordination between the heart and the pacemaker.
>
> > If you have a St. Jude Medical pacemaker and use or are in close
> > proximity to an electric welder, you shouldnâ?Tt have any
> > problems. However, this doesnâ?Tt mean that there is a total absence
> > of the effects of welding interference on pacemakers. Any problems
> > caused by radiated interference will end when the arcing ends.
>
>
> Similar precautions apply to working on car engines and possibly other
> activities generating electromagnetic fields. I have always been interested
> in the effect of amateur radio on pacemakers. The research I did, some with
> help of pacemaker company representatives, was rather inconclusive.
> Personally I would avoid a ham shack in operation having seen RF sparks on
> metal objects otherwise not connected to anything, light bulbs connected to
> a piece of wire lit up by a KW with a key down, neighbours' lamps turned on
> and off and many other amusing phenomena.
>
> The message I think is that you *can* have problems while arc welding, be it
> a St. Jude, Medtronics or any of the others. One problem not mentioned is
> re-programming the pacemaker which may enter the back up mode and not revert
> when the EM field is gone. Some may not notice it, some may become
> symptomatic.
>
> A similar situation arises during surgery when the surgeon uses
> electro-cautery to stop bleeding. The usual procedure in this region is to
> convert the pacemaker pre-operatively to a fixed output that cannot be
> inhibited and crank up the voltage. The pacemaker is checked and
> reprogrammed carefully back to the original settings after the surgery. This
> is clearly not an option while welding :-)
>
> Oh, and I would not expect a discussion with your MD to provide any more
> information than what is in the article. Unless he works in a major centre
> and does nothing but pacemakers. Even then I have my doubts...
>
> --
> Michael Koblic,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Good comments Mike...and I agree that electro-cauterization would be a
condition that they would likely test for.
TMT
Martin H. Eastburn
to much G force on the body and rips and tears. Naturally lots of
macho sports are out as well.
Martin
Michael Koblic
> The other restriction to most is firing a rifle. The impact puts
> to much G force on the body and rips and tears. Naturally lots of
> macho sports are out as well.
Not if you discuss it with the implanting surgeon and ask for the pocket to
be made on the left (for a right hander). Most pacemaker pockets are on the
right upper chest as the vascular access is easier from there but this is
not written in stone.
Martin H. Eastburn
Martin
Michael Koblic
"Martin H. Eastburn" <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in message
news:coz9l.82810$se4....@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
It is a reflection of current practice.
John
the sensing done at the tip of the "bipolar" leads. Instead of an antenna 12
inches long it will be 1/2 long. Bipolar leads are made by all implant
companies, Medtronics, Guidant, Biotronik etc etc. Sometimes a older style
monopolar lead may be used as they are usually thinner ( they only
incorporate one wire as opposed to 2 in bipolar).
John
alaba...@gmail.com
Also, could a weldor (one who welds, as opposed to the welder, which is the machine that the weldor uses) wear some kind of a EMI shield, like a faraday cage shirt, for example? Like this: http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html#245
Terry Coombs
> Does anyone have any insight into the relative impact differences between arc welding (MIG or stick, possibly others) and plasma arc welding, like TIG? I know that at some level, they are both an arc, but one is MUCH more of a nasty high-current crackling electrical arc than the other. TIG seems to be a very minimal electrical arc compared to MIG.
>
> Also, could a weldor (one who welds, as opposed to the welder, which is the machine that the weldor uses) wear some kind of a EMI shield, like a faraday cage shirt, for example? Like this: http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html#245
of the regulars there did a lot of research when he got - I forget if it
was a pacemaker or defib device - and he posted his results there .
--
Snag