Fan - Suck or Blow?
SteveB
blows air through the radiator rather than pulling it through and blowing it
over the engine. That's counter to (I think) every engine I've seen. Maybe
I just didn't notice on some of the big pumps and stuff. I was going to use
the side table to do some welding, and thought the blow from the fan would
be a problem. Then I fired it up and found out it blows the air the other
direction.
When I rebuilt this, I didn't take the fan off, nor any of the pulleys. So
this is the way it came or someone else before me changed it. Everything
seems to run fine, just seems a little odd.
Steve
"...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere
critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly,
not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done."
Theodore Roosevelt 1891
Ignoramus4557
i
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Russ
> I noticed something about my SA 200 that I found a little odd. The fan
> blows air through the radiator rather than pulling it through and blowing it
> over the engine. That's counter to (I think) every engine I've seen. Maybe
> I just didn't notice on some of the big pumps and stuff. I was going to use
> the side table to do some welding, and thought the blow from the fan would
> be a problem. Then I fired it up and found out it blows the air the other
> direction.
>
> When I rebuilt this, I didn't take the fan off, nor any of the pulleys. So
> this is the way it came or someone else before me changed it. Everything
> seems to run fine, just seems a little odd.
>
> Steve
A lot of industrial engines and heavy equipment engines are set up this
way to keep the hot air off the engine and the operator station.
You would have to install a different fan than the "pusher" fan to
change this.
Russ
RoyJ
and the shroud are very tight (think jet engine cross section), the
blowing air toward the radiator moves more air through it than sucking.
Grant Erwin
moving in a way that would "fight" the push-type radiator fan.
Grant
SteveB
"Ignoramus4557" <ignora...@NOSPAM.4557.invalid> wrote in message
news:L7udnezX8rogsrXV...@giganews.com...
> Check your car Steve, I think that it is doing the same thing.
>
> i
No, Ig. When I stand in front of my car, the air is being sucked in, not
blown out. There is no wind in front of my car. It goes INTO the engine
compartment through the radiator first. This exhausts through the radiator.
If a car pushed air in front of it, the forward travel of the car would
cause the cooling effect to be cancelled at some point. Think about it.
Steve
Ignoramus17662
>
Yes. You are right. I have a stomach bug and am not thinking well at
all. Sorry. I just used up my one "dumb answer of the month" coupon.
Tim Wescott
And if you look at new cars with electric fans they usually put them on
the front of the engine, or in a shroud, or both.
Note that most cars don't need to have a fan running when they're under
way -- it's only when the car is stopped that the fan is necessary to
keep the air moving.
--
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Bruce in Bangkok
Most Caterpillar equipment has fans rigged to blow out the front. If
you are in a car helling down the highway you want the air to come in
the front and go out the back, but when you are just sitting there it
doesn't make any difference.
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)
Gunner
The fan doesnt perform any additional cooling of engine bits and
components in a "in from the fan and over the engine" configuration?
Gunner
Private
"SteveB" <toquerville,utah@zionvistas> wrote in message
news:88vkf5-...@news.infowest.com...
>I noticed something about my SA 200 that I found a little odd. The fan
>blows air through the radiator rather than pulling it through and blowing
>it over the engine. That's counter to (I think) every engine I've seen.
>Maybe I just didn't notice on some of the big pumps and stuff. I was going
>to use the side table to do some welding, and thought the blow from the fan
>would be a problem. Then I fired it up and found out it blows the air the
>other direction.
>
> When I rebuilt this, I didn't take the fan off, nor any of the pulleys.
> So this is the way it came or someone else before me changed it.
> Everything seems to run fine, just seems a little odd.
Blow for summer, suck for winter.
A suck fan with closed side doors combined with head down and large rods can
actually boil the gas in the tank. Some heavy industrial machinery have
(manually) reversible fans and some weldors change their fans seasonally. A
suck fan can help to prevent moisture freezing at the bottom of the
crankcase ventilation (road draft) tube and also to prevent carb icing on
cool humid days. Most of us solve the freezing crankcase vent tube problem
by punching a small hole just above the bend, (I bet your machine already
has a hole) and the air intake has an adjustable collar to allow the engine
to pull its intake air from the exhaust manifold stove/shroud.
I liked a suck fan in the winter as it would melt the snow and dry the deck
of my rig, but I do not bother to seasonally change from a blow fan as I try
not to work in severe cold. I like a blow fan for cool weather as I have a
hook on the front of my rad which is used to hang my welding helmet which
keeps it warm and prevents it from frosting up from my breath. Front hooks
also work well for drying gloves.
A blow fan can be problematic it you have oil leaks as it will cause the rad
to be coated with oil and dust and this will require maintenance cleaning to
preventing overheating. A suck fan will just blow this oil all over the
generator and the side doors.
Most generator cooling fans pull air from the rear of the generator and
exhaust it from the engine end, a blow fan will help to pull this warm air
over the engine and out of the housing.
Good luck, YMMV
Eregon
dnbejlYSqwLXVn...@giganews.com:
> Yes. You are right. I have a stomach bug and am not thinking well at
> all. Sorry. I just used up my one "dumb answer of the month" coupon.
Don't sweat it, Iggy - you can use mine.
I've got a large stockpile of them. <evil grin>
--
I used to be an anarchist but had to give it up: _far_ too many rules.
RAMł
news:5gvg24tqmvms40elk...@4ax.com:
> The fan doesnt perform any additional cooling of engine bits and
> components in a "in from the fan and over the engine" configuration?
Did a VW or a Corvair have a fan?
I thought not. <G>
SteveB
"RAMł" <s31924...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9A9C93D259567...@208.49.80.60...
IIRC, the Corvair had an enclosed fan with a belt that was early serpentine
in nature. It ran in both vertical and horizontal directions. You could
see the fan through a hole in the top of the engine. VeeDubs, no.
Steve
SteveB
"Private" <ple...@dont.bother> wrote in message
news:zk0Wj.133787$rd2.52031@pd7urf3no...
My SA 200 is minus the two side panels. The manual says to be sure they are
closed, as this is important for optimum engine performance and life.
Page 3 of manual: Operate the welder with the doors closed. Leaving the
doors open changes the designed air flow and can cause overheating.
Hmmm. May have to make some doors. I've seen them with and without doors.
Steve
Up North
"SteveB" <toquerville,utah@zionvistas> wrote in message
http://members.aol.com/darryld/40-hp-vw.gif
Steve
Up North
"SteveB" <toquerville,utah@zionvistas> wrote in message
the hood side panels were missing. It was mounted inside a van trailer and
the side panels were removed because you couldn't access the engine with
them in place. The problem occured when the temp was over 90F.
Steve
SteveB
"Up North" <BR...@canospam.com> wrote in message
news:g0a7u...@enews2.newsguy.com...
Oh, yeah. Now I remember the VW fan inside that cover in the back of the
engine. A fan on an air cooled engine. Sounds like overkill to me, but
those VW engines ran and ran and ran. You could soup them up pretty good,
too.
Steve
Private
""SteveB" <toquerville,utah@zionvistas> wrote in message
snip
> My SA 200 is minus the two side panels. The manual says to be sure they
> are closed, as this is important for optimum engine performance and life.
>
> Page 3 of manual: Operate the welder with the doors closed. Leaving the
> doors open changes the designed air flow and can cause overheating.
>
> Hmmm. May have to make some doors. I've seen them with and without
> doors.
>
> Steve
I must admit to some skepticism, but I would (almost) always accept the
manufacturer's operating manual as the best authority. My rig has run for
years with only one door in the summer, (it makes it easier to service the
engine). I do often use both doors in the winter, never any problems with
overheating. The doors are a great place for signage.
Buying new doors could cost more than you paid for the whole welder, I
suggest you contact the previous owner as he may still have them or know
where to look for some. Check at the local welder dealers first. A WTB
post here or on EBay or Craig'slist may help?
Good luck, YMMV
Private
"Up North" <som...@someware.net> wrote in message
news:g0aeo...@enews2.newsguy.com...
snip
> I saw a Cat generator with a 3306 that would overheat the generator
> because the hood side panels were missing. It was mounted inside a van
> trailer and the side panels were removed because you couldn't access the
> engine with them in place. The problem occured when the temp was over 90F.
> Steve
Did this unit overheat the engine or the generator with the side panels
removed?
Up North
"Private" <ple...@dont.bother> wrote in message
SteveB
"Private" <ple...@dont.bother> wrote in message
Contacted the owner right after I got it, and he said, "Doors? What doors?"
But then, he had trouble finding his way back from his garage to his house
after our talk. 86, and onsetting blindness and Alzheimers. What a
combination!
I've seen them for sale at ridiculous prices, and I'd just have some sheared
and bent before I would pay what someone wants. I have a good fabricator in
Vegas that could do it. However, on the passenger side of the engine with
the work table, the panel would have to be creative to work and get past the
table.
Will try Craigslist. They are remarkable some times, and a total dud at
others.
Steve
RAMł
news:h7jmf5-...@news.infowest.com:
> IIRC, the Corvair had an enclosed fan with a belt that was early
> serpentine in nature. It ran in both vertical and horizontal
> directions. You could see the fan through a hole in the top of the
> engine. VeeDubs, no.
'Sfunny - I don't remember either a belt or a fan on my '65 'Vair.
IIRC, The 160 HP turbocharged Corsas had one but not either the 85 hp (like
mine) or the 140hp.
SteveB
A friend of mine had a Corsa. Maybe that's why I recall a belt on there.
Am I right, though, that you could see vanes through a round hole on the top
of the engine? And I thought the Corsa was 180 hp. Will Google now that I
have to double check some dead brain cells. That was a long time ago
................
Steve
Bruce in Bangkok
Apparently no appreciable addition as CAT lists both a "pusher" and a
"puller" fan for most of their engines. Remember that from the
engine's point of view the outside of the block is relatively cool.
And, as you aren't exactly thundering down the road with a D-9 ram air
is not a factor.
Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
Of course they do/did. Just like a Briggs & Straton or any other air
cooled engine (excepting some motorcycles).
Jim Elbrecht
<toquerville,utah@zionvistas> wrote:
>
>"RAMł" <s31924...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>news:Xns9A9CC27881DC3...@208.49.80.60...
>> "SteveB" <toquerville,utah@zionvistas> wrote in
>> news:h7jmf5-...@news.infowest.com:
>>
>>> IIRC, the Corvair had an enclosed fan with a belt that was early
>>> serpentine in nature. It ran in both vertical and horizontal
>>> directions. You could see the fan through a hole in the top of the
>>> engine. VeeDubs, no.
-snip-
>
>A friend of mine had a Corsa. Maybe that's why I recall a belt on there.
>Am I right, though, that you could see vanes through a round hole on the top
>of the engine? And I thought the Corsa was 180 hp. Will Google now that I
>have to double check some dead brain cells. That was a long time ago
Here's one-
http://picasaweb.google.com/1966Corsa180/1966ChevroletCorvairCorsa180TurboCoupe/photo#5111626998949656690
-- Loved mine. 1965 black with white ragtop. Only had it for a
couple years- 71-2.
Jim
BobH
They all had the fan. The belt came off the crankshaft and one side bent
90 degrees over the generator pulley and the other side over an idler
pulley and then it was horizontal to drive the top of the fan. I think
that the '66 had an alternator. The fan was mostly under a shroud on the
top of the engine, between the carbs.
I had a '61, '62 and '66. The '66 was a 110 HP four speed. I don't
remember what the horsepower on the '61 and 62 were, but 85 sounds
right. I bought the '62 with a broken crank for the price of the (new)
battery that was in it. I bought the 61 wrecked. The 62 had a two speed
automatic transmission in it and I swapped out the 4 speed, clutch and
shift linkage from the the 61 and rebuilt the motor.
It was a good learning experience for a 16 year old kid. I learned a lot
about fixing stuff correctly or you get to walk from those cars.
A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
BobH
SteveB
"Jim Elbrecht" <elbr...@email.com> wrote in message
news:0qrh24daofip5ev8l...@4ax.com...
Is that a fan I see ................. ?
Steve
SteveB
"BobH" <WanderingMetal...@yahoo.com> wrote
> A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
> BobH
Another friend had a yellow Spyder. It was cool. He was the kind of guy
who would wash it for fun.
Steve
Gunner
wrote:
>Gunner <gun...@NOSPAM.lightspeed.net> wrote in
Actually..yes to both. Very much so.
Gunner
Gunner
VDubs..yes indeed.
Gunner
Balders
Aircooled VW certainly did have fans & a thermostat to boot. The thermo
controls the internal ducting flaps in the fan housing
Back to Steve's post. Some modern cars have a blower fan on the exterior
face of the rad, two off the top of my head are BMW & Mercades (SP) Vito
vans.
I can't actually help other than that, sorry
*goes back to lurking*
Jim Elbrecht
>
>"Jim Elbrecht" <elbr...@email.com> wrote in message
-snip-
>>
>> Here's one-
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/1966Corsa180/1966ChevroletCorvairCorsa180TurboCoupe/photo#5111626998949656690
>> -- Loved mine. 1965 black with white ragtop. Only had it for a
>> couple years- 71-2.
>>
>> Jim
>
>Is that a fan I see ................. ?
Yeah it is-- right where you remember it.
[and I don't know if that is a true serpentine belt-- but it sure took
some turns- and was a 'joy' to replace.]
Jim
RAMł
news:d2454$4828f9ad$8c631746$27...@news.deru.net:
> They all had the fan. The belt came off the crankshaft and one side
> bent 90 degrees over the generator pulley and the other side over an
> idler pulley and then it was horizontal to drive the top of the fan. I
> think that the '66 had an alternator. The fan was mostly under a
> shroud on the top of the engine, between the carbs.
>
> I had a '61, '62 and '66. The '66 was a 110 HP four speed. I don't
> remember what the horsepower on the '61 and 62 were, but 85 sounds
> right. I bought the '62 with a broken crank for the price of the (new)
> battery that was in it. I bought the 61 wrecked. The 62 had a two
> speed automatic transmission in it and I swapped out the 4 speed,
> clutch and shift linkage from the the 61 and rebuilt the motor.
>
> It was a good learning experience for a 16 year old kid. I learned a
> lot about fixing stuff correctly or you get to walk from those cars.
>
> A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
> BobH
Well, I can see that I didn't remember correctly. <grin>
My '65 4-door hard-top was, essentially, a bottom-of-the-line with the
lowest-powered engine, vinyl seats, 3-on-the-tree, _no_ A/C or other
goodies except a radio and heater.
Except for a failed oil-pressure sending unit [it sent oil spurting all
over the engine compartment], the only _real_ problem I had with it was
the throw-out bearing.
It would grind out its seat and, if it weren't for the synchronizer, I'd
have had even more difficulty shifting.
While all of the '65s had the same basic 164 cid engine size, that year
the Corsa engine was 164 hp. and lesser-powered engines of 140, 110, and
85 hp. were offered.
Other than the bearing seat problem - the reason that I finally sold it
in late '69 - it was a great car and, looking at old photos of mine,
would be considered stylish today.
DAMN RALPH NADER!!!!!
RAMł
news:v02nf5-...@news.infowest.com:
> I've seen them for sale at ridiculous prices, and I'd just have some
> sheared and bent before I would pay what someone wants. I have a good
> fabricator in Vegas that could do it. However, on the passenger side
> of the engine with the work table, the panel would have to be creative
> to work and get past the table.
>
Would sliding flat panels work?
Maxwell
"BobH" <WanderingMetal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d2454$4828f9ad$8c631746$27...@news.deru.net...
>>
>
> They all had the fan. The belt came off the crankshaft and one side bent
> 90 degrees over the generator pulley and the other side over an idler
> pulley and then it was horizontal to drive the top of the fan. I think
> that the '66 had an alternator. The fan was mostly under a shroud on the
> top of the engine, between the carbs.
>
> I had a '61, '62 and '66. The '66 was a 110 HP four speed. I don't
> remember what the horsepower on the '61 and 62 were, but 85 sounds right.
> I bought the '62 with a broken crank for the price of the (new) battery
> that was in it. I bought the 61 wrecked. The 62 had a two speed automatic
> transmission in it and I swapped out the 4 speed, clutch and shift linkage
> from the the 61 and rebuilt the motor.
>
> It was a good learning experience for a 16 year old kid. I learned a lot
> about fixing stuff correctly or you get to walk from those cars.
>
> A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
Two things I remember most about the Corvairs.
They a blast to drive, handled like a go-cart.
The engines could fall completely out.
My mom and I were headed for a doctors appointment one morning when we came
upon a complete Corvair engine, sitting upright in the middle of the outside
lane of a four lane city road. No car in site. But as we crested a small
hill and dropped down to a traffic light at the next intersection, here sat
a Corvair with is ass clearly 10" too high, and a very well dressed lady
acting like she had no clue why her car wouldn't start. Looked like a Candid
Camera skit. We though she was going to faint when we told her the engine
was two blocks back.
I hear it happens occasionally to V-dubs too.
RoyJ
4 speed (!!!!!!). Driver examiner was a sadistic character that had her
parallel park ON A HILL. She managed to lock the thing in reverse,
couldn't shift it, had to call her father to come pick up the examiner
and later come back to deal with the tranny. She failed the driver test.
SteveB
Yeah, I just took a quick look upon pulling up in the driveway tonight after
a quick trip to Vegas today and back. Plus, you have to arrange the air
filter because there is a piece of that sticking out that would affect a
panel fitting there. I'd probably just put them on pins and lift them out.
Use the hood pin type of arrangement on top.
Steve
Bob F
"SteveB" <toquerville,utah@zionvistas> wrote in message
Except the #4 cylinder (IIRC) that heated enough to burn the exhaust valve
frequently.
Air cooled engines won't cool without air.
Balders
> Except the #4 cylinder (IIRC) that heated enough to burn the exhaust valve
> frequently.
>
> Air cooled engines won't cool without air.
It's #3 that burns out sometimes. The Ign is retarded slightly on this
cylinder to improve matters.
Front of car
3 1
4 2
Back of car
My daily hack's a '75 Bug. My Van ('78 Bay window) is now powered by Subaru
:D
Bob F
"Balders" <steve....@baesystemsNOspam.com> wrote in message
news:117azo5qut27k$.dnwolzhkdjya.dlg@40tude.net...
I stand corrected. It's been many years.
john jacob
then into the radiator. This is done on a tractor to keep the hot air
off of the operator.
John