Miller Trailblazer 55G update...sob....
Gunner
welder a bit ago.
Its gota Continental F-163 4 cylinder engine in it.
I picked it up today, and took it to my shop, and started to putter
with it.
I pulled the plugs, sprayed PBlaster down the cylinders, and checked
the oil, looked good, the gas tank has about 1/4" of something that
was once gasoline..have to drain that, water isnt visible in radiator,
but could see where it splashed in the neck from hoisting and moving
the welder.
No battery, so after letting the Blaster work its magic for an hour, I
put a wrench on the nut on the end of the crank pully and tried to
turn it over. Nope.
Tried harder....nope
Stood on the wrench carefuly...nope
Bounced on the wrench...nope...
Shit...damned thing wont turn.
I may have flushed $600 right down the toilet.
Plugs looked ok, with a very fine patina of rust..almost not visible
I filled the cylinders with Pblaster and laid a rag over the open
holes. Tommorow Ill try it again.
What are the other options and possiblities? Generator bearings
frozen?
How would you check without splitting the engine off the genny? Not a
fun task from the looks of it...?
Magnito/governor frozen? Waterpump frozen?
There is a thingy that has a linkage from the carby and is bolted to
the side of the engine with a chaincase I think..one assumes thats the
magnito/governor?
There is about 2300 hours total on this welder best reckoning...I may
have been well and truely fucked..though the seller did promise to
give me my $600 back if it didnt work. He seems honest enough...shrug
Id like to give it the old college try though before going back hat in
hand and pleading my case
As it turns out..the seller never ran it either..though the ad
(written by his son) said it had been in storage for 2 yrs..implying
it was running when put in storage. He got it from someone else who
bailed out of his shop, ahead of the bill collectors, leaving most of
his stuff behind, along with his wife and kids....
Claimed it had 851 hours on the Hobbs meter..true enough..but the "old
meter 1550" scratched into the paint never showed up in the
pictures....
All that besides the point..
Any suggestions what to do next..visa vis diagnosing or getting this
thing to turn over?
Ill pull the starter to see if its hung, but getting to the water pump
etc etc is gonna be a real pain in the ass.
HELP!!!!
Gunner
Gunner
As far as I can tell..this is the most common engine in the Lincoln
SA200 as well
Gunner
Grant Erwin
That thing doesn't have a pin you shove in to lock it at TDC, does it? If it
did, is it shoved in?
Happened to me once on a British motorcycle ..
Grant
Don Young
"Gunner" <gun...@NOSPAM.lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:giim545fmrjankiau...@4ax.com...
fan belt. If seized, they can prevent the motor from turning if you have a
good tight belt. You can put a lot of torque on the crankshaft in both
directions by removing the starter and prying against the ring gear. Of
course you can also break a tooth off the gear. There are a lot of possible
seizure areas. I have a Farmall Cub tractor which was seized from rust in
the timing gears, but that is very unusual and I doubt that the governor or
magneto would be seized. I would put the probabilities as piston(s) first,
valve(s) second, main or rod bearing(s) third, and generator bearing(s)
fourth. If stuck valves is the problem the engine would likely back up some
before stopping again. If so, do not try to force the valve(s) very much.
Lubrication through the spark plug holes and valve side cover along with
patience can prevent a lot of damage, such as a broken camshaft. If there is
a removeable end cap, you could check the condition of the generator
bearing. Good Luck!!
Don Young
Gunner
wrote:
I suspect..that its piston #1..and dont know why, but it seems to have
more crud and rust than the other 3, based on a bright light and a
mirror inspection. Maybe a head gasket?
Gunner
Pete C.
Perhaps just open exhaust valve and rain getting in while it sat?
SteveB
> Gunner wrote:
>> >> I may have flushed $600 right down the toilet.
I think I may have paid too much for mine, too. But it came with a full
cutting set, welding tips, tools, rods, a trailer, a tool box, a vise, and
lots of goodies. I gave $300. I'm into it now for a total of just under a
grand. I saw one the other day for sale locally for $1700.
The old boy I got my SA 200 from said it had sat for three or four years.
Luckily, the engine turned. Point is, these are very tough engines, and
unless it seized, it should come unstuck. IIRC, you said he said it was
running when he put it up. Maybe you could get by with just pulling the
head. Still, disconnect the belts, then try the big socket thing after
soaking with Kroil or PB Blaster. Let us know if you ever find out what the
problem was.
Steve
Grant Erwin
I once worked on a Packard from the early '50s that had sat in a field for
awhile. The engine didn't turn over, so we pulled the head (straight eight).
We soaked all the pistons in penetrating oil for awhile, then took a piece
of wood and a hammer and, using the wood as a drift, tapped on each piston
in turn. After awhile, it broke loose. Then we put the head back on, used
a bunch of starting fluid, and fired it up. It ran at that point, at least
long enough to get it back to town to the rebuilders.
Can't quite believe you can't get it to turn over, Gunner. I think you just
gotta want it a little badder.
Grant
Ignoramus12603
or D40 for cheap and try to fix it, kind of like I did with the
compressor. Would be a very fun project.
But no luck so far. A lot of sellers of such things lie a lot, like
"you just need a $7 carburetor part from autozone". and say "it is
like new but does not run: Yeah right.
i
Grant Erwin
Or they say "ran perfect when put into storage XX months ago" and then you
get there and the thing is missing the carburetor, alternator, starter &
battery. Arghhh ...
To me cheap is cheap, like $100 or less. People selling a broken gas-powered
welder from the 1970s for $600 are dreaming, and wasting people's time.
Grant
SteveB
"Grant Erwin" <gr...@NOSPAMkirkland.net> wrote in message
news:CLe7k.104$7g.71@trndny05...
Looked at some antique Lincoln with an Onan motor on it. This thing was
OLD, or at least it looked it. He wanted $1400, and I was thinking of $200.
Some people.
Steve
Ignoramus12603
> Ignoramus12603 wrote:
>> I would really like to buy something like this non-running Trailblazer
>> or D40 for cheap and try to fix it, kind of like I did with the
>> compressor. Would be a very fun project.
>>
>> But no luck so far. A lot of sellers of such things lie a lot, like
>> "you just need a $7 carburetor part from autozone". and say "it is
>> like new but does not run: Yeah right.
>>
>> i
>
> Or they say "ran perfect when put into storage XX months ago" and then you
> get there and the thing is missing the carburetor, alternator, starter &
> battery. Arghhh ...
Yep.
> To me cheap is cheap, like $100 or less. People selling a broken gas-powered
> welder from the 1970s for $600 are dreaming, and wasting people's time.
Absolutely. Wasting their own time also.
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Ignoramus12603
And they think that they are sitting on a pile of gold.
SteveB
"Ignoramus12603" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.12603.invalid> wrote in message
news:1LmdnTvZS4uNNMDV...@giganews.com...
> On 2008-06-22, SteveB <toquerville@zionvistas> wrote:
>>
>> "Grant Erwin" <gr...@NOSPAMkirkland.net> wrote in message
>> news:CLe7k.104$7g.71@trndny05...
>>> Ignoramus12603 wrote:
>>>> I would really like to buy something like this non-running Trailblazer
>>>> or D40 for cheap and try to fix it, kind of like I did with the
>>>> compressor. Would be a very fun project. But no luck so far. A lot of
>>>> sellers of such things lie a lot, like
>>>> "you just need a $7 carburetor part from autozone". and say "it is
>>>> like new but does not run: Yeah right.
>>>>
>>>> i
>>>
>>> Or they say "ran perfect when put into storage XX months ago" and then
>>> you
>>> get there and the thing is missing the carburetor, alternator, starter &
>>> battery. Arghhh ...
>>>
>>> To me cheap is cheap, like $100 or less. People selling a broken
>>> gas-powered
>>> welder from the 1970s for $600 are dreaming, and wasting people's time.
>>>
>>> Grant
>>
>> Looked at some antique Lincoln with an Onan motor on it. This thing was
>> OLD, or at least it looked it. He wanted $1400, and I was thinking of
>> $200.
>> Some people.
>>
>
> And they think that they are sitting on a pile of gold.
>
And I do the nastiest meanest thing I can. I take my money and walk, and
don't give them a clue that they are clueless. Had they been reasonable at
all, they might have made a sale. I may have bought a lemon or a jewel.
Steve
Steve
Doug
> SteveB wrote:
>>>Gunner wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>>I may have flushed $600 right down the toilet.
>>
>>
>> I think I may have paid too much for mine, too. But it came with a full
>> cutting set, welding tips, tools, rods, a trailer, a tool box, a vise,
>> and
>> lots of goodies. I gave $300. I'm into it now for a total of just under
>> a
>> grand. I saw one the other day for sale locally for $1700.
>>
>> The old boy I got my SA 200 from said it had sat for three or four years.
>> Luckily, the engine turned. Point is, these are very tough engines, and
>> unless it seized, it should come unstuck. IIRC, you said he said it was
>> running when he put it up. Maybe you could get by with just pulling the
>> head. Still, disconnect the belts, then try the big socket thing after
>> soaking with Kroil or PB Blaster. Let us know if you ever find out what
>> the problem was.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
I've used PB Blaster to free more than one old engine. If after a few days
of soaking it still won't turn I would pull the head. My experience with
these small tractor type motors is that they either set up from cylinder
wall rust or because water ran down into the exhaust system and rusted a
valve in place.
Rob Fraser
Gunner,
If you suspect #1 pull the head, heat it with a propane torch crank the
fuck out of it as taking the genny off is a veritable nightmare. It may be
#1 was indeed open to mother nature. If you can drop the pan, drop all the
rod bolts and heat and beat accordingly. budget troubleshooting......
Rob
Gunner Asch
If I pull the head..do I have to replace the head gaskets?
Frankly..Im surprisingly inexperinced in engine repair. Whiile my
childhood friends were rebuilding and dabbling with cars..I was doing
radio, guns and their girlfriends....shrug
Ive only rebuilt one engine in my lifetime...and had parts left over.
I sold it not long after...Well..I have done motorcycle engines
sucessfully here and there over the years....mostly Hondas, and helped
rebuild a few, passing tools to the experts
This engine seems simple enough, so Ill put the welder up on 6x6 beams
and pull the pan, if it doesnt start to turn when I go back, tommorow
or the next day. This is pretty much a lawn mower engine with 4
cylinders rather than one..."L head"?
Ive always said that Id rather take a beating than work on an
engine..shrug....now Im older..and I dont heal as well..so I guess its
time to dig in and learn.....
Thanks Rob, and everyone else. Ill post any updates
Gunner, headed back out to put up more fencing before it gets too hot.
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
co_f...@yahoo.com
MY personal experience with generators is when water gets into the
generator itself, rust builds up between the armature and the field
pieces and locks it tight. Gunner, be sure to examine this possibility
as well.
My worst stuck was a generator using a 2 cylinder Lycoming aircraft
engine. Valves are in the one piece cylinder/head. One exhaust valve
was stuck. Never did get it it free. Gave away the generator.
Paul
Gunner Asch
>>
>> Ive always said that Id rather take a beating than work on an
>> engine..shrug....now Im older..and I dont heal as well..so I guess its
>> time to dig in and learn.....
>>
>> Thanks Rob, and everyone else. Ill post any updates
>>
>> Gunner, headed back out to put up more fencing before it gets too hot.
>>
>> Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
>> illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
>> unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
>> proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
>
>MY personal experience with generators is when water gets into the
>generator itself, rust builds up between the armature and the field
>pieces and locks it tight. Gunner, be sure to examine this possibility
>as well.
>
>My worst stuck was a generator using a 2 cylinder Lycoming aircraft
>engine. Valves are in the one piece cylinder/head. One exhaust valve
>was stuck. Never did get it it free. Gave away the generator.
The machine itself looks clean, remarkably free of oil spew, with just
the right amount of cobwebs, old oil in the proper places under the
hood, and only a tiny amount of storage rust on the machine anywhere.
Paint is faded, looks to have been on a truck or trailer for most of
its life. Wireing looks very good, nothing sagging, cable tied
properly in the harnesses and so forth.
It has a couple stickers from a construction/industrial company that I
believe is long out of business on the outside...shrug...the general
good condition, abilt faded paint etc is what caught my eye. It wasnt
a hammered piece of shit in the slightest.
Genny looks good, with just the right amount of dust and no rust
noted.
Shrug...looks to be in pretty good shape for a 20 yr old welder, and
one assumes that 2300 hours isnt all that much for this type of
machine?
I pulled the cover off the side, that covers the valves, no
sludge/nasty stuff, and lifted the valves one at a time, all seem to
be free, and the cam followers (?) all turned nicely, with evenly
polished sides.
Shrug
Im giving it the old college try though..hope to learn something.
Thanks
Gunner
Gunner Asch
The fine folks at http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/ also offer free
Continental L head manuals online:
http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/partc/con_engines/L-Head_Overhaul.pdf
http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/partc/con_engines/L-Head_Quick_Reference.pdf
Gunner
Martin H. Eastburn
(old class - where the frame was a large truck frame and the wheels were
semi-class wheels.)
One summer he came down from North Dakota - he was re-designing and installing
a massive Radar up there... - the generator was frozen.
He put in head cylinder oil through the spark plugs and put the plugs back in.
He drove the 'truck' 2500 miles and we went to the local Semi tractor service
center that was in town. We got a massive box wrench - the generator had
a hex shaft out one end and the generator on the other...
We put it on and rocked it slowly CW-CCW and then it rotated freely.
Took off the wrench and pressed the start button. It ran for years
when asked to run after the fix. He kept the big wrench in the cargo bay
under the chassis with the truck chains but never needed it.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/
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Maxwell
"Gunner Asch" <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:u7pv54hd8lp8jtek7...@4ax.com...
>
>
> If I pull the head..do I have to replace the head gaskets?
>
> Frankly..Im surprisingly inexperinced in engine repair. Whiile my
> childhood friends were rebuilding and dabbling with cars..I was doing
> radio, guns and their girlfriends....shrug
>
> Ive only rebuilt one engine in my lifetime...and had parts left over.
> I sold it not long after...Well..I have done motorcycle engines
> sucessfully here and there over the years....mostly Hondas, and helped
> rebuild a few, passing tools to the experts
>
>
> This engine seems simple enough, so Ill put the welder up on 6x6 beams
> and pull the pan, if it doesnt start to turn when I go back, tommorow
> or the next day. This is pretty much a lawn mower engine with 4
> cylinders rather than one..."L head"?
>
> Ive always said that Id rather take a beating than work on an
> engine..shrug....now Im older..and I dont heal as well..so I guess its
> time to dig in and learn.....
>
If/when you get to that point, removing and replacing the head is very basic
on the Continental. If nothing else, I noticed a real difference in power
and idle recently after replacing a leaking head gasket on my Continental
powered forklift. I removed a ton of carbon with a cordless drill and rotary
brushes. All things considered, I was glad it began to leak. Just took a few
hours.
You would need a gasket. Got mine from NAPA. I'd recommend a can of K&W
Copper Coat spray as well.